Testosterone Replacement Therapy

  • blasko1992

    Posts: 16

    Dec 18, 2017 1:07 AM GMT
    So I have been reading a lot of articles online relating to the fact men's testosterone levels over time, since the 1950's at least, have been in decline.

    I do not have sources to actually fact-check the assertions I've read, but I have asked a few friends who say they've heard the same thing.

    Due to the so-called decline in regular male testosterone development and subsequent health benefits associated with achieving a 'regular' level of testosterone body regulation, men are turning to either (a) purchasing anabolic steroids to increase their levels or (b) I have only read but am unsure of this: starting estrone replacement therapy, prescribed by their doctor.

    I am in Canada. But I am interested from those in the States too, do you know anyone who's doctor prescribes them testosterone? I am hoping now to ask my doctor for a testosterone test to see what my levels are... but it seems fruitless if the result is I am considered low-moderate yet cannot get legally prescribed the solution.

    Thoughts? Experiences? Stories?
    Thanks men!
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    Dec 18, 2017 4:08 PM GMT
    Quick questions: Do desire sexual activities? Are you able to get hard? Can you stay hard long enough to orgasm?
  • blasko1992

    Posts: 16

    Dec 18, 2017 9:44 PM GMT
    jimib saidQuick questions: Do desire sexual activities? Are you able to get hard? Can you stay hard long enough to orgasm?


    Is there a related reason you are asking? lol. My post is not about sex at all...
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    Dec 19, 2017 3:26 PM GMT
    In the US there are doctors who specialize in male HRT.

    Typically family practice docs are not too familiar with it and may hesitate in prescribing.

    HRT can consist of Testosterone Cypionate injections and an estrogen suppressant such as Anastrozole.
    The doc will request you get blood tests occasionally to monitor the levels.
  • MuscledHorse

    Posts: 103

    Dec 19, 2017 4:01 PM GMT
    OP, what you have read is correct and can be found in multiple scientific sources on fertility (search PubMed some time). Some have attributed it to the excessive amounts of hormones in our foods.. . As for HRT, it is handled in the USA by measuring your test and active test levels (these are 2 different things) and dosing a supplement accordingly.
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    Dec 19, 2017 5:15 PM GMT
    Low testosterone can be associated with male weight gain, loss of muscle mass, fatigue, and bone porosity. It's not all about sexual drive or potency.

    When my own testosterone began dropping as I turned 60, a not uncommon occurrence due to aging, my doctor prescribed topical applications. It was burdensome (the timing of the regimine must be correct), smelly and messy. Also expensive. Worse, it did very little to raise my hormone level, as happens with some men. The alternative was injections in the doctor's office, even more expensive and inconvenient.

    Shortly afterwards I was diagnosed with prostate cancer, and now the hormone approach had to be reversed 180 degrees. Testosterone accelerates prostate cancer growth, and so I was given injections to suppress it. The resulting male menopause side effects were tougher than the rest of my (successful) cancer treatment.

    Today without the suppression therapy my testosterone has returned to low-normal. Given my cancer history there'll be no attempts to increase it. Therefore I have trouble losing weight, maintaining muscle mass, and must watch for osteoporosis.
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    Dec 20, 2017 6:09 AM GMT
    I have measured my testosterone levels since I was 18 because at the time I could just add more bloodworks in my doctor's prescription without him knowing. Moreover, unlike most labs in Canada, that lab in Brazil provided me with a consolidated view of all my previous results in a graph. From almost 15 years of tracking my testosterone I can say that (1) my testosterone has always been normal for my age in spite of a diet full of soy in my early 20s (2) my testosterone has been slowly but surely declining year after year since I was around 21.

    You still need to explain why do you think you need TRT at the tender age of 25.
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    Dec 21, 2017 12:55 AM GMT
    blasko1992 said
    jimib saidQuick questions: Do desire sexual activities? Are you able to get hard? Can you stay hard long enough to orgasm?


    Is there a related reason you are asking? lol. My post is not about sex at all...


    No I'm not asking about sex. If you answer yes to those questions you probably have enough testosterone. If you answer no you probably have low testosterone.
  • blasko1992

    Posts: 16

    Dec 23, 2017 8:27 PM GMT
    Muskelprotz saidIn the US there are doctors who specialize in male HRT.

    Typically family practice docs are not too familiar with it and may hesitate in prescribing.

    HRT can consist of Testosterone Cypionate injections and an estrogen suppressant such as Anastrozole.
    The doc will request you get blood tests occasionally to monitor the levels.


    WOW! Thank you SO much! I have an appointment with my doctor to discuss this in 2 weeks. Really informative man, appreciate it. Respect.
  • blasko1992

    Posts: 16

    Dec 23, 2017 8:34 PM GMT
    bachian saidI have measured my testosterone levels since I was 18 because at the time I could just add more bloodworks in my doctor's prescription without him knowing. Moreover, unlike most labs in Canada, that lab in Brazil provided me with a consolidated view of all my previous results in a graph. From almost 15 years of tracking my testosterone I can say that (1) my testosterone has always been normal for my age in spite of a diet full of soy in my early 20s (2) my testosterone has been slowly but surely declining year after year since I was around 21.

    You still need to explain why do you think you need TRT at the tender age of 25.


    Thanks for the response man. And on my age: Well if my levels are low or even moderate but could be improved by TRT, I want to get on top of it (especially if my insurance covers it) so I can lead a more healthy life which includes body building and getting the best results and I’ve read it makes you horny as hell - not that that’s a reason at all to do it lol. Although admittantly, I would never complain to have a higher libido :p
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    Dec 23, 2017 11:36 PM GMT
    ^
    Doing TRT won't benefit you as much as you think for muscle building, even if you stay at the top of the range.

    Even if you were to use testosterone as steroid users commonly use it -- meaning you could bump your testosterone to up to 10x the normal range, far more than TRT levels -- you would still not see dramatic results for the simple fact that testosterone is not very anabolic compared to other popular AAS. In fact, a test only cycle is considered by steroid users to be a newbie one.

    I think if we call a spade a spade what you really mean is that you want to do steroids.
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    Dec 24, 2017 2:55 PM GMT
    blasko1992 said
    jimib said
    Quick questions: Do desire sexual activities? Are you able to get hard? Can you stay hard long enough to orgasm?

    Is there a related reason you are asking? lol. My post is not about sex at all...

    Testosterone can in fact affect male sex drive and performance. Although your OP did not mention sex, many men realize that connection. The point in my reply is that there are other reasons for maintaining a normal testosterone level. And that's why my doctor wanted to raise my level, until the diagnosis of prostate cancer.
  • carew28

    Posts: 849

    Dec 24, 2017 8:18 PM GMT
    My ability to get an erection & have an orgasm has been slowly declining ever since I turned 60, which was 5 years ago. I miss my youthful vigor, but I think it's a normal part of aging, and it's something that all men, sooner or later, have to deal with. I have no intention of ever taking testosterone supplements, due to the side effects. Every so often , it crosses my mind to possibly talk to a doctor about getting a prescription for viagra or cialis, but so far I haven't done anything.
  • MikeHunt26

    Posts: 33

    Dec 25, 2017 8:26 PM GMT
    I am on TRT.

    I have been for a few years now. I went to several endos, GPs, etc. and eventually was able to begin injections. I do not trust doctors whatsoever. Everything they told me was a waste of time, and every avenue they went down was a waste of resources, until the end result: once a week injections, 120~ mg test cyp a week.

    The reason for my low T is unknown. I do not wish to go into it because nobody figured it out. I also have to take thyroid supplements. My hormones have been a disaster since I was born. I was having severe migraines until I fixed my thyroid, also. Now I weigh 100 pounds more than I did 5 years ago (healthy weight). There was a lot going on.

    Now, back to TRT... The reason I say all 5 or 6 of my doctors wasted my time is because I knew what regimen I needed before my first doctor's visit. I went because of general lethargy, apathy, and erectile dysfunction. Also, I took the supplement DHEA (purchased at local drugstore) and it made me feel like I was on this incredible, euphoric high. I had never experienced it before, and it didn't feel like a drug. It felt natural, like this was what life was supposed to feel like. I even grew a mustache because of it. Sadly, it stopped working, but I went and got my bloodwork done, etc. and had low T.

    But I do say that the doctors were a waste of time because they all have f*cked me around, and one of them I'm almost positive was just trying to get me to keep coming back, because he was trying to get me to do 400 mg of test every two weeks, when the half-life ensures that it will be completely gone by the 2nd week no matter how much you put in... He apparently didn't know what a "half-life" was, and was "confused" when I would come back every two weeks and there was "no change"(because it was all gone by then)... Made me come to do my own injections in the office, each injection cost $40 when the whole bottle costs $40 if he had let me do it myself...They said "money wasn't important to them;" well, it's pretty important to me. Every doctor was a quack. It was a pain in the ass. None of my doctors thought TRT patients need to monitor their estrogen, either, even when I went in with symptoms of elevated estrogen (itchy nipples, symptoms of high blood pressure, sweating profusely during the night). I literally knew what I needed to do before I started that long 2 years of doctor's visits... it just took 2 years of "trial-and-error" (mostly error on the doctors' part) for me to get there.

    Now, for what TRT does. It's hard to say exactly, but my life has changed significantly (maybe because it took so long to get it dialed in, that my life in general passed me by). But I am a completely different person than I was when I was younger. Conversations are smoother and I feel like I have "energy" to use and expend at my command, would be the only difference I can note.

    Except for one other major difference - my sex drive. There are distinct differences between how I feel when I inject 60mg, and when I inject 120 mg.

    60 mg has me wanting to study and use my brain.

    120 mg has me wanting to lay down in a hotel room and take dick from as many guys as I can (read my other topics where I tell the stories of my doing this).

    It's all very subtle. There's never a moment where you think "I can feel the testosterone!" or "The testosterone is causing this." It's all happening naturally, and really takes concentration to pick up on the coinciding events down the timeline.

    EDIT: Okay, I will say one more thing... I did do steroids one time because as I am injecting for TRT already, I might as well go a step further. I injected 600mg a week, and used aromatase inhibitors (which block production of estrogen). I don't really remember those weeks, but I was basically on auto-pilot. I didn't feel very many emotions, although I did get fairly angry twice (didn't blow up, but really stood up for myself when I needed to). I would not say quality of life was necessarily enhanced - it was just different. My veins on my biceps basically stuck out of the skin, and you can still see them. My nurses have always told me I have hard veins to find, but ever since I did that steroid cycle, I have gotten comments saying I have "easy veins." icon_lol.gif

    I also had bad acne on my shoulders and back after I stopped. It's normal for that to happen, but it bothered me enough to where I got on accutane to get rid of it. Being on accutane is a nightmare, but it really works to clear up acne.

    One more thing - when I was on the cycle, my dick would be rock solid just from a gust of wind. I was incredibly horny, and did not want to bottom at all (I wonder if estrogen has anything to do with that, because normally I like to bottom when I'm taking TRT dose, but on steroids I wanted to top everyone).

    My dick was not hard just walking around, but anytime I needed it, or even thought I might need it, it was suddenly there sticking out of my trousers. I will be honest - I topped at least 20 guys during my steroid cycle. I went to my friend's in the city and he said it was going to be a while, so I found a bottom before he got home. I found another bottom later that night, and another on the way home the next day. I would go on breaks at work and top guys in the surrounding areas. Professionals would be in hotel rooms and invite me over and I would be hard before my clothes even came off. I remember one guy told me, "I liked seeing you hard as you walked through the door."

    Sometimes my sex drive can be a problem. There are days where I wish I didn't have such an overwhelming desire to have sex, but I kind of like it. I didn't have any sex drive at all growing up. I wonder how mine compares to guys that have theirs "naturally." But any time I want to tone it down, I just lower the dose.
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    Dec 25, 2017 9:13 PM GMT
    ^
    - No medical school in the world -- not even endocrinology specializations -- trains doctors on TRT, let alone how to deal with physiological changes introduced by exogenous sex hormones. Unless the doctor is self-taught and sympathizing, he will not know what to do with you. This explains the overall mistrust in the medical community and the unfortunate emphasis on bro-science coming from the steroid user community.
    - The increased libido and aggression you felt while on TRT are likely circumstantial: you already had the spark in you, testosterone was just the gasoline. And let's not forget this whole experience is new to you: you are experiencing now what many guys experience when they were 15. Increased aggression could also come from unbalanced feminine hormones (aromatase inhibitors can be notoriously difficult to dose) or simply the drug exposed a chemical imbalance in your brain that was only waiting for a trigger. In your case it's aggression, but it could have been anxiety or some other mental disorder.

    In any case, given your circumstances, I don't think OP should expect the same effects you felt. The treacherous thing about sex hormones is that YMMV a LOT.
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    Dec 26, 2017 2:15 AM GMT
    bachian said
    The treacherous thing about sex hormones is that YMMV a LOT.

    Which is why I won't take them, unless a doctor tells me it's therapeutic, to restore my normal levels for my age. Which some effect of age, illness, or whatever, has disrupted.

    I don't take any medications, nor hormones, to remold myself. I don't plan to defeat aging, or to create someone who didn't exist before, with the use of modern science. As you hint, the unintended consequences of misusing these medical miracles can be what prematurely kills you.

    No, my goal is to stay within the "normal" range for myself. That's what I seek out of medicine. Nothing more. Anything else, is... treacherous.
  • MikeHunt26

    Posts: 33

    Dec 26, 2017 4:32 AM GMT
    bachian said^
    - No medical school in the world -- not even endocrinology specializations -- trains doctors on TRT, let alone how to deal with physiological changes introduced by exogenous sex hormones. Unless the doctor is self-taught and sympathizing, he will not know what to do with you. This explains the overall mistrust in the medical community and the unfortunate emphasis on bro-science coming from the steroid user community.


    It's alarming because I learned what I needed to do through three fast google searches. The advice wound up being 100% accurate, and it took me under an hour to research the topic and locate how the medication should be used, in what dosage and in what way. Half-life is a concept I learned in high school, and my endo wasn't aware of the half-life of testosterone. None of them were aware of the importance of aromatase inibitors for estrogen control, and none even thought it was important to do bloodwork to measure my estradiol levels. These are all the very core concepts of TRT, at the very basic level. Doctors have to re-up their knowledge annually, attend seminars, do coursework and maintain an up-to-date intellectual framework in the ever-changing world of medicine. The fact that none of them knew anything at all about TRT is insanity.
  • tonyatl

    Posts: 131

    Feb 23, 2018 3:14 AM GMT
    MikeHunt26 said
    bachian said^
    - No medical school in the world -- not even endocrinology specializations -- trains doctors on TRT, let alone how to deal with physiological changes introduced by exogenous sex hormones. Unless the doctor is self-taught and sympathizing, he will not know what to do with you. This explains the overall mistrust in the medical community and the unfortunate emphasis on bro-science coming from the steroid user community.


    It's alarming because I learned what I needed to do through three fast google searches. The advice wound up being 100% accurate, and it took me under an hour to research the topic and locate how the medication should be used, in what dosage and in what way. Half-life is a concept I learned in high school, and my endo wasn't aware of the half-life of testosterone. None of them were aware of the importance of aromatase inibitors for estrogen control, and none even thought it was important to do bloodwork to measure my estradiol levels. These are all the very core concepts of TRT, at the very basic level. Doctors have to re-up their knowledge annually, attend seminars, do coursework and maintain an up-to-date intellectual framework in the ever-changing world of medicine. The fact that none of them knew anything at all about TRT is insanity.


    it's unrealistic to expect doctors in general to be experts on hrt. in the usa one goes to specialists who have studied the process. I am sure that this doctor knows what a half life is, but 400/600 mg with a X-day half life still leaves a good deal of testosterone floating around at the end of 2 weeks - but it needs a boost. half life does not mean that 100% of a substance has vanished.

    btw - in most us protocols, injections are administered weekly at low doses - 100 - 200 mg - to manage the problem of half life decay. also hcg is administered to boost endogenous test production. the goal is to reach 600 - 1200 ng/dl levels of test, or enough to support normal sex functioning, sleep, weight control, etc etc.

    one of the important factors in managing hrt is free testosterone levels which frequently are not reported on blood tests. also, there are natural ways of elevating testosterone and for many men that should be the first recourse. men should not follow low fat diets or low cholesterol if they wish to optimize testosterone production. animal fats are key.

    americans consume so much estrogen producing foods and non-edibles that it dramatically impairs testosterone production and free-t. avoid plastics as much as possible.