Nice guys finish last!

  • bigguysf

    Posts: 329

    Oct 09, 2007 8:44 PM GMT
    Eternal optimist that I am, I never thought I'd hear myself say this... but I do believe now that nice guys actually do finish last.

    We all talk in the community about the cliques, the drugs, the shallowness, the bitchiness, the lack of commitment, yada yada yada. But in the end, if you try to be a good guy, be honest, treat others well, and do the right thing, you're in for a world of hurtin'. And if I were an asshole and just not give a shit, things would be so-o-o-o much easier.

    Has anybody else found that to be true for themselves too?
    (Maybe I should also change the first sentence to "Eternal optimist that I used to be...")
  • MikePhilPerez

    Posts: 4357

    Oct 09, 2007 9:41 PM GMT
    I would have to agree with you bigguysf.

    I have got into shit many times for being honest, while the dishonest hold there head in the air and everyone thing the world of them.

    It always amazes me, but I sleep better at night for it.

    Mike
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    Oct 09, 2007 9:46 PM GMT
    I agree.. but continue to think positive and believe some day that train called Karma will swing back my way..
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    Oct 09, 2007 9:49 PM GMT
    No. You only finish last if that's your perception of events. If the outcome of doing the right thing is not your best possible outcome, at least you haven't sacrificed your standard. Second place is the first loser, not the guy who finishes last.
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    Oct 09, 2007 9:57 PM GMT
    Another timely post. This definitely resonates with me this week!

    In time, the people who step on us good guys will be the very same ones who become old, bitter, lonely, and finally wise and remorseful enough to remember us. Life may seem easy for them now, but they are mortgaging their future happiness. They'll finish last, not you. Remember the finish line is WAY far away.

    The words karma and legacy keep me going (legacies don't have to be big). I'm also eternally hopeful that I'll truly be with the perfect guy for me if I can hold to the values of, as you put it "a good guy, be honest, treat others well, and do the right thing".
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    Oct 09, 2007 10:23 PM GMT
    Oy. The art director at a magazine I edited used to say about our horrible publisher -- a good friend of Miz Devil Loves Prada -- that "she'll suffer the karma she's created...maybe not in this lifetime but in the next."

    WTF? What good is that? I wanted to see her suffer IMMEDIATELY.
  • cacti

    Posts: 273

    Oct 09, 2007 10:55 PM GMT
    Depends on how you define finishing last. If you speak of career, then part of your system of measurement needs to include happiness. If you have a satisfying career and you didn't step on anyone's toes to get there, but you don't make a ton of money? Definitely not finishing 'last' in my book.

    I'm an eternal optimist too, and I nice guy who tends to get stepped on from time to time, but I would never say that I always finish last! The benefits outweigh the hurt... and I would never give up the ability to feel what I feel just to avoid an equal amount of pain.

    Dynamism beats static, and love defeats hate. icon_wink.gificon_biggrin.gif
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    Oct 09, 2007 11:04 PM GMT
    Browsing in the bookstore last week, I encountered the title, "The No Asshole Rule: Building a Civilized Workplace and Surviving One That Isn't," and thought to myself how appropriate that someone would write such a book. In my experience, there's a lot of assholes in the typical workplace and they often get ahead by backstabbing the good guys (or gals).

    I worked with an asshole... always lying, stabbing me in the back, etc. It was hard not to retaliate, but I decided not to say anything bad about him. I didn't want to compete by playing his dirty game. Enough people (including management) caught him in his lies that he lost respect... and I ended up moving ahead, leaving him behind.

    That's only one example, however. It seems you don't often see the assholes lose in the end... but I like to believe that, eventually, Karma's gonna get em, whether it's in the workplace or life in general.
  • MikemikeMike

    Posts: 6932

    Oct 09, 2007 11:11 PM GMT
    Nice guys might cum last, but don't have to finish lasticon_exclaim.gif I was always the eternal optomist. Now at 38 I have become a bit more cynical, but a wise man told me when dealing out the cards in life make sure you remember to deal your card first.icon_smile.gif
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    Oct 09, 2007 11:17 PM GMT
    well. nice guys finish last if your a nice guy and expect others to be just as nice. Its important for us nice guys to be realistic in our expectations of others.
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    Oct 09, 2007 11:48 PM GMT
    Most times I do agree that nice guys finish last. But I think it all comes down to being able to live with yourself and your actions.

    It takes a certain kind of person to be an asshole. To be okay with yourself after hurting someone, being rude, judgemental, etc. I think for some people, they get a rush from it. Sometimes I think it's an ego thing or even ignorance.

    You must get an instant rush from being able to lash out at a loved one or even a perfect stranger. I saw a guy from across the street the other day. He was having an argument with his female companion right on the street (first red flag). A moment later, he swung his fist and hit her in the head. I guess it's a quick way to release your frustrations but at the same time, I'm wondering how can this guy live with himself? Moreover, what in his life experience made him feel it was okay to do something like that.

    Road rage, picking fights, putting people down, hate speak, cutting in line, cheating, being dishonest, etc. It all depends upon what you can live with.

    Unfortunately, I don't really believe in karma. I just haven't seen enough of it. But I guess like OW said, I want to see them suffer immediately. Hmmm... now who's the asshole? icon_confused.gif
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    Oct 09, 2007 11:48 PM GMT
    Not at all - What goes around comes around.

    I am usually the giver in a relationship and finally I found my equal. Actually, I get told often that he adores me and showers me with gifts on "just for nothing day". Makes my breakfast and the list goes on. But remember a relationship is a 2 way street. Many individuals forget that after a while.
  • stevarino7

    Posts: 149

    Oct 10, 2007 1:48 AM GMT
    I could some how relate this to the tortoise and the hare, but out of fear that I will be laughed at, I will just say give it time. Those who are true to themselves and others and don't rush things, just stay honest and their true self, get what the deserve in the end. It may seem like a long race, but eventually you finish with what you want. Or atleast it is what I like to believe myself.
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    Oct 10, 2007 2:57 AM GMT
    To me "nice" and "honest" are two different things. Reality isn't always nice, and to be honest about reality means you can't always be nice. A lot of times a "nice" guy is actually a guy who is passive, gullible, and not taking his share of the responsibility. It takes more than a "nice" personality to understand other people's motives and to be able to see assholes for what they are. First, one must not indulge in fantasy about other people because that's when you get totally the wrong perception about people.

    I believe in doing the right thing and being honest, but not necessarily being "nice" all the time. One should be friendly and kind to strangers but should guard against being taken advantage. A good analogy is that a peaceful country still needs an effective defense. Blind pacifism doesn't serve the interests of the righteous.

    Another reason "nice" people fall behind is that by making a big deal about minor bad behavior in others, the supposed "nice" people fail to see what these people have done right. As a result people who complain about others most tend to be unable to learn from others, because they are blind to other people's talents and their own shortcomings by putting themselves on a pedestal.

    I hate the cliques, the shallowness, the bitchiness especially, but I make sure I don't get taken advantage by such people. I stay away from such people by picking up early warning signals from them. From my perspective there are many assholes that seem to finish ahead, but there are even more people who do the right thing that finish ahead as well. The ones finishing last are definitely not the "nicest" people; and there are certainly assholes that finish last (you just can't tell they're assholes because they have lost the opportunities to even do "asshole" things to other people).
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    Oct 10, 2007 3:11 AM GMT
    Of course nice guys finish last.

    My revenge: Contributions to the GOP!
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11648

    Oct 10, 2007 11:19 AM GMT
    The statement is somewhat true...
    Nice guys do finish lat
    But you have to take a step back and plan where it's not in your best interest to be nice
    Are you gonna be nice if somebody is deliberately sabotaging you at work?
    ...or a friend who's hitting on your BF?
    There's a time and place to be nice
    But you need to also know when to pick your battles
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    Oct 10, 2007 2:13 PM GMT
    Its not always the case...and being a nice guy....I refuse to change in the hopes of having better/more immediate outcomes...instant gratification if you will...what goes around comes around...and if youre evil and mean to others...it will come back to ya...that got proved yesterday on here in fact!!! Evil is GONE!!!
  • rugbyjockca

    Posts: 84

    Oct 10, 2007 5:18 PM GMT
    Warning: I'm currently deep in love, so I've lost all perspective on anything...

    It definitely sucks to watch people get ahead by lying, being selfish, etc, etc, and it always seems to happen more often than the good folks getting their rewards, but I gotta say that sooner or later it comes around.

    I happen to be completely smitten with a guy who happens to be smitten with me at least in part because I'm a "nice guy".

    And last year, I had to deal with mental illness, homelessness, and joblessness and there's no way I could have come through all that without the help of a lot of friends. None of those friends would have been in my life if I weren't the kind of guy I am. Like attracts like, and because I've made a point of being honest, kind, and generous, those are the sorts of folk I've attracted.

    Even though I've had to deal with some extreme assholes in my life, I can't say I have any problems with being the nice guy.
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    Oct 10, 2007 5:53 PM GMT
    I don't think I've ever finished last - and I hope I'm considered a nice guy icon_confused.gif
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    Oct 10, 2007 6:18 PM GMT
    owl975 wrote:nice guys finish last if your a nice guy and expect others to be just as nice. Its important for us nice guys to be realistic in our expectations of others.


    good point!

    I've got it double bad - I'm a nice guy that looks like a mean guy icon_lol.gif
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    Oct 10, 2007 6:27 PM GMT
    Nope can't say I agree with you. I know of jerks who are now lonely and unhappy because they treated others badly when they were hot and wanted. When they lose their sex appeal they lose their power. I conversely know of several gay couples (including myself) who are quite happy with their lives and are pretty decent people.
  • rugbyjockca

    Posts: 84

    Oct 10, 2007 6:37 PM GMT
    JoescorpioI've got it double bad - I'm a nice guy that looks like a mean guy


    As far as I'm concerned, that's the hottest kind of nice guy to be....
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    Oct 10, 2007 7:31 PM GMT
    hehe! I wish the guys around here felt the same way icon_neutral.gif

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    Oct 10, 2007 7:54 PM GMT
    Bigguysf, I know where you and the others here are coming from. Gay dating can be a desert, wherein you just wonder if you are EVER going to find an oasis. And friendship is just as hard. Where I live everyone breaks off into their clique, each with its kingmaker who decides who fits in and who doesn't. Couples get together but they have no use for a single. And being nice througout it all just seems to be useless. But I do agree with those here who say that it's worth it in the long run. But who knew it was going to be such a loooooooooong run?
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    Oct 10, 2007 8:43 PM GMT
    Being a nice guy has its own unique rewards. You can't judge your success as a good guy with the same criteria you would to judge a bad guy. . Trust me, its not really a competition at all.