Leaders Around The World Incensed Over Trump’s recognizing Jerusalem as capital of Israel

  • metta

    Posts: 42957

    Dec 06, 2017 5:13 PM GMT
    Leaders Around The World Incensed Over Trump’s recognizing Jerusalem as capital of Israel




    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/world-leaders-react-trump-jerusalem_us_5a27b12ae4b044d16725dd3e
  • topathlete

    Posts: 1087

    Dec 06, 2017 5:20 PM GMT
    5 Reasons To Move The US Embassy In Israel To Jerusalem

    http://www.dailywire.com/news/12183/5-reasons-move-us-embassy-israel-jerusalem-michael-qazvini
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 20587

    Dec 06, 2017 5:24 PM GMT
    Once again our President does what is right, not what "other leaders around the world" want him to do. They'll get over it.
  • topathlete

    Posts: 1087

    Dec 06, 2017 5:37 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ saidOnce again our President does what is right, not what "other leaders around the world" want him to do. They'll get over it.

    Most of them just like the American radical far left are anti-Israel.
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    Dec 06, 2017 7:27 PM GMT
    Yeah, I'm sure right-wing leaders like Angela Merkel are in hock to the American "far-left". icon_rolleyes.gif

    The reason 192 countries out of 194 don't recognise Jerusalem as Israel's capital, or even as part of Israel, is because it was conquered by force - West Jerusalem in 1948, and East Jerusalem (determined by the World Court in 2004 to be part of the 'Occupied Palestinian Territory') in 1967. Under international law, it is "inadmissible" for a state to acquire territory through war. Not to mention the obvious point that had it really belonged to the Jews, they wouldn't have had to conquer it by force in the first place...

    The recognition in any case is strictly bilateral and as such virtually meaningless. Israel exercised not an atom sovereignty in Jerusalem yesterday, and exercises not an atom of sovereignty in Jerusalem today. The PLO has just declared that the US has "given up" its role in the peace process. If so, that would be a propitious (and long-overdue), portent for peace.
  • musclmed

    Posts: 3591

    Dec 06, 2017 7:36 PM GMT
    Israel's capital has always been Jerusalem.

    Peace cannot happen until the elephant in the room is addressed. Many islamic countries dont recognize israel and will not no matter what. Despite land, money and aid missiles and terrorist continue.
  • PennsyGuy

    Posts: 1109

    Dec 06, 2017 7:39 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ saidOnce again our President does what is right, not what "other leaders around the world" want him to do. They'll get over it.


    That's right.
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    Dec 06, 2017 7:39 PM GMT
    Trump is probably looking for a quick way to scupper Kushner's peace talks, so that he can let him go before he gets indicted. I mean, why did he wait until Day 319? Wasn't recognizing Jerusalem another of his 'on Day One' pledges?
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    Dec 06, 2017 7:47 PM GMT
    musclehead saidIsrael's capital has always been Jerusalem.

    Peace cannot happen until the elephant in the room is addressed. Many islamic countries dont recognize israel and will not no matter what. Despite land, money and aid missiles and terrorist continue.

    That's the Netanyahu-Trump line, but as explained it has no basis in international law, and means nothing. Trump's statement sounds historic, but it's not the beginning of a trend. 192 out of 194 countries will continue to recognise Tel Aviv as Israel's capital until 2020, when the number will most likely revert back to 193.
  • musclmed

    Posts: 3591

    Dec 06, 2017 10:08 PM GMT
    JTheM said
    musclehead saidIsrael's capital has always been Jerusalem.

    Peace cannot happen until the elephant in the room is addressed. Many islamic countries dont recognize israel and will not no matter what. Despite land, money and aid missiles and terrorist continue.

    That's the Netanyahu-Trump line, but as explained it has no basis in international law, and means nothing. Trump's statement sounds historic, but it's not the beginning of a trend. 192 out of 194 countries will continue to recognise Tel Aviv as Israel's capital until 2020, when the number will most likely revert back to 193.


    I wont change your name to mock you. Shows how naive and classless you are.
    International law does not dictate where a capital is. And International law doesn't dictate where the US puts its embassy either.
    In 1995 Congress passed a resolution stating that it should be US foreign policy that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel.
    In June of 2017, congress passed.
    Commemorating the 50th anniversary of the reunification of Jerusalem.

    It passed 90 to 0. https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/senate-resolution/176/text/is?format=xml&overview=closed

    It re affirmed the 1995 vote, stating its the capital. Presidents up until now have "waived" it. Trump decided it had not lead to anything .

    Ironic how a Brit cites international law and land obtained through war. Even in the modern error "Falkland islands"
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 4933

    Dec 06, 2017 11:30 PM GMT
    What's funny is someone who just a few years ago thought that the UN was a legislature passing international law is still speaking about it out of total ignorance.

    Never mind said person's saying what he thinks is more important than international law when it doesn't agree with him:

    Amnesty International: Rocket and mortar attacks by Palestinian armed groups is unlawful and deadly
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4030802

    Hamas war crime: using Gazans as human shields
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/1736068

    Indeed, he's opined that Arab terrorists have "every right to kill" Jewish civilians.

    Terrorist Palestinians Carrying Out The Tel Aviv Terror Attack
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4221160

    And look and this insanity:

    17-year old Palestinian Arab terrorist, incited by PA leaders, slits throat of 13-year old American girl sleeping in her bed.
    Trolls: there are "Reasons", The Child's Bedroom Is A "War Zone", Parents

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4227381

    It's little wonder that other RJers call him the AyaTrollah (or as I put it, AyaTrolLiar).
    Or that Aristo/Shark/speare described him as "an all around shitty excuse for a human being".
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 4933

    Dec 06, 2017 11:35 PM GMT
    For the history buffs, note that we are 3-days shy of the 100th anniversary of Jerusalem's liberation from the Ottoman/German/Arab occupation.

    In the picture below, the Arab mayor (wearing a Turkish Fez in middle) surrenders the city.
    Jerusalem then had a Jewish majority, but Jews were barred from holding such political office.

    Jer+surrender.jpg

    1917-daily-sketch-page-3-reporting-gener

    first_world_war_single_ad-500-614.jpg.9e

    Jewish Jerusalem, 1915. Note the synagogue at top right.
    jerusalem-quartier-juif-1915-et-synagoge

    Jewish Jerusalem, 1920s
    639px-Jewish_Quarter_from_Temple_Mount.j

    After its illegal seizure by Trans/Jordan in 1948, this became known as "eastern Jerusalem" (or, after the expulsion of the Jews, so-called "Arab East Jerusalem").

    Jerusalem
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/887747

    Jerusalem Was NEVER An Arab Capital, Not Even Of Jund Filastin ~1,000 Years Ago, A Military District Of Foreign Arab Empires That Occupied Israel (Spain Was Occupied For Longer, And More Recently)
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4222798

    Jerusalem: Parts of Western Wall, ancient Roman theater uncovered
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4337010

    Seals from Judean Kingdom Period Shed Light on Life in Ancient Jerusalem
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4328713
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    Dec 07, 2017 1:45 AM GMT
    musclehead said
    JTheM said
    musclehead saidIsrael's capital has always been Jerusalem.

    Peace cannot happen until the elephant in the room is addressed. Many islamic countries dont recognize israel and will not no matter what. Despite land, money and aid missiles and terrorist continue.

    That's the Netanyahu-Trump line, but as explained it has no basis in international law, and means nothing. Trump's statement sounds historic, but it's not the beginning of a trend. 192 out of 194 countries will continue to recognise Tel Aviv as Israel's capital until 2020, when the number will most likely revert back to 193.


    I wont change your name to mock you. Shows how naive and classless you are.
    International law does not dictate where a capital is. And International law doesn't dictate where the US puts its embassy either.
    In 1995 Congress passed a resolution stating that it should be US foreign policy that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel.
    In June of 2017, congress passed.
    Commemorating the 50th anniversary of the reunification of Jerusalem.

    It passed 90 to 0. https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/senate-resolution/176/text/is?format=xml&overview=closed

    It re affirmed the 1995 vote, stating its the capital. Presidents up until now have "waived" it. Trump decided it had not lead to anything .

    Ironic how a Brit cites international law and land obtained through war. Even in the modern error "Falkland islands"

    You're citing domestic American law, which is meaningless to the status of Jerusalem or anywhere else. And you're clueless to boot - international law (the law that matters) absolutely dictates where where a country's capital should be - WITHIN the sovereign territory of the state in question.

    Calling you a musclehead is hardly "naïve" btw. Your profile pic and intellectual output (for example dimly supposing I support the maintenance of British colonial outposts because I'm a Brit) more than suffice to confirm the observation.
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    Dec 07, 2017 1:52 AM GMT
    Aspergers-Retarded Leeron saidWhat's funny is someone who just a few years ago thought that the UN was a legislature passing international law is still speaking about it out of total ignorance.

    No surprise that the idiot making the charge above (absent evidence of course) thinks international law is the purview of Amnesty International, 90% of whose stances on Israel-Palestine he rejects as an anti-Semitic conspiracy (by contrast, I probably reject less than the 10% he accepts)...

    Aspergers-Retarded Leeron saidIt's little wonder that other RJers call him the AyaTrollah (or as I put it, AyaTrolLiar)

    Yeah, one guy - who ARL took a liking to because he referred to Muslims as "moon-worshipping" "barbarians". What next, David Duke doesn't like me? icon_rolleyes.gif

    Aspergers-Retarded Leeron saidthe 100th anniversary of Jerusalem's liberation from the Ottoman/German/Arab occupation.

    Anyone surprised to see an Israeli commemorating the British Empire (the most bloodthirsty world power of the age) expanding its reach into the Middle East in 1917?

    Who, pray tell, considered themselves "liberated"?

    What next - celebrating the French "liberation" of Algeria from "Arab occupation" in the 19th Century? These are just meaningless (if ugly) platitudes, and he knows it.

    Aspergers-Retarded Leeron saidJerusalem then had a Jewish majority

    Not really. And certainly not an "ethnic" majority (i.e. a rival national claim) in the historic city or in the Ottoman and Mandate Jerusalem districts.

    What there was instead was a religious plurality of mostly alms-dependent immigrants facilitated into Jerusalem by European colonialists (with no objection from those terrible 'anti-Semitic' Turks) who spoke Arabic and opposed Zionism. Consider that more than a quarter century (at least) into the Zionist colonisation of Palestine, Palestinians still outnumbered Jews by over 30% in Jerusalem. Some Jewish legacy in the city.

    Aspergers Retarded Leeron saidAfter its illegal seizure by Trans/Jordan in 1948, this became known as "eastern Jerusalem" (or, after the expulsion of the Jews, so-called "Arab East Jerusalem").

    I just call it Jerusalem, because that's exactly what it is.
    And the Israeli seizure of the West was equally illegal, indeed recognised by fewer governments.

    Jerusalem was allotted to neither side in the 1947 partition plan, but was attacked by the Jewish terror groups (what became the modern IDF) a few days before the end of the Mandate, prompting the Arab Legion to move to the defence of the Old City. Though it made no attempts to capture areas assigned to the Jewish state (honouring a plan to carve up the prospective Palestinian state with the Jews), it defeated the Zionist forces in battle after battle - not just in Jerusalem but in Latrun (three times) and in Ramallah too - eventually liberating the Ottoman "Jewish" Quarter from the Haganah militia, to the gratitude of the residents who despised it.

    Were there a few minor expulsions of Jews here and there in historic Palestine? Yes, but only after half a year and more of Zionist ethnic cleansing that had expelled hundreds of thousands of native Palestinians from the land they owned. The small Arab reprisal actions were retaliatory.

    The fact is that had the territorial status of Jerusalem been respected as a 'corpus separatum', it would have reverted back to Arab control after the planned referendum in ten years time. The area it incorporated boasted a solid Arab majority.
  • Covfefe

    Posts: 57

    Dec 07, 2017 4:02 AM GMT
    The Congress in the United States is overwhelmingly supportive of Israel brutal occupation. Congress is Israeli occupied territory. It's hard to think of another example in history where such a small country, Israel, has had such influence over a great power like the US.
  • Covfefe

    Posts: 57

    Dec 07, 2017 4:27 AM GMT
    The Politics of Jerusalem Since 1967 by Michael Dumper

    According to Michael Dumper, the Christian Palestinians were majority in the West of Jerusalem.
    3507x2s.png
    2e4yhbm.png
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 20587

    Dec 07, 2017 4:42 AM GMT
    metta saidLeaders Around The World Incensed Over Trump’s recognizing Jerusalem as capital of Israel


    Someone explain to me WHY anyone but Israel should have a say in where their capital is? They all will get over it. Why? Because they will have to.
  • Covfefe

    Posts: 57

    Dec 07, 2017 5:02 AM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    metta saidLeaders Around The World Incensed Over Trump’s recognizing Jerusalem as capital of Israel


    Someone explain to me WHY anyone but Israel should have a say in where their capital is? They all will get over it. Why? Because they will have to.


    Jerusalem was supposed to be an international city for both people in the 1947 UN partition plan, but today Jerusalem is divided into two areas West and East. East Jerusalem (including the old city of Jerusalem) is part of the occupied Palestine... The boundaries are defined by the 1967 borders, which correspond with the Green Line. That is why the world and the Palestinians are upset. West of Jerusalem is part of Israel.

    Map:
    map4.jpg
    That light blue shaded are Israeli illegal settlements.
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    Dec 07, 2017 6:36 AM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    metta saidLeaders Around The World Incensed Over Trump’s recognizing Jerusalem as capital of Israel


    Someone explain to me WHY anyone but Israel should have a say in where their capital is? They all will get over it. Why? Because they will have to.

    If you'd bothered to read the thread before ignorantly blurting out your incredulity you'd know countries do not have the right to declare their capital on land that is not recognised as their sovereign territory. This is a contested, divided city, much of which is under military occupation.

    The problem for the U.S. is that world leaders will, and already have, taken Trump at his word.
    America vacated its role in the peace process today. There's not the remotest prospect that this country, let alone this President, will be acceptable to the Palestinians for one moment longer.

    The exciting question now - actually an opportunity, which genuine advocates of peace will welcome - is what country/countries are best positioned to take its place?
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 4933

    Dec 07, 2017 8:34 AM GMT
    LOL. As usual, I address the topic and reference other discussions, and the AyaTrolLiar JTheM spends paragraphs and hours seeking to re-discuss what is in those threads, regurgitating his propaganda here where it hasn't yet been discredited.

    AyaTrolLiar> thinks international law is the purview of Amnesty International

    A1. Of course I never said so. I reasoned through why certain actions are illegal, quoting from international treaties, and confirming that AI agreed with me. In contrast, the AyaTrolLiar - that "all around shitty excuse for a human being" - blathered that civilians are legitimate targets, including children. (Edit: He also sees nothing wrong with Hizbullah recruiting 16 year olds in Lebanon and shipping them off, with little training, to die as canon fodder in Syria - while allegedly holding back their elite troops to be ready to attack Israel.)


    AyaTrolLiar> Anyone surprised to see an Israeli commemorating the British Empire (the most bloodthirsty world power of the age) expanding its reach into the Middle East in 1917?

    A2. Never one for consistency, when it was the so-called "Great Arab Revolt" helping the British... he boasted of their (minimal) accomplishments.

    The Great Arab Revolt that Wasn't
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4289450

    A3. When I pointed out that there were 300,000 Arabs in the Ottoman Army - including the Arabs of what became Mandate Palestine, he sought to put them in the British camp so as to be worthy recipients of British "promises" had they fought on their side (rather than against them).

    Promises, Promises: The McMahon Correspondence
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4284722

    A4. Of course, what happened after WW I was the principle of self-determination, with the British serving as a (temporary) mandatory power (custodians) of a mandate (trust territory). But don't anyone interrupt the flunky's meanderings with historical fact.


    After its illegal seizure by Trans/Jordan in 1948, this became known as "eastern Jerusalem" (or, after the expulsion of the Jews, so-called "Arab East Jerusalem").

    A5. In the picture [above], the Arab mayor (wearing a Turkish Fez in middle) surrenders the city.
    Jerusalem then had a Jewish majority, but Jews were barred from holding such political office.


    AyaTrolLiar> certainly not an "ethnic" majority
    AyaTrolLiar> a religious plurality

    A6a. In 1896 Jews constituted 28,112 of 45,420. That's 62%, a majority.

    A6b. The 1905 Ottoman census only counted citizens, and most Jews - dhimmis - thus didn't count.
    Still there were 13,300 out of 32,400 - 41%.
    How many Jews weren't counted?
    The total population dropped by 13,020.
    The Jewish population dropped by 14,812.
    So already we see a close correlation.
    Even if we take the lower figure of 13K (vs nearly 15K), we get 58%.
    With the higher figure, we get 60%.

    A6c. In 1922, we have a good British Census.
    Jews accounted for 33,971 of 62,578 = 54%

    A6d. By now only a flunky idiot would be trying to twist things to make it appear that Jews during these decades weren't the majority population in Jerusalem. In 1944, on the eve of the partition, Jews accounted for 62% of the population.


    AyaTrolLiar> Some Jewish legacy in the city.

    A7. In a city that just celebrated 3,000 years, the flunky idiot thinks a "legacy" is about his twisted version of events in "a quarter century".


    Then start the lies about 1947-48, which of course he dare not post in the proper thread:

    1947-1948: Arabs reject compromise and attack Israel
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/960691
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 4933

    Dec 07, 2017 8:42 AM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    Someone explain to me WHY anyone but Israel should have a say in where their capital is? They all will get over it. Why? Because they will have to.

    As noted, Jerusalem is in fact Israel's political capital. Has been for 70 years.
    (And, of course, the Jewish capital for thousands of years beforehand.)


    Covfefe> Today Jerusalem is divided into two areas West and East.

    C1. Jerusalem was only divided from 1948 until it was unified in 1967.


    Covfefe> Jerusalem was supposed to be an international city for both people in the 1947 UN partition plan

    C2. A basic misunderstanding of the 1947 UN partition compromise, which kept all of western Mandate Palestine for everyone. All could remain where they were if they so chose. While it envisioned an Arab state and a Jewish state, members of each group on the "wrong" side of the partition could stay in their homes.

    C3. Jerusalem, despite the city's Jewish majority, was gerrymandered into a larger district with an Arab majority.


    Covfefe> East Jerusalem (including the old city of Jerusalem) is part of the occupied Palestine

    C4. When and how did eastern Jerusalem - that's the part illegally seized by Trans/Jordan in 1948, which includes the ancient Jewish Quarter - become "Palestine"?

    C5. Was eastern Jerusalem also "occupied Palestine" from 1948-1967?

    C6. Why isn't it "occupied Corpus Separatum"?


    Covfefe> West of Jerusalem is part of Israel.

    C7. So what's the problem moving the American embassy to Israel's capital in western Jerusalem which "is part of Israel"?


    Covfefe> The Congress in the United States is overwhelmingly supportive of Israel.... Congress is Israeli occupied territory.

    C8. Cute but vapid sloganeering. Congress overwhelmingly supports Israel because the American people overwhelmingly support Israel. Congress would be "occupied" (by Jew-haters posing as being anti-Israel) if it didn't support Israel.

    Gallup: Israel Maintains Positive Image in U.S.: 71% (61% amongst Democrats, 70% independents). 76% (70% Democarats) agree "Israel is an important ally to the United States"
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4291625

    See also:

    Jewish Villages ["Settlements"] in Judea & Samaria are NOT "illegal" and NOT an Impediment to Peace
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4255395
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 17394

    Dec 07, 2017 12:59 PM GMT
    Covfefe said
    CuriousJockAZ said
    metta saidLeaders Around The World Incensed Over Trump’s recognizing Jerusalem as capital of Israel


    Someone explain to me WHY anyone but Israel should have a say in where their capital is? They all will get over it. Why? Because they will have to.


    Jerusalem was supposed to be an international city for both people in the 1947 UN partition plan, but today Jerusalem is divided into two areas West and East. East Jerusalem (including the old city of Jerusalem) is part of the occupied Palestine... The boundaries are defined by the 1967 borders, which correspond with the Green Line. That is why the world and the Palestinians are upset. West of Jerusalem is part of Israel.

    Map:
    map4.jpg
    That light blue shaded are Israeli illegal settlements.
    The United Nations was dead wrong for dividing Jerusalem in the first place and they really fucked up by erroneously putting the old city into East Jerusalem rather than in West Jerusalem where it logically and rightfully belongs. The international city proposal would have worked if the UN established its world headquarters in Jerusalem rather than in the city that didnt deserve it, New York City. But that is water under the bridge and you cannot change historical events. Jerusalem needs to remain permanently undivided and officially recognized as Israel's national capital city. However, Israel can have all of Jerusalem they must be compelled to withdraw from all the other occupied territories in exchange for the eastern side of Jerusalem.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 07, 2017 4:40 PM GMT
    israeljoso8.jpg


    SEC. 3. TIMETABLE.

    (a) STATEMENT OF THE POLICY OF THE UNITED STATES
    (1) Jerusalem should remain an undivided city in which
    the rights of every ethnic and religious group are protected;
    (2) Jerusalem should be recognized as the capital of the
    State of Israel; and
    (3) the United States Embassy in Israel should be estab-
    lished in Jerusalem no later than May 31, 1999.

    https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-104publ45/pdf/PLAW-104publ45.pdf
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 4933

    Dec 07, 2017 5:48 PM GMT
    RoadBikeRob> The United Nations was dead wrong for dividing Jerusalem in the first place and they really fucked up by erroneously putting the old city into East Jerusalem rather than in West Jerusalem where it logically and rightfully belongs.

    The UN didn't partition the city. The Arabs did, after violently rejecting the UN partition compromise and attacking the Jews.

    1947-1948: Arabs reject compromise and attack Israel
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/960691


    RoadBikeRob> Jerusalem needs to remain permanently undivided and officially recognized as Israel's national capital city.

    Amen.


    RoadBikeRob> However, Israel can have all of Jerusalem they must be compelled to withdraw from all the other occupied territories in exchange for the eastern side of Jerusalem.

    So because you believe Israel should get what should have been its in the first place, it must automatically withdraw from everywhere else? Including Hebron, Gush Etzion and Ariel? And you would uproot hundreds of thousands of Jews to establish such a "peace"?

    The solution isn't much different and goes back to the Clinton Parameters: Whats Arab to the Arabs, what's Jewish to the Jews.

    Thus Arab neighborhoods of eastern Jerusalem (e.g. Abu Dis) can go to a Palestinian Arab state, they can call it "Al Quds" and make it their capital if they wish. (Though note that Jerusalem never served as an Arab capital.)

    Ironically, many Arabs in those areas have sought Israeli citizenship so if that happens, they can leave their homes and neighborhoods to move elsewhere in Israel.

    Likewise many Arabs just on the Israeli side of the 1949 Armistice line dread being ceded to the Palestinian state, seeking to remain in "apartheid" Israel where life is and will remain much better. In Um el Fahm, 90% wanted their city to stay in Israel.


    Let's talk peace: The two-state solution
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4180210
  • Plooje

    Posts: 1387

    Dec 07, 2017 5:54 PM GMT
    Top Democrats Back U.S. Embassy Move To Jerusalem

    These top Democrat Senators voted in June of this year for the reaffirmation of the 1995 Jerusalem Embassy Relocation Act which was co-sponsored by Cory Booker (NJ):

    Dianne Feinstein (CA), Richard Blumenthal (CT) and Dick Durbin (IL)

    Also, Chuck Schumer (NY), had called on Trump to “show the world that the US definitively acknowledges Jerusalem as Israel’s capital.”

    Yesterday, President Trump did.

    https://nypost.com/2017/12/06/democratic-nay-sayers-on-trumps-jerusalem-move-are-outright-hypocrites/