Dear Colleague: September 27, 2017

  • timmm55

    Posts: 16

    Jan 19, 2018 11:22 PM GMT
    Scientific advances have shown that antiretroviral therapy (ART) preserves the health of people living with HIV. We also have strong evidence of the prevention effectiveness of ART. When ART results in viral suppression, defined as less than 200 copies/ml or undetectable levels, it prevents sexual HIV transmission. Across three different studies, including thousands of couples and many thousand acts of sex without a condom or pre-exposure prophylaxis (PrEP), no HIV transmissions to an HIV-negative partner were observed when the HIV-positive person was virally suppressed. This means that people who take ART daily as prescribed and achieve and maintain an undetectable viral load have effectively no risk of sexually transmitting the virus to an HIV-negative partner.
    https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/library/dcl/dcl/092717.html
    Yes Art Deco this is from the CDC.
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    Jan 20, 2018 2:04 AM GMT
    timmm55 said. This means that people who take ART daily as prescribed and achieve and maintain an undetectable viral load . . .
    https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/library/dcl/dcl/092717.html
    Yes Art Deco this is from the CDC.

    The "taking the medication daily" bit has real significance. Stopping for a short period apparently results in the viral load in the blood quickly returning to very high levels.
  • timmm55

    Posts: 16

    Jan 23, 2018 7:25 PM GMT
    HikerSkier said
    timmm55 said. This means that people who take ART daily as prescribed and achieve and maintain an undetectable viral load . . .
    https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/library/dcl/dcl/092717.html
    Yes Art Deco this is from the CDC.

    The "taking the medication daily" bit has real significance. Stopping for a short period apparently results in the viral load in the blood quickly returning to very high levels.


    Most people do not have a problem with the daily routine. Those that do are usually associated with depression, drug use and homelessness.
    "The study found that viral load began to increase in as little as 48 hours after discontinuing HIV medication.
    After 2 to 6 days, the viral load increased 25%. Between 14 and 20 days, viral load continued to increase significantly (P < .001), and participants whose treatment interruption lasted 3 weeks or longer saw their viral load increase 3-fold, Dr. Genberg said."
    https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/743566

    If your read the CDC report it says <200 copies, which is considered detectable, but still suppressed. If your previous UNDETECTABLE level was <25, the above study would indicate <75....still not infections. If you miss a dose it doesn't wreck your regime. Compliance needs to be 90% plus.

    "Drug Holidays" are NEVER a good idea. My ex did that for 2 years. I told him, pleaded with him, to go back on. I enlisted his mother to help. He did eventually. It look a year for his viral load to become undetectable again. His T-cells remained low. He died of liver cancer last May at 57, hepatitis relayed.
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    Jan 23, 2018 9:59 PM GMT
    HikerSkier said
    timmm55 said. This means that people who take ART daily as prescribed and achieve and maintain an undetectable viral load . . .
    https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/library/dcl/dcl/092717.html
    Yes Art Deco this is from the CDC.

    The "taking the medication daily" bit has real significance. Stopping for a short period apparently results in the viral load in the blood quickly returning to very high levels.

    Relying on someone to tell you the truth that they haven't skipped any days to me seems just as risky as relying on them to tell you that they're negative.
  • timmm55

    Posts: 16

    Jan 23, 2018 10:26 PM GMT
    Lumpyoatmeal said
    HikerSkier said
    timmm55 said. This means that people who take ART daily as prescribed and achieve and maintain an undetectable viral load . . .
    https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/library/dcl/dcl/092717.html
    Yes Art Deco this is from the CDC.

    The "taking the medication daily" bit has real significance. Stopping for a short period apparently results in the viral load in the blood quickly returning to very high levels.

    Relying on someone to tell you the truth that they haven't skipped any days to me seems just as risky as relying on them to tell you that they're negative.



    Any days? I guarantee you everyone will miss a dose now and the, no matter what the medication. (Skip implies intentional). See above. It takes more than that.

    I see a doctor 3-4X a year. Do you?
    I have T-cell and viral load done (among other things including STDs) every time. I had one blip to 80 (still not infectious, CDC says >200 ) due to using pink antacids. The next test was undetectable again. That's in 15 years. If I miss a pill I usually take it first thing in the morning. I'm sure I've missed one or two in the last 6 months. That's near 100% compliance. Last week it was 1411 T-cells and undetectable as usual.

    "FALSE. Several studies show that people with HIV who take HIV medication as prescribed and who, as a result, have what is known as an “undetectable viral load,” do not transmit HIV. Having sex with an HIV+ person who has an undetectable viral load is safer than having sex with someone who does not know their HIV status."
    https://www.them.us/story/top-10-stigma-busting-myths-about-hiv

    Let's be honest here. If you got a negative result last week, it doesn't reflect what happened 2 days ago. Or even just before the test. There's a window period. Virtually everyone who says they are Negative don't know. Only if they have had 2 tests and no sex in between Negative tests can you truly say "Negative".
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    Feb 09, 2018 2:35 AM GMT
    Lumpyoatmeal said
    HikerSkier said
    timmm55 said. This means that people who take ART daily as prescribed and achieve and maintain an undetectable viral load . . .
    https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/library/dcl/dcl/092717.html
    Yes Art Deco this is from the CDC.

    The "taking the medication daily" bit has real significance. Stopping for a short period apparently results in the viral load in the blood quickly returning to very high levels.

    Relying on someone to tell you the truth that they haven't skipped any days to me seems just as risky as relying on them to tell you that they're negative.


    Again Timmm55 you are trying your best to convince HIV neg men they should blindly trust a man who says he is POZ with a UVL and distrust those who say they are HIV neg. Lumpy is right to point out that you should always protect yourself and not rely on the word of another person. The reasons Timmm55 wants blind faith in UVL are well established on here and of course he always tries to envoke an emotional response from the reader of guilt when they are simply looking after their own health. Outright dismissal of POZ men who are doing the best for their health and yours is discrimination based on ignorance, but believing someone who says they have a UVL who you barely know is boardering on stupidity. Don’t trust any strangers sexual health status because some guys willl lie and others not provide current information. That applies to those who claim to have a UVL equally as those with a claim to being HIV Negative. If every sexually active man took that approach in conjunction with engaging with a protective strategy that suits their circumstance, then transmission would dramatically drop irreversibly. Most POZ men understand that it is a big deal to choose to have sex with a POZ man regardless of his status of becoming uninfectious which means having some compassion regarding their concerns about the risk of transmission. Taking HIV viral surpression medication doesn’t make you incapable of lying about having taken a drug holiday. Accept that men will do and say whatever to get sex in the moment and that expecting men to believe a new partner is actually uninfectious is dangerous.
  • timmm55

    Posts: 16

    Feb 14, 2018 6:06 PM GMT
    Sydneyrugbyjock73 said
    Lumpyoatmeal said
    HikerSkier said
    timmm55 said. This means that people who take ART daily as prescribed and achieve and maintain an undetectable viral load . . .
    https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/library/dcl/dcl/092717.html
    Yes Art Deco this is from the CDC.

    The "taking the medication daily" bit has real significance. Stopping for a short period apparently results in the viral load in the blood quickly returning to very high levels.

    Relying on someone to tell you the truth that they haven't skipped any days to me seems just as risky as relying on them to tell you that they're negative.


    Again Timmm55 you are trying your best to convince HIV neg men they should blindly trust a man who says he is POZ with a UVL and distrust those who say they are HIV neg. Lumpy is right to point out that you should always protect yourself and not rely on the word of another person. The reasons Timmm55 wants blind faith in UVL are well established on here and of course he always tries to envoke an emotional response from the reader of guilt when they are simply looking after their own health. Outright dismissal of POZ men who are doing the best for their health and yours is discrimination based on ignorance, but believing someone who says they have a UVL who you barely know is boardering on stupidity. Don’t trust any strangers sexual health status because some guys willl lie and others not provide current information. That applies to those who claim to have a UVL equally as those with a claim to being HIV Negative. If every sexually active man took that approach in conjunction with engaging with a protective strategy that suits their circumstance, then transmission would dramatically drop irreversibly. Most POZ men understand that it is a big deal to choose to have sex with a POZ man regardless of his status of becoming uninfectious which means having some compassion regarding their concerns about the risk of transmission. Taking HIV viral surpression medication doesn’t make you incapable of lying about having taken a drug holiday. Accept that men will do and say whatever to get sex in the moment and that expecting men to believe a new partner is actually uninfectious is dangerous.


    Or you could go on PrEP and stop blaming everyone else.
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    Feb 16, 2018 5:12 AM GMT
    timmm55 said
    Sydneyrugbyjock73 said
    Lumpyoatmeal said
    HikerSkier said
    timmm55 said. This means that people who take ART daily as prescribed and achieve and maintain an undetectable viral load . . .
    https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/library/dcl/dcl/092717.html
    Yes Art Deco this is from the CDC.

    The "taking the medication daily" bit has real significance. Stopping for a short period apparently results in the viral load in the blood quickly returning to very high levels.

    Relying on someone to tell you the truth that they haven't skipped any days to me seems just as risky as relying on them to tell you that they're negative.


    Again Timmm55 you are trying your best to convince HIV neg men they should blindly trust a man who says he is POZ with a UVL and distrust those who say they are HIV neg. Lumpy is right to point out that you should always protect yourself and not rely on the word of another person. The reasons Timmm55 wants blind faith in UVL are well established on here and of course he always tries to envoke an emotional response from the reader of guilt when they are simply looking after their own health. Outright dismissal of POZ men who are doing the best for their health and yours is discrimination based on ignorance, but believing someone who says they have a UVL who you barely know is boardering on stupidity. Don’t trust any strangers sexual health status because some guys willl lie and others not provide current information. That applies to those who claim to have a UVL equally as those with a claim to being HIV Negative. If every sexually active man took that approach in conjunction with engaging with a protective strategy that suits their circumstance, then transmission would dramatically drop irreversibly. Most POZ men understand that it is a big deal to choose to have sex with a POZ man regardless of his status of becoming uninfectious which means having some compassion regarding their concerns about the risk of transmission. Taking HIV viral surpression medication doesn’t make you incapable of lying about having taken a drug holiday. Accept that men will do and say whatever to get sex in the moment and that expecting men to believe a new partner is actually uninfectious is dangerous.


    Or you could go on PrEP and stop blaming everyone else.


    Duh . . .
    No one is blaming anyone.

    PrEP is a rather expensive solution to avoiding safe sex.
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    Feb 16, 2018 12:43 PM GMT
    Or you could go on PrEP and stop blaming everyone else. [/quote]

    So Timmm55 this is the attitude you bring to “educate” people who so ignorantly assume that POZ men stil have some of the responsibility for non transmission. Your attitude isn’t for shared responsibility, it’s for a reversal of responsibility from what u perceive as being formally solely at the hands of POZ men now according to you it’s soley on HIV neg men. In the context of claiming your stigmata has it occurred to you that you are merely re-enforcing negative stereotypes which effectively hindered those majority of HIV POZ men who don’t share your views. History has handed you a platform to try to convince people to blindly trust POZ men to bare back and it matters not that you don’t say it directly, most people who see your posts consistently already know for themselves your agenda. Stop hindering the majority and keep your anger born out of past rejections under wraps so real change and trust can build between Sero concordant partners as a permanent change instead of out of guilt or following a fad. Prep is a great tool but should not be relied upon in isolation. Again I will also state that rejected someone because they are POZ is wrong. However that doesn’t mean that despite bio medical advances that POZ men are now angels who never make human mistakes and that some even deliberately lie. Not sure how you don’t get it. Any POZ man who just takes a new partners word for it about being undetectable is as at risk as they are if someone says they are negative. Because either could be wrong, please try for one second to understand that. I made it clear I was only talking about new partners who’s status is unknown because you can’t be certain they have the status they claim to have , full stop, period
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    Feb 16, 2018 6:26 PM GMT
    HikerSkier saidPrEP is a rather expensive solution to avoiding safe sex.

    Plus we don't yet know what the long term side effects may be. So it could be expensive in more than one way.
  • Ubeaut

    Posts: 230

    Feb 22, 2018 10:45 AM GMT
    'POZ men stil have some of the responsibility for non transmission. '

    And that's the second reason I take my medications as prescribed. But of course the main reason that people living with HIV take their medications, and get regular check ups is to keep themselves well. That's the main motivation there is no stronger motivation thatn preservation of health and life.

    It takes an amazing paranoia to assume that someone is deliberately skipping medications to put you at risk.
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    Feb 22, 2018 8:42 PM GMT
    Ubeaut saidIt takes an amazing paranoia to assume that someone is deliberately skipping medications to put you at risk.

    Back when I went celibate if you became HIV+ it was a death sentence. In the early days they hadn't discovered the HIV virus. But once it was known that HIV+ could be prevented with condoms and safe sex I could never fathom how guys were still having unsafe sex and becoming HIV+. In the earliest days there was very little if any treatment. So my attitude is that anyone who's HIV+ these days is someone who engaged in risky behavior; they became positive after treatment became available and that was definitely after it was known how to prevent infection. So expecting people to not be paranoid about sex with someone who's HIV+ seems a bit naive to me; we're talking about people who have a demonstrable record of having engaged in foolish behavior.
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    Feb 22, 2018 9:04 PM GMT
    Ubeaut said'POZ men stil have some of the responsibility for non transmission. '

    And that's the second reason I take my medications as prescribed. But of course the main reason that people living with HIV take their medications, and get regular check ups is to keep themselves well. That's the main motivation there is no stronger motivation thatn preservation of health and life.

    It takes an amazing paranoia to assume that someone is deliberately skipping medications to put you at risk.


    I doubt that anyone believes that HIV+ guys would deliberately skip HIV medications to put others at risk. Inadvertence, lack of funds, and accidents are, however, known to mankind.
  • timmm55

    Posts: 16

    Feb 23, 2018 9:37 PM GMT
    Sydneyrugbyjock73 saidOr you could go on PrEP and stop blaming everyone else.


    So Timmm55 this is the attitude you bring to “educate” people who so ignorantly assume that POZ men stil have some of the responsibility for non transmission. Your attitude isn’t for shared responsibility, it’s for a reversal of responsibility from what u perceive as being formally solely at the hands of POZ men now according to you it’s soley on HIV neg men. In the context of claiming your stigmata has it occurred to you that you are merely re-enforcing negative stereotypes which effectively hindered those majority of HIV POZ men who don’t share your views. History has handed you a platform to try to convince people to blindly trust POZ men to bare back and it matters not that you don’t say it directly, most people who see your posts consistently already know for themselves your agenda. Stop hindering the majority and keep your anger born out of past rejections under wraps so real change and trust can build between Sero concordant partners as a permanent change instead of out of guilt or following a fad. Prep is a great tool but should not be relied upon in isolation. Again I will also state that rejected someone because they are POZ is wrong. However that doesn’t mean that despite bio medical advances that POZ men are now angels who never make human mistakes and that some even deliberately lie. Not sure how you don’t get it. Any POZ man who just takes a new partners word for it about being undetectable is as at risk as they are if someone says they are negative. Because either could be wrong, please try for one second to understand that. I made it clear I was only talking about new partners who’s status is unknown because you can’t be certain they have the status they claim to have , full stop, period [/quote]

    " according to you it’s soley on HIV neg men" AGAIN don't put words in my mouth. You can barely make sentences into paragraphs.
    " Stop hindering the majority and keep your anger born out of past rejections" there's an example of your presumed HIV Negative superiority. You are not the majority. You are out of touch. At least here in So Cal most (but not all) understand the uses of antiviral medications. They "get" PrEP, "Treatment as Prevention" and PEP. In the US HIV has fallen from 50,000 to 35,000. Not enough. More needs to be done. I still see "HIV-, UB2" and their only prevention is "condoms" at least according to profiles on line. Which makes THEM the most susceptible to acquiring new HIV transmissions.

    " Any POZ man who just takes a new partners word for it about being undetectable is as at risk as they are if someone says they are negative. Because either could be wrong, please try for one second to understand that."
    WTF are you talking about? IF I am with a POZ man and I am undetectable, what do you think happens? Nothing! I've certainly been with POZ men who are not on ART. It doesn't affect my Viral Load and I don't affect them adversely. I will probably mention, ever so casually (lol), how beneficial ART is for yourself and society. But not taking meds is ultimately their decision. Just as not taking advantage of PrEP is to Negative men.

    "doesn’t mean..... that POZ men are now angels who never make human mistakes and that some even deliberately lie." You are no angel either. I'm sure you lie. Stop with the accusations and yes.....STIGMATIZING.
    I say on my profile "I DON'T FUCK STUPID PEOPLE. You need to know about Treatment as Prevention and PrEP. If you don't know, ASK." Hopefully that rids me of people like you who are still waging a war on those who are POZ. Pass me by.......PLEASE.
  • timmm55

    Posts: 16

    Feb 23, 2018 10:10 PM GMT
    Lumpyoatmeal said
    Ubeaut saidIt takes an amazing paranoia to assume that someone is deliberately skipping medications to put you at risk.

    Back when I went celibate if you became HIV+ it was a death sentence. In the early days they hadn't discovered the HIV virus. But once it was known that HIV+ could be prevented with condoms and safe sex I could never fathom how guys were still having unsafe sex and becoming HIV+. In the earliest days there was very little if any treatment. So my attitude is that anyone who's HIV+ these days is someone who engaged in risky behavior; they became positive after treatment became available and that was definitely after it was known how to prevent infection. So expecting people to not be paranoid about sex with someone who's HIV+ seems a bit naive to me; we're talking about people who have a demonstrable record of having engaged in foolish behavior.


    Judge much?
    "But once it was known that HIV+ could be prevented with condoms and safe sex I could never fathom how guys were still having unsafe sex and becoming HIV+"


    Because they believed IT! It was always "safer sex" never "safe sex". Condom are not as effective as you (apparently) think with anal sex.
    http://www.aidsmap.com/CDC-researchers-publish-estimate-of-effectiveness-of-condom-use-in-anal-sex/page/2930716/

    If for no other reason, that demonstrates how many men who thought they were having safe sex, in fact were not. The above study was 2014. We never had a study on condoms/anal sex from 1985 or 1993. The CDC said to use them. It seemed logical then to assume condoms were effective. Instead, during those 8 years, HIV spread MUCH more than it should have IMHO. Be a little less judgmental and more understanding. They were doing what they thought was safe(r) sex.

    Even today with meth users I have to have some compassion. It IS an addiction. They throw caution and Prevention out the window. Taking pills on a regular basis is sketchy and unreliable for them. But they have to quit meth.
  • timmm55

    Posts: 16

    Feb 23, 2018 10:16 PM GMT
    HikerSkier said
    Ubeaut said'POZ men stil have some of the responsibility for non transmission. '

    And that's the second reason I take my medications as prescribed. But of course the main reason that people living with HIV take their medications, and get regular check ups is to keep themselves well. That's the main motivation there is no stronger motivation thatn preservation of health and life.

    It takes an amazing paranoia to assume that someone is deliberately skipping medications to put you at risk.


    I doubt that anyone believes that HIV+ guys would deliberately skip HIV medications to put others at risk. Inadvertence, lack of funds, and accidents are, however, known to mankind.

    Absolutely. Throw in drugs, homelessness and mental health issues to the mix, it's better if they don't take ART. Erratic use creates resistance, which can be passed along. That happened with the PrEP user in SF.