Gay criminal and gay serial killers

  • zakariahzol

    Posts: 2241

    Feb 22, 2009 11:59 AM GMT
    Now that we always discuss the good side of gays. How about moving to the darker side of gay characters and see how bad and disturbing a gay men can be. I have 4 gay people in mind when it come to this .

    1. Cunanan - the serial killer who kill 5 people through out United States including fashion designer Versace.
    2. Jeffry Dahmer - the serial killer that kill African American boys and one Laotian boys , cut the body up, put the head in the refrigerator and dilute the flesh in acid.
    3. Twin brothers Ronald Kray and Reginald Kray- A big time gangster in 50's and 60's London. Killing rival gangster and extotion for money.

    Any more to add in the list?
  • kew1

    Posts: 1595

    Feb 22, 2009 1:07 PM GMT
    I'm not sure but I think http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Nilsen might count. It doesn't say he's gay but he tried to get hold of gay porn in prison (which suggests he might be).He invited them back to his flat for sex, not sure if it took place or he just strangled them.
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    Feb 22, 2009 1:13 PM GMT
    zakariahzol saidNow that we always discuss the good side of gays. How about moving to the darker side of gay characters and see how bad and disturbing a gay men can be.


    You guys discussed the good stuff?

    Damn, must have happened when I took that bathroom break.

    ;-)
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Feb 22, 2009 1:47 PM GMT
    I think I'd rather pass on this discussion. Someone somewhere could say,
    "Lets talk about the dark side of blacks" or "the dark behavior of asians"
    "or women". The only connection these men have are that they are gay.
    Somehow insinuating any other kind of "familial" link is ridiculous.
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    Feb 22, 2009 3:38 PM GMT
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    Feb 22, 2009 3:57 PM GMT
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    Feb 22, 2009 4:29 PM GMT
    jprichva said The insane pressures put on gay men, particularly in earlier generations (like mine, for instance) can and did lead to a lot of very warped behaviors. That some turned out to be murderous behaviors is simply the extreme edge of the bell curve of twistedness.


    I don't think social oppression is the explanation for Dahmer. From a criminal-law standpoint Dahmer looks like a true psychopath who happened to be gay, rather than a gay man who just couldn't take it anymore and chose a highly unusual method of getting back at society.

    Cunanan is also a puzzle. By all accounts he was living the banal life of a SoCal party boy, just like thousands of others, and one day for no apparent reason embarked on a spectacular coast-to-coast killing spree. What "insane pressure" was he under? I don't think there are any facile explanations.
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    Feb 22, 2009 4:38 PM GMT
    Herb Baumeister.......a little known but prolific killer. He lived the American dream. His wife never knew of the victims buried in the back yard
    http://www.crimezzz.net/serialkillers/B/BAUMEISTER_herb.php

    John Wayne Gacy...Denied being gay but all his victims were young males. He lured the boys to his home with gay porn or offers to work in his construction firm. He was a political activist and there is a picture of him posed with President Carter's wife. How weird is that.
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Feb 22, 2009 4:40 PM GMT
    jprichva said


    I'm not sure that's right. The insane pressures put on gay men, particularly in earlier generations (like mine, for instance) can and did lead to a lot of very warped behaviors. That some turned out to be murderous behaviors is simply the extreme edge of the bell curve of twistedness.



    I still hold my view.... I don't think its terribly productive
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    Feb 22, 2009 4:41 PM GMT
    I had to do an essay on capital punishment a while ago, and with that I researched serial killers. My curiosity was peeked and I decided to research gay serial killers.

    I can tell you right now you don't even want to get into this discussion. There were a few sick men out there that did some heinous things to young men.

    John Wayne Gacy is one of the most notorious...He killed over 30 males from as young as 8 to a married man in his 30's, but most were teenagers. He hid all their bodies under his house.

    Then there were the Trash Bag killers who brutalized their victims bodies and murdered them (imagine having a branch shoved through your penis, or your underwear crammed down your throat). The problem with these guys is that no one is sure how many people were killed because their bodies were tossed in garbage bags and picked up by garbage men and unknowingly disposed.

    There a few more but I don't feel the need to get into all of them.Needless to say I have since then become very pro death penalty.

    Lets live on the light side of life and our community. Need to play in the dark.
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    Feb 22, 2009 4:46 PM GMT
    TexDef07 said
    jprichva said The insane pressures put on gay men, particularly in earlier generations (like mine, for instance) can and did lead to a lot of very warped behaviors. That some turned out to be murderous behaviors is simply the extreme edge of the bell curve of twistedness.


    I don't think social oppression is the explanation for Dahmer. From a criminal-law standpoint Dahmer looks like a true psychopath who happened to be gay, rather than a gay man who just couldn't take it anymore and chose a highly unusual method of getting back at society.

    Cunanan is also a puzzle. By all accounts he was living the banal life of a SoCal party boy, just like thousands of others, and one day for no apparent reason embarked on a spectacular coast-to-coast killing spree. What "insane pressure" was he under? I don't think there are any facile explanations.



    There is a movie from 2008 "Fashion Victim" about Cunanan . Johnathon Trent stars as Andrew. The movie is worth watching.
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    Feb 22, 2009 4:55 PM GMT
    zakariahzol saidNow that we always discuss the good side of gays. How about moving to the darker side of gay characters and see how bad and disturbing a gay men can be. I have 4 gay people in mind when it come to this .

    1. Cunanan - the serial killer who kill 5 people through out United States including fashion designer Versace.
    2. Jeffry Dahmer - the serial killer that kill African American boys and one Laotian boys , cut the body up, put the head in the refrigerator and dilute the flesh in acid.
    3. Twin brothers Ronald Kray and Reginald Kray- A big time gangster in 50's and 60's London. Killing rival gangster and extotion for money.

    Any more to add in the list?


    how do you know they were gay? did they rape there victums.
  • calibro

    Posts: 8888

    Feb 22, 2009 5:13 PM GMT
    I think this posting in incredibly disturbing. I don't mind open dialogue, but the merits for this are ludicrous. You say now that we have discussed the good side of gays we can talk about the bad stuff. That logic is appalling to me. In the majority of these cases, these men happened to be gay and murders, they were not murderers who committed crimes because they were gay. I don't see the need to glorify criminals or discuss the brutality of their acts, gay or straight. This isn't current events or pop culture, and you are just starting a disturbing post for doing so. Not that you can't, but I don't think this is what realjock is about. Take it somewhere in my opinion.
  • David0728

    Posts: 34

    Feb 22, 2009 5:17 PM GMT
    Yeah, this post is morbid. It creeped me out just reading it. Scary stuff!
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    Feb 22, 2009 5:31 PM GMT
    I think it's kinda interesting.
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    Feb 22, 2009 6:52 PM GMT
    1 out of three aren't bad.

    Andrew Cunnan was not a serial killer he was a spree killer.
    The Krays weren't serila killers either just was just head of the most natorious crime family in England.

    Jeff first victim was white. He killed him in the family kitchen and kept his remians.
  • Mikeylikesit

    Posts: 1021

    Feb 22, 2009 6:55 PM GMT
    What does Sexual orientation have to do with any of this??.......icon_eek.gif
    Sick people..are ...well....sick!
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    Feb 22, 2009 7:27 PM GMT
    What's useful about this topic is that the average Fred Phelps out in La La Land uses this rare and anecdotal data to persuade weak-minded followers that this sort of thing should be expected of deviants like homosexuals. The lesson: know what people will say about you when something like this comes up, and be ready to list seventy "straight" serial killers.
  • NickoftheNort...

    Posts: 1416

    Feb 22, 2009 7:27 PM GMT
    The "they only happen to be gay" argument against this thread could probably be said about several gay role models as well: they're bad / good people who happen to be gay / lesbian.

    I think an underlying / unstated* objection to the Zakariah's interest is: what purpose does it serve? How does identifying the cruel and malicious within our "family" help or improve us in any way? How does identifying them help our cause against social victimization?

    I think it serves a purpose: it helps us to be aware that being gay / lesbian does not equal White hat membership. There are predators in our "family," whether they contend themselves with taking sexual advantage of closeted teens or go full-on with the murder-necrophilia-cannibalism threesome.

    The guys out there who want to take a cruel advantage of young and semi-insecure / insecure are a detriment to us as a "family." However, they are also a reason to continue de-stimatizing being gay, so that we open for more gay teens to experiment more within their age groups and reduce desperation.

    ***
    The first gay man I met via the Internet was a troll who was (somewhat) determined to be the first guy to fuck me, another was a guy I felt misrepresented himself online, and yet another man raped me. Thankfully, I had also met nice guys along the way and didn't start equating gay with evil or malicious.

    Last summer, one of the bigger names among the younger Conservative members of Parliament here in Norway, Andre Oktay Dahl, came out with his first experience as young gay teen connecting with someone via the Internet. The guy he met had used someone else's pictures, drove him off to someplace he didn't know, and raped him. From the interview I read, this is part of why he seeks to de-stigmatize being gay in Norway.


    * = wrote it before Mickey's post (see, this is the actual problem with longer replies: they take so long that may be outdated by the time they're posted due to new posts)
  • zakariahzol

    Posts: 2241

    Feb 22, 2009 10:51 PM GMT
    For those guy who find this thread disturbing, well you dont have to participate and I sincere apologize . After all those discussion on light, funny and fun material, I thought we do something different and just like I said "walking to the darker side " . I certainly have no intention to say that this disturbing character is a part of gay behaviour (eventhough thea are gay).

    Just try to be creative and different.
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    Feb 22, 2009 11:10 PM GMT
    TexDef07 saidCunanan is also a puzzle. By all accounts he was living the banal life of a SoCal party boy, just like thousands of others, and one day for no apparent reason embarked on a spectacular coast-to-coast killing spree. What "insane pressure" was he under? I don't think there are any facile explanations.

    I agree. I don't think Cunanan was truly a "serial killer". Serial killers motivation for killing is largely based on psychological gratification, methodical, and over extended period of time. It always seemed liked the kid just snapped, and went on a killing spree.

    Actually, this is kind of an interesting read; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Cunanan "Police considered few of the findings to be of note, except ...a fairly extensive collection of the fiction of C.S. Lewis."
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    Feb 23, 2009 1:55 AM GMT
    calibro said I think this posting in incredibly disturbing. I don't mind open dialogue, but the merits for this are ludicrous. You say now that we have discussed the good side of gays we can talk about the bad stuff. That logic is appalling to me.

    I'm a criminal lawyer so I have a professional interest in this topic, morbid though it may be. But in general I think NickoftheNorth is right in his comment above. It's not helpful to be too PC and pretend that all gay people are plaster saints. Like any other demographic we are human beings first. That means within our family you will find the same range of virtues and vices that you find in the rest of humanity. If anything, this demonstrates -- as if any further demonstration were needed -- that there is no valid reason for society to treat us differently.
    Now if you wanted to hear some truly disturbing things I could tell you what I know about the case of Elmer Wayne Henley, Houston's notorious gay serial killer, but it's too soon after dinner.



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    Feb 23, 2009 2:37 AM GMT
    Another aspect is the statistical aspect. On a per capita basis, white men have the highest incidence of being a psychopathic serial killer. Gay serial killers are rare but usually more highlighted and sensationalized by the media simply because of the 'gay' aspect. The same goes for people of color.

    It's also, as previously mentioned, to separate psychopaths from 'gangsters', and spree killers.
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    Feb 23, 2009 2:56 AM GMT

  • zakariahzol

    Posts: 2241

    Feb 23, 2009 11:24 AM GMT
    Ted Bundy do not killed girl he date. He kill innocent girl cycling in the park, entering college domitory and kill girl while they sleep, girl in a carpark even girls walking in on the street. Of course, he is straight and not the stuff we are discussing here.

    For bgcat comment that white men are more likely to be a serial killer. Well , I can tell you here in Asia we have our share of this disturbing character like Charles Sorbaj (of Indian/Vietnamese descent) who kill backpackers in Thailand, Nepal and other Asian countries, and Iranian guy who kill many prostitute. However , I have not come across a gay serial killers yet(probably I could be the first ...ha ha just kidding).