AIG Bonuses

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 19, 2009 8:20 PM GMT
    No matter how you feel about AIG paying the huge bonuses, everyone should be outraged at what our government has just done. The House of Rep. just passed the largest, and clearly unconstitutional, assault on our personal liberties by passing a Bill that specifically targets a segment of the private sector. The BIll just passed essentially confiscates the entire bonus to everyone that does not voluntarily turn it back. In case anyone forgets, this is exactly what the framers of the consitiution were working against due to the exact same actions of the British Parliment. Article 1 was specifically written to make it impossible for our Government to do the same thing.

    What is even more outrageous is the arrogance of this government in thinking that we as citizens are so damn stupid as not to see this circus of indignitation from Washington as to be nothing but a CYA (Cover Your Ass)because they either didn't care to read or take time to read what they themselves wrote into the Stimulus Bill. Everyone from the Congress right up to the President knew months ahead of time these bonuses were going to be payed.

    If this stands and passes the Senate, then Americas greatest days are definitly behind us.
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    Mar 19, 2009 9:46 PM GMT
    houstonmuscle10 saidNo matter how you feel about AIG paying the huge bonuses, everyone should be outraged at what our government has just done. The House of Rep. just passed the largest, and clearly unconstitutional, assault on our personal liberties by passing a Bill that specifically targets a segment of the private sector. The BIll just passed essentially confiscates the entire bonus to everyone that does not voluntarily turn it back. In case anyone forgets, this is exactly what the framers of the consitiution were working against due to the exact same actions of the British Parliment. Article 1 was specifically written to make it impossible for our Government to do the same thing.

    What is even more outrageous is the arrogance of this government in thinking that we as citizens are so damn stupid as not to see this circus of indignitation from Washington as to be nothing but a CYA (Cover Your Ass)because they either didn't care to read or take time to read what they themselves wrote into the Stimulus Bill. Everyone from the Congress right up to the President knew months ahead of time these bonuses were going to be payed.

    If this stands and passes the Senate, then Americas greatest days are definitly behind us.


    "America's greatest days are definitely behind us?" Are you kidding me with this hyperbole?

    I would agree with you that they should not be taxed, they should just be sent to jail until the money is repaid
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    Mar 19, 2009 9:49 PM GMT
    "America's greatest days are definitely behind us?" Are you kidding me with this hyperbole?

    I would agree with you that they should not be taxed, they should just be sent to jail until the money is repaid

    You would have to read the contracts before you could act.

    Just think of all the sports athletes that make millions then don't perform. Matter of fact society is full of people making big bonuses and not performing!

    The compensation methodology needs to be re-vamped but the AIG employees are easy targets for a much bigger issue.
  • Roch_Athlete

    Posts: 45

    Mar 19, 2009 9:53 PM GMT
    Absolutely correct, Houston...and blackguy..you're clueless. Why should they be sent to jail? Have they been accused, tried, convicted of a crime? What crime would it be? Yes, they were trading in risky and unregulated securities, but committed no crime as far as has been reported. They had valid contracts with AIG. TARP money received by AIG didn't negate the contracts, but bankruptcy would have. So before you jump on the lynching bandwagon why don't you do a bit of research?
  • OutdoorAdvent...

    Posts: 361

    Mar 19, 2009 9:53 PM GMT
    I sorta like Senator Grassley's suggestion about what these guys should do. For those who missed it...

    "I would suggest the first thing that would make me feel a little bit better toward them if they'd follow the Japanese example and come before the American people and take that deep bow and say, 'I'm sorry,' and then either do one of two things: resign or go commit suicide," Grassley said.

    http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2009/03/grassley_suicid.html
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 19, 2009 9:54 PM GMT
    I agree people need to start earning what they get paid.

    [quote][cite][/cite]The compensation methodology needs to be re-vamped but the AIG employees are easy targets for a much bigger issue.[/quote]

    However since these companies can't do that themselves and taking our money, then yes I'm all for this tax. Or jail time for those who don't want to pay the tax..

    I also think this and a few other recent laws are setting America right for a change. The greed that has controled this country for too long.
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    Mar 19, 2009 10:02 PM GMT
    Welcome to the USSR - Unites States Socialist Republic
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    Mar 19, 2009 10:05 PM GMT
    Roch_Athlete saidAbsolutely correct, Houston...and blackguy..you're clueless. Why should they be sent to jail? Have they been accused, tried, convicted of a crime? What crime would it be? Yes, they were trading in risky and unregulated securities, but committed no crime as far as has been reported. They had valid contracts with AIG. TARP money received by AIG didn't negate the contracts, but bankruptcy would have. So before you jump on the lynching bandwagon why don't you do a bit of research?


    Have you ever looked up the idea behind what a bonus is?

    You get a bonus from the profits generated by the company. There was no profits so no bonus. Simple!

    Even as some idiots have stated that they were retention bonuses. Well guess what over 75% of these idiots who ran the company into the ground are no longer there. And even if they were there - they should be bloody well fired!

    So :

    1 not only were they incompetent and got a bonus when there were no profits generated to get a bonus from

    2. they are no longer with the company therefore nullifying their retention

    Oh stop - with there was a contract crap!!!!!!!!! Contracts are renegotiated all of the time. It's done for policemen and firemen. Heck some of these same people are talking about tearing up the contracts of the auto workers and paying the workers in that industry what people in lesser developed countries are being paid.

    That fact that you all think that these white collar crooks contracts are somehow sacrosanct and the auto workers and police men and firemen aren't show an amazing lack of commonsense. No wonder the rest of the world thinks we Americans are stupid!

    I must ask you - are you a rush limbug listener?
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    Mar 19, 2009 10:07 PM GMT
    animanimus saidas i understand it, bonus recipients threatened that if they hadn't gotten their bonuses they would have used inside information to bring aig down and in doing so crash this country's and the world's economies.

    so instead of the current course, should this government simply prosecute for extortion? high treason?


    More bullshit - Their contract would have had rules prohibiting this sort of acts. This is just a silly red herring

    And further more - simply take their threats to the FBI and let them haul their asses into jail!
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    Mar 19, 2009 10:09 PM GMT
    hotshotcdn saidWelcome to the USSR - Unites States Socialist Republic


    So for people to be compensated for the actual work they do is socialism!!! hmmmmm well come to think of it. Perhaps it should be. Should be like in China where these executives would have been taken out behind a wall and shot!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 19, 2009 10:12 PM GMT
    Rewards for failure.

    How does that work then?
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    Mar 19, 2009 10:15 PM GMT
    i'm not outraged one damn bit. they should get my money back from the assholes that ruined the world economy in the first place. the bonus is that their sorry asses still have jobs.
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    Mar 19, 2009 10:18 PM GMT
    the bonus is that their sorry asses still have jobs.

    Exactly. I have never known a situation where I have so many of my friends and ex work colleagues who have lost their jobs and they don't work in the financial services sector but this crisis has hit them badly.

    Bonuses indeed.
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    Mar 19, 2009 10:23 PM GMT
    I think the anger over the bonuses is justified, but the problem is how Uncle Sam is dealing with it.
    They could have / should have included "no bonus" language in the Act and they didn't. Sadly, it wasn't left out because nobody thought of putting it in...must have been some other reason of which I'm not well-read enough to say.

    Confiscating the bonuses is popular w/ the public, but it's almost mob mentality over individual rights - a precedent that could be dangerous.
  • Tennis_Tom

    Posts: 59

    Mar 19, 2009 10:34 PM GMT
    dancerjack saidi'm not outraged one damn bit. they should get my money back from the assholes that ruined the world economy in the first place. the bonus is that their sorry asses still have jobs.


    the bonus is that we aren't clawing their eyes out with our nails
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    Mar 19, 2009 10:35 PM GMT
    AIG's actions demonstrates to me a company with balls. Where can I apply?
  • jlly_rnchr

    Posts: 1759

    Mar 19, 2009 10:41 PM GMT
    First of all, I can't believe the defense of AIG in this thread.

    It is really shameful what they did here, but if it was all the company's money, I'd be pissed that I wasn't better paid and move on. A company can and should do whatever they please with their own payroll.

    But this is taxpayer money they were given. We are literally paying individual employees millions of dollars. I think I read the other day that 73 employees were given at least 1 million dollars. I don't care if they did a good job (which I'm guessing they didn't) or a bad job (more likely). The bottom line is, that money was given to them so that they could survive their own mess, totally out of necessity for the company to carry on. If they had been asking for a bailout so they could afford to get paid, they wouldn't have gotten federal assistance. So they mislead, in a way.

    If you can defend the right for a company to do what they want with their money, then you should equally defend the right of the federal government to do what they want with their money, including taking it back when parties involved mislead and misused. Whether it's spelled out explicitly in the bill or not, we all know that money was not intended to function as bonuses.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 19, 2009 10:42 PM GMT
    Private sector? Umm...AIG didn't earn the bailout, we paid for it.

    KINDA PUBLIC NOW
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    Mar 19, 2009 10:50 PM GMT
    From what I Geithner , let's be FRANK about who created this mess to begin with and not DODDge the issue. Let's RAINES them in before throwing STENY more money at the problem! Then maybe PELOSI some positive results.
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Mar 19, 2009 10:56 PM GMT
    houstonmuscle, a few points about your rant:

    1) The Constitution is for the people, by the people. In no way, shape or form is a business entity a person, so your claim about the new legislation as "unconstitutional" is unfounded on that principle alone.

    2) Like Rugger mentioned, AIG is 80% owned by the government. Hardly a private enterprise anymore.

    3) If AIG doesn't like it, they can return every penny of the 3-times received bailout money that I, you and every taxpayer has paid for. They cannot and will not have it both ways.

    4) Welcome to Re-regulation!

  • Tiller66

    Posts: 380

    Mar 19, 2009 11:09 PM GMT
    Look the guys at AIG only did ther'er jobs conning people out of they'er money and doing what they wanted with it.The ones that failed to act was the government all they had to do is say if you take TARP money there are no bonuses at all no matter what date they got assitence.No matter how bad it feels to taken to the cleaners I thought they only did what they always do live off the money of others.
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Mar 19, 2009 11:13 PM GMT
    Can you clarify who's living off the money of others?
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    Mar 19, 2009 11:23 PM GMT
    coolarmydude saidCan you clarify who's living off the money of others?
    .

    From reading Tiller's post I would say he means the execs at AIG
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 19, 2009 11:24 PM GMT
    How come I can never find a job where I am rewarded for my incompetence. WTF is wrong with this picture!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    And I don't mean rewarded by being fired either!!!!!!!!!
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    Mar 19, 2009 11:27 PM GMT
    animanimus said
    Blackguy4you saidMore bullshit - Their contract would have had rules prohibiting this sort of acts. This is just a silly red herring

    And further more - simply take their threats to the FBI and let them haul their asses into jail!


    right, good thinking. now that you mention it, i've rarely ever seen a contract that doesn't say ":extortion not allowed"

    because, as you know, good people are always upfront and honest about such intention.
    .

    Exactly!
    They could have hauled them up on corporate terroism, whitemail, corporate espionage, so many areas for them to go to jail...

    I swear sometimes I think the nutcases are running the assylum!!!!!!!icon_biggrin.gificon_rolleyes.gif