Why has the West been so supportive of Palestinian nationalism, yet so reluctant to support the Kurds, the largest nation in the world without a state

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 24, 2016 10:50 PM GMT
    http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/The-case-for-Kurdish-statehood-462555The Kurds have been instrumental in fighting Islamic State (ISIS); have generously accepted millions of refugees fleeing ISIS to the Kurdistan Regional Government (KRG); and embrace Western values such as gender equality, religious freedom and human rights. They are also an ancient people with an ethnic and linguistic identity stretching back millennia and have faced decades of brutal oppression as a minority. Yet they cannot seem to get sufficient support from the West for their political aspirations.

    The Palestinians, by contrast, claimed a distinct national identity relatively recently, are less than one-third fewer in number (in 2013, the global Palestinian population was estimated by the Palestinian Authority to reach 11.6 million), control land that is less than 1/15th the size of the KRG territory and have not developed their civil society or economy with nearly as much success as the Kurds. Yet the United Nations, the European Union, the Arab League and other international bodies have all but ignored Kurdish statehood dreams while regularly prioritizing Palestinian ambitions over countless other global crises....

    ...With an estimated worldwide population of about 35 million (including about 28 million in the KRG or adjacent areas), the Kurds are the fourth-largest ethnic group in the Middle East (after the Arabs, Persians and Turks), and have faced decades of persecution as a minority in Turkey, Iran and Iraq.

    The 1988 “Anfal” attacks, which included the use of chemical weapons, destroyed about 2,000 villages and killed at least 50,000 Kurds, according to human rights groups (Kurds put the number at nearly 200,000). Several international bodies have recognized those atrocities as a genocide....

    ...The Kurdish commitment to gender equality is yet another reason that Kurdish statehood merits Western support. There is no gender discrimination in the Kurdish army: their women fight (and get beheaded) alongside the men. Last December, Kurdistan hosted the International Conference on Women and Human Rights.

    The Kurds are also the only credible ground force fighting ISIS, as has been clear since the ISIS threat first emerged in 2014. ISIS “would have totally controlled the Baji oil field and all of Kirkuk had the [Kurdish] Peshmerga not defended it,”...

    ...A Kurdish state would also have excellent relations with Israel, another moderate, non-Arab, pro-Western democracy in the region. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu endorsed Kurdish independence in 2014, and Syrian Kurds – after recently declaring their autonomy – expressed an interest in developing relations with Israel.

    By contrast, the Palestinian Authority slanders Israel at every opportunity...

    ...By almost any measure, a Kurdish state deserves far more support from the West....

    12190802_1678712675707949_52089655056865
    fc,220x200,white.u3.jpg
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 4705

    Aug 25, 2016 5:39 AM GMT
    My uncle, who fled Iraq (on foot) in the 1940s, had nothing but good things to say about the Kurds.
    The friendliest people, he said.

    The Kurds are an ethnic group going back some 2600 years.
    Predating the Arab invasion and conquest of Mesopotamia (Iraq).

    They're not some geographic group that emerged from post WW I divisions.
    To the contrary, they got screwed after the end of WW I.
    The 1920 Treaty of Sevres envisioned a Kurdistan.
    When it was renegotiated in 1923 in Lausanne, it had disappeared from the map.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 25, 2016 2:56 PM GMT
    Oh so you are long settled in the middle east. I've one set of great grandparents who had settled in pre-modern-state Israel and my grandmother though born in the US lived there as a young child before moving back here. (there was a lot of back and forth in those days.) We've still property there in Petah Tikva. I can google map it from their streets view. So bizarre.

    We know very little about the Kurds here in the states--they don't make headline news as does other aspects of the middle east--and from Biden's recent comments it might seem they could be better supported, especially considering that it seems from what I've been reading about their culture that they'd make a good ally to the US.

    http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-08-24/biden-warns-kurds-in-goodwill-visit-to-turkeyBiden Warns Kurds in Goodwill Visit to Turkey

    ...The vice president also offered a stern warning to Kurdish forces on the ground in Syria that they would lose U.S. support if they don't retreat to the eastern bank of the Euphrates, immediately to the east of Jarabulus.

    "We have made it absolutely clear that they [pro-Kurdish forces] must go back across the [Euphrates] River. They cannot and will not, under no circumstances, get American support if they do not keep that commitment," Biden said, according to Kurdish newspaper Hurriyet Daily News.

    Kurdish involvement in the two-year-old U.S.-led war against the Islamic State group has become a major sticking point between the NATO partners – Kurdish fighters in Iraq and Syria have proven one of the most capable and effective combat forces on the ground, for a conflict to which President Barack Obama has declined to deploy large formations of American ground troops. The Turks, however, fear empowering Kurdish fighters in neighboring Syria and Iraq could further embolden separatist sentiments among the Kurdish population in Turkey....


    It's wild the complexity of the issues over there because then there's this:

    http://aranews.net/2016/08/turkey-fighting-kurds-pretext-combatting-isis-syria-politician/Turkey fighting Kurds under pretext of combatting ISIS in Syria

    KOBANE – Turkey is fighting Kurds under the excuse of combatting the Islamic State group (ISIS) in northern Syria, Kurdish politician Idris Nassan told ARA News on Thursday.

    The Rojava Self-Administration in northern Syria said in a public statement that the main goal of Turkey’s intervention into Syria’s Jarabulus is to ‘eliminate our democratic project’.

    According to the Kurds, the Jarabulus operation is the result of an agreement between the Syrian government and Turkey.


    So while I'm not real familiar with the issue, on first look it seems they are three times the size of the Palestianian population but also they've got three times the countries that they're dealing with to try and forge a homeland. It's strange to think of how far the world has come, yet still so unsettled.
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 4705

    Aug 26, 2016 1:38 AM GMT
    To answer the question in the title, could it be because the Kurds didn't perpetrate terrorist attacks in the West?
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 4705

    Jul 26, 2017 12:31 PM GMT
    Perhaps the Kurds aren't internationally attractive because they aren't fighting the Jews?

    French President Macron condemns anti-Zionism as anti-Semitism
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4318921
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 26, 2017 7:20 PM GMT
    What a lamentable thread. Consider, were it not for "the West" and their constant pandering to a small, racist country entirely dependent on them, Palestine would likely exist already.

    Not only is the deranged, departed OP and his right-wing Israeli newspaper proposing a demagogic false dichotomy (why fret about the Kurds when other oppressed groups are being killed in much larger numbers?), but the "reasoning" is idiotic. For example, what does the size of the Kurdish "territory" have to do with "deserving far more support" than the Palestinians?

    Yes, the Kurds suffered horrific massacres during the "Anfal" campaign, when Saddam Hussein used Western WMD, maps and satellites to destroy their villages in the course of his aggression against Iran (which the US lied was the perpetrator of the atrocities).

    Yes, the Kurds are fighting Saudi-backed takfiri groups like IS, and also NATO member Turkey - historically the worst oppressor of the Kurds, having massacred 40,000 of them with US arms and support since 1984 (the worst period was under Clinton, when a peak in atrocities was matched by a peak in arms sales, as with Reagan-Saddam in the 1980s).

    But no, it is hardly likely that a Kurdish state would have "excellent relations" with Israel, given that the latter has been a strong supporter of Turkey and its crimes against the Kurds living in the southeast of the country (Turkish Kurdistan), even playing a role in the capture of PKK leader Abdullah Öcalan.

    Israel has quite good relations with the Kurdish Regional Government in Iraq, but they are increasingly corrupt and unpopular, having entered into an alliance of sorts with the Turks, while their vaunted 'Peshmerga' fighting force dissolved like a sugar lump in hot tea in the face of the IS advance in 2014 (it was the Turkish PKK that rescued the Yazidi civilians trapped on Mt. Sinjar three years ago).

    I believe Iraqi Kurdistan is currently one of the most emigrated from locations in the world right now.

    Given that the PYD and its YPG militia in Rojava (Syrian Kurdistan) are basically an adjunct of the PKK in Turkey, and that the PKK and the Turkish Kurds more generally are represented by the HDP - a wonderful pro-LGBT socialist party fiercely supportive of Palestinian rights - I rather doubt that a sovereign Kurdistan would by any "ally" of the Apartheid State.

    Of course, were Butt-Ugly shilling consistently, he would denounce the PKK/YPG as "terrorists", "unlawful combatants" who have attacked civilians and may be murdered by the Turkish and Syrian authorities "extra-judiciously". He might also have pointed out that they "slander Israel" (i.e. condemn it correctly), rather more forcefully than the dictatorial Arab regimes with which Israel and the West are allied (also known as the craven "moderates" he implores us to support).
  • Plooje

    Posts: 757

    Jul 26, 2017 11:40 PM GMT
    Why are there so many Israel topics all of a sudden?
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 4705

    Jul 27, 2017 12:47 AM GMT
    ROTFL. Unable to address the topic here, SpamSam started a new thread titled:

    SpamSam> Zionist propaganda: Kurds don't have a country because of the Palestinian problem

    Is this just another straw man or cognitive impairment?
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 4705

    Jul 28, 2017 2:47 AM GMT
    AyaTrolLiar> Supporters of Palestinian Rights Are Hypocrites Because the Kurds Also Seek a State (Even While Many Pro-Palestinians Support the Kurdish Cause)

    Swing and another miss.
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 4705

    Aug 17, 2017 3:33 PM GMT
    KURDS HOPE ISRAEL CAN NUDGE US TO SUPPORT INDEPENDENCE
    http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Kurds-hope-Israel-can-nudge-US-to-support-independence-502425

    A number of senior Iraqi Kurd officials have visited Israel over the last several weeks urging Jerusalem to both support its independence and send a message to Washington to do the same, Zionist Union MK Ksenia Svetlova said on Monday.

    A referendum on independence in the Kurdistan region in Iraq is scheduled for September 25.

    The Jerusalem Post reported on Sunday that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu told a delegation of US Republican congressmen on Thursday that he is in favor of an independent Kurdish state in parts of Iraq.