Another NRA & Republican Victory: At Least 17 Killed In High School Near Me

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 14, 2018 11:57 PM GMT
    An expelled student killed 17 people at his former high school today with an AR-15 assault rifle. Unknown yet what number were students. Others have been hospitalized.

    Not far from us, in this county. You'll be seeing it on US TV news.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/police-respond-shooting-parkland-florida-high-school-n848101
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    Feb 15, 2018 12:23 AM GMT
    I would ask what has changed in American society that is producing more shootings.

    The US has always had guns but it has not always had mass shootings. What is different?

    Are citizens more stupid? Too much Hollywood gore and desensitization? What....

    The outcries for more gun control may partially treat a symptom but it will not be a cure.

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    Feb 15, 2018 2:46 AM GMT
    How many massacre shootings were there when Obama was president? Seems to me that there's been a very sharp uptick in these since Trump was elected. I'd be curious to see some statistics about how many there have been under each president.
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 5810

    Feb 15, 2018 2:48 AM GMT
    Muskelprotz saidI would ask what has changed in American society that is producing more shootings.
    The US has always had guns but it has not always had mass shootings. What is different?
    Are citizens more stupid? Too much Hollywood gore and desensitization? What....
    The outcries for more gun control may partially treat a symptom but it will not be a cure.

    Sometimes treating the symptoms is better than not treating the symptoms.
    Especially if there is no quick fix for the underlying problem.
    Especially when the symptoms will kill people.

    What is almost more amazing than the incident is how calmly student survivors appear in interviews.
    Granted, no one is interviewing students who are hysterical, but those being aired show students describing this as they might a movie or video game. That they were in it, stepping over puddles of blood and past bodies, may not have yet sunk in. Yet this seems to suggest that "too much Hollywood gore and desensitization" is also a factor.
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 5810

    Feb 15, 2018 2:52 AM GMT
    Lumpyoatmeal saidHow many massacre shootings were there when Obama was president? Seems to me that there's been a very sharp uptick in these since Trump was elected. I'd be curious to see some statistics about how many there have been under each president.

    One of the things that most disturbed me in the State of the Union address was the amount of time spent on the girls(?) murdered by illegal immigrants (horrible as that is) versus the silence on the Vegas and other shootings.
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    Feb 15, 2018 4:41 AM GMT
    http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/373961-white-house-plans-to-skip-press-briefing-for-second-consecutive-day

    The last paragraph says, "Former President Obama appeared in the White House briefing room on several occasions following mass shootings, including on the day of the massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School that left 20 students and six staff members dead."

    So there were some when Obama was president. I wasn't paying attention to the news during his presidency (and was unaware of how screwed up things were in Congress during his second term).
  • outdoorsmuscl...

    Posts: 2709

    Feb 15, 2018 5:04 AM GMT

    Trump is weak .. no vision of what should be done, no empathy, just soundbites to appeal to his ignorant base and the NRA.
    A pathetic disgrace ..Not a leader

    Lumpyoatmeal saidhttp://thehill.com/homenews/administration/373961-white-house-plans-to-skip-press-briefing-for-second-consecutive-day

    The last paragraph says, "Former President Obama appeared in the White House briefing room on several occasions following mass shootings, including on the day of the massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School that left 20 students and six staff members dead."

    So there were some when Obama was president. I wasn't paying attention to the news during his presidency (and was unaware of how screwed up things were in Congress during his second term).
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    Feb 15, 2018 5:16 AM GMT
    presumed_outdoormuscleguy said
    Trump is weak .. no vision of what should be done, no empathy, just soundbites to appeal to his ignorant base and the NRA.
    A pathetic disgrace ..Not a leader


    That does not explain Obama's inaction. Other than your usual Trump hate how about a constructive thought on a solution?

  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 21021

    Feb 15, 2018 5:32 AM GMT
    Guns don't kill people, people kill people


    Let. That. Sink. In.
  • outdoorsmuscl...

    Posts: 2709

    Feb 15, 2018 5:33 AM GMT
    Obama did not hide behind closed doors ... He immediately addressed the nation. He tried to get gun laws strengthened... now your have a weak potus . He sucks up to who ever contributes more to his campaign and businesses. He is not leader for most americans ... just white trash america . ... . I anticipate his response "it is not the guns fault everyone has the right to own an AR-15... yeah tell that to the parent of a dead child .."
    I hope to see the toe tag on that despicable piece of shit soon . SnoopTrumpCover1.png
    Muskelprotz said
    presumed_outdoormuscleguy said
    Trump is weak .. no vision of what should be done, no empathy, just soundbites to appeal to his ignorant base and the NRA.
    A pathetic disgrace ..Not a leader


    That does not explain Obama's inaction. Other than your usual Trump hate how about a constructive thought on a solution?

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    Feb 15, 2018 8:24 AM GMT
    Trump promised he would be the NRA’s best friend. This is probably one of the few promises he’s going to keep. Far easier to rant about an illegal immigrant involved in an auto accident.
  • mwolverine

    Posts: 5810

    Feb 15, 2018 10:22 AM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ saidGuns don't kill people, people kill people

    It's true, but uselessly so.
    Drugs don't kill people, people [who abuse drugs] kill people... right?

    Bombs don't kill people, people kill people....

    Knives don't kill people, people kill people.

    Yet if this murderer were armed with a knife, we may not have even heard about this incident.
    [Not saying he couldn't have murdered a few people, but a lot less than 17.]


    It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever that a (then) 18 year-old - who can't legally buy a beer or handgun - can walk into a store and (after a brief "background check") buy an Assault Rifle.
  • Unity123

    Posts: 1922

    Feb 15, 2018 12:34 PM GMT
    Muskelprotz saidI would ask what has changed in American society that is producing more shootings.

    The US has always had guns but it has not always had mass shootings. What is different?

    Are citizens more stupid? Too much Hollywood gore and desensitization? What....

    The outcries for more gun control may partially treat a symptom but it will not be a cure.



    What is different?

    - Church attendance is way down.
    - Divorce is way up.
    - Screen time with violent games & shows is way up.

    Instead of counseling, parenting, friendship, etc.....troubled kids are shown violence is the solution.
  • Unity123

    Posts: 1922

    Feb 15, 2018 12:41 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ saidGuns don't kill people, people kill people


    Let. That. Sink. In.


    ^ This.

    Anybody in such EXTREME PSYCHIC PAIN. combined with MODELING OF VIOLENCE, will do great harm. Unfortunately, gun-grabbers don't have the emotional acuity to comprehend this simple fact.
  • outdoorsmuscl...

    Posts: 2709

    Feb 15, 2018 1:56 PM GMT
    All the bogus claims to defend deaths by Guns in the US compared to the rest of the world do not add up.
    Until a leader is strong enough to stand up to the NRA and all the other "wack job don't take away my guns lobbies" more people will be killed including children.

    gun-death-rates-chart.jpg

    S2Ki said
    Muskelprotz saidI would ask what has changed in American society that is producing more shootings.

    The US has always had guns but it has not always had mass shootings. What is different?

    Are citizens more stupid? Too much Hollywood gore and desensitization? What....

    The outcries for more gun control may partially treat a symptom but it will not be a cure.



    What is different?

    - Church attendance is way down.
    - Divorce is way up.
    - Screen time with violent games & shows is way up.

    Instead of counseling, parenting, friendship, etc.....troubled kids are shown violence is the solution.
  • outdoorsmuscl...

    Posts: 2709

    Feb 15, 2018 2:04 PM GMT
    Gun killings are actually highest in whitest areas

    Trump's emphasis on gang crime is dishonest at best.

    President Trump would have us believe that white Americans are endangered by immigrant drug dealers and gangsters, and the liberal politicians who abet them with so-called sanctuary cities.

    Late last month in Ohio, Trump used lurid language to claim that gang members “slice and dice” beautiful girls like “animals.” Around the same time, his administration strengthened its crackdown on sanctuary jurisdictions, announcing a new policy that requires local governments to either cooperate with federal immigration agents or lose funding.

    Mike Males, senior researcher for the Center on Juvenile and Criminal Justice in San Francisco, wrote this for the Los Angeles Times.

    It’s obvious to anyone who’s listening that when Trump talks about this terrifying other, he’s really talking about nonwhite people, not just any old foreigner; and indeed, Trump supporters in surveys conflate their fears of immigrants and dark-skinned people.

    These fears are not founded in reality. White people should be more afraid of other whites than they are of people of color.

    I examined federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention statistics on murder, gun killings and illegal-drug overdoses among white Americans. My analysis shows that the white Americans who are most at risk of dying from these causes are those who live in predominantly white counties.

    The CDC statistics cover 2011 through 2015, the most recent five years for which data are available, and encompass 2,962 counties and 99 percent of the U.S. population.

    According to the data, rates of homicides, gun killings and illicit-drug fatalities are highest in counties where nine in 10 residents are white and where President Trump won in the 2016 election.

    Such counties are not limited to one geographical region. They include Boone County, West Virginia; Washington County, Utah; Baxter County, Arkansas; and Brown County, Ohio.

    Correspondingly, the white Americans who are safest from such deaths are those who live in racially diverse areas such as Los Angeles, New York and Chicago, where two-thirds of residents are nonwhite, where millions of immigrants live, and where voters favored Hillary Clinton in 2016. Nonwhites also are safer in these areas overall, though rates vary by location.

    White Americans are nearly eight times more likely to die from illicit-drug overdoses than murder, the CDC statistics show, a proportion that undoubtedly reflects the heroin and illegal opiate epidemic.

    But according to FBI data for 2015, when whites are murdered anywhere in the country, the murderer is five times more likely to be white than nonwhite. (This ratio counts only murder cases in which information about the offender is known by law enforcement.)

    Overall, white Americans who live in predominantly white and Trump-voting counties are 50 percent more likely to die from murder, gun violence and drug overdoses than whites who live in the most diverse and Democratic-voting counties. The more white and Republican a county is, the greater the risk for white Americans.

    Whites are so much safer where there are fewer whites and Republicans, in fact, that it raises the question of what exactly underlies this strong correlation between white safety and voting patterns.

    It may appear logical that white Americans are more at risk where they are experiencing the most economic pain and supposed neglect by Democratic politicians.

    After all, much has been made of the role that economic anxiety played in white support for Trump, especially in predominantly white areas.

    But Census Bureau data do not back up such a correlation. White Americans enjoyed the largest real income and employment gains of any race during President Barack Obama’s administration, particularly in Rust Belt states, where federal economic stimulus was strongest.

    Perhaps Trump’s supporters are attracted to his macabre rhetoric and promises of draconian crackdowns precisely because they are most at risk of dying the kind of violent death he describes. But in this case, they are seriously mistaken about what endangers them – namely, themselves and other white Americans.

    California can serve as an illustrative example of how safety increases with greater diversity. Five out of six white Americans in California now live in counties where whites are a minority. (Nationwide, this is true of only one in six white Americans.)

    White residents of California are generally safer from murder, gun killings and illicit-drug overdoses than whites elsewhere. Overall, the state’s crime rate is near a historic low.

    California experienced political uproar over demographic change in the 1980s and 1990s, and the state generated the same anti-immigrant, tough-on-crime, racist panic that Trump and some Republican politicians are now fomenting.

    California’s been-there-done-that advice to the rest of the country: Skip that stage. Safety comes with diversity.
    https://www.pressherald.com/2017/08/06/commentary-gun-killings-are-actually-highest-in-whitest-areas/

    Lumpyoatmeal saidHow many massacre shootings were there when Obama was president? Seems to me that there's been a very sharp uptick in these since Trump was elected. I'd be curious to see some statistics about how many there have been under each president.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 15, 2018 2:10 PM GMT
    Duh, look in the mirror Liberals, your progressiveness is the problem:

    Liberals, your argument for legalizing Marijuana is that increased laws don't work.
    Liberals, your argument for making guns illegal is that increased laws will work.

    Progressively more violence in entertainment by Liberal Hollywood begets more violence in reality.

    Don't listen to me Liberals, here's one of your own:
    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/tv-violence-enough-is-enough_us_59d5ff6fe4b0666ad0c3caeb

    Progressively more unprotected sex everywhere means more babies that you support killing.
    Progressively more sex in the open means more sexual abuse.
    Progressively more drug and alcohol use in entertainment by Liberal Hollywood means more substance abuse.
    Progressively more taxes means more spending.

    Progress means "change" which frequently isn't better.




  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 15, 2018 2:17 PM GMT
    Lumpyoatmeal saidhttp://thehill.com/homenews/administration/373961-white-house-plans-to-skip-press-briefing-for-second-consecutive-day

    The last paragraph says, "Former President Obama appeared in the White House briefing room on several occasions following mass shootings, including on the day of the massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School that left 20 students and six staff members dead."

    So there were some when Obama was president. I wasn't paying attention to the news during his presidency (and was unaware of how screwed up things were in Congress during his second term).


    When Democrats controlled the Senate after Sandy Hook, it was Liberal Democrat Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid who blocked all gun legislation. If gun control really works, why didn't Obama take care of it when Democrats had control of the House and Senate? Answer: Harry Reid and many other pro gun Democrats.
  • Unity123

    Posts: 1922

    Feb 15, 2018 2:27 PM GMT
    mx5guynj saidDuh, look in the mirror Liberals, your progressiveness is the problem:

    Liberals, your argument for legalizing Marijuana is that increased laws don't work.
    Liberals, your argument for making guns illegal is that increased laws will work.

    Progressively more violence in entertainment by Liberal Hollywood begets more violence in reality.

    Don't listen to me Liberals, here's one of your own:
    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/tv-violence-enough-is-enough_us_59d5ff6fe4b0666ad0c3caeb

    Progressively more violence in entertainment by Liberal Hollywood begets more violence in reality.
    Progressively more unprotected sex everywhere means more babies that you support killing.
    Progressively more sex in the open means more sexual abuse.
    Progressively more drug and alcohol use in entertainment by Liberal Hollywood means more substance abuse.
    Progressively more taxes means more spending.

    Progress means "change" which frequently isn't better.






    Right on! We cannot push violent, degenerate "entertainment" onto kids.....and not expect terrible consequences.

    If liberals put 1/2 the energy into divestment of stock in "entertainment" companies, as they do in protesting Ivanka Trump's fashion business, maybe there would be fewer deaths.
  • outdoorsmuscl...

    Posts: 2709

    Feb 15, 2018 2:58 PM GMT

    Yeah blame it on hollywood.... gun violence is way up with the illegitimatepotus, scumbag piece of shit in office... why is that?.
    We’re Averaging One School Shooting Every 60 Hours In 2018
    Wednesday’s shooting at a Florida high school is the 18th school shooting of the year
    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/school-shootings-2018_us_5a84a68ee4b0058d55659ae9
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/07/27/trump-promised-to-end-the-american-carnage-gun-deaths-are-up-12-percent/?utm_term=.585ab4238cad

    S2Ki said
    mx5guynj saidDuh, look in the mirror Liberals, your progressiveness is the problem:

    Liberals, your argument for legalizing Marijuana is that increased laws don't work.
    Liberals, your argument for making guns illegal is that increased laws will work.

    Progressively more violence in entertainment by Liberal Hollywood begets more violence in reality.

    Don't listen to me Liberals, here's one of your own:
    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/tv-violence-enough-is-enough_us_59d5ff6fe4b0666ad0c3caeb

    Progressively more violence in entertainment by Liberal Hollywood begets more violence in reality.
    Progressively more unprotected sex everywhere means more babies that you support killing.
    Progressively more sex in the open means more sexual abuse.
    Progressively more drug and alcohol use in entertainment by Liberal Hollywood means more substance abuse.
    Progressively more taxes means more spending.

    Progress means "change" which frequently isn't better.






    Right on! We cannot push violent, degenerate "entertainment" onto kids.....and not expect terrible consequences.

    If liberals put 1/2 the energy into divestment of stock in "entertainment" companies, as they do in protesting Ivanka Trump's fashion business, maybe there would be fewer deaths.
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    Feb 15, 2018 3:05 PM GMT
    mx5guynj said
    When Democrats controlled the Senate after Sandy Hook, it was Liberal Democrat Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid who blocked all gun legislation. If gun control really works, why didn't Obama take care of it when Democrats had control of the House and Senate? Answer: Harry Reid and many other pro gun Democrats.

    More lies from you. Democrats did not "control" the Senate. They only had a super- majority of 60 votes for a mere 30 days, required to overcome Republican fillibusters. And that total was only because 2 Independent Senators caucused with the Democrats.

    The super-majority briefly happened when Democratic Sen. Al Franken was finally seated, delayed 6 months by meritless court actions by his losing Reublican opponent in Minnesota. And no sooner had Franken joined the Senate than Sen. Ted Kennedy died of brain cancer, once again dropping Dems below the vital 60 number.

    Sen. Reid knew he didn't have the votes to pass gun control legislation. The "Party of No" was firmly opposed, and could fillibuster a stalemate. So he was forced to avoid wasting the Senate's time with a pointless bill, and didn't submit the bill. He didn't actively "block" it.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 21021

    Feb 15, 2018 3:24 PM GMT
    mwolverine said
    It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever that a (then) 18 year-old - who can't legally buy a beer or handgun - can walk into a store and (after a brief "background) check" buy an Assault Rifle.


    I absolutely agree with you 100% that there is absolutely no reason that an 18 year old should own an assault rifle...I'm not sure anyone should own one. We've got to find a solution to this perplexing problem that plagues our communities without violating the 2nd amendment. We've also got to be better at identifying the signs of troubled individuals who might have tendencies for this sort of violence but, again, it's a fine line to try and do this without violating someones rights.
  • outdoorsmuscl...

    Posts: 2709

    Feb 15, 2018 4:40 PM GMT
    It’s time to repeal the Second Amendment

    NYT’s conservative columnist: It’s time to repeal the Second Amendment

    Give the estimable Bret Stephens credit for getting to the heart of the debate by discussing the position that gun-control advocates avoid like the plague. It takes Stephens a long time to get there, meandering through a series of questionable analyses of conservative positions and a rather damning litany of progressive hypocrisies and failures, but get there he eventually does. His argument in a nutshell is that James Madison wouldn’t have been a fan of Red Dawn, and that the 2nd Amendment no longer fits the America of our times:

    Repealing the Amendment may seem like political Mission Impossible today, but in the era of same-sex marriage it’s worth recalling that most great causes begin as improbable ones. Gun ownership should never be outlawed, just as it isn’t outlawed in Britain or Australia. But it doesn’t need a blanket Constitutional protection, either. The 46,445 murder victims killed by gunfire in the United States between 2012 and 2016 didn’t need to perish so that gun enthusiasts can go on fantasizing that “Red Dawn” is the fate that soon awaits us.

    Donald Trump will likely get one more Supreme Court nomination, or two or three, before he leaves office, guaranteeing a pro-gun court for another generation. Expansive interpretations of the right to bear arms will be the law of the land — until the “right” itself ceases to be.

    Some conservatives will insist that the Second Amendment is fundamental to the structure of American liberty. They will cite James Madison, who noted in the Federalist Papers that in Europe “the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms.” America was supposed to be different, and better.

    I wonder what Madison would have to say about that today, when more than twice as many Americans perished last year at the hands of their fellows as died in battle during the entire Revolutionary War. My guess: Take the guns—or at least the presumptive right to them—away. The true foundation of American exceptionalism should be our capacity for moral and constitutional renewal, not our instinct for self-destruction.

    At least this takes the debate to its proper level. The Constitution provides two mechanisms for change in Article V. Either Congress can pass amendments and have them ratified by three-quarters of the states, or the states can gather for a convention to propose amendments directly. Those who argue that the Constitution is outdated — as Stephens does here — usually want courts to redefine the language so as to neuter it. Stephens even alludes to that by noting the advantage that 2nd Amendment backers will have in the courts by the end of the Trump administration, effectively closing off the path that worked so well for the same-sex marriage effort he also cites in his four-paragraph argument.

    https://hotair.com/archives/2017/10/05/nyt-conservative-columnist-time-repeal-second-amendment/

    art_deco saidAn expelled student killed 17 people at his former high school today with an AR-15 assault rifle. Unknown yet what number were students. Others have been hospitalized.

    Not far from us, in this county. You'll be seeing it on US TV news.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/police-respond-shooting-parkland-florida-high-school-n848101
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    Feb 15, 2018 5:27 PM GMT
    S2Ki said
    CuriousJockAZ saidGuns don't kill people, people kill people.


    ^ This.

    Anybody in such EXTREME PSYCHIC PAIN. combined with MODELING OF VIOLENCE, will do great harm. Unfortunately, gun-grabbers don't have the emotional acuity to comprehend this simple fact.


    Ridiculous. Americans need to seriously question why school massacres are so common in the US and not in Canada. Do we seriously believe the level of insanity in the US is massively higher in Canada?

    Hollywood violence? Duh! Canadians watch the same movies. icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Feb 15, 2018 5:37 PM GMT
    Plooje said
    You couldn't wait to make this into a political thing, could you? The bodies weren't even cold yet and you raced to the computer to post this. Pathetic.


    What is not political about it? Given the ease of access to military style firearms and ammunition, it's basically state-sponsored mass murder.