Just recieved this article from men's health.

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    Apr 09, 2007 5:27 PM GMT
    http://www.menshealth.com/cda/article.do?site=MensHealth&channel=nutrition&category=vitamins.supplements&conitem=7ccdeab4458ad010VgnVCM10000013281eac____&page=0&print=true&url=http://www.menshealth.com/cda/article.do?site=MensHealth&channel=nutrition&category=vitamins.supplements&conitem=7ccdeab4458ad010VgnVCM10000013281eac____&page=0

    I'm starting to become more serious about weight lifting and am sort of considering going into body building, but am not sure. Are there any personal experiences with creatine that will help in understanding this article.

    Also, I heard awhile ago that consuming the standard intake of water a day is similar to taking creatine, can anyone else back this up? Or did I just dream that.

    Thanks for your help and stories.

    Kyle
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    Apr 09, 2007 7:28 PM GMT
    I've been on creatine a couple of times. And while I've noticed some significant gains while on it...once I go off, I tend to lose the mass... This is because one of creatines main effects is edema, or intramuscular water retention. This causes muscle cells to swell, looking larger.

    The only thing you really really need to be careful for with creatine is making sure you drink lots of water...creatine will dehydrate you a lot, sequestering water to your muscles more then the rest of your body... This can have effects on liver and kidney function. This is why some people suggest not to stay on creatine for more then an 8 week cycle...

    Another bad thing that I've heard about creatine, and thankfully I've never suffered the effects of, is bad dirrhea, which can dehydrate you even more...so you have to be carefull.

    I'm no expert on creatine by any means, but the only real benefit creatine does have, is that it helps to provide ATP more readily for utilization by muscle cells...This means that your rest time between sets will decrease, you'll have more energy, and thus, be able to gain lean muscle mass faster...

    I've been on creatine monohydrate, and creatine from creatine-ethyl-ester... you can get it at GNC under the name CE2 Platinum...you can stack it with the NO2 Platinum Hemodilator...

    I got pretty good results with these two, without as much water retention...and my endurance increased, and recovery time decreased...it's worth testing out...

    Hope that helps
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    Apr 09, 2007 7:46 PM GMT
    Hey guys, Jeff from RealJock.com here. We've got an interesting (I hope) article on creatine: Creatine Overview that might help answer some of your questions. Also, FYI, one of our writers is currently working on a piece on protein powders that includes some additional information on creatine; that one will be up in the next couple of weeks.

    Personally, I've used it before and seen very significant gains. That said, it made me pretty sick to my stomach, so I stopped using it.

    Jeff
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    Apr 09, 2007 8:18 PM GMT
    I've used creatine, and it did give me a little more energy for my workouts, but it looked and felt like most of the water retention was in the outer skin and fat layer. It makes me feel bloated and flabby, so I stopped taking it.
  • GQjock

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    Apr 09, 2007 10:13 PM GMT
    There is a lot of debate on the use of creatine monohydrate
    ...What does seem to be the case is that the way it works is to increase water retention in the muscles of the body
    this doesn't seem too good a reason to be taking it
    what the people who are hawking it also say is that it increases the availability of ATP (the main energy packet the body uses during exercise) this is where the controversy comes in
    my say in it is that you should go as natural as possible esp at this early stage
    lift eat right ... trial and error
    if you start takin all these chemicals you'll never be able to get away from them
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    Apr 17, 2007 7:36 PM GMT
    Hummm... Not quite the right information, all around...

    Creatine is a nitrogenous organic acid that acts as a phosphate transport molecue. It works very well for strength training by providing fast twitch muscle fibers with phosphate groups for making ADP into ATP, and ATP is energy. Fast twitch fibers, as many of you already know, does not go through the complete Krebs Cycle and does not use oxygen for energy. It uses glycogen (sugar) and creatine phosphate locally stored in muscle fibers for energy. Creatine is natrually produced by the liver and stored in the fast twitch muscle fibers. Some small amounts are stored in the brain, heart, and testes for sperm cells (yes sperm celss use sugar and creatine for energy.)

    HOWEVER, incorrect supplimentation of creatine can be a rpblem... Creatine is a compound made from various amino acids binded with ionic bonds, therefore can be altered easily with changes in temperature and PH. So if creatine is mixed in a solution that is hot, acidic, carbonated (CO2 H2O = H2CO3 carbonic acid), caffinated, it can turn it into CREATININE, a waste product for the kidneys... That is why creatinine is a measure of healthy kidney fucntion.

    So creatine DOES work, and works VERY WELL, but make sure youare taking creatine and not creatinine...
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    Apr 17, 2007 7:50 PM GMT
    Forgot to mention... Some research shows prolonged supplimentation can decrease your body's own production of endogenous creatine...
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    Apr 17, 2007 8:00 PM GMT
    Also I forgot to mention a VERY important note..

    Since creatine is eventually broken down into creatinine to be excreated by the kidneys, if you already have a high level of blood creatinine level, that is an indication of impaired kidney function. Then DO NOT take creatine...

    But if you have no kidney issues and wish to take creatine, it would do you no good with muscle strength building if you change creatine into creatinine right there in your drink... You just gave your kidneys more work to do without getting any benefit to your muscles..
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    Apr 17, 2007 11:15 PM GMT
    rhythm1438 is right about creatine. It basically pulls water into the muscles and you have to drink a lot to compenstate for water loss to other parts of your body--so drink a lot. As for it's effects, it probably varies from person to person. I have used it and I gain maybe a few pounds and feel a bit stronger (although it could be psychological). Others claim they have gained as much as 25 pounds. If you are going to take a supplement, creatine is prbably one of the safer ones with the fewest side effects.
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    Apr 17, 2007 11:18 PM GMT
    I should also mention that the only good creatine is manufactured in the United States and Germany, according to many health and fitness professionals. So if you come across creatine in the store and it reads "made in China" or "made in Britain" don't buy it. It's most likely bone powder.
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    Apr 17, 2007 11:43 PM GMT
    Humm..taht is also not quite the story either..

    Of course creatine would pull water into tissue where it is stored, that is just to reach osmotic equilibrium.

    Increased water content does increase the size of specific mucle fibers.

    But the reason why you shuld drink more water is for the following reason beyond estabilishing osmetic equilibrium: Creatinine. As mentioned before, it is excreted by the kidneys. What do you need to excrete any thing from the kidneys? Water.

    After taking creatine, your blood creatinine level will be hihger, and if you kidneys glomerular filtration system is functioning properly, you will need water to excret it...

    So the dehydration is not so much due to the equilibrium equilibrium, but rather a function of the kidneys flushing our creatinine.
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    Apr 17, 2007 11:59 PM GMT
    And if it is just equalizing internal osmotic equilibrium, then the excessive water you dringk would stay in your system, causing fluid overload and hypertension...

    Guys taking creatine would also notice they urinate more.. So the dehydraton they experience is from the kidneys using water to flush out creatinine, not due to internal equalizing of osmotic equilibrium.

    That is the same reason you cant drink sea water to hydrate... Yes, you do take in excess water... but the excess salt needs excess WATER to be flushed out. You can drink a lot of water, but you need water to flush out whatever you are taking into your system that is disturbing equilibrium...
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    Apr 18, 2007 12:06 AM GMT
    Oh I meant to point out, if you drink water with something the body can store, like sugar, you kidneys maynot ahve to flush it out..blood glucose, with insuline, can be changed and stored as glucogen inthe liver and muscles.. But if yoaure diabetic, then the blood glucose remains in the blood serum..and of course again, your kidneys will need water (increased thurst) to flush it out, and there would be sugar in your urine..hence being "diabetic."
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    Apr 18, 2007 3:05 PM GMT
    So, for those of us who are not doctors and chemists, creatine works to draw and hold water in the muscles, but one should be sure to keep the body well hydrated to allow for this water displacement.
  • MikemikeMike

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    Apr 18, 2007 6:24 PM GMT
    Ego maybe u should ask how many professional bodybuilders have done a few cycles of steroids. I do not believe in taking any chemicals at all, but I also have no intention of becoming a professional bodybuilder. It is estimated that over 85% of pro bodybuilders have used steriods- not to mention HGH.
  • MikemikeMike

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    Apr 18, 2007 6:35 PM GMT
    Kyle go natural- the only thing I supplement is protein!!!!!
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    Apr 18, 2007 10:00 PM GMT
    Well in short..

    Creatine works mainly because it supplies muscles with fuel in the concentration that you cannot acheive by eating or training alone. Increased water content is not the key reason why the muscle gets stronger.

    And you drink water to flush out the waste by products of creatine...
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    Apr 18, 2007 10:05 PM GMT
    Just holding water in muscle tissue alone will not make the muscle stronger.

    The water being "displaced" is the water you pee out, not the water taht is in the muscles.
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    Apr 18, 2007 10:20 PM GMT
    I don't think people are reading carefully what i wrote..

    Urbanguy, that is not the correct information...

    Creatine = fuel for muscles, that is how it works.

    Dehydration from creatine: NOT from "displacement" of water from creatine.

    Dehydarion happens because: creaTINE turns into waste product creaTININE. You need to pee out creaTININE.
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    Apr 19, 2007 4:58 AM GMT
    Again, creatine is NOT creatinine.
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    Apr 19, 2007 7:30 AM GMT
    Dude.....

    At 6'0", and 160#.......#1 thing you need is CALORIES. EAT until it hurts, then, eat some more.

    No amount of creatine is going to help you where you are now. You make get some muscle loading, but, it's very apparently you greatly need to up your caloric intake.

    EAT.
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    Apr 19, 2007 7:33 AM GMT
    Seriously, if you aren't eating enough and are doing tons of cardio work, you're not going to make musclar gains. It's that simple.

    You need to decide. It's very hard to have both all that cardio (I read your profile), and make muscular gains (common sense 101, really).

    You need good solid food.
  • hotversguy

    Posts: 155

    Jul 20, 2007 5:09 AM GMT
    I'm thinking you probably lost people at Kreb's cycle. I know what it is but it still sounds like something for which one should purchase a cream and new sheets.