Is It Moral to Put Down an Aging Pooch?

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    Aug 09, 2016 12:50 AM GMT
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    NYT: Our family dog, a 14-year-old terrier, is currently living with my us in Paris. She has made the trans-Atlantic flight three times in the past year (crated in the belly of the plane) when we return home for various family events. The trip is stressful for her (and for me), but she has always rebounded quickly to her normal self, which is a pretty energetic and healthy dog. Recently, however, her health has declined a bit: less energy, hearing loss, brief moments of apparent confusion and an as-yet-unexplained brief seizure. But she is happy and devoted to my wife and me, enjoying meals and daily walks.

    We are traveling back to the United States soon, and she has been checked out by a vet and cleared to fly. My bigger concern is the return to Paris two months later. Even if her health remains visibly stable, she has clearly started what may be a slow decline. So at what point do I not subject her to the stress and risk of the flight? At what point do I reflect on her long and happy life and consider ending it peacefully at our home in America, where she grew up with my daughters, who are now in college?

    Giving her to someone else to care for is not an option; we do not know such a person, and emotionally it would be difficult for us. Nor is placing her in a “no kill” shelter. I want her to be guided safely and peacefully to the end of her life, in the comfort of her family’s presence. If she were in pain or rapidly declining health with a fatal illness, I would not hesitate to put her out of her misery. Short of that, at what point is euthanasia an ethically viable option for a fading yet beloved family pet?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/07/magazine/can-i-put-down-my-aging-pooch.html?
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    Aug 09, 2016 1:05 AM GMT
    If she's not sick, and just aging, putting her down so you can jet-set to Paris and back again is, morally wrong, at least as far as my morals go.

    She can be boarded, left home with family, so many other options rather than putting an aging dog down.

    Your life, your dog, do what you will... but don't look here for justifications. icon_evil.gif

    And how does this possibly belong in the "All things gay" forum?
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    Aug 09, 2016 1:10 AM GMT
    JonSpringon saidIf she's not sick, and just aging, putting her down so you can jet-set to Paris and back again is, morally wrong, at least as far as my morals go.

    She can be boarded, left home with family, so many other options rather than putting an aging dog down.

    Your life, your dog, do what you will... but don't look here for justifications. icon_evil.gif

    And how does this possibly belong in the "All things gay" forum?



    ∆ You said everything I was about to say. Yes, giving the dog to another person who would live her IS an option; not sure why this person thinks it's not. Also, making your HEALTHY dog ride in that awful cargo hold is hell, much less for an elderly dog. Many dogs have died in there.
  • Import

    Posts: 7193

    Aug 09, 2016 1:10 AM GMT
    I feel like if the dog was in decent health and cleared to fly by the vet back to the US for 2 months.... and as long as the dog's health remains for those 2 months....why would you just put the dog down because of another flight?

    I guess IMO-- the only "moral" time to put a pet down is when their quality of life is such that it can no longer function normally or happily.... maybe can no longer eat...can no longer walk, or is in pain, labored breathing, etc... Not just cuz it's "slowing down"

    If the dog is still enjoying walks and eating, no need to put it down because of some trans-atlantic flights. Basically, only put the pet down when nothing can be done to improve it's quality of life and it's only going to get worse. But there has to be a like a catalyst for it...i dont think it can just be "yeah he/she is slowing down now, so we're gonna put it down"...rather it should be like an illness that arises like the discovery of cancer, failing kidneys, bad lungs/heart, etc...then you should make the decision to put the pet down. .
  • FRE0

    Posts: 4865

    Aug 09, 2016 2:05 AM GMT
    When Bowser had practically stopped eating and had really slowed down, I took him to the vet. The vet found that there was a tumor invading his digestive system. I chose not to have him put down immediately since he still seemed happy and there was no evidence of pain.

    A couple days later, he seemed happy to walk one block to the park. However, half way there, he had to stop to rest. When we got to the park, he stole someone's croissants, so I figured he probably had some life left. He was happy to meet people and other dogs in the park, but he just sat in one place.

    The next morning, when I looked outside, he was walking on three legs. When he drank from his water dish, he was standing on three legs. I called him into the house and sat on the floor. He lay down against my leg with his head resting on my leg. He was panting slightly, a sign of pain. At that point, I figured that the time had come so I called the vet. Bowser could not jump into the back of my hatchback so I had to pick him up and put him in. At the vet's animal hospital, he had to be carried in. I sat on the floor in a private room and again he lay against my leg, panting. The vet gave him an injection and he just quietly faded away.

    Considering the circumstances, I think I handled the situation appropriately. He had a happy life and it was time for him to go.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 09, 2016 1:20 PM GMT
    wasnt there a realjock post the other day, same format as this one quoting a NYT article on adoption vs surrogacy. By a Hidden/Deleted member? Same guy?
    reference:
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4235255
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 09, 2016 3:54 PM GMT
    You've been with this loyal, loving dog for a long time. You will know when it's time.
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    Aug 09, 2016 5:25 PM GMT
    I'm a little confused by the article. Am I supposed to empathize with someone considering the morality of euthanasia as they decide between that and leaving their pet of 14 years in a no kill shelter so they can continue to shuttle back and forth between the US & Paris? Are you fucking kidding me with this. There seems a bigger moral question here but it hasn't to do with putting down the pup.
  • badbug

    Posts: 800

    Aug 09, 2016 6:04 PM GMT

    I was excited to respond by the title but just feel annoyed now.


    It's pretty simple, is the dog's life worth living anymore in the dog's estimation?

    Stealing croissants sounds like fun. The dog i most recently put down, made it to where he pretty much couldn't walk for more than 5 minutes anymore, so i pumped him full of pain killers, bought him a life jacket and we went to the beach all day and he swam and played and even managed to do some running and one dock dive where i had to push him off the dock cause he couldn't manage to jump.

    It might of been one of the best days of his life. After a good 8 hours of non stop swimming and chewing of various sticks, he was still so high on opioids he didn't even want to eat his hamburger, just the patty. I knew how he felt! I was only a little less high than he was.

    It was easy put him down because it was the obvious end. After a good year in diapers, most things functioning except the bladder, not being able to walk or get up and move around the house at the end was too much for him.
    So we put all our eggs in the basket of one glorious last day knowing there was no need to take it easy on the old degenerative disc disorder because we weren't going to be needing that spine tomorrow.

    So i think it's just a simple equation of what you would want for yourself combined with your best estimation of what your dog would want as a dog (a dog clearly not giving a fuck about what house it dies in), and doing the math about how reasonably you can work it.

    Animals aren't afraid of the future like people are. There is no sense putting them down because their life will get harder, they aren't aware of that. You keep them happy until they show that the happiness doesn't outweigh the pain.



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    Aug 09, 2016 6:32 PM GMT
    badbug said
    So we put all our eggs in the basket of one glorious last day knowing there was no need to take it easy on the old degenerative disc disorder because we weren't going to be needing that spine tomorrow.



    There's something about that sentence above that made me tear up. I guess because I've had that very thought twice in the past two years when I had to put down my beloved Kelly and Joe. icon_cry.gif
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    Aug 09, 2016 7:00 PM GMT
    And on the flip side, when I had to sign an emergency treatment authorization last week for my seizing poisoned pooch (bufo toad, I found her paralyzed on her side with her head completely submerged in brackish water) I said to the receptionist "DNRs are for PEOPLE."

    Happily, my little girl (left) survived her near death experience and is fine.

    2cg0cxe.jpg
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    Aug 10, 2016 1:56 AM GMT
    JonSpringon saidIf she's not sick, and just aging, putting her down so you can jet-set to Paris and back again is, morally wrong, at least as far as my morals go.

    She can be boarded, left home with family, so many other options rather than putting an aging dog down.

    Your life, your dog, do what you will... but don't look here for justifications. icon_evil.gif

    And how does this possibly belong in the "All things gay" forum?


    +1
  • FitBlackCuddl...

    Posts: 803

    Aug 10, 2016 10:31 PM GMT
    ""...at what point is euthanasia an ethically viable option for a fading yet beloved family pet?"


    I think: When the dog is clearly in chronic pain and/or suffering from a condition where it cannot stand or walk.
  • FRE0

    Posts: 4865

    Aug 11, 2016 2:49 AM GMT
    badbug said
    I was excited to respond by the title but just feel annoyed now.


    It's pretty simple, is the dog's life worth living anymore in the dog's estimation?

    Stealing croissants sounds like fun. The dog i most recently put down, made it to where he pretty much couldn't walk for more than 5 minutes anymore, so i pumped him full of pain killers, bought him a life jacket and we went to the beach all day and he swam and played and even managed to do some running and one dock dive where i had to push him off the dock cause he couldn't manage to jump.

    It might of been one of the best days of his life. After a good 8 hours of non stop swimming and chewing of various sticks, he was still so high on opioids he didn't even want to eat his hamburger, just the patty. I knew how he felt! I was only a little less high than he was.

    It was easy put him down because it was the obvious end. After a good year in diapers, most things functioning except the bladder, not being able to walk or get up and move around the house at the end was too much for him.
    So we put all our eggs in the basket of one glorious last day knowing there was no need to take it easy on the old degenerative disc disorder because we weren't going to be needing that spine tomorrow.

    So i think it's just a simple equation of what you would want for yourself combined with your best estimation of what your dog would want as a dog (a dog clearly not giving a fuck about what house it dies in), and doing the math about how reasonably you can work it.

    Animals aren't afraid of the future like people are. There is no sense putting them down because their life will get harder, they aren't aware of that. You keep them happy until they show that the happiness doesn't outweigh the pain.



    Bowser was born in my compound when I lived in Fiji (1994 - 2004). His mother was a wild dog who was afraid of people; it was impossible to get within 20 feet of her. When I was planning to return to the U.S., I decided that I had to take Bowser with me because there was no way I could be sure that he would be properly cared for if I left him in Fiji, even if I left him with someone who liked him. Having Bowser actually drove my decision to live in Albuquerque, NM, rather than return to San Diego, CA, because in San Diego I could not have afforded a place to keep Bowser where he would be happy. He was nine years old when I brought him to the U.S. with me.

    Bowser was born outside and grew up outside. He preferred being outside most of the time. Having a house with a yard with an adequate yard was essential. So, because of Bowser, I ended up in Albuquerque even though I would have preferred San Diego. I think that I made the right choice.
  • Eleven

    Posts: 175

    Aug 11, 2016 5:14 AM GMT
    Everything stated is immoral, I still didnt read a reason why you have to put the dog down...

    I dont believe in ending lives because we "think" that person or animal is better off, you should never speak for another, maybe your will for survival is a lot less for that being.

    Its also immoral to fly an old dog from america to paris a couple of times in a year, its also very inconsiderate, cruel
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    Aug 11, 2016 4:15 PM GMT
    I am appalled by your question ...
    I cannot fathom how someone who loves his dog as you say you do , have the audacity to ask if it would be a moral decision to put his dog down , when that said dog is aging but still very healthy , what a shame to even have that thought .
    Postpone your trip to the U.S , until your beloved dog died peacefully , do not shorten his life for your own purpose , this is not fair to him/her
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    Aug 11, 2016 4:19 PM GMT
    FRE0 saidWhen Bowser had practically stopped eating and had really slowed down, I took him to the vet. The vet found that there was a tumor invading his digestive system. I chose not to have him put down immediately since he still seemed happy and there was no evidence of pain.

    A couple days later, he seemed happy to walk one block to the park. However, half way there, he had to stop to rest. When we got to the park, he stole someone's croissants, so I figured he probably had some life left. He was happy to meet people and other dogs in the park, but he just sat in one place.

    The next morning, when I looked outside, he was walking on three legs. When he drank from his water dish, he was standing on three legs. I called him into the house and sat on the floor. He lay down against my leg with his head resting on my leg. He was panting slightly, a sign of pain. At that point, I figured that the time had come so I called the vet. Bowser could not jump into the back of my hatchback so I had to pick him up and put him in. At the vet's animal hospital, he had to be carried in. I sat on the floor in a private room and again he lay against my leg, panting. The vet gave him an injection and he just quietly faded away.

    Considering the circumstances, I think I handled the situation appropriately. He had a happy life and it was time for him to go.


    Yes you did ....and Bowser is looking at your from doggy heaven with love in his eyes ..
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    Aug 11, 2016 4:22 PM GMT
    badbug said
    I was excited to respond by the title but just feel annoyed now.


    It's pretty simple, is the dog's life worth living anymore in the dog's estimation?

    Stealing croissants sounds like fun. The dog i most recently put down, made it to where he pretty much couldn't walk for more than 5 minutes anymore, so i pumped him full of pain killers, bought him a life jacket and we went to the beach all day and he swam and played and even managed to do some running and one dock dive where i had to push him off the dock cause he couldn't manage to jump.

    It might of been one of the best days of his life. After a good 8 hours of non stop swimming and chewing of various sticks, he was still so high on opioids he didn't even want to eat his hamburger, just the patty. I knew how he felt! I was only a little less high than he was.

    It was easy put him down because it was the obvious end. After a good year in diapers, most things functioning except the bladder, not being able to walk or get up and move around the house at the end was too much for him.
    So we put all our eggs in the basket of one glorious last day knowing there was no need to take it easy on the old degenerative disc disorder because we weren't going to be needing that spine tomorrow.

    So i think it's just a simple equation of what you would want for yourself combined with your best estimation of what your dog would want as a dog (a dog clearly not giving a fuck about what house it dies in), and doing the math about how reasonably you can work it.

    Animals aren't afraid of the future like people are. There is no sense putting them down because their life will get harder, they aren't aware of that. You keep them happy until they show that the happiness doesn't outweigh the pain.




    What a beautiful way to put it ....
    And perfectly said , " until they show that the happiness doesn't outweigh the pain " , just beautiful .....
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    Aug 12, 2016 3:47 AM GMT
    Ughhh. I called my ex's mom today and she immediately started crying. I knew before she spoke what it was. It's time to put her little dog down. She was crying in part because that dog is like her child but also because she can't afford to have it done because she's on social security. My vet is meeting me at her apartment at 9am tomorrow morning. I've had to do this twice the past couple of years for my own dogs and not looking forward to doing it again but it's better than letting him suffer and I can't let her go through this alone. It's just the worst thing to go through. icon_cry.gif
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    Aug 12, 2016 4:16 PM GMT
    Radd saidUghhh. I called my ex's mom today and she immediately started crying. I knew before she spoke what it was. It's time to put her little dog down. She was crying in part because that dog is like her child but also because she can't afford to have it done because she's on social security. My vet is meeting me at her apartment at 9am tomorrow morning. I've had to do this twice the past couple of years for my own dogs and not looking forward to doing it again but it's better than letting him suffer and I can't let her go through this alone. It's just the worst thing to go through. icon_cry.gif


    You really are a great bloke , the support you will bring to that little dog will bring him to a restful sleep far away from pain and discomfort , the support you will bring to your ex's mother in law will help her to grieve and not be alone on this difficult moment ..
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    Aug 13, 2016 7:40 AM GMT
    If it's not in pain or dying, it should be given away. Killing it to make your life easier is shitty.
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    Aug 13, 2016 6:06 PM GMT
    JackTX saidIf it's not in pain or dying, it should be given away. Killing it to make your life easier is shitty.


    If a pet has been with you 14 years which is often all if not most of its life, if that is the life which that life knew for all its life, then how is abandoning that life permanently to strange surroundings so late in its life less torturous for that life than ending that life?

    Granted, that situation can occur on its own with, say, the untimely death of the pet's guardian. But death being a natural part of life is not a betrayal. And not that the pet would understand that difference, but we can. Or the pet's guardian might have other life/death situations to factor in where the life of the human is superior--fishing for a good tuna sushi while fucking dolphin, for instance. But is flying to Paris an urgent matter of putting a baguette on the table so your human children don't starve? What justifies having enjoyed this other life in yours only to abandon it into a state of misery when no longer so convenient?