Letting Athletic Shoes (and any others) Help with Injury & Prevention via Heel-Toe Drop or Offset

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    Feb 07, 2017 7:56 PM GMT
    http://runblogger.com/2010/06/heel-toe-drop-or-offset-what-does-it.html
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    Feb 07, 2017 8:07 PM GMT
    http://www.newtonrunning.com/blog/overcoming-injury/heel-height-matters/

    Chungli-Wang.jpg

    Regarding heel lift: As a recent convert to forefoot/midfoot running, and also a recent purchaser of Newtons, I can suggest that many of us have soft tissues in the back of the lower leg that are so accustomed to wearing a shoe with a heel that is at least 1/2 inch higher than the ball of the foot that those muscles and tendons have shortened accordingly. Hence having less of a heel-to-ball differential aids in the transition to a totally flat shoe. This is also why their three shoes move progressively toward total flatness: 5mm, 3mm, and 2mm for the racers. I bought the racers but may have to go to the Guidance Trainers unless my soft tissues gain more elasticity to handle the 2mm differential, which is yet to be determined. I understand that they are presently working on a shoe that is 0mm.
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    Feb 07, 2017 8:17 PM GMT
    My problem is pronation, if you know what that is. Nike running shoes were not good for me. Of course this was back in the 1970s.

    And the Nike last was always too narrow for me. I went to New Balance. They had a wide size, and I didn't have a pronation problem with them.

    But I've learned NB funds extreme right wing political groups. Well, OK, their choice. But my choice to no longer buy from them.
  • 1blind_dog

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    Feb 08, 2017 3:53 AM GMT
    I've been running in 0 drop minimalist shoes for 8 years and I absolutely recommend it to anyone looking to transition. I ran in typical Asics for over a year when I was first getting into running. I had an issue with my right knee that stemmed from playing catcher in baseball growing up. I needed to pop my knee twice a day. 6 months into my first minimalist shoes and it was gone. I had my growing pains learning the form. Two metatarsal hairline fractures from overdoing it when my feet weren't ready for how intense I was trying to go. Now my feet are strong, form is good, balance is great. I run in nothing but Merrell's from their thickest 8mm 0 drop to their thinnest 2mm 0 drop. My knees love me for it.
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    Feb 08, 2017 4:03 AM GMT
    1blind_dog said
    I've been running in 0 drop minimalist shoes for 8 years and I absolutely recommend it to anyone looking to transition. I ran in typical Asics for over a year when I was first getting into running. I had an issue with my right knee that stemmed from playing catcher in baseball growing up. I needed to pop my knee twice a day. 6 months into my first minimalist shoes and it was gone. I had my growing pains learning the form. Two metatarsal hairline fractures from overdoing it when my feet weren't ready for how intense I was trying to go. Now my feet are strong, form is good, balance is great. I run in nothing but Merrell's from their thickest 8mm 0 drop to their thinnest 2mm 0 drop. My knees love me for it.

    You highlight some good points. One is that a shoe must work for YOU. It may not work for others. And what works for them may not work for you.

    I recommend, when possible, seeking a shoe store with someone trained in proper athletic shoe fitting. Some may want a shoe for running, or basketball court work, for a tennis court (as I did myself for years), for simple walking, whatever.

    Once you know what your proper shoe is then you can buy it again & again. I learned that I had a pronation issue. Nikes caused me to have knee pain, due to pronation. Other people don't have that issue. If you're gonna be serious about your athletic shoes, then you need a serious fitting.
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    Feb 08, 2017 4:51 AM GMT
    1blind_dog saidI've been running in 0 drop minimalist shoes for 8 years and I absolutely recommend it to anyone looking to transition. I ran in typical Asics for over a year when I was first getting into running. I had an issue with my right knee that stemmed from playing catcher in baseball growing up. I needed to pop my knee twice a day. 6 months into my first minimalist shoes and it was gone. I had my growing pains learning the form. Two metatarsal hairline fractures from overdoing it when my feet weren't ready for how intense I was trying to go. Now my feet are strong, form is good, balance is great. I run in nothing but Merrell's from their thickest 8mm 0 drop to their thinnest 2mm 0 drop. My knees love me for it.


    1 blind dog,

    For me, going to 0 mm pretty much crippled me.
    Two weeks ago, I went to 4 mm and I'm walking better, still with a cane, but the bursitis on the right heel went from about 100% to about 10%.

    There are other details, but not tonight, if I ever get into those details here.

    It seems I used to wear tennis shoes with 12 mm drop.
    I looked at a ruler with inches and centimeters.
    I'm thinking 10 mm = 1 cm. 12 mm is a noticeable difference.

    I'm debating if I should ever go that high again. My calf and soft tissue beneath the calf probably hasven't been at 0 mm since ballet classes which ended 1984. So, I shouldn't have tried 0 mm athletic shoes or flip flops.

    I'm wondering if 6 mm will do the trick--get me off my cane.
  • 1blind_dog

    Posts: 384

    Feb 08, 2017 6:36 AM GMT
    Stephen,

    I've interacted with many people suffering from plantar fascitis, but never bursitis. I'm curious if you know what caused it?
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    Feb 08, 2017 6:56 AM GMT
    1blind_dog said
    Stephen,

    I've interacted with many people suffering from plantar fascitis, but never bursitis. I'm curious if you know what caused it?

    I'm just surprised to hear about bursitis of the foot. Both my husband & I have had it in our shoulders. It means an inflammation or irritation of the bursae, which are fluid filled sacks around major joints.

    Typically in the shoulders, as we've had, or sometimes in the hips. But reading up on it, I see it is possible to have it in the heels. Less common, but it does happen.

    BTW, my husband has also been diagnosed with plantar fasciitis. He also has a heel spur (ala Donald Trump, whose condition miraculously cured itself after he got a draft deferment for it). Unfortunately heel spurs do not cure themselves, usually worsen over time, but my guy is doing OK. No surgery yet.

    And his shoulder bursitis was resolved with an injection into the joint, done right in his orthopedic doctor's office while I watched. Didn't even hurt him. Beautiful.
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    Feb 08, 2017 1:51 PM GMT
    My left foot has a collapsed arch and bunion, which has caused crippling pain in the past. I tried Foot Levelers custom orthotics, and they didn't help at all. A friend suggested those orthotics sold on TV (Phase 4, now called WalkFit), and they worked miraculously. My main strategy is being barefoot at home all year long and consciously correcting the left foot's pronation; this strengthens the foot muscles. In terms of athletic footwear, I have Merrell Road Gloves and Asics (Gel Kayano or higher.) I wear the Merrells without orthotics and only if I'm not going to be doing a lot of walking. I wear the Asics with the orthotics, and I can be on my feet all day with them. I've pondered surgery, but I've been advised that it often doesn't work and often makes it worse.
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    Feb 21, 2017 2:19 AM GMT
    1blind_dog saidStephen,

    I've interacted with many people suffering from plantar fascitis, but never bursitis. I'm curious if you know what caused it?


    I'm right handed.
    I carried my college booksack on my left hip which now sits higher than my right hip.
    In airports, I lifted and carried luggage on the left hip.
    Likely, something was wrong since birth.
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    Feb 21, 2017 2:29 AM GMT
    paradox saidMy left foot has a collapsed arch and bunion, which has caused crippling pain in the past. I tried Foot Levelers custom orthotics, and they didn't help at all.

    A friend suggested those orthotics sold on TV (Phase 4, now called WalkFit), and they worked miraculously.

    My main strategy is being barefoot at home all year long and consciously correcting the left foot's pronation; this strengthens the foot muscles.

    In terms of athletic footwear, I have Merrell Road Gloves and Asics (Gel Kayano or higher.)

    I wear the Merrells without orthotics and only if I'm not going to be doing a lot of walking.

    I wear the Asics with the orthotics, and I can be on my feet all day with them.

    I've pondered surgery, but I've been advised that it often doesn't work and often makes it worse.


    Thanks Paradox.

    You know, I'm sure at some point I tried those but not recently.

    I got a pair of New Balance Fresh Foam Zante v3. The heel to ball of toe differential is 6 mm, not 4 mm.
    I returned the 4mm.

    The 4mm differential got rid of 85% of the bursitis.
    The 6mm differential got rid of an extra 12%.
    So, now, I'm 97% bursitis free.

    Paradox, I have the bursitis when I walk barefoot around the apartment. So, I get into the Zante's ASAP. I ordered a second pair.
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    Mar 01, 2017 4:59 PM GMT
    http://www.somastruct.com/heel-on-running-shoe-effects/
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    Mar 01, 2017 5:33 PM GMT
    To James/somastruct / James is a Physical Therapist with a Master's degree in his field

    Hi, James. I'm right handed (so I carried textbooks and heavy laptop on my left hip). My left hip now rests higher than my right hip--some of the difference could have been since birth. My shoe size used to be 11. Now, it is 12.5 and I have to wear size 13 footwear. Apparently, my arch has dropped. I was told that my tennis shoes had a 12 mm differential from heel to ball of toe. In 1983, I took beginner ballet class in college. Ballet shoes are probably 0 mm differential. This past year I learned that 0mm footwear is out of the question for me. They crippled me. As soon as I went to 4mm differential, I could walk a little bit better and 85% of my right heel bursitis went away. 6mm rise left 1% bursitis mostly from barefoot walking at home. But I could not get back to walking naturally. So I bought arch supports form the drug store. Immediately, I was not walking from the front of my hip but from the middle of my hips. Unfortunately, I felt like I was falling forward. There must be some overlap between the differential lifting the arch of the foot and arch support also lifting the arch of the foot. Pain and constraint are back. I think I need shoes where toes are raised off the floor. Walking without letting my toes touch the floor gets me into my mid hip and off the cane walking front of hip walking.What do you think about all this? - Stephen
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    Mar 11, 2017 3:43 PM GMT
    paradox saidMy left foot has a collapsed arch and bunion, which has caused crippling pain in the past. I tried Foot Levelers custom orthotics, and they didn't help at all. A friend suggested those orthotics sold on TV (Phase 4, now called WalkFit), and they worked miraculously. My main strategy is being barefoot at home all year long and consciously correcting the left foot's pronation; this strengthens the foot muscles. In terms of athletic footwear, I have Merrell Road Gloves and Asics (Gel Kayano or higher.) I wear the Merrells without orthotics and only if I'm not going to be doing a lot of walking. I wear the Asics with the orthotics, and I can be on my feet all day with them. I've pondered surgery, but I've been advised that it often doesn't work and often makes it worse.


    My walkfit order arrived. They are as I remember from an order maybe a decade ago.
    I cannot walk on them but I sure like standing in them. They are really too high for me. Ergonomically, they are so much better than the arch support a person can get from a drug store size 8-12. The WalkFit orthotics are within a half inch of one's shoe size.