Hawaii just became the first US state to pass a bill supporting basic income, aka Universal Basic Income

  • metta

    Posts: 42929

    Jun 18, 2017 6:26 AM GMT
    Hawaii just became the first US state to pass a bill supporting basic income

    http://www.businessinsider.com/hawaii-basic-income-bill-2017-6
  • mybud

    Posts: 13500

    Jun 18, 2017 6:09 PM GMT
    joeisawesome1 saidi also read in one place that Hawaii is apparently the best place to live if you're on SSI/disability. and it's even more ironic because i actually am Hawaiian (but not Hawaiian enough to get free land there at all)
    I don't even want to live on 1 island anyway. I gotta be connected to stuff. But Hawaii does look like a cool place icon_smile.gif
    I still say working would be the best therapy for you.....
  • mybud

    Posts: 13500

    Jun 18, 2017 6:58 PM GMT
    I don't mean this statement in malice....I just feel it would do wonders for your self respect and esteem. ..Duces .
  • metta

    Posts: 42929

    Jun 19, 2017 2:38 AM GMT
    Universal Basic Income is Not “Free Money”

    https://futurism.com/universal-basic-income-is-not-free-money/
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    Jun 19, 2017 5:01 AM GMT
    metta saidUniversal Basic Income is Not “Free Money”

    https://futurism.com/universal-basic-income-is-not-free-money/


    You're correct, Liberal Mandates are never free. Someone else always pays.
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    Jun 19, 2017 5:14 AM GMT
    Isn't Hawaii an occupied country, by the United States?
  • metta

    Posts: 42929

    Jun 22, 2017 9:44 PM GMT
    Finnish citizens given universal basic income report lower stress levels and greater incentive to work

    Participants receive €560 (£473) every month for two years and do not have to demonstrate that they are actively seeking work

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/finland-universal-basic-income-lower-stress-better-motivation-work-wages-salary-a7800741.html
  • PennsyGuy

    Posts: 1102

    Jun 23, 2017 12:25 AM GMT
    metta saidUniversal Basic Income is Not “Free Money”

    https://futurism.com/universal-basic-income-is-not-free-money/


    Here's an idea for you Metta person: Why don't you convince all the people who live in your neighborhood to put all their income into a single bank account that everyone in the neighborhood has access to, whether they have put in any money or not. Then there won't be any more "income inequality" problem - at least in your neighborhood.
  • metta

    Posts: 42929

    Jun 23, 2017 3:17 PM GMT
    Actually, life’s going to be pretty sweet when a robot takes your job, economist predicts


    ‘There will be new jobs created as wealthier countries spend a bigger fraction on health,’ he says.

    ‘We need governments to make policy to distribute the benefits from automation. Taxation is a necessity. We need everyone to be paid a universal basic income. Then we can encourage the automation, and bring it in as much as we can. But we need government policy to do it – to ensure that people pay their taxes.’


    https://uk.news.yahoo.com/actually-lifes-going-pretty-sweet-robot-takes-job-economist-predicts-185834389.html
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    Jun 23, 2017 3:35 PM GMT
    [UBI] is like raising the minimum wage to cope with higher living costs caused, in part, by higher labor costs. Or how the cost of college exploded when government intervened with easy student loans. Or how the cost of health insurance exploded when government forced participation. In that same way, an artificial guaranteed income high enough to survive in Hawaii will increase prices on everything for everyone — including massively raising taxes.

    http://www.activistpost.com/2017/06/you-think-hawaii-is-expensive-now-wait-until-universal-basic-income.html

  • metta

    Posts: 42929

    Jun 23, 2017 4:16 PM GMT
    ^
    Actually, the ACA slowed down the growth of health care costs. I have not seen anyone come up with any other alternatives to dealing with automation/robotics than Universal Basic Income. Many business leaders (Elon Musk, Bill Gates, etc.) have said the same thing. UBI will not create some kind of utopia but it could help us in dealing with the loss of jobs.
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    Jun 23, 2017 5:40 PM GMT
    metta saidUniversal Basic Income is Not “Free Money”

    https://futurism.com/universal-basic-income-is-not-free-money/

    The article says someone should be compensated for just being, not necessarily working or contributing to society other than consuming oxygen.

    Let's assume that a combination of public and private assistance can adequately provide for those who cannot legitimately work. That means any current inadequacies are corrected. Let's also assume there is a minimum wage set to provide a basic standard of living.

    If these assumptions are correct or made to be correct, then it appears the only thing a basic income would cover is providing a stipend for those who can work but choose not to. Is that what you're in favor of?
  • metta

    Posts: 42929

    Jun 23, 2017 5:56 PM GMT
    ^
    No, that is incorrect. There will be less jobs available due to automation/technological advances. People will have to work less hours so that more people can work. The UBI would help alleviate the financial burden of having to work less hours. BTW, please read a few of the above articles for more information on how the testing of it is working so far.
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    Jun 23, 2017 6:39 PM GMT
    All this is based on a false view of automation overcoming basic human nature. Socialism with automation is still socialism. The problem with it has and will always remain vexed by the problem that eventually you run out of other people's money and you can't tax your way into prosperity.

    A bit of socialism that may work in some countries such as Norway with a low population relative to abundant resources won't work in the US. Even Sweden has moved to the right.
  • metta

    Posts: 42929

    Jun 23, 2017 7:29 PM GMT
    ^

    And that brings us back to Macroeconomics: MMT

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4283321
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    Jun 23, 2017 7:29 PM GMT
    All this is based on a false view of automation overcoming basic human nature. Socialism with automation is still socialism. The problem with it has and will always remain vexed by the problem that eventually you run out of other people's money and you can't tax your way into prosperity.

    A bit of socialism that may work in some countries such as Norway with a low population relative to abundant resources won't work in the US. Even Sweden has moved to the right.

    ADDED: Aside from any economic arguments, let me ask you this:

    If someone who is unable to work gets by on public/private assistance and someone who does work gets by on minimum wage, then who else besides someone who can work but chooses to not work would benefit from a universal basic income? So the simple question is this: How do you justify society providing a stipend for someone in this case, i.e. is able to work but chooses to not work?