Do Christians hate us? and then what?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 14, 2009 2:15 PM GMT
    Considering that most Christians hate us and spend millions against marriage equality what do you do?
    Do you become atheist?
    Do you become Deist?
    Do you become liberal christian?
    What?
  • Sayrnas

    Posts: 847

    Feb 14, 2009 4:26 PM GMT
    Well, you can take the higher ground and ignore them till they get in your way

    -OR-

    Be passive aggressive and slander the hypocrites with hip-and-now sayings stamped onto your car/van/hybrid/butt/boyfriend'sbutt/ect. via bumber stickers/that weird whip cream stuff that doesn't wash out/white stuff in general...


    I ,personally, will be doing both.
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    Feb 14, 2009 4:31 PM GMT
    I just completely walked away. I'm too busy trying to get my shit together in this world to worry about the next right now.

    Eastern religion seems nicer. They try to strive towards something. Western religion seems to focus on shame and guilt when you don't measure up. But that's just my observation
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    Feb 14, 2009 4:32 PM GMT
    worship satan on weekends and flip off the christians with obnoxious bumper-stickers during weekdays :p









    but in all seriousness, i just ignore them.
    like any bully, they just want to get a rise out of you, and the more of a reaction their hate-mongering elicits, the more empowered they feel to be obnoxiously sanctimonious.
    i get warm fuzzies deep down knowing they're going against their own teachings in being so judgmental, when their own man-god's only teaching was 'love everyone indiscriminately'- whenever someone told jesus that this or that person, surely, didn't deserve love, or was somehow inferior in God's eyes, jesus told them off. any 'christian' who champions rules and dogma over unconditional love and acceptance is as bad as the pharacies were. they're using god to justify hate and judgement, and its those circumstances to which i believe 'thou shalt not take the lords name in vain' is intended to refer; having the vanity to bless unholy actions and sentiments in god's name is just wrong.
    i get immense satisfaction in my certainty that if he were alive today, jesus would bitch-slap 98% of the 'christians' out there.
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    Feb 14, 2009 4:41 PM GMT
    I think that's the wrong thing to say... Because anyone who is a real Christian doesn't hate anyone, because god aint about that. Some may not approve of your lifestyle, (and by that I mean what is typically thought of gay people, which not all gay people do, or are) but it doesn't mean they hate you.

    There are a lot of people who are born homosexual, I actually saw a show about how that can happen, when the child is developing in the mom and all.

    Do you honestly think god would allow such a thing to happen, and then punish the person for it? I don't think so, also as I've said before, if god was so against the love between two men, he would have destroyed David, and Johnathan, because they clearly had strong love for each other and all. I doubt god would have blessed David enough to allow him to become a king.

    All types of people hate gay people, and none of those people are about anything good, and certainly don't know anything about god, if they claim to.

    God doesn't have any kind of hate, or rejection for anyone, if they have love in their heart for him, and only he knows a person's heart, no other man can.
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    Feb 14, 2009 4:51 PM GMT
    Religion is and always has been a social construct. It played a role in community development and organization, just as it does today.

    It organized people into social units (us vs. them), gave comfort to those who needed help or had financial hardship (the church will take care of you in a time of need), and what we see still very prominently today, appropriated for itself the right to dictate moral norms and punish those who refuse abide by the church's strictures.

    And once you realize this, that the church really is nothing more than man's own social construction (more interesting to anthropologists than theologians), you start to realize the whole idea of "God" is no less of a mythology for the modern western world than were Zeus and Apollo to the ancient Mediterranean world.

    And no one alive today would consider it heretical to deny the deity of Zeus. icon_exclaim.gif
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    Feb 14, 2009 4:53 PM GMT
    I agree that they are not actual christians. What is sad is that actual christians get influenced by them.
  • Sayrnas

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    Feb 14, 2009 4:57 PM GMT
    growingbig saidI agree that they are not actual christians. What is sad is that actual christians get influenced by them.


    That is really sad.
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    Feb 14, 2009 5:00 PM GMT
    There is a vocal minority out there trying to tell us we like little boys, have sex with anything with a penis, and are going to Hell for enteral damnation.

    Then there is a Silent majority who either... could care less about gay people... or fight/ support our rights.

    Seriously... the vocal minority won in Cali because they are organized and spread lies....
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    Feb 14, 2009 5:03 PM GMT
    growingbig saidI agree that they are not actual christians. What is sad is that actual christians get influenced by them.


    I'm a Christian, and I don't let anyone's words influence me, especially when I know for a fact, and in my heart that what they say goes against what god is all about. I'm fortunate to know other real Christians like myself who feel that very same way.
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    Feb 14, 2009 5:04 PM GMT
    yeah well i still resent your 'silent majority' for not being appalled by their own flagrantly hateful minority- they do nothing to speak out against them, or decry their beliefs, or distance themselves from it. and in the case of Catholicism, your theory doesn't even hold water, because the church itself is very clear on its stance against homosexuals. as a crime, your majority would be guilty of allowing it all to happen without lifting a finger- guilty by association because they do nothing to dis-associate themselves.
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    Feb 14, 2009 5:05 PM GMT
    Luther, would you currently consider yourself a Christian?
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    Feb 14, 2009 5:08 PM GMT
    cjcscuba1984 saidThere is a vocal minority out there trying to tell us we like little boys, have sex with anything with a penis, and are going to Hell for enteral damnation.

    Then there is a Silent majority who either... could care less about gay people... or fight/ support our rights.

    Seriously... the vocal minority won in Cali because they are organized and spread lies....


    God doesn't say anything about people being damned to hell, if they have love for another dude haha, only men who get power trips, and or have a lot of guilt and shame in their own lives, and harshly judge, and punish others to make themselves feel better, say crap like that. Again its nothing of god, just man exhibiting one of many imperfections.

    What you basically have is the extreme right conservatives, talking a lot about the hate and ignorance, again none of them know a thing about god.

    At the same time the gay community, world, culture certainly does not put itself in such a good light, and makes it very easy for people to have horrible views of gay people, because of how they put themselves out there.
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    Feb 14, 2009 5:10 PM GMT
    sometimes i think christians get all hot and bothered because we have such a fun life, make far more money on average and basically just really enjoy life a hell of a lot more than they do.

    and they're upset because they have so much penitence, sins to atone for, prostration, self punishment, self loathing, repression of pretty much anything pleasurable, and the big list goes on.

    sorta looks like we got all the toys and they got a lump of coal.

    Edit:

    I forgot that RJ interprets regular html as well as bbcode. the end of this post DID have --> < /snarky humor >
  • treader

    Posts: 238

    Feb 14, 2009 5:17 PM GMT
    Become a Buddhist. We were here long before the Christians. icon_wink.gif

    Seriously, that's what I did. Meditation and yoga are both good for you. Although Buddhism has not formally accepted homosexuality as far as I know. (The Dalai Lama is still 'thinking' about gay marriage.) Most groups are pretty cool about it or completely accepted it.

    Grew up Catholic and just felt like I needed to move on from Christianity. (Been there. Done that.) Buddhism is less structured. It's 'holy' book has the same problems as the Bible. It has its eccentric factions too. (Chant for that new house while looking into our sacred scroll! Oh, no thanks.)

    Buddhism does seem to be more of a philosophy on how to live your live rather than a religion - which is not a bad thing...
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    Feb 14, 2009 5:33 PM GMT
    FirefighterBlu3 saidsometimes i think christians get all hot and bothered because we have such a fun life, make far more money on average and basically just really enjoy life a hell of a lot more than they do.

    and they're upset because they have so much penitence, sins to atone for, prostration, self punishment, self loathing, repression of pretty much anything pleasurable, and the big list goes on.

    sorta looks like we got all the toys and they got a lump of coal.



    Well I have a fun life, smart guy, make very good money, love my family/friends, I'm a good looking guy, love my careers, seen/experienced a lot of awesome things, I'm a Christian, and love being a father.

    My idea of fun is not having sex with X amount of people, or getting into drugs, or dancing it up at some club, having a bunch of people look at you like some piece of meat and trying to feel you up. I'm not saying EVERY gay person is like that, but again that's part of the lifestyle that gets put out there more by the mainstream gay world, I've never been jealous of anyone's lifestyle, because I feel I have everything I want right now, and I do thank god for all of it.

    What does bother me though is for example, a lot of guys on here who are gay, will ask, or say some pretty freaky and disrespectful stuff to me like, asking if I let my sons touch me, or if I have sex with them, talking about raping me, or me raping them, don't know a damn thing about me, not even my name, but the first thing they want to know is how big I am between my legs. I've also run into guys who just don't seem too happy, especially if they've wasted so much time, and energy living by the gay world standards, and of course not ALL gay people are like that, cause I know gay guys who just want a stable normal guy,but run into a lot of garbage.

    Like I said before the only "Christians" who get all hot and bothered about gay people, are those who just have a lot of hate, and ignorance in their heart, and will try to use god to justify their hatred, or even their acts of violence. That type of behavior, and thinking is not something god would condone at all. You never ever try to judge another man's heart, that is only god's job, and nobody knows who is in the book of life.

    But its not just extreme right "Christians" who have ill views of gays, I've run into atheist, liberals, very successful, well to do people, who think gay people are disgusting, or gay people make them feel uncomfortable. All sides have the intolerance, and hate but do it/show it in different ways.
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    Feb 14, 2009 6:03 PM GMT
    treader saidBecome a Buddhist. We were here long before the Christians. icon_wink.gif

    Seriously, that's what I did. Meditation and yoga are both good for you. Although Buddhism has not formally accepted homosexuality as far as I know. (The Dalai Lama is still 'thinking' about gay marriage.) Most groups are pretty cool about it or completely accepted it.

    Grew up Catholic and just felt like I needed to move on from Christianity. (Been there. Done that.) Buddhism is less structured. It's 'holy' book has the same problems as the Bible. It has its eccentric factions too. (Chant for that new house while looking into our sacred scroll! Oh, no thanks.)

    Buddhism does seem to be more of a philosophy on how to live your live rather than a religion - which is not a bad thing...


    Actually the whole Christian thing started up in the Middle East, and its the ancient city of Babylon that gave birth to all the world religions, and mysticism of the world today. There were all sorts of religions being practiced there, and a lot believe that when the tower of babel was destroyed, and people split up, and went about their ways, they brought a lot of those beliefs with them. I think that would explain a lot why all cultures, with no relation to each other, have a word for Dragon, and put such importance on these beast, and other beast mentioned in the bible, that we find in mythologies of other cultures. (not saying Dragons walked around ha)

    I'm not saying Buddhism is bad or anything though, Just saying its not as old as the whole Christian thing. The Christian thing got put more in the light when the son Jesus (and no he was not white, blonde, and blue eyed ha) started going around doing his preaching thing, but the Hebrew god YHWH, Yahweh, Jehovah, whatever you want to call him, was around and about way, way before that, and Buddah.

    Its fascinating to me, imagining all of the biblical history that would be found, if the Middle East wasn't so hostile haha (I thought a lot about that, when I was in Iraq) , especially also knowing that area of the world is where life also began. The stories of archeologist who have tried to find such things in that region have been "Wow", its just crazy crazy dangerous.

    I don't pay mind to old Europe's version of Christianity, because a lot of it is somewhat very distorted sorry.
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    Feb 14, 2009 6:08 PM GMT
    Global_Citizen saidReligion is and always has been a social construct. It played a role in community development and organization, just as it does today.

    It organized people into social units (us vs. them), gave comfort to those who needed help or had financial hardship (the church will take care of you in a time of need), and what we see still very prominently today, appropriated for itself the right to dictate moral norms and punish those who refuse abide by the church's strictures.

    And once you realize this, that the church really is nothing more than man's own social construction (more interesting to anthropologists than theologians), you start to realize the whole idea of "God" is no less of a mythology for the modern western world than were Zeus and Apollo to the ancient Mediterranean world.

    And no one alive today would consider it heretical to deny the deity of Zeus. icon_exclaim.gif


    i totally agree with you.. well said!
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    Feb 14, 2009 6:20 PM GMT
    If a "Christian" hates you then they aren't a Christian. Watch the "theys" ."They" are generally a product of your prejudices.
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    Feb 14, 2009 6:25 PM GMT
    I say be what you want to be, Luther. If being a Christian fulfills you then be one. No one owns Christianity despite what most of the Christians think. If you find the tenets of Christianity comforting then why not take comfort in it?

    For me, I happen to think that Christianity requires a lot of editing. You've got to overlook a lot of things that are pretty prejudicial and narrowminded (like a woman must be silent in the church). Jesus had wonderful teachings but the Apostle Paul--a single man his whole life--wrote some pretty homophobic things as well. If you can separate the wheat from the chaff then it might work for you.

    I used to be a Christian and I don't miss it at all. I don't consider myself any faith right now, but because my closest friends are Reform Jews, I participate in a lot of services and activities at the local synagogue. I really enjoy my involvement there.

    Taoism and Buddhism offer beautiful philosophy that is hate free. Who says yo can't mix it up. There is no way any human being can wrap his mind around the idea of God, so why not try everything and see what works for you?
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    Feb 14, 2009 6:38 PM GMT
    Damarco saidI say be what you want to be, Luther. If being a Christian fulfills you then be one. No one owns Christianity despite what most of the Christians think. If you find the tenets of Christianity comforting then why not take comfort in it?

    For me, I happen to think that Christianity requires a lot of editing. You've got to overlook a lot of things that are pretty prejudicial and narrowminded (like a woman must be silent in the church). Jesus had wonderful teachings but the Apostle Paul--a single man his whole life--wrote some pretty homophobic things as well. If you can separate the wheat from the chaff then it might work for you.

    I used to be a Christian and I don't miss it at all. I don't consider myself any faith right now, but because my closest friends are Reform Jews, I participate in a lot of services and activities at the local synagogue. I really enjoy my involvement there.

    Taoism and Buddhism offer beautiful philosophy that is hate free. Who says yo can't mix it up. There is no way any human being can wrap his mind around the idea of God, so why not try everything and see what works for you?


    I agree, you should believe in what makes you happy, and what makes you feel strong, or stronger.

    As far as the Christian thing goes, sounds like you ran into a lot of "Christians" who don't know anything about the teachings, and or people who just presented it wrong.

    Nothing in my bible teaches anything of narrow mindedness, prejudice, or hate, because none of those things are what god is about. That is what man is like, because man is imperfect. All religions have beautiful philosophies, and teach love, and acceptance and all that other nice mushy stuff. However its man that usually distorts these teachings, because again, man is imperfect.

    As far as women being silent in church I don't know who told you that haha, because Jesus listened to everyone around him, male and female, and he accepted any and all, no matter where they came from, as long as they had the love in their heart.

    I also think religion cannot be forced on anyone, its always a personal thing, and you yourself must learn about it, and even ask yourself questions, and talk to those who exhibit the right behaviors of someone who does care about god, and tries his/her best to follow the teachings, meaning they understand how man is not perfect, and will make mistakes, and god doesn't hate, nor reject anyone who makes mistakes, because he knows your heart.
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    Feb 14, 2009 6:42 PM GMT
    I think a problem is that people define "christian" differently and some don't consider that others may think that your beliefs are TOTAL NONSENSE. Even the christian bible points out that jesus himself knew how people would act and disowned them when he said ..

    Matt 715"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

    21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
    and also
    John13 34"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."
    But wait!! there's more just to make it clear icon_eek.gif
    John 1512 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you ..
    17 This is my command: Love each other.

    The Moral of the story is people can call themselves whatever they want, but the way you treat people will give you away. Everyone has to be responsible and answer for their own issues. I am 100% convinced that we are all 100% human and pretty much the same no matter what we call ourselves. Now the way we treat others is another story. People need to have faith in the fact that we are more alike than we are different. Argue and disagree if you must, but in the end you will end up dead as dirt, so make the best of your life.
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    Feb 14, 2009 6:43 PM GMT
    Rad,

    a coupla things. please see my fixed post. that probably would have saved you a lot of typing ;-)

    next, i disagree with your interpretation of theist history. by my count, buddhism is older than christianity by about 589 (560BC) years. prior to this it would be judaism-abraham, by which the OT is significantly different from the NT, meriting a technical division. and if we go by science rather than theology, the world is FAR older than 2085BC which was the start of modern religions; judaism-abraham.

    3000BC is the approximate beginning of the roots people, of what would become judaism-abraham near 560BC. judaism-abraham supplanted hebraism which came into existance around 1300BC. Rig-Veda, arguably a religion, hymns were written some time earlier than 1500BC. this eventually disappeared within a rather vague range of time that Vedism became. Vedism led to Brahmanism around 800 BC which split multiple times between 700BC and 500BC to what we now refer to as the eastern religions of the world.

    the 75 million years prior to 3000 BC are a bit vague, sorry 'bout that.
  • Sebastian18

    Posts: 255

    Feb 14, 2009 6:43 PM GMT
    czarodziej saidworship satan on weekends and flip off the christians with obnoxious bumper-stickers during weekdays :p


    As much as I agree with czarodziej's comment out of my own inherent romance with anathemaeism and blashphemy, I think the initial question:

    Luthergooch saidConsidering that most Christians hate us...
    ; it too general of a statement.

    I would argue that the overwhelming majority of mainline Churches in North America and Europe are largely gay-friendly or at the very least tolerant of homosexuality, even if it's in the form of "don't ask, don't tell". While official doctrine of, say, the Roman Catholic Church in North America acting on authority from Rome is definitely anti-gay, their stance according to the Catechism is:

    "2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,140 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."141 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved."

    Granted, not the most pro-gay stance one could come up with, but still points that the Church doesn't hate gays, just gay sex from a doctrinal standpoint.

    Other churches, such as the Episcopal Church in America, the ECLA Lutheran Synod, and United Church of Christ are all mainline churches in America which are largely accepting and have acted in defense of the integrity of homosexual persons in the past - oftentimes to the point of criticism by smaller nut-job churches such at Westboro Baptist Church and even larger nut-job denominations which read the Bible literally (typically a bad idea) instead of contextually (the only way to stay Christian and sane).

    You may consider looking at other religions as well. Judaism in Western Europe and in North America is largely pro-gay, especially the Reformed and Conservative leagues - Orthodox Judaism is pretty much in the same boat on their opinion of homosexuality as is the Roman Catholic Church.

    Ultimately it's up to you to decide, but I would shy away from blindly accepting a belief system unless you go into it as a 31 Flavor Religion of the Week perspective - which is the approach I took to understand my opinions of religion in general and recently became ordained a deacon in my church - which is very, very, very liberal.
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    Feb 14, 2009 6:45 PM GMT
    Rad_d81 saida lot believe that when the tower of babel was destroyed, and people split up, and went about their ways, they brought a lot of those beliefs with them.

    The tower of Babel? That's a fable. And you're not telling us something "a lot believe", you're telling us the account of the story as it's written in the Bible.

    The story of the tower of Babel is just one of the many fables told by the Bible that some people still cling to, and mysteriously, take to be literal truth, even today.

    I suppose you also believe that Noah literally gathered up a pair of each species on earth (or seven of the "clean" animals) and herded them into a boat to float around for 40 days. A boat built entirely out of wood, built by Noah and his three sons, and built to nearly the size of a modern football stadium. icon_rolleyes.gif