just need to write about a boy

  • imbrad

    Posts: 377

    Mar 06, 2009 8:54 PM GMT
    i'm not necessarily looking for attention or sympathy or a lecture on my stupidity. i just needed to write what was goin on... help me deal with things. if anyone has anything to say your comments are welcome... no hatefulness though icon_smile.gif

    Is it just me or does this happen to a lot of guys. I see shit like this on tv and i hate the person that lets it happen to them but nevertheless, I continue to let him do this to me.

    so i've been seeing this guy for a year. (i use the term 'seeing' loosely, more like a hookup that turned into really good friends that continued to sleep with each other). after a lot of dinners together, and breakfast's together, and camping trips and hot springs and don't forget the most amazing sex the world has ever known. i began to develop some pretty strong feelings for the guy. He's everything i look for in a man, we understand each other's sense of humor and sense of adventure. we can do anything together and talk about our sordid pasts openly with each other. i was beginning to think that this was going to lead to a future together... at least someting more significant that buddies and occassional bed partners.

    Anyway, as i was trying to lead our times together toward some kind of discussion about our relationship (this is a year after we met). He disapeared. gone, no word nothing. i won't go into too much of his personal details but a lot of this has to do with his term in iraq and emotional/psychological issues resulting from that. Needless to say i was crushed, none of our friends new where he was, though everyone was not too shocked that he left. I understand him leaving, i just wish he would have said goodbye.

    3 months later he reappears. it took another month for us to really talk about it. but we finally did. now we are too the preesnt. the other day we were hanging out, i had no intention of doing anything more than watching a movie but he kept flirting with me. doing things like putting his hand on my knee, or holding my hand, touching my back when he walked past me. You know those silly things that make you feel them in your whole body without even taking your clothes off?

    I finally couldn't handle it anymore and told him i should leave. I reminded him that he knows how i feel about him and explained how hard it is for me that he won't be with me. He apologized and said he really wanted to be with me too but just can't be in a relationship in this part of his life. he's holding me in his arms while he's telling me this by the way. of course i'm fighting back tears as i bury my face in his neck.

    now i can't figure out if this is some elaborate ploy for him to make me feel the way he knows i want so he can get in my pants (yes we did have sex that night and it was amazing). or if he's being genuine and we do have good communication and a growing friendship (that happens to lead to sex a lot of the time).

    as much as i want to believe him that he's really interested in more than sex as i am, even if just on a non romantic friendship level, I can't help but think that he's not. That he just wants to have sex with me. I'm not being cocky, not that i'm so amazing, but the two of us together have a sexual chemistry that i had never experienced before.

    now i lay in bed at night and wish he was lying next to me, holding me again like he has so many times before. i go through my day and do a pretty good job of not thinking about him, of admitting that he's not going to change for me. but then those few times throughout my week, i think of how much i love him, or want to love him, or want him to love me, and my heart stops if only for a second. i hate the pain that he causes me, and at the same time i love how alive he makes me feel.

    i've had plenty of meaningless encounters. i know what it's like. and i now that this is not meaningless. i can't help but think that on some level he feels the same way i do. it is so hard for me to try and move on from this dead end relationship when i constantly wonder if he is trying to deal with his emotionally crippling position and open himself up.

    what if i leave him, and another guy is in my place when he finds himself ready to love? what if i stick around and he never grows into wanting one guy forever, or for a long time? i'm so conflicted between trying to do the best thing for me and trying to do the best thing for a friend that i love dearly, and knowing what the right thing in either case is in the first place.

    *big sigh*

    if you read this entire thing i applaud you. in a world where most guys are more interested in reading "top/vers/bottom" than a lame forum post about a pathetic boys love life, i don't expect anyone to take a second look and i'm ok with that.

    again, if you made it to this point, i'm not seeking anything other than clarity by writing my thoughts. BUT if you happen to have a
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    Mar 06, 2009 11:11 PM GMT
    aww, brad...

    wait...that's not the dude you're talking about it your main profile pic is it? cause that's a girl.
  • EricLA

    Posts: 3461

    Mar 06, 2009 11:47 PM GMT
    Brad, life is rarely perfect, and this seems exemplified by your relationship.

    It seems to me you have two choices: one, end it because you can't have the relationship with him that you want; or two, let the current state of your relationship continue.

    It can be extremely tough to live life with uncertainty. To live "in the moment." But, it sounds you'd really like to be in this guy's life. Well, I say give it a try. Try to put your concepts of a relationship to the side and be with him as he's available. It probably won't be easy. You'll probably want more. But, you might be able to make it work, and it might make both of you happy.
  • imbrad

    Posts: 377

    Mar 06, 2009 11:47 PM GMT
    haha, no, she would never hurt me. lol

    p.s. i just realized that the end got chopped off. i was saying something to the effect of your comments are welcome blah blah. and i took back a statement i made at the beginnig about hatefulness. honestly, if you feel the need to say something nasty or cynical feel free to do that as well... consider it an invitation for eduction. uhm.. that's me the teacher talking, i consider everything an opportunity for education! icon_smile.gif *NERD*
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    Mar 06, 2009 11:53 PM GMT
    The thing is, in ten or twenty years time, you may just look back on this particular "encounter" and realise it was the best time of your life, even though you didn't get exactly what you wanted.

    Sometimes, it's the relationships that weren't perfect that turn out to be the most memorable or most exciting.
    You could possibly find another guy who ticks all the boxes on your perfect relationship checklist, only to find that the spark simply isn't there.

    Don't waste your life trying to find something that may never turn out to be what you really want. Enjoy the moment for what it is. Remember, you don't own another person, and trying to do so for the sake of finding your perfect relationship will never work.
  • imbrad

    Posts: 377

    Mar 06, 2009 11:55 PM GMT
    EricLA saidBrad, life is rarely perfect, and this seems exemplified by your relationship.

    It seems to me you have two choices: one, end it because you can't have the relationship with him that you want; or two, let the current state of your relationship continue.

    It can be extremely tough to live life with uncertainty. To live "in the moment." But, it sounds you'd really like to be in this guy's life. Well, I say give it a try. Try to put your concepts of a relationship to the side and be with him as he's available. It probably won't be easy. You'll probably want more. But, you might be able to make it work, and it might make both of you happy.


    i appreciate that... yeah, it's tough for me, and i really am more and more ok with the state of things. but i'm sure i'm not the only one that has those nights where you lie there wishing he was too... sigh...

    another question if anyone is interested. i had this discussion with my friend yesterday, cause her current boyfriend can't get it up, whereas her ex boyfriend was a rockstar in bed. what if your best sex is in the past? or more broadly how do you keep from compairing what could very well potentially be a great person to this person in the past that you genuinely love?
  • imbrad

    Posts: 377

    Mar 07, 2009 12:00 AM GMT
    cronker saidThe thing is, in ten or twenty years time, you may just look back on this particular "encounter" and realise it was the best time of your life, even though you didn't get exactly what you wanted.

    Sometimes, it's the relationships that weren't perfect that turn out to be the most memorable or most exciting.
    You could possibly find another guy who ticks all the boxes on your perfect relationship checklist, only to find that the spark simply isn't there.

    Don't waste your life trying to find something that may never turn out to be what you really want. Enjoy the moment for what it is. Remember, you don't own another person, and trying to do so for the sake of finding your perfect relationship will never work.


    i like what you said to... but i'd like to clarify that i'm not trying to find my perfect relationship for the sake of the relationship. i love him and genuinely care about him. i've been in situations where i was hung up on youthful lust. this is not that.

    but yes, the spark was there and regardless of what happens i will remember him and us forever and be thankful for the times we spent together.
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    Mar 07, 2009 12:58 AM GMT
    It can hurt like hell can't it?

    I dunno man, I'd say move on with your life.
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    Mar 07, 2009 1:12 AM GMT
    Oh my God, DTMFA.

    (Dump The Mother Fucker Already.)
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    Mar 07, 2009 1:23 AM GMT
    brokeback mountain revisted
  • UncleverName

    Posts: 741

    Mar 07, 2009 1:23 AM GMT
    I think he probably does have strong feelings for you, but whatever he's going through right now is making him unable (or at least, to think he's unable) to commit to you in a way that you want/need.

    Sounds pretty rough.

    I'd suggest accepting it for what it is (meaning the good and the bad) and moving on when you're ready. He'll change when he's ready, if ever, but I wouldn't wait for him.
  • somedaytoo

    Posts: 704

    Mar 07, 2009 1:35 AM GMT
    Play hard to get. See if he comes crawling. Then you'll know for sure.
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    Mar 07, 2009 1:47 AM GMT
    gansevoort_market saidOh my God, DTMFA.

    (Dump The Mother Fucker Already.)


    It's easy to say that, and it's probably just what most of us would do once we've become jaded veterans of the dating scene. But that's not where the OP is coming from.
    I had an experience like this and I know how hard it can be to accept that it can never be, when the highs are as high as this. Eventually the facts will have to be faced, but in the meantime let him savor what he can.
    It will be a lot easier if some more stable - if less ecstatic - potential bf comes into the picture soon.
  • Fusion98102

    Posts: 164

    Mar 07, 2009 2:06 AM GMT
    It's a crappy situation, but one that many people find themselves in... probably more than you know. Compatibility sexually doesnt always mean compatibility in a life partner. I mean, look at the number of divorced people who have kids. Clearly, there was a sexual attraction, but the love and companionship didnt last.

    Dont sell yourself short! If you enjoy spending time with him, then spend time with him. After all, it seems if the sex is great, then you want in his pants as much as he wants in yours, and that is fine. The best you can do is be upfront and honest about how you feel. Communication is key.

    Keep yourself open to others if this particular guy isnt making anything "official." Dont pass up other potentially good people because you are hung up on a guy who you have great sex with.

    Emotions can be misinterpreted, even by the people who are experiencing them - so they can certainly be misinterpreted by outsiders. What you describe as "love" may not be everyone's idea of what that emotion means. In fact, your definition of it may have changed over time, without you really knowing it. Just enjoy your time with this guy and if your life takes you somewhere else eventually, allow yourself to be taken on the ride.

    I wish you luck!
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    Mar 07, 2009 3:29 AM GMT
    IMBRAD,

    I know where you're coming from, with a couple guys. I just recently learned the lesson. You made numerous comments that show me you know the truth, but aren't facing it fully.

    You cant change anyone - he needs to change emotionally for his own health and he most likely wont for any reason you can give.

    He's already said he doesn't want a relationship - leave it at that. Don't consider the possibilities...they're endless. You need to consider YOU! You don't need to be waiting for anyone. I always tell people this: When it comes to dating men, they're is only one consistency - when they see something they want, they go for it. If they see something they want and don't go for it, they aren't ready for a relationship - probably your guy. You shouldn't want someone that isn't in it all the way.

    I have actually been able to maintain a friendship with an ex that was like this. I see him every couple months, and we e-mail weekly. Yes, everytime I'm around him I want to rip off his clothes, but eventually you learn to control yourself. The reason the relationship differs from the others that acted this way is because eventually he did just say, I care about you and am attracted to you, but we're looking for different things. It broke my heart, but I couldn't be upset with him for being honest.

    Your Mr. Perfect told you he doesn't want a relationship, just go with it. If you need to, just tell him sex is out of the question because it's too hard. You may want to just take a break from him and go on a couple dates with other guys and then start seeing him as a friend. I've found that really helps.

    No matter what you do, YOU COME FIRST!!!!!
  • calibro

    Posts: 8888

    Mar 07, 2009 3:49 AM GMT
    Either A, he is just using you for sex like you speculated, or B, which I think is more likely, he isn't in a position to be in a relationship like he said. Thing is, in either scenario, you can't win. You seem emotionally attached, and the continuing of sexual encounters under these premises seems to just devastate you more and more. Also, if he isn't in a position to be in a relationship, you don't want to get into one with him. Relationships are hard enough on their own even when both people want to be in them, so I doubt there's a chance it would work out if he isn't ready to begin with.

    The best you can do is explain your feelings honestly to him. If he means that much to you, and you to him, then he'll understand and still be able to continue being your friend.
  • Ritournelle

    Posts: 134

    Mar 07, 2009 3:50 AM GMT
    imbrad said

    another question if anyone is interested. i had this discussion with my friend yesterday, cause her current boyfriend can't get it up, whereas her ex boyfriend was a rockstar in bed. what if your best sex is in the past? or more broadly how do you keep from compairing what could very well potentially be a great person to this person in the past that you genuinely love?


    If this is the case, we all might as well kill ourselves now. My hand is a pretty decent sexual partner, however.

    I thought that the relationship that you described was how all relationships are. How dysfunctional is that? If it was me in your situation, it would progress as follows: I would give up on the relationship. A week later, I would go to a bar that I rarely go to with friends. The guy happens to be there with another guy, who is his new boyfriend. They seem very happy together. When you talk to them, he seems to act like the self-described desire to not get committed was never true. I then would probably drink like ten shots, cause a huge scene, and sob on the street for awhile. But seriously, if this happens, it is one of the few experiences that feels like being stabbed in the heart (actually in the heart, now I understand the connection between love and the human heart), it will be pretty devastating if he gets with someone else.
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    Mar 07, 2009 3:53 AM GMT
    While I am not a doctor, and I don't know his full military history, I will say it is very common for vet's returning from a war zone to have Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. Avoidance, and disappearing behaviors are very, very common, as is avoiding intimate relationships even though wanting them badly. I don't know that this is the case, but I suspect it's possible.

    Regardless, PTSD is a very, very difficult condition to treat and people with it often destroy those around them and go from one intense relationship to the next as they seek a connection with something real, but then run from it as soon as they find it. If this is the case, know right now you can't fix him or heal him.

    I say this not to excuse his behavior but instead so you understand that the problem has absolutely nothing to do with you. It's causes are complex and far beyond your ability to do anything about it. It's not because of you in any way that he doesn't want a relationship. Sometimes in these situations it's really easy to ask yourself "what's wrong with me, what part of me isn't enough". I just want you to know that nothing of the sort is the case.

    For your own sanity and future, I suggest you begin to open to the possibility of seeing other people, then you start doing it. Most of the time when things fall apart it's so something better can fall together. The longer you keep yourself tied to this emotional cluster fuck the longer you will ultimately delay your own unhappiness. Even if it's not PTSD and it's some other mental or emotional issue, by beginning to see other people you will quickly determine if he has any interest in coming around or if he would rather let you go then face the scary possibility of a relationship. Either way you win.

    Best of luck to you bro. Hang tough, tough times never last but tough people do.



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    Mar 07, 2009 4:00 AM GMT
    Wow, Brad. Your story is intense and crappy. I'm sorry you're having to go through this. But we are where we are.

    There are probably and endless number of ways you could try to move through this situation. But I think three that have been brought up by you and others probably warrant the most consideration:

    You could maintain the status quo (i.e. good friends who wind up having excellent sex pretty often). The problem here seems to be that you are definitely not getting what you really (i.e. a fuller relationship) but your friend may be getting just what he wants (i.e. your companionship and sex on demand). Maybe eventually things would move in your direction, but I would guess the odds are low.

    You could put tight boundaries around your friendship. Meet up regularly talk, hang out, but no sex unless you honestly judge that your friend is ready and able to move things onto the plane you are seeking. This will require willpower and could lead to friction, but it would allow you to keep in close touch with your friend in case he becomes more capable and willing to be in a more comprehensive relationship. My other concern about this approach is that, to the extent you are waiting around to see in what direction your friend is moving, you may find it difficult to approach other potential relationships with the energy and commitment they would need to develop into what you seek.

    You could also back off substantially. Lick your wounds, shed your tears and accept that you will likely never have the sort of relationship you want with this guy. My hunch is this will hurt - alot. And my experience is that once you allow yourself to grieve for the loss of what you had and for what you wanted but couldn't have, you may well view the guy you are seeing now in a different light that will all but rule out a serious relationship with him going forward. [I was recently on the other side of this kind of situation. I held back from a guy who really felt for me for too long, he gave up, then I realized what I had done, tried to fix and found that it was too late.] If you go down this route, be prepared for it possibly to take quite a while before you are able to approach a potential new relationship with an open heart and a clear head.

    Whatever you choose, I wish you well. I think you are thinking about this situation very clearly and if you keep listening to both you head and your heart and you can accept that whatever pain you feel is survivable, you will come through this fine.

    Best of luck.
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    Mar 07, 2009 4:18 AM GMT
    imbrad, I have to agree with Calibro on this. It's tough to have to walk away from someone you really care about. However, the man is not wanting what you need - an exclusive, emotionally open relationship. Good luck!
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    Mar 07, 2009 4:40 AM GMT
    Hey Imbrad,

    1 x 0 = 0. You want a relationship (1) and he doesn't (0). That equals no relationship.

    So it sounds like you can either keep falling deeper in love with him and hoping he'll change (not likely) or reframe your situation and enjoy it for what it is (great sex and part-time companionship on HIS terms) or walk away and free that spot up for another relationship.

    What's your number one priority? If it's a relationship, then this isn't it. If crazy mind-bending sex is your number one priority, then you've already got it.

    I have had intense crazy sex with guys who were completely unable to have relationships and had relationships with guys where the sex was not that great and everything in between. It's hard to find it all in one spot (or at least that has been my own experience to date.)

    I definitely agree with Looknrnd who said, "you first."

    Decide what is most important TO YOU: f/t relationship or great sex with somebody who can't commit? You already have your answers. The only issue is that it looks like "great sex NOW" vs. "a relationship with some unknown person at some unknown time in the future." That's what causes the grief for us men I think. We want what we want - great sex and companionship NOW.

    Good luck man. Let us know how things go.

  • imbrad

    Posts: 377

    Mar 07, 2009 8:05 AM GMT
    what great insights! it's funny how no one really said anything we don't all already know... but hearing it in a different way or from someone else really helps me a lot.

    and i'm shocked there was only one brokeback mountain comment!!! lol

    yeah, it really is so hard. especially since my non-romantic feelings for him as a person will not let me just leave him (though i want to) right now. there is no way i can understand what he's going through. what he's told me is really messed up as far as Post Traumatic Stress goes. i wish i could be there for him. it is such a shame that this war (and others) leave so many great people crippled in more than just a physical way.

    i'm not trying to make excuses, but living in a small town with a VERY close gay community, everyone knows what is going on. and it's not like i can go out and find another guy. slim pickins here in SW colorado.

    I guess timing is just a bitch. But i will say that the other night when i told him how hard it was for me for him to act the way he was was really liberating. Communication IS the key to any successeful relationship platonic or otherwise and i'm glad that so many of you suggested this to me. i was beginning to lose hope that human beings were incapable of healthy communication anymore!
  • junknemesis

    Posts: 682

    Mar 07, 2009 8:13 AM GMT
    You said something about him being in Iraq? He's a military guy? I was in the Army, and I know how much it can be frightening to want a relationship with a guy and then be so scared they'll (military) will find out. Maybe its something there. Maybe he loves you but is afraid that you could get hurt too if the wrong person finds out about you two.

    Of course, this is only theory, but from personal experience, being gay in the military can be difficult. I always felt I was behind enemy lines, and that at any wrng step everything would come crashing down destroying everything I had tried to work for. Of course that ended up happening anyway and it had nothing to do with me being gay!
  • imbrad

    Posts: 377

    Mar 07, 2009 8:29 AM GMT
    no, this one's out and open now. just a lot of PTSD... i shouldn't say 'just'. you know what i mean.... awww... i've tried to be so eloquent in this thread... well, there goes that!
  • junknemesis

    Posts: 682

    Mar 07, 2009 8:39 AM GMT
    Eloquence is unnessesary. I understand what you mean. I know of thoes who suffer PTSD and emotionally they are raw and vourlnerable and afraid. Heck technically I had Post-Traumatic-Stress for a while. Not the disorder, but all the symptoms, but on a more temporary basis. In your situation, I would assure him that I wouldnt leave him, observe his reaction to various things in his life, and work from there. Every day may seem a case-by-case scenerio. Be his friend. And if you love him, it'll be worth it.

    However, I have only loved those who couldnt love me back, so I don't know how good anything I have to say is. I'm just trying to listen to what my heart says in responce to your story, and that usually is the best way for me to do it when dealing with other people and their struggles.

    I do want to help though, and I hope some measure of comfort, or a spark of an idea is struckby the things I have said.