And the Pendulum Swings.......

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 25, 2016 6:39 PM GMT
    I was just thinking about Africa and how Christians in this country go over there and secretly encourage governments to torture and kill gay people. And it occurred to me that the only thing keeping them from doing it here is our current president. I predict if Trump is elected president, these same Christians (and Muslims) will put pressure on the new Conservative government to not only repeal anti-discrimination laws currently on the books, but also create new laws that actually criminalize homosexuality. Don't think it's possible? Then you don't know history very well.
  • Destinharbor

    Posts: 4435

    Jul 25, 2016 6:46 PM GMT
    Absolutely possible. And how many silly gays will whine about Hillary and not vote or vote for someone else? Not to mention what a Trump Presidency would do to the Supreme court. I shudder to think what damage could happen for decades. And we just assume everything slowly moves towards liberal society and that long-term trends cannot be reversed. Frightening.
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    Jul 25, 2016 8:49 PM GMT
    Could America's Religious Fascists demand Trump to act against gays?
    I think so.
    Read the following article and see what you think.

    http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/donald-trump-christian-leaders-226075
  • Destinharbor

    Posts: 4435

    Jul 25, 2016 9:02 PM GMT
    Hitler's primary political operative was gay and relaxed laws against being gay until Hitler concluded he could gain more power and more completely by turning against the gay community. Trump is capable of that as is the base of the Republican party,especially the religious right spewing their hate. So far they've been able to push Trump way farther Right than he started out. He's already talking of turning the clock back on gay marriage through Supreme Court appointees. He didn't start with that position. And my impression of the more moderate Republicans is they'd allow it to happen, that they have moderated their views but could easily reverse course if whipped into a frenzy which is the modus operandi of the Republicans.
  • tazzari

    Posts: 2937

    Jul 25, 2016 9:51 PM GMT
    TimTheThird saidCould America's Religious Fascists demand Trump to act against gays?
    I think so.
    Read the following article and see what you think.

    http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/donald-trump-christian-leaders-226075


    On the other hand, NOT electing Trump, and voting in as many progressive candidates as possible, could put the christian right in the back of the bus for a long time to come. It's vital folks: vote Hillary: any other vote risks giving the election to the haters.
  • tazzari

    Posts: 2937

    Jul 25, 2016 11:27 PM GMT
    "Hitler's primary political operative was gay and relaxed laws against being gay until Hitler concluded he could gain more power and more completely by turning against the gay community. "

    I'd agree with the rest of your post, but Hitler's primary goal was to destroy the growing power of the SA - that homosexuals were involved was perhaps a side benefit nd made it all look better, but it as just another way to grab all power. and Roehm wa far too influential.
  • ANTiSociaLiNJ...

    Posts: 1160

    Jul 25, 2016 11:32 PM GMT
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  • Aleco_Graves

    Posts: 708

    Jul 25, 2016 11:45 PM GMT
    Living in africa... Im out, and my heads not on the block yet. Im not familiar with these stories of visitors encouraging other countries
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 25, 2016 11:59 PM GMT
    Aleco_Graves saidLiving in africa... Im out, and my heads not on the block yet. Im not familiar with these stories of visitors encouraging other countries



    This should keep you busy for a while:

    [url]https://www.thenation.com/article/its-not-just-uganda-behind-christian-rights-onslaught-africa/
    [/url]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/how-uganda-was-seduced-by-anti-gay-conservative-evangelicals-9193593.html
    http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-kaoma-uganda-gays-american-ministers-20140323-story.html
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uganda_Anti-Homosexuality_Act,_2014
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 26, 2016 6:50 AM GMT
    Radd saidI was just thinking about Africa and how Christians in this country go over there and secretly encourage governments to torture and kill gay people. And it occurred to me that the only thing keeping them from doing it here is our current president. I predict if Trump is elected president, these same Christians (and Muslims) will put pressure on the new Conservative government to not only repeal anti-discrimination laws currently on the books, but also create new laws that actually criminalize homosexuality. Don't think it's possible? Then you don't know history very well.






    If Hillary becomes our next president, hopefully the pendulum ceases to exist after this election. The only thing I ever agreed with GW Bush is what he just said, he is probably correct, he would be the last republican president. So in a sense, this election is THE election of all elections. The only thing that the republican party could ever win again by voter turn out would be members of the legislative branch, congress. Right now, they control both the Senate and House and are widely known as the congress of NO and Obstructionism, only for the fact they hate the democrat in the white house.

    Its dangerous for republicans to continue to play this game if they want to even stay relevant into the future. American people WILL grow tired of their congressional Obstructionism against all future democratic presidents, including Hillary. The people will just eventually vote them out, and keep them out. No longer able to be electable, the GOP officially dies. The extreme right wing form their own party and or go underground (Knights Templar, much like they did when the crusade war ended after the fall of Rome). The known 'moderates' of the old GOP party, will then join with moderates of the left, Democrat party. We could also see an extreme left wing party develop (like Bernie supporters but more extreme) after the combined forces of the right and left moderates.

    George W. Bush fears he’ll be the last Republican president because Trump is tearing apart the GOP
    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/george-w-bush-fears-republican-president-article-1.2717203

    Ruth Bader Ginsburg may leave US if Trump wins
    http://nypost.com/2016/07/11/even-ruth-bader-ginsburg-weighs-fleeing-us-if-trump-wins/


    Of course if the right wing and Trump win this election, it will change America's entire direction to the extreme right of biblical proportions and 'moderates' will end up being the minority in both parties. Anarchy and dictatorship will emerge as the moderates get forced into submission. They change the current US constitution to that of theocracy. America becomes a horrible place to live, work under Christian law and moderates are forced out if they "don't convert". The now more moderate Pope would be replaced with a more sinister one much like the current Pope replaced. NWO? yep? Illuminati? yep

    THIS IS THE PIVOT POINT in Americas history, (that is why we are all here to witness the direction and decide what "the people" do afterwards), if the right wing manages to get power come Nov, it will be extremely difficult to swing that pendulum back the other direction for many years to come, including SCOTUS. I am afraid this is it, this election REALLY DOES decide Americas direction, not only Americas direction, but the direction people take on both sides.

    If the extreme right wing wins, there will be an exodus of left-ers and moderates, and a influx of more right wing-ers.
    If the left wing wins, there will be major shifts of left-ers, right-ers and moderates, a exodus of the right wing-ers and influx of left-ers

    So, who loves this country more in order to control it? Its like having your bags packed waiting on the "call to evacuate" icon_idea.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 26, 2016 3:53 PM GMT
    And there it is! The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth! icon_eek.gif



    A Republican intellectual explains why the Republican Party is going to die
    http://www.vox.com/2016/7/25/12256510/republican-party-trump-avik-roy


    Avik Roy is a Republican’s Republican. A health care wonk and editor at Forbes, he has worked for three Republican presidential hopefuls — Mitt Romney, Rick Perry, and Marco Rubio. Much of his adult life has been dedicated to advancing the Republican Party and conservative ideals.

    But when I caught up with Roy at a bar just outside the Republican convention, he said something I’ve never heard from an establishment conservative before: The Grand Old Party is going to die.

    “I don’t think the Republican Party and the conservative movement are capable of reforming themselves in an incremental and gradual way,” he said. “There’s going to be a disruption.”

    Roy isn’t happy about this: He believes it means the Democrats will dominate national American politics for some time. But he also believes the Republican Party has lost its right to govern, because it is driven by white nationalism rather than a true commitment to equality for all Americans.

    “Until the conservative movement can stand up and live by that principle, it will not have the moral authority to lead the country,” he told me.

    This is a standard assessment among liberals, but it is frankly shocking to hear from a prominent conservative thinker. Our conversation had the air of a confessional: of Roy admitting that he and his intellectual comrades had gone wrong, had failed, had sinned.

    In 1955, William F. Buckley created the intellectual architecture of modern conservatism by founding National Review, focusing on a free market, social conservatism, and a muscular foreign policy. Buckley’s ideals found purchase in the Republican Party in 1964, with the nomination of Barry Goldwater. While Goldwater lost the 1964 general election, his ideas eventually won out in the GOP, culminating in the Reagan Revolution of 1980.

    Normally, Goldwater’s defeat is spun as a story of triumph: how the conservative movement eventually righted the ship of an unprincipled GOP. But according to Roy, it’s the first act of a tragedy.

    “Goldwater’s nomination in 1964 was a historical disaster for the conservative movement,” Roy tells me, “because for the ensuing decades, it identified Democrats as the party of civil rights and Republicans as the party opposed to civil rights.”

    Goldwater opposed the Civil Rights Act of 1964. He himself was not especially racist — he believed it was wrong, on free market grounds, for the federal government to force private businesses to desegregate. But this “principled” stance identified the GOP with the pro-segregation camp in everyone’s eyes, while the Democrats under Lyndon Johnson became the champions of anti-racism.

    This had a double effect, Roy says. First, it forced black voters out of the GOP. Second, it invited in white racists who had previously been Democrats. Even though many Republicans voted for the Civil Rights Act in Congress, the post-Goldwater party became the party of aggrieved whites.

    “The fact is, today, the Republican coalition has inherited the people who opposed the Civil Rights Act of 1964 — the Southern Democrats who are now Republicans,” Roy says. “Conservatives and Republicans have not come to terms with that problem.”

    The available evidence compiled by historians and political scientists suggests that 1964 really was a pivotal political moment, in exactly the way Roy describes.

    Yet Republican intellectuals have long denied this, fabricating a revisionist history in which Republicans were and always have been the party of civil rights. In 2012, National Review ran a lengthy cover story arguing that the standard history recounted by Roy was “popular but indefensible.”

    This revisionism, according to Roy, points to a much bigger conservative delusion: They cannot admit that their party’s voters are motivated far more by white identity politics than by conservative ideals.

    So they deny the party’s racist history, that its post-1964 success was a direct result of attracting whites disillusioned by the Democrats’ embrace of civil rights. And they deny that to this day, Republican voters are driven more by white resentment than by a principled commitment to the free market and individual liberty.

    “It’s the power of wishful thinking. None of us want to accept that opposition to civil rights is the legacy that we’ve inherited,” Roy says.

    He expands on this idea: “It’s a common observation on the left, but it’s an observation that a lot of us on the right genuinely believed wasn’t true — which is that conservatism has become, and has been for some time, much more about white identity politics than it has been about conservative political philosophy. I think today, even now, a lot of conservatives have not come to terms with that problem.”

    This, Roy believes, is where the conservative intellectual class went astray. By refusing to admit the truth about their own party, they were powerless to stop the forces that led to Donald Trump’s rise. They told themselves, over and over again, that Goldwater’s victory was a triumph.

    But in reality, it created the conditions under which Trump could thrive. Trump’s politics of aggrieved white nationalism — labeling black people criminals, Latinos rapists, and Muslims terrorists — succeeded because the party’s voting base was made up of the people who once opposed civil rights.

  • Destinharbor

    Posts: 4435

    Jul 26, 2016 3:58 PM GMT
    tazzari said"Hitler's primary political operative was gay and relaxed laws against being gay until Hitler concluded he could gain more power and more completely by turning against the gay community. "

    I'd agree with the rest of your post, but Hitler's primary goal was to destroy the growing power of the SA - that homosexuals were involved was perhaps a side benefit nd made it all look better, but it as just another way to grab all power. and Roehm wa far too influential.

    True, a bit more detail than I thought necessary, but the point is still the same. When Hitler decided to take out Roehm and the SA, one of his tools was to divide in order to conquer. And gays were an easy way of doing that. Exactly as Trump and the Republicans like to do and I expect he and they would start with us.
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    Jul 26, 2016 6:24 PM GMT
    Destinharbor said
    tazzari said"Hitler's primary political operative was gay and relaxed laws against being gay until Hitler concluded he could gain more power and more completely by turning against the gay community. "

    I'd agree with the rest of your post, but Hitler's primary goal was to destroy the growing power of the SA - that homosexuals were involved was perhaps a side benefit nd made it all look better, but it as just another way to grab all power. and Roehm wa far too influential.

    True, a bit more detail than I thought necessary, but the point is still the same. When Hitler decided to take out Roehm and the SA, one of his tools was to divide in order to conquer. And gays were an easy way of doing that. Exactly as Trump and the Republicans like to do and I expect he and they would start with us.




    While you could tell her emotions, these are the points Elizabeth Warren touched on, who I thought did a great job of bringing to light.



  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 26, 2016 6:26 PM GMT
    Gays are a small part of the population. The other 96% or so of the population have opinions about us.
    We make an easy target.

    We've been a goldmine for the Republicans. How much money have they raised off demonizing us?

    Now Republicans claim they want to protect us from ISIS. They also support "curing" our homosexuality.
    Are they planning to protect the gays by curing us, by getting rid of us?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 26, 2016 6:32 PM GMT
    TimTheThird saidGays are a small part of the population. The other 96% or so of the population have opinions about us.
    We make an easy target.

    We've been a goldmine for the Republicans. How much money have they raised off demonizing us?

    Now Republicans claim they want to protect us from ISIS. They also support "curing" our homosexuality.
    Are they planning to protect the gays by curing us, by getting rid of us?





    If Hillary wins this election, what the republican party wants to "protect us from" will be irrelevant, if republicans do win, we can expect both. But instead of going through that, it would be better if gays exited the country icon_idea.gif
  • FRE0

    Posts: 4865

    Jul 26, 2016 10:15 PM GMT
    Aleco_Graves saidLiving in africa... Im out, and my heads not on the block yet. Im not familiar with these stories of visitors encouraging other countries


    Yes, but you're living in SOUTH Africa. If you were living in most other African countries you would be well aware of what "Christians" from the U.S. are doing in Africa to encourage discrimination and violence against gay men and women.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 27, 2016 12:23 AM GMT
    Aleco_Graves saidLiving in africa... Im out, and my heads not on the block yet. Im not familiar with these stories of visitors encouraging other countries


    You're in South Africa - which doesn't count. He's referring to Uganda, Sudan, Nigeria, Mali, Tanzania, Kenya, and lots of other African countries.

  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14354

    Jul 29, 2016 12:10 AM GMT
    tazzari said
    TimTheThird saidCould America's Religious Fascists demand Trump to act against gays?
    I think so.
    Read the following article and see what you think.

    http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/donald-trump-christian-leaders-226075


    On the other hand, NOT electing Trump, and voting in as many progressive candidates as possible, could put the christian right in the back of the bus for a long time to come. It's vital folks: vote Hillary: any other vote risks giving the election to the haters.
    Yeah right, vote for the most corrupt and most incompetent candidate for President. FYI, Donald Trump is not a narrow minded bible thumping screwball and he is not as anti gay as all your left wing extremists fear. He is not going to give free reign to the religious right if he is elected. If anything he is eventually going to toss all these flaky fundamentalists into the path of a oncoming, high speed train. He is a political outsider who is much more credible and more trustworthy than the hapless Hillary ho. Stop listening to all the ultra leftist fear mongering propaganda.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 29, 2016 1:36 AM GMT
    roadbikeRob said
    tazzari said
    TimTheThird saidCould America's Religious Fascists demand Trump to act against gays?
    I think so.
    Read the following article and see what you think.

    http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/donald-trump-christian-leaders-226075


    On the other hand, NOT electing Trump, and voting in as many progressive candidates as possible, could put the christian right in the back of the bus for a long time to come. It's vital folks: vote Hillary: any other vote risks giving the election to the haters.
    Yeah right, vote for the most corrupt and most incompetent candidate for President. FYI, Donald Trump is not a narrow minded bible thumping screwball and he is not as anti gay as all your left wing extremists fear. He is not going to give free reign to the religious right if he is elected. If anything he is eventually going to toss all these flaky fundamentalists into the path of a oncoming, high speed train. He is a political outsider who is much more credible and more trustworthy than the hapless Hillary ho. Stop listening to all the ultra leftist fear mongering propaganda.



    Please provide facts to your many opinions about Trump you made above. Everything you just said about him goes against everything we know about him.
  • whytehot

    Posts: 1167

    Jul 29, 2016 1:44 AM GMT
    To his point, Trump is the least-republican republican ever. It's like he's pretending to be anti-gay, etc, just to win the primary. He recently said he'll raise minimum wage to $10 because though "it's not very Republican to say it, but you need to help people".... lol who says that?!

    There is zero chance he will shift American any bit towards the right. I'm more worried he'll start world war III
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14354

    Aug 05, 2016 12:26 PM GMT
    Radd said
    roadbikeRob said
    tazzari said
    TimTheThird saidCould America's Religious Fascists demand Trump to act against gays?
    I think so.
    Read the following article and see what you think.

    http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/donald-trump-christian-leaders-226075


    On the other hand, NOT electing Trump, and voting in as many progressive candidates as possible, could put the christian right in the back of the bus for a long time to come. It's vital folks: vote Hillary: any other vote risks giving the election to the haters.
    Yeah right, vote for the most corrupt and most incompetent candidate for President. FYI, Donald Trump is not a narrow minded bible thumping screwball and he is not as anti gay as all your left wing extremists fear. He is not going to give free reign to the religious right if he is elected. If anything he is eventually going to toss all these flaky fundamentalists into the path of a oncoming, high speed train. He is a political outsider who is much more credible and more trustworthy than the hapless Hillary ho. Stop listening to all the ultra leftist fear mongering propaganda.



    Please provide facts to your many opinions about Trump you made above. Everything you just said about him goes against everything we know about him.
    What you know about Trump has been propaganda fed to you by the Hillary supporting corporate media. If you cannot see that than you are blind as a bat.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 06, 2016 2:14 AM GMT
    roadbikeRob said
    Radd said
    roadbikeRob said
    tazzari said
    TimTheThird saidCould America's Religious Fascists demand Trump to act against gays?
    I think so.
    Read the following article and see what you think.

    http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/donald-trump-christian-leaders-226075


    On the other hand, NOT electing Trump, and voting in as many progressive candidates as possible, could put the christian right in the back of the bus for a long time to come. It's vital folks: vote Hillary: any other vote risks giving the election to the haters.
    Yeah right, vote for the most corrupt and most incompetent candidate for President. FYI, Donald Trump is not a narrow minded bible thumping screwball and he is not as anti gay as all your left wing extremists fear. He is not going to give free reign to the religious right if he is elected. If anything he is eventually going to toss all these flaky fundamentalists into the path of a oncoming, high speed train. He is a political outsider who is much more credible and more trustworthy than the hapless Hillary ho. Stop listening to all the ultra leftist fear mongering propaganda.



    Please provide facts to your many opinions about Trump you made above. Everything you just said about him goes against everything we know about him.
    What you know about Trump has been propaganda fed to you by the Hillary supporting corporate media. If you cannot see that than you are blind as a bat.



    You get your information from Faux News. I don't read Mother Jones or any other biased source. I read TRANSCRIPTS and I watch entire speeches to get my information. It's a riot how you people think you're getting "the real news" from Rush Limpdick and Fox "News."