I wish someone in Christian Society-(homosexuality/sin)

  • Little_Spoon

    Posts: 1562

    Feb 22, 2009 10:10 AM GMT
    would just debunk that the God thinks Homosexuality is a sin.

    The one time it's really mention, the verse that is used for so many hate crimes, it's not the word of God. It's part of a List of Hebrew laws that include what not to wear and what not to eat.

    Not everyone in the religious community can be so dumb.

    Seriously.

    icon_neutral.gif

    Still waiting for someone to say it.

    Homosexuality is not a sin.
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    Feb 22, 2009 10:19 AM GMT


    If you belive in the Bile or any holy book then you musn't suspect for a second that it has something wrong in it, or not said by god..
    This is faith:tottally belive in god and his prophets. There is no place to doubt and say : god said it, but maybe he's wrong. Let's try to study this and judge it by our human senses and thoughts ...

    Apparently people who wrote these religion rules were homophobic.. bad luck.

    Will these threads never end ?

  • MikePhilPerez

    Posts: 4357

    Feb 22, 2009 2:48 PM GMT
    DanielH saidwould just debunk that the God thinks Homosexuality is a sin.

    The one time it's really mention, the verse that is used for so many hate crimes, it's not the word of God. It's part of a List of Hebrew laws that include what not to wear and what not to eat.

    Not everyone in the religious community can be so dumb.

    Seriously.

    icon_neutral.gif

    Still waiting for someone to say it.

    Homosexuality is not a sin.


    Homosexuality is not a sin. And God loves you just as much as any straight person, if not more.

    I'm Catholic. Does that count?
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    Feb 22, 2009 3:11 PM GMT
    Many Christian churches are moving more and more toward acceptance of homosexuality. It takes time. One of the strengths of religions is the stability of moral convictions that span generations and allow grandparents and grandkids to connect and have a sense of continued community.

    The strength becomes a hindrance to handling the biases and querks that work their way into texts and sermons - which can be largely influenced by individuals in the wrong place at the right time.

    The 'biases and querks' can turn in to 'holocaust', 'inquisition', 'witch trial' and 'crusade' when in the hands of really wrong individuals in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    I guess one of the benefits of Christianity is forgiveness. The church seems to forgive itself of past horrors and keeps truckin'



  • NickoftheNort...

    Posts: 1416

    Feb 22, 2009 3:22 PM GMT
    Keep in mind that in these cases of "Christian" condemnation, the Bible is the excuse.

    While the Bible may be the original catalyst in some cases, it is the ongoing hate and the production of the "otherness" of gays that drives this venomous crap.

    It's a show and everyone's invited (either to condemn or be condemned).
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    Feb 22, 2009 3:23 PM GMT
    They will eventually come accept homosexuality, it will just take sometime before it happens. After all look at how long it took them to admit that the earth revolves around the sun. It's not easy to move with the times, when you live your life, based on the facts in an out dated book.
  • OptimusMatt

    Posts: 1124

    Feb 22, 2009 4:12 PM GMT
    Oh please. The pope has recently said that humanity needs 'saving' from homosexuality.

    Fundys are fundys. If you want to believe in God that's fine, more power to you if it actually causes you to think about your place in existence. But the simple fact is that religion in general is used as a method of control and a means to justify hating various groups of people.

    If you're looking for a way to reconcile being gay with being a christian, here's a thought: If being gay truly was a sin than why would God MAKE you this way? I mean, he 'made' everything, and I'm not choosing to be gay. So why would he go out of his way just to fuck you over right from the get-go?

    Then again, if God truly was benevolent why would he make flawed creatures and then punish them when they displayed such flaws? So much for the omniscience I suppose. Or perhaps its just a cruel joke.
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    Feb 22, 2009 4:12 PM GMT
    Your post didn't mention if you're a Christian or not. If you're not, I wouldn't even worry about it. People have the right to believe whatever they want to believe whether it makes sense to the rest of the world or not. The only time when it should matter what a person or group of people want to believe to the rest of the world is when that belief infringes on the human rights of others. Believing homosexuality is a sin and homosexuals are going to Hell is one thing, taking away the jobs(or, in some places, lives) of homosexuals is a whole other thing. Unless your rights are being infringed upon due to a religious belief or you are having internal struggles with what your religion of choice believes, I really wouldn't waste a second worrying about it.
  • SeanTRNJ

    Posts: 46

    Feb 22, 2009 4:18 PM GMT
    I love the fact that they are still using Leviticus against us...

    While Leviticus DOES state clearly that homosexuality is, and I quote, "An Abominataion" it also says that you can stone your wife for dissobeying marriage law and that you can sell your children into slavery if you so choose...

    Oh BTW acording to Leviticus, Shellfish is also an Abomination, I guess that means I'm really in trouble since I'm a big fan of those too...

    Seems to me that they are picking and choosing which parts of their own dogma to hold onto while letting the parts they don't care for slip to the wayside.
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    Feb 22, 2009 4:23 PM GMT
    muscles4muscles saidYour post didn't mention if you're a Christian or not. If you're not, I wouldn't even worry about it. People have the right to believe whatever they want to believe whether it makes sense to the rest of the world or not. The only time when it should matter what a person or group of people want to believe to the rest of the world is when that belief infringes on the human rights of others. Believing homosexuality is a sin and homosexuals are going to Hell is one thing, taking away the jobs(or, in some places, lives) of homosexuals is a whole other thing. Unless your rights are being infringed upon due to a religious belief or you are having internal struggles with what your religion of choice believes, I really wouldn't waste a second worrying about it.


    A big part of the reason that so many states have constitutional amendments banning same sex marriage is because people voted based on religious beliefs. The fact Christianity has a decidedly anti-homosexual viewpoint that very much impacts gays and lesbians. If Christians were just going to church and prayed their little hearts out that gays will go to hell, turn straight or whatever then that would be just ducky with me. The reality is they have taken their belief out into the public square and into politics. By doing so they have opened up their belief for anyone to criticize.

    Update: Edited to clean up the grammar rodeo in my original post.
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    Feb 22, 2009 4:53 PM GMT
    Someone (actually many) have done just that:

    http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibl.htm

    Leviticus, when taken in the proper context, describes a set of rules for Levitical priests, not so much the general public. If orthodox Christians want to narrowly interpret certain passages as an unequivocal condemnation of homosexuality, then they darn well better quit eating shell fish and mixing their fabrics.
  • vj2004t

    Posts: 203

    Feb 22, 2009 5:05 PM GMT
    go to gaychristian.net and you will find the answers. I am a christian but happen to be gay too.icon_biggrin.gif
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    Feb 22, 2009 5:09 PM GMT
    It's been done, but there will always be people of various ideologies .. believers and even non-believers that will find a reason to hate homosexuals. You can observe this in the history of persecution of homosexuals for thousands of years. It has to do with fear and ignorance. As long as those two things are around we will have problems.
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    Feb 22, 2009 7:14 PM GMT
    Many forums on this topic, here. A fun but somewhat pale (to an atheist like me) smackdown was presented in a recent forum by way of this West Wing clip:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWqgD7lGneU

    But the ultimate refute can be provided by you.

    Try this:
    A) God is infallible. The writer of the bible claims that the bible is the word of God. (Pick a bible story: Noah places every animal in an ark, the earth is 6000 years old, the apostle Paul gets tripped up by the same language paradox that Captain Kirk used to defeat Harry Mudd's androids.) The bible is not infallible. Thus it is not the word of God.

    B) God is just. God created everything. God created gay men & women. Gays are just.

    C) The bible is the word of God. God condones slavery, war, capital punishment for victimless infractions (wearing mixed fabrics). God is not just. God's rules are inferior to human's rules, and should be discarded.

    D) Vishnu is God. Vishnu doesn't understand why people worship this warlike, vindictive Hebrew god Yah. Vishnu doesn't care what you wear or who you take for a husband. God is just.

    E) Humans are the only intelligent, sentient species in a space of 100,000 light-years. They are on an island upon which they will live or die depending upon how they conduct their lives. Convincing humans to do the right thing is a matter of survival of our planet. Humans deserve to live, and are just.
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Feb 22, 2009 7:33 PM GMT
    Newsweek, a relatively conservative publication, had this for their DEC 8th cover story and received much potty-mouthing from the right.


    newsweekgaymarriage.jpg
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    Feb 22, 2009 7:48 PM GMT
    If you are looking for the day when the religous community, for lack of a better term, all come together and make a definitive statment that being "gay is ok", I dare say you will be waiting a long time. Even when the evidence is overwhelming these organizations are very slow to fess up and make a change. Galileo and the Catholic Church comes to mind.

    Logic and fact have only a convenient correlation to matters of faith and belief, so intelligence often goes out the window.

    You are better off making your own peace with those groups, IMO.
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    Feb 22, 2009 8:45 PM GMT
    I'm not a biblical scholar and I'm not all that big on religion, but I've always seen that the bible as a document was written and translated by humans, not a god. The only words that I know of having been actually written by "the hand of God" are The Ten Commandments.
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    Feb 22, 2009 9:26 PM GMT
    mickeytopogigio saidD) Vishnu is God. Vishnu doesn't understand why people worship this warlike, vindictive Hebrew god Yah. Vishnu doesn't care what you wear or who you take for a husband. God is just.
    Jesus and Vishnu ..
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    Feb 22, 2009 10:58 PM GMT
    DanielH saidwould just debunk that the God thinks Homosexuality is a sin.

    The one time it's really mention, the verse that is used for so many hate crimes, it's not the word of God. It's part of a List of Hebrew laws that include what not to wear and what not to eat.


    Well, not really correct. Also Romans 1:26-27 suggests same-sex activity.
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    Jun 01, 2009 12:09 PM GMT
    DanielH saidwould just debunk that the God thinks Homosexuality is a sin. . . Not everyone in the religious community can be so dumb.

    Seriously.

    icon_neutral.gif

    Still waiting for someone to say it.

    Homosexuality is not a sin.


    Hypothetically speaking, God is, and 2000 years ago He sent His only begotten Son to save us.

    If that's true, then His top priority isn't allowing you to have happiness on your terms and in your time. If the bible is ultimate truth, then we're guilty of trying to bend what it says to fit our preferences. Can a meteor warp the gravity of a planet? God Himself never zooms in on homosexuality to condemn it. But humanity's tendency to arrange for its own happiness rather than seeking His will is, by itself, destructive enough.
    For that reason, any pursuit of happiness that places God's will second is doomed to failure - whether you're homo or heterosexual is irrelevant to the matter.
    Humanity has utterly tangled itself up in confusion because each of us is looking out for his own best interest rather than following Him. That self-seeking attitude is the lifeblood of everything that separates us from God. Including homosexuality, the desire to move deeper into homosexuality, and even the desire to move away from homosexuality. Again, it's about you and that, that, that is why it's doomed to failure.
    If you're going to follow God, prepare to get naked. Prepare to lose everything. Prepare to surrender. I, in and of myself, am NOT willing to follow God - but I'm willing to be made willing.
    His plan is much bigger than your self-actualization - but with your obedience and trust, is the only path to real joy.

    God, I need to get a life
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    Jun 01, 2009 12:12 PM GMT
    Honestly...NO ONE take offense to this but
    Religion will be the down fall of this planet!! Doesn't matter what religion...
    Just look at the history of our earth...

    Thats my story and Iam sticking to it....
  • rockleetpt

    Posts: 76

    Jun 05, 2009 2:00 AM GMT
    dtothes84 saidHonestly...NO ONE take offense to this but
    Religion will be the down fall of this planet!! Doesn't matter what religion...
    Just look at the history of our earth...

    Thats my story and Iam sticking to it....


    I disagree, I think "WAS" is a more appropriate word. Religion was the downfall of this planet. When science wasn't in charge in describing the world, religion held incredible amount of power, by religion I mean the people in power of the religious social structure. And at the time, religion could say almost everything and people would believe it as truth. Now imagine the pope saying England was a unholy place? Yep people would believe it to be true. Remember the Plague? The Church was quick at explaing it was Gods punishment. What did that achieve? It made assured sadomasochist acts of cleansing were the way to go, weaking and further spreading the plague itself. When doctors at the time resort to garlic and onion as antibacterial and proved itself in fighting the plague. The Church was quick at explaining those warded evil. But it's only natural, it's my guess that the Church and Religion absorbed the lores at the times. Lores produced by ordinary, uneducated and supersticious people.The western church at least proved it's geopolitical influence to obtain more power, wealth and influence. Even if they had to resort "holy" wars.

    Religion also does good in bringing people together (at the cost of demonizing other religious groups) it does good at bringing peace of mind individually and many other things, that's why religion was also incredibly popular. Even if it was a farse I can't believe people digged the church with words alone.

    I'm not a religious person but I would take offense not at the accusation in itself but at the ignorance that message contains.

    In my opinion the downfall of this planet will be individual superstition, ignorance and lack of critical thinking all of these produce fear. More and more great and powerfull organizations are taking advantage of the abundance of those traits to benefit themselves. And I'm not talking about conspiracy theories, I'm taking about superficial thinking and petty accusations regarding politics, advertisement, consumerism and the proness to believe the big corporation is "MUAHAHAHA" evil and green liberals hold ultimate wisdom at almost dogmatic levels.

    Do yourselves a favor read, research and think for yourselves, it is a pain in the ass sometimes but you might save the world in small steps.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 05, 2009 2:10 AM GMT
    Augustine, Thomas Aquinas, and every Church Father since has spilt a good amount of ink on why sodomy is a sin (as this was a pre-sexual identity world).

    The historical church is absolutely steeped in anti-sodomy writings and policies, and they are rooted in the law of the Pentateuch and bible. Sodomy is a sin for much the same reason masturbation is a sin, it spills seed without the possibility of conception. Sodomy was punished in much the same way as masturbation for much of the church's history.

    Then, bam! Suddenly sexual identity hits the Christian world in the 19-20th century and else would the churches react? The same principles which make them praise abstinence and deride condoms guides their policy on newly minted homosexuals. Some Christian Churches have moved away from that, others have not. But you cannot look at historical Christianity to take a position on a recent invention. Oh, it has plenty of positions on acts, but cherry picking laws for homosexuality is just as bad as people who cherry pick them to condemn homosexuality.
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    Jun 05, 2009 2:18 AM GMT
    well, within the religion as it should be, and originally was, its not a sin (jesus' big message was "god is love, everyone deserves god's love, everyone should love one another as we're all within the body of god, its no one's place to judge another." -whenever anyone insisted to jesus that someone or some group were surely outside of god's grace, he firmly corrected them. he never looked down on or judged the whores or lepers; he never told the tax collectors to become dentists).

    however, in actual practice of the religion, which seems to have a lot to do with moralistic nit-picking and obsessively over-emphasizing misinterpreted petty bible passages read out of context (the religion having a looong history of slavish cultivation of shame, guilt, an unhealthy emphasis on the burden of sin, and a squeamish distrust of all sex and carnality, the body, and anyone who is different), it seems that the indoctrinated belief in it being a sin may be here to stay, among priesthood and layfolk alike.






    so you have three options as a gay man:



    "love the religion, hate the religious," (my own personal flash of inspired wittiness, just now) -whereby you be the bigger man and follow the religion's proper tenets of love and unconditional brotherhood with those around you, on your own, with Jesus enthroned in your heart- ignoring the many loud and inflammatory idiots defiling jesus' name daily in their words and hearts by their judgements and bigotries.


    misguidedly cultivate a retaliatory disgust for christianity itself, and shun any self-professed practicing christian you come across. especially if they try to "save you," which you rightly resent. delight in greeting known christians with "hail satan" just to watch their reactions.


    just pick a better religion for yourself- one that doesn't dangle souls over an eternal fiery pit, or include a giant bearded santa god in the clouds with a naughty and nice list, who voyeurs into our lives at all times, especially when we masturbate or insert things into our rectums; a religion that doesn't preach hatred toward anyone else, or judgement- either in its tenets or in the hearts of its adherents; one that respects your personal sovereignty and Will to be yourself, and live in the grace of Deity. Having switched religions, the squawking of obnoxious christians won't bother you any more because nothing they say will have bearing on you- they can only argue validly within the context of their own faith, and so you can simply reply to every jab "sorry, that has no bearing on my own beliefs- its a moot point for me. MY god is pure, unadulterated love. agree to disagree." atheism can tag along on this one too.









    if you hadn't guessed, i took door 3.
    "O Circle of Stars whereof our father is but the younger brother, Marvel beyond imagination, soul of infinite space before whom time is ashamed the mind bewildered and the understanding dark. Not unto thee may we attain unless thy image be Love."
  • Delivis

    Posts: 2332

    Jun 05, 2009 4:57 PM GMT
    Anyone who claims to know what any god thinks is wrong. They are claiming to know the unknowable.

    And if you take the bible, for whatever reason, to decide what is a sin or not then I am afraid homosexuality is clearly a sin. What you should really do is drop any idea you have that the bible has any say on morality whatsoever..