Why do some gay people support Palestine when they would be killed in that country?

  • Joshthegaymer

    Posts: 83

    Aug 14, 2016 5:52 PM GMT
    I am just curious is all
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    Aug 14, 2016 10:41 PM GMT
    i am not curious. Not even a tiny bit
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    Aug 14, 2016 10:54 PM GMT
    dam
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    Aug 14, 2016 11:47 PM GMT
    I would guess that few gay people "support Palestine," but rather they support the people of Palestine. The people not the state. Just as most Iranians may shout "death to America" while maintaining they have no ill feeling towards individual americans, and even like the ones they meet. Just as a lot of americans support Syrians, but not the state of Syria (which is committing genocide of its own people.) Many, if not most thinking americans, see the Palestinian and Syrian people as victimized.
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    Aug 15, 2016 4:50 AM GMT
    Why do some gays support politicians who accept stoning gays to death and Palestine:

    09-06-12-brunei-g-05.jpg



    Obama-Palestinians-UN_Horo.jpg

  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3382

    Aug 15, 2016 5:07 AM GMT
    HikerSkier said
    I would guess that few gay people "support Palestine," but rather they support the people of Palestine. The people not the state. ... Many, if not most thinking americans, see the Palestinian and Syrian people as victimized.

    Obviously at some level this view has legitimacy, but when you look at the activists that is not at all what they are saying.
    It quickly becomes clear that they hate Israel/Jews more than they care about Gazans/Palestinians.
    I dare say some would sacrifice the last Palestinian Arabs if that's what it took to destroy the Jewish state.

    Consider "BDS":

    Boycott Israel Movement Stunts The Palestinian Economy
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/carriesheffield/2015/02/22/boycott-israel-movement-stunts-the-palestinian-economy/#364c49da4b09

    The Palestinian Case Against BDS
    by Bassem Eid [a Palestinian Arab human rights activist]
    http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/view/the-palestinian-case-against-bds

    Victory for BDS as SodaStream’s last Palestinian workers lose their jobs
    http://www.timesofisrael.com/victory-for-bds-as-sodastreams-last-palestinian-workers-lose-their-jobs


    Why won't the "activists" condemn Hamas firing rockets from behind scores of thousands of human shields?
    From turning their own neighborhoods into war-zones?

    Amnesty: Palestinian rockets killed more Gazans in 2014 war
    https://www.yahoo.com/news/palestinian-rockets-killed-gaza-civilians-during-war-amnesty-094310033.html?ref=gs

    Hamas admits it lied about Casualties... Yet some RJers still attempt to spam & perpetuate those propaganda lies-for-the-cause?!
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/1217613

    A rocket salvo that killed 11 Gazan children and hit a hospital on a Muslim religious holiday was the work of Palestinian militants hitting their own people
    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/middleeast/article4392976.ece


    Why does virulent Anti-Semitism play such a large role in MidEast discussions on RJ?
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4015076
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/1443151


    Simon Deng, Former Slave: "There Are Peoples Who Suffer From... Anti-Israelism Even More Than The Israelis. I Belong To One Of Those People."
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/1933180

    Palestinians receive 13x's more foreign aid than Ethiopians Per Capita
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4055556


    The Two-State Solution: Revisiting The Clinton Compromise Parameters.
    I Support This. How Come The War-Mongering Anti-Israel Trolls Can't Honestly Discuss It?

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/2271313


    Even more shocking:

    Poll: Two-Thirds of Palestinian Arabs support murder of Israeli Jews, 25% even if attackers are little girls
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4192905

    Mahmoud Abbas: We Should Let Palestinians in Syria Die
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4055576
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3382

    Aug 15, 2016 5:17 AM GMT
    For the GAY angle on this topic, see these prior threads:

    Gay Palestinians
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/1061322/?forumpage=2

    Countries that support gays or kill them
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/984797

    Saudi Arabia says it will support human rights as long as they can still kill gay people
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4074318

    Israel Plans Monument to Gays Persecuted by Nazis
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/3401610/

    Israelis are ready to follow Ireland's lead and legalize gay marriage
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4069592

    Tel Aviv Pride 2015
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4064516

    Middle East's biggest LGBT pride parade draws 200,000
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4220173

    Israel is a secular, democratic, state (gay friendly, too)
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/3977469

    Vittorio Arrigoni murdered in Gaza by Palestinian terrorists - because he was gay?
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/1506698

    Hamas Commander, Accused of Gay Sex, Is Killed by His Own
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4188753

    A gay Iranian poet seeks asylum in Israel
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4198759

    Israel holds its first transgender beauty contest
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4205389

    Gay Palestinian Seeks Residency in Israel on Humanitarian Grounds
    http://www.haaretz.com/gay-palestinian-seeks-residency-in-israel-on-humanitarian-grounds-1.316274

    For Gay Palestinians, Tel Aviv Is Mecca
    http://forward.com/opinion/1125/for-gay-palestinians-tel-aviv-is-mecca

    "Pinkwashing"- LGBT Conference in Chicago Turns Violent From Anti-Israel Protesters
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4169945

    Why #Pinkwashing Insults Gays and Hurts Palestinians
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4054588
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    Aug 15, 2016 7:05 AM GMT
    Because of the injustice done to there people since Great Britten took land to create a country within a country, and still the illegal land grabs continue.
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3382

    Aug 15, 2016 8:24 AM GMT
    "Palestine" was the Greek/Latin-European name for Eretz Yisrael, the Jewish homeland.

    ogwhu.jpg
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3382

    Aug 15, 2016 8:26 AM GMT
    Prior to WW I (and the Brits), there was no "country" called "Palestine".
    Not even a district in the Ottoman Empire (which ruled for 400 years).
    Nor in the Mamluke Empire before that (more than 200 more years).

    You have to go back some 1,000 years to find Jund Filastin.
    That was a MILITARY District of a FOREIGN Arab Empire - an OCCUPIER, ruling from afar.

    And Jund Filastin was a north/south division.
    It included Amman (in present day Trans/Jordan) but excluded the northern half of Israel.
    Filastin did not include Acre, Haifa, Nazareth, Safed, Tiberius or Safed.
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    Aug 15, 2016 10:10 PM GMT
    Of course most Jews at the time had never been to Palestine, and wouldn't know a felafel from a fava bean, whereas Muslim and Christian Arabs had constituted the majority culture for 1,300 years. The Jewish population living there at the time was negligible, and there was no interest shown by Europeans of Jewish faith (mostly white converts, as DNA studies show) in settling Palestine in significant numbers until well into the colonial era (in fact the early-1900s).

    Why do gays support Palestinians?

    Maybe for the same reasons they support Afghans, Bosniaks, Chechens and Kosovars against far more gay-friendly oppressive states?

    Or maybe because so many gays are black, Latino, Muslim, Asian, or any of the other groups around the world that, unlike American (and a few remaining European) whites, overwhelmingly support the Palestinian struggle?
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3382

    Aug 16, 2016 2:05 AM GMT
    I know most people have put the AyaTrolLiar Founcer/JTheM on ignore, but just in case:

    AyaTrolLiar> Europeans of Jewish faith (mostly white converts, as DNA studies show

    Jews, of course, were never treated as "Europeans" and widely discriminated against in Europe (as in Arab/Muslim lands) precisely because they were considered foreign.

    What do the DNA studies show?

    The Y Chromosome Pool of Jews as Part of the Genetic Landscape of the Middle East
    www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1274378

    although Ashkenazi Jews were found to differ slightly from Sephardic and Kurdish Jews, it is noteworthy that there is, overall, a high degree of genetic affinity among the three Jewish communities. Moreover, neither Ashkenazi nor Sephardic Jews cluster adjacent to their former host populations, a finding that argues against substantial admixture

    Ashkenazi Jews were ethnic Jews, not Hungarians or Poles "of Jewish faith".
    See the snakeoil? He calls them "Europeans" precisely because he can't call them "Hungarians" or "Poles".

    Now the racist troll might argue that some of the Jews who arrived in Europe some 2,000 years ago took "European" wives, but so what? Is he arguing that Jews aren't sufficiently "racially pure"?! (Just wait, he's going to start yammering percentages if he's not wise enough to ignore my post).

    Judaism is the religion of the Jewish people.
    (Judaism is a religion, Jews are an ethnic group)

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/494893

    Ashkenazi Jews Are Not White People
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4057798

    Why does virulent Anti-Semitism play such a large role in MidEast discussions on RJ?
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4015076
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/1443151
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3382

    Aug 16, 2016 2:16 AM GMT
    West Bank, Gaza no haven for LGBT Palestinians
    http://www.washingtonblade.com/2015/07/09/west-bank-gaza-no-haven-for-lgbt-palestinians
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    Aug 16, 2016 3:15 AM GMT
    Anyone can be a Jew. That the vast majority of Jews were patriotic nationals of European countries and America before the mid-20th Century, overwhelmingly self-identifying as "white", and indeed even with the colonial ventures of the countries to which they bid allegiance, is well-established and uncontroversial.
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3382

    Aug 16, 2016 5:01 AM GMT
    There he goes again. Note the new snakeoil:

    AyaTrolLiar> Jews were patriotic nationals of European countries

    Post enlightenment, after centuries (or more) of discrimination, Jews in the 19th century were sometimes recognized as "nationals" in the countries where they happened to live.

    While Hungarian Jews may have been Hungarian nationals (for a short period), they were never ethnic Hungarians.
    Which is why the AyaTrolLiar was stuck saying they were "Europeans", as if that denotes an ethnic group.

    Despite supporting their country in WW I, Jews of Hungarian nationality were used by the Hungarian army in WW II as cannon fodder.
    Not sufficient to show how much they actually belonged, they were shot at by their own side, from behind, as they charged the enemy.

    While there are many cases of gentiles taking in and hiding Jews during the Holocaust, these pale in comparison to the numbers who voluntarily turned in or exposed Jews - of their own "nationality" - to the nazis.

    There were even instances - even after the war! - where Jews were massacred by their own neighbors and fellow "nationals".

    Consider further that "Europeans of Jewish faith" included those whose faith was Christian (born so to parents or grandparents who had converted) and who were secular or atheists. They all ended up in the gas chambers. Because, ethnically, they were Jews. Even those who were born of mixed marriages were too Jewish - even if they never considered themselves Jewish.


    Ironic that the AyaTrolLiar mentioned America because that only serves to further expose him. The large wave of Jewish immigration here around 1900 was prompted by the discrimination and pogroms these "nationals" faced in various countries in Europe - precisely because they weren't ethnic "Europeans".

    Note further that when Russian Jews reached America, no one considered them "Russian" but Jews (from Russia). Jews from Poland lived in Jewish neighborhoods, not in Polish neighborhoods. Because ethnically they were Jews, not Poles, not Russians, not Hungarians, not "Europeans".


    How drunk on the kool-aid of hate must one be to obsess over Jews and exude his Anti-semitism in a thread questioning why gays would support an Arab Palestine where they would be killed for being gay?

    Revealing that he hates Jews more than he cares for Palestinian Arabs or gays.
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    Aug 16, 2016 7:04 AM GMT
    Ah, just another Zionist thread - anti-Palestinian thread.

    It'll surprise you then, to learn that homosexuality has been legal in the West Bank for longer than it's been legal in so-called "Israel". Again clueless pro-Israel aren't smart enough about the Palestinian cause. We gay Palestinians don't support Israel's terrorism.

    Palestinian Queers for BDS


    Links below:
    Queer Palestinian Empowerment Network QPEN
    US Tour of Palestinian Queer Activists
    Palestinian gay couple killed by Israeli Gaza bombing
    Exploring Gay Palestine
    A Gay Israeli Soldier Asks Why His Country Has 'Abandoned' Him
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    Aug 16, 2016 7:14 AM GMT
    UMayNeverKnow saidI couldn't give a rats ass about the mythical country of Palestine or the "Palestinian" people.


    Nobody pay attention to empty useless profile. Get a life 20 yrs old kid.
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3382

    Aug 16, 2016 3:07 PM GMT
    Despite having his bluff called out repeatedly on RJ - for years - the propagandist persists:

    Sam27> homosexuality has been legal in the West Bank for longer than it's been legal in so-called "Israel".

    In the 1950s, Jordan took a bunch of British-era laws off the books, incidentally including sodomy laws.
    That didn't make it "legal" and of course there have never been any legal protections for LGBT people.
    It remained just as "legal" for the authorities to harass, torture and kill gays.
    It remained just as "legal" for families to kill their gay children (honor killings).

    While the first law passed by the PA (in the mid 1990s) was to prohibit the sale of land to Jews (talk about racist/apartheid...), the PA legislature has never even considered a gay rights initiative. (No, not because of the "occupation", but because it isn't on their agenda).

    The PA minister in charge of human rights has spoken out against homosexuality. Next to him, Jesse Helms would sound like an LGBT ally.

    The PA constitution stipulates that Sharia is the supreme law of the land.
    How "legal" does that make homosexuality?

    Gay Palestinians
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/1061322/?forumpage=2

    Countries that support gays or kill them
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/984797
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    Aug 16, 2016 3:58 PM GMT
    UMayNeverKnow saidI couldn't give a rats ass about the mythical country of Palestine or the "Palestinian" people.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Palestine

    Such a shame. Netanyahu almost had me fooled for a minute that Zionists "care" for the Palestinians more than their own leaders. Useful idiots like you sure come in handy when it comes to disabusing quiescent "liberals" of their illusions.
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    Aug 16, 2016 6:26 PM GMT
    Given that the world community (blacks, Hispanics, Arabs, Persians, Asians) support Palestine and its cause in overwhelming numbers, and would laugh at you had you even the merit (which you don't) of being relevant, your hateful opinions are meaningless.
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    Aug 16, 2016 10:03 PM GMT
    Probably because there's Palestinian children being kidnapped, tortured and or killed on a daily basis without a military or police force to protect them. There's more than enough people who don't care about their future so I'm just curious as to why you don't think they don't deserve protection or rights. Islam is fucked one way or the other but there's still gays among them that are trapped under religious rule that deserve a chance at life whether it be in Palestine or elsewhere.
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3382

    Aug 16, 2016 11:30 PM GMT
    Yes, it's quite tragic.

    Gaza: Palestinians tortured, summarily killed by Hamas forces during 2014 conflict
    https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict

    On top of Hamas firing rockets from amidst their own population centers - from behind schools and hospitals.


    Then there are the children being ab/used as soldiers/terrorists.

    Poll: Two-Thirds of Palestinian Arabs support murder of Israeli Jews, 25% even if attackers are little girls
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4192905

    The incitement to violence starts early:

    Palestinian kindergarten graduation ceremony has children perform terrorist drills
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4219550


    What will benefit the children, the gays and all Palestinian Arabs the most is making and living in peace.

    Let's talk peace: The two-state solution
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4180210
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    Aug 17, 2016 12:45 AM GMT
    BP201 saidProbably because there's Palestinian children being kidnapped, tortured and or killed on a daily basis without a military or police force to protect them.

    You're right. Israeli occupation soldiers kidnapped six Palestinians from the West Bank just today, murdered a teenager, demolished ten homes and a garage, shot and wounded seven refugees, uprooted 10 dunams of agricultural land and razed a tree nursery, hospitalized a 4-month old infant, and invaded half a dozen towns and villages, violently breaking into and looting residences.
    Just another regular day in the 50-year Israeli occupation of Palestine.

    A video emerged today of Israeli soldiers tossing a stun grenade at a group of Palestinian youths for fun, while an Israeli military court has decided against prosecuting a soldier who bullied an 8-year-old girl, stealing her bike for no reason.

    Where is the PA police in all this? Currently begging the Israelis to let them in on the action.
    The PA is unelected, having lost outright the last parliamentary election (it refuses to call another one), and has a self-appointed "President" who stole a rigged election in 2005, dismissed the elected legislature in violation of the PA constitution in 2007, and whose democratic mandate would have expired over seven and a half years ago had he been elected fairly.

    In short, Palestinians are ruled by a man and by a system (the PA) that they overwhelmingly don't want, and have the good fortune not just to be occupied by Israel and denied self-determination, but to have the most brutal political faction in their society (the one they rejected) as their kapos:

    Euro-Med Monitor: Report documents abusive detentions by both PA and Hamas to stifle freedom of expression
    http://www.euromedmonitor.org/en/article/1142/New-report-documents-abusive-detentions-by-both-PA-and-Hamas-to-stifle-freedom-of-expression

    || The number of human rights violations committed by PA authorities in the West Bank was significantly greater than those for which Hamas was responsible.

    American "democracy promotion" in action folks!
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3382

    Aug 17, 2016 4:08 AM GMT
    As usual, AyaTrolLiar Founcer/JTheM provides snippets designed to put his Hamas heroes in a better light than the Palestinian Authority.

    The AyaTrolLiar is one of those people who supported the PLO as long as they were murdering Jews, but since they (if halfheartedly) gave peace a chance he considers them quislings and now "kapos".

    The opposite, though with Hamas or rather its precursors in the 1970s. When those bona fide Muslim charities were building schools and orphanages, with Israel's support, he was against them. When after the export of the Iranian Revolution they turned violent and Hamas emerged, once they started murdering Jews, then he embraced them.

    AyaTrolLiar> The PA is unelected.... whose democratic mandate would have expired over seven and a half years ago

    As did Hamas'.

    AyaTrolLiar> having lost outright the last parliamentary election (it refuses to call another one)

    It is Hamas that has repeatedly rejected further elections.

    Previously the AyaTrolLiar justified that because he claimed that the Palestinian Arabs knew Hamas and that if they were elected they would suspend democracy. (As if a plurality of 44% can vote to do that. icon_rolleyes.gif )


    AyaTrolLiar> a self-appointed "President" who stole a rigged election in 2005

    There were 7 candidates and Abbas (Arafat's hand-picked successor) received a majority (62%) of the votes.
    There were no allegations of electoral fraud or irregularities.


    AyaTrolLiar> dismissed the elected legislature in violation of the PA constitution in 2007

    In accordance with the PA Constitution.
    After Hamas broke the Mecca Agreement (which established a coalition) and seized all power in a violent coup.
    (In another thread I detailed the Articles, but he's not one to let facts change his fictions.)

    The AyaTrolLiar justifies the Hamas coup based on a conspiracy theory that Fatah was planning to perpetrate a coup months or years later.

    Polls indicate the Hamas coup is supported by less than 20% of the Palestinian Arabs.
    AyaTrolLiar Founcer/JTheM would be an extremist even in Gaza.

  • mwolverine

    Posts: 3382

    Aug 17, 2016 4:12 AM GMT
    Euro-Med Monitor: Report documents abusive detentions by both PA and Hamas to stifle freedom of expression
    http://www.euromedmonitor.org/en/article/1142/New-report-documents-abusive-detentions-by-both-PA-and-Hamas-to-stifle-freedom-of-expression

    || The number of human rights violations committed by PA authorities in the West Bank was significantly greater than those for which Hamas was responsible.

    AyaTrolLiar> American "democracy promotion" in action folks!

    See how rather than condemn Hamas for violations, he pretends they are better than the PA and then seeks to blame America for both?

    His quote left out the next sentence of that paragraph:

    || both organizations [Hamas & PA] are guilty of censorship and oppression

    Now consider that the population of Trans/Jordan's former so-called "West Bank" is 2x that of Gaza.
    Thus per capita, Hamas is actually the greater offender.
    And it's offenses are worse:

    || In Gaza, 117 arbitrary detentions and 98 orders to appear were attributed last year to Hamas, which governs the Strip. Like their PA counterparts, the security forces primarily targeted political opponents. Among the detained were 23 journalists and human rights activists, 24 university students and five academics. Thirty-nine cases of torture were reported

    Hamas murders Jews, so in the AyaTrolLiar's perverted mind it gets a pass.