Is is wrong to dislike the idea of drag queens?

  • highforthis

    Posts: 719

    Sep 10, 2017 3:35 AM GMT
    I just had a conversation with a guy from Grindr whose profile said "if you watch Rupaul, we probably won't get along". He said he received a lot of abuse about it, for "failing to appreciate what drag queens did at Stonewall" or "internalized homophobia" or something along those lines lol, followed by "i hope you die alone" etc.

    This is one of those things that annoy me about the gay community - this militant expectation of having to buy into the complete stereotypical package. It's possible to both appreciate the role of drag queens for gay rights AND be turned off by bitchy personalities on reality tv clamoring to be the biggest diva. Someone who values humility and respect probably won't get along with someone who enjoys the glorification of diva attitudes. It's also possible to like drag queens as individuals, but dislike associating gay identity to some kind of rebellion against gender norms. I wish people were more introspective and less defensive of their identity politics. End rant
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 16696

    Sep 10, 2017 3:40 AM GMT
    As a gay man, I dont like drag queens and I dont want anything to do with them. If they dont bother me than I wont bother them. It is that plain, pure, and simple.
  • Happenis

    Posts: 288

    Sep 10, 2017 3:49 AM GMT
    I actually got into a big debate about a similar topic not too long ago; except the group in question was transgender.

    I don't see it as a fair expectation for gay men to UNDERSTAND any form of transsexuality (whether its just being a drag queen or full-on transitioning). At the end if the day, a gay man is still CISGENDERED like a straight person is so they really are no more likely to fully understand the struggle more than a straight person. They should TRY since they are also an oppressed group but the *reality* is that they won't understand each other. It also works on the flip-side since many trans people desperately want to be accepted as "normal" and distanced from the gay community.

    Gays, Bisexuals and Lesbians are binded by the fact that their struggle is as a result of their *sexual orientation* so it's expected that we'll naturally understand each other (to a reasonable extent).

    However: Crossdressing, Drag Queens and Transgenderism literally has literally nothing to do with a struggle of acceptance based on one's sexual orientation but an attempt to alter one's gender identity either permanently or temporarily.

    I got a lot of flack for mentioning this with people claiming that I was being divisive; but the above seems to make sense. I'm a person that tries to understand all struggles (even ones that aren't my own) but not all gay men are like this unfortunately.

    As for drag queens, I have ZERO interest in that. However, I do find crossdressing to be a fun hobby occasionally; and that's okay if others don't understand why.
  • buddycat

    Posts: 2271

    Sep 10, 2017 4:12 AM GMT
    I like RuPaul but to be honest, I am turned off by drag queens at the current moment. I think people are confusing drag queens with transgender people. Drag queens are performers who for the most part live as men. I know a couple drag queens that I have known since 1990. I liked the one on Facebook and we were talking about bars but for some reason he/she took issue with me discussing this issue I had with these steroid guys and this old queen talking shit about me thinking he can get one of them. I never heard back. To be honest, I was turned off by them because of their egotism. The one acted like I was a "fan" even though I know him/her for a long time. They are unattractive as men but get attention when they are in drag leading to their egotism. Anyhow I un-liked them along with Woody's because of the treatment I have been receiving by their fat staff.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Sep 10, 2017 5:15 AM GMT
    There's nothing wrong with disliking drag queens. Or with disliking a race, gays, Christians, Muslims, whatever. What's wrong is verbalizing that dislike, or acting on it in some way. Of course that's too hard for the haters.
  • Apparition

    Posts: 3827

    Sep 10, 2017 5:20 AM GMT
    does anyone LIKE drag queens? I mean, even DRAG queens dont like each other.
  • Happenis

    Posts: 288

    Sep 10, 2017 5:34 AM GMT
    A lot of straight women love drag shows
  • highforthis

    Posts: 719

    Sep 10, 2017 6:08 AM GMT
    Lumpyoatmeal saidThere's nothing wrong with disliking drag queens. Or with disliking a race, gays, Christians, Muslims, whatever. What's wrong is verbalizing that dislike, or acting on it in some way. Of course that's too hard for the haters.


    If it's wrong to say it, it's wrong to think it! Never quite understood that kind of thinking
  • buddycat

    Posts: 2271

    Sep 10, 2017 6:45 AM GMT
    Apparition saiddoes anyone LIKE drag queens? I mean, even DRAG queens dont like each other.


    Yes, I have heard of the cat fights before a contest or show.
  • MuchoMasQueMu...

    Posts: 569

    Sep 10, 2017 8:14 AM GMT
    highforthis said
    Lumpyoatmeal saidThere's nothing wrong with disliking drag queens. Or with disliking a race, gays, Christians, Muslims, whatever. What's wrong is verbalizing that dislike, or acting on it in some way. Of course that's too hard for the haters.


    If it's wrong to say it, it's wrong to think it! Never quite understood that kind of thinking


    You're conflating hate with dislike. Sorry to break it you both but in western society a person has the freedom and the right to express his or her dislike. The only part I can agree with that people shouldn't act out on their dislike or hate toward a person or a group of people.

    Where are the classical liberals who championed free speech even though it didn't conveniently align with what they believed in? Do you honestly think controlling thought and speech will create the desired effect you want? A much better approach would be to counter any dislike or hate speech with a valid and sound argument to dismantle a person's prejudice and bigotry. That's how you win people over, not by suppressing them.
  • buddycat

    Posts: 2271

    Sep 10, 2017 8:32 AM GMT
    I actually remember a drag queen that sang in her own voice like Rupaul many years ago. The rest are just obese or ugly men in pancake make-up.
  • interesting

    Posts: 746

    Sep 11, 2017 6:50 AM GMT
    buddycat said....The rest are just obese or ugly men in pancake make-up.


    Deja Nouveau - Drag
    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRz_7Qk41jJ1XsOmxi1x_D

    Deja Nouveau - Out of Drag
    Deja_Nouveau.jpg

    Milk - Drag
    7663370.jpg?292

    Milk - Out of Drag
    mgid:ao:image:logotv.com:218965?quality=

    But maybe...beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
    So on to the OP original post, this phrase had me do a Scooby Doo and go ruh-roh
    highforthiswhose profile said "if you watch Rupaul, we probably won't get along"

    Why should that have matter what competition TV show I watch with us getting along??
    I can appreciate a guy for not liking drag queens on TV or otherwise and being upfront about it, okay, that's fine, understandable, I can't appreciate a guy for using it as the singular thing to reject another person based on it. I'm thinking that was why he was getting the wrath of others...of course, there are always exceptions.

    And as an aside, when one puts a negative line in the beginning of their profile, expect negative responses.
  • buddycat

    Posts: 2271

    Sep 11, 2017 9:13 AM GMT
    I am sure there are exceptions. These are photos too. My experience is that bigger guys tend to look ridiculous in drag. My point is generally, drag queens generally look better in drag then out and bad drag queens look better out of drag than in. The guys you posted are young but neither are strikingly handsome outside of their pro photos.

    interesting said
    buddycat said....The rest are just obese or ugly men in pancake make-up.


    Deja Nouveau - Drag
    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRz_7Qk41jJ1XsOmxi1x_D

    Deja Nouveau - Out of Drag
    Deja_Nouveau.jpg

    Milk - Drag
    7663370.jpg?292

    Milk - Out of Drag
    mgid:ao:image:logotv.com:218965?quality=

    But maybe...beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
    So on to the OP original post, this phrase had me do a Scooby Doo and go ruh-roh
    highforthiswhose profile said "if you watch Rupaul, we probably won't get along"

    Why should that have matter what competition TV show I watch with us getting along??
    I can appreciate a guy for not liking drag queens on TV or otherwise and being upfront about it, okay, that's fine, understandable, I can't appreciate a guy for using it as the singular thing to reject another person based on it. I'm thinking that was why he was getting the wrath of others...of course, there are always exceptions.

    And as an aside, when one puts a negative line in the beginning of their profile, expect negative responses.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Sep 11, 2017 9:24 AM GMT
    I usually don't bother with people who have a lot of "what I hate/dislike/you better not" descriptions in their profile. I also don't buy into "If you have humility, you don't watch this type of show mentality". It actually sounds kiddish to me, needless to mention a complete oxymoron.

    It is none of my business if someone dislikes gays, drag queens, trans people, people from different racial groups , gender, religion, eating habits etc. The idea is that one can have those views and yet believe in a sense of equality; in one's right to exist in their chosen expression. One can have a lot of bigoted views and yet have enough class and substance in them that when they do interact with someone from that group (or talk about them), they do it with humility, respect and dignity or otherwise choose to mind their own business.

    When one decides that they can belittle, egg on another person or group because of their right to "free speech" then they have no right to claim that others are being militant and that they should show tolerance. Do they forget that others have a right to free speech too? That words carry meaning and that rights are handcuffed with responsibilities. That's some false sense of entitlement if you believe in one and not the other. If you dish out, you better know how to take it too.

    And let's be honest here: most people can see right through BS. This guy from Grindr chose to write "If you watch RuPaul, we probably won't get along". Most people who read this understand that it is a simply more subdued way of saying "Drag Queens/ trannies/twinks stay outta my way, I don't like you", otherwise why would he specifically mention one show out against thousands of other shows and one he doesn't watches himself? He put it out purposefully or subconsciously that only he knows. Perhaps, it is him that needs introspection.

  • buddycat

    Posts: 2271

    Sep 11, 2017 9:32 AM GMT
    Interesting: You are also posting pics from a TV show. These are not the run of the mill drag queens from a drag contest at a bar. My experience most of these are not that attractive as men. They usually have a big nose and are skinny or morbidly obese.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Sep 11, 2017 9:49 AM GMT
    MuchoMasQueMusculo said
    highforthis said
    Lumpyoatmeal saidThere's nothing wrong with disliking drag queens. Or with disliking a race, gays, Christians, Muslims, whatever. What's wrong is verbalizing that dislike, or acting on it in some way. Of course that's too hard for the haters.


    If it's wrong to say it, it's wrong to think it! Never quite understood that kind of thinking


    You're conflating hate with dislike. Sorry to break it you both but in western society a person has the freedom and the right to express his or her dislike. The only part I can agree with that people shouldn't act out on their dislike or hate toward a person or a group of people.

    Where are the classical liberals who championed free speech even though it didn't conveniently align with what they believed in? Do you honestly think controlling thought and speech will create the desired effect you want? A much better approach would be to counter any dislike or hate speech with a valid and sound argument to dismantle a person's prejudice and bigotry. That's how you win people over, not by suppressing them.


    I only partially agree with you. Neither controlling thought and speech will create the desired effect nor countering arguments will dismantle a person's prejudice. For instance, a racist person is racist not because he doesn't hear enough arguments about diversity and bigotry. If he does, he isn't a racist, just an ignorant who can change with exposure. He is a racist in spite of all that is present in front of him. I believe only kids of impressionable age can change with the sound of arguments around them. Most adults learn through self observation and chilling realisation that comes through the course of experience, and that too if they are modest enough to be introspective and courageous enough to be honest to themselves. Otherwise, those words are just annoying lectures for the most part that repel people away than make them see the mirror.
  • Destinharbor

    Posts: 4748

    Sep 11, 2017 4:30 PM GMT
    I can't stand drag queens. I don't mind that there are people out there who like to dress up like women or characters and put on an act, I just don't enjoy it and it seems like they take over everything as though they represent gaydom. They don't. They're the farthest thing from my interest in guys possible. Saw a group of pics from New Orleans "Decadence" and there wasn't a single pic that wasn't about a drag queen, or at least a guy dressed in women's clothing. I know it was the photographer or the editor's pick but it makes being gay look oddly feminized.
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16386

    Sep 11, 2017 5:07 PM GMT
    It really isn't my scene, but I don't condemn it either. Flexibility is key. I'm sure there are some great things about dressing up in drag or doing a drag show for those
    who participate. If you want to do, be my guest. It just isn't what I think about or really want to do.
  • interesting

    Posts: 746

    Sep 11, 2017 7:48 PM GMT
    buddycat saidInteresting: You are also posting pics from a TV show. These are not the run of the mill drag queens from a drag contest at a bar. My experience most of these are not that attractive as men. They usually have a big nose and are skinny or morbidly obese.


    MILK is the one on the show, but Deja is not (and that pic seems to be a selfie, unless we zoom out and see a crew) and like I said, beauty is indeed very subjective, and that's an aside from their youth. I personally find them good looking.
    And your point in the bold, I don't disagree with that, but that's not what was said, this quote was the one I disagreed and what I based my post on
    buddycatThe rest are just obese or ugly men in pancake make-up.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Sep 11, 2017 9:16 PM GMT
    I think you are entitled to liking or disliking something, but going out and proclaiming about how you hate this or that, makes you look like an asshole.
    Lot of these people, like most in gay community, have a struggle story where they found these characters as a escape root from their shitty childhood or just life.
    So your unnecessary complaining about how you hate them, even when they aren't really doing anything directed towards you is just uncalled for. The same goes about how so many guys bash feminine guys on their profile. Even if 2-3 fem guys message you, it doesn't mean you have to show your disdain so vocally.
    Not all fem and drag queens are bitchy, same as not all self-proclaimed MASC dude are really MASC.
  • LEANDRO_NJ

    Posts: 1208

    Sep 11, 2017 9:28 PM GMT
    I prefer to admire and look at the beauty of a real woman over a fake one any day!
  • outdoorsmuscl...

    Posts: 838

    Sep 11, 2017 9:30 PM GMT

    I don't hate drag queens I just don't get them.
    I don't even like woman why would I want to dress like one?
    They are a total turnoff for me. Loud whiny people irritate me. I am a true INTP https://www.truity.com/personality-type/INTP
    If they float your boat fine. "Live and let live".
    I would rather hike a mountain, create a garden,
    work on my truck or workout at the gym.
    Queerdenker saidI think you are entitled to liking or disliking something, but going out and proclaiming about how you hate this or that, makes you look like an asshole.
    Lot of these people, like most in gay community, have a struggle story where they found these characters as a escape root from their shitty childhood or just life.
    So your unnecessary complaining about how you hate them, even when they aren't really doing anything directed towards you is just uncalled for. The same goes about how so many guys bash feminine guys on their profile. Even if 2-3 fem guys message you, it doesn't mean you have to show your disdain so vocally.
    Not all fem and drag queens are bitchy, same as not all self-proclaimed MASC dude are really MASC.
  • MuchoMasQueMu...

    Posts: 569

    Sep 12, 2017 12:09 AM GMT
    I don't hate drag queens. But I tend not to like them. I have no issues with femininity or effeminate men (I'm just not sexually attracted to any man that's feminine). But when it comes to drag queens it's the catty, malicious histrionic theatrics that I can't stand. It seems like standard behavior for nearly all of them. They way they insult everyone and put on airs and their uppity , haughty behavior all nauseate me. And it seems like everything they do or say or wear are all blatant efforts for attention.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Sep 12, 2017 1:05 AM GMT
    It's a show of mockery that can be really laughable. A few chuckles are fun.
    Do you think men-who dress up, may have been "MOCKED" bullied or abused by
    a woman OR a man? There's something deeply physiological there, right? Mockery at it's finest!

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Sep 12, 2017 1:10 AM GMT
    Destinharbor saidI can't stand drag queens. I don't mind that there are people out there who like to dress up like women or characters and put on an act, I just don't enjoy it and it seems like they take over everything as though they represent gaydom. They don't. They're the farthest thing from my interest in guys possible. Saw a group of pics from New Orleans "Decadence" and there wasn't a single pic that wasn't about a drag queen, or at least a guy dressed in women's clothing. I know it was the photographer or the editor's pick but it makes being gay look oddly feminized.


    Oh good ole SOUTHERN DECADENCE!! LOVED IT!

    Mockery, debauchery, nudity, fetish, leather/kink and strip shows galore! It's the gay/bi/try and transexual of mardi graws. lol Fun and crazy!!

    southern-decadence-670x447-670x447.jpg