The Power... Of God

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    Mar 23, 2009 11:18 PM GMT
    For the sake of argument let's just say that there is a god that is almighty and all powerful. Now seeing as this being is all powerful he can destroy everything at will. Now since he is all powerful he can also create, let's say, a rock that he cannot destroy or effect in any way. So if he creates this rock that he can not use his power on then he is no longer all powerful.

    Discuss.
  • Timbales

    Posts: 13993

    Mar 24, 2009 12:59 AM GMT
    The Rock of Eternity?

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    Mar 24, 2009 3:03 AM GMT
    growingbig saidFor the sake of argument let's just say that there is a god that is almighty and all powerful. Now seeing as this being is all powerful he can destroy everything at will. Now since he is all powerful he can also create, let's say, a rock that he cannot destroy or effect in any way. So if he creates this rock that he can not use his power on then he is no longer all powerful.

    Discuss.


    If God is smart enough to be all powerful initially, I would find it hard to believe he would be so foolish as to create a rock he could not destroy.

    That's my take on it!
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    Mar 24, 2009 3:08 AM GMT
    danielalbertjoseph saidGod still remains all powerful because God gave the rock "free will" to do what it wants. In other words the power is still in God's hands, just as much as it is now in the rock's (God's creation).

    If God was to dominate & control over the rock, God would be wasting energy (and therefore power on it). You can't control & dominate without giving your own power away.


    Since this is in many ways, what I was going to say! I second that!!
  • swimbikerun

    Posts: 2835

    Mar 24, 2009 3:14 AM GMT
    danielalbertjoseph saidGod still remains all powerful because God gave the rock "free will" to do what it wants. In other words the power is still in God's hands, just as much as it is now in the rock's (God's creation).

    If God was to dominate & control over the rock, God would be wasting energy (and therefore power on it). You can't control & dominate without giving your own power away.
    But this is more of an evasion.
    Rocks do not possess "free will". It is an inanimate object and follows the law of gravity, exterior to itself.
    Has a rock ever demonstrated its "free will" by flying upward against gravitational forces? No.
    Also, you introduce the concept of wasting energy. Does not your Sky God possess infinite sources of energy? Doesn't that, therefore mean there is no such thing as wasting an infinite source of energy?
  • joggerva

    Posts: 731

    Mar 24, 2009 4:15 AM GMT
    You say he is almighty and all powerful. So he starts the hypothetical situation as more powerful than anything in existence. Okay.

    Then, you say that he can choose to create something more powerful than himself (you say a rock, why not another being to make things really interesting?). Well, I would think that the law of conservation of energy might prevent this, but assuming that your god is not bound by physical laws, okay.

    So, if the precedent is set that he can create something more powerful than himself, all he has to do is create a self-destructing exposive MORE powerful than the rock to destroy the rock and itself at the same time.

    Now he is again the most powerful thing in existence.

    Or he could create a piece of paper powerful enough to cover the rock. Of course, then he'd have to create a really powerful pair of scissors...
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 24, 2009 4:17 AM GMT
    the OP just described the human spirit :p






    btw, this sentence is untrue.



  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 24, 2009 4:20 AM GMT
    I'd have thought that an all-knowing god would have thought it through a bit more. icon_biggrin.gif
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    Mar 24, 2009 4:24 AM GMT
    growingbig saidFor the sake of argument let's just say that there is a god that is almighty and all powerful. Now seeing as this being is all powerful he can destroy everything at will. Now since he is all powerful he can also create, let's say, a rock that he cannot destroy or effect in any way. So if he creates this rock that he can not use his power on then he is no longer all powerful.

    Discuss.


    He is still all powerful because he obviously has made the rock in his image. It is something that will never cease, unlike all his other creations. This rock will last and he can look on it for as long as he lives, which will be for eternity. The rock may not yield to this supreme being's power, but he will also never yield to its. The rock is but a reflection of this supreme being and without him would not exist. He is god and and it is god's rock. .
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    Mar 24, 2009 4:33 AM GMT
    As long as I can drink in church, I don't care what god is.
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    Mar 24, 2009 4:47 AM GMT
    growingbig saidFor the sake of argument let's just say that there is a god that is almighty and all powerful. Now seeing as this being is all powerful he can destroy everything at will. Now since he is all powerful he can also create, let's say, a rock that he cannot destroy or effect in any way. So if he creates this rock that he can not use his power on then he is no longer all powerful.

    Discuss.


    Growingbig, your logic is flawed in its premise as you are speaking from a human perspective. Since humanity is not infinite, almighty, all knowing, and all powerful, we see our universe as having limitations. That is the basis of your argument. You believe that there is the ability to create something more powerful than an infinitely powerful being. But if God is infinitely powerful, there is nothing beyond him. Infinity cannot be surpassed. So to assume that God would create something more powerful than himself is beyond the very nature of what it means to be infinitely powerful. It can't and won't be done. So to think that's a possibility is just folly.

    Besides, if he is almighty, that would directly imply that he must also be all knowing. One can't be almighty and also be an idiot, you know? Therefore, if God is all knowing, he would also clearly see that making a rock more powerful than he is would show what a total jack ass he is for doing something so galactically stupid and proving to everyone, once and for all, that he's not all that spectacular and all powerful as everyone has made him out to be. Ergo, why would he do something so absurdly idiotic in the first place?
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    Mar 24, 2009 4:54 AM GMT
    But God gave us the power of free agency.
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    Mar 24, 2009 4:58 AM GMT
    WWOD?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 24, 2009 5:03 AM GMT
    WWOD?
  • triniboy

    Posts: 305

    Mar 24, 2009 5:05 AM GMT
    The rock has then become his own God-made God?!?
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    Mar 24, 2009 5:42 AM GMT
    This is easy for Sedative. The rock he created cannot be destroyed in the future, but it can be eliminated in the past. Sedative travels to the past and prevents Himself from creating the rock, thus combating one paradox with another, the hallmark of true omnipotence.
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    Mar 24, 2009 5:45 AM GMT
    The only possible way to comprehend god and god's power is to realize god is incomprehensible. Since we cannot comprehend god, and god's surreal nature means god perceives us and our reality in an equally incomprehensible way, I say we give up trying, just be happy and stop hurting each other in god's name, and figure it out when we die.
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    Mar 24, 2009 5:47 AM GMT
    I can completely comprehend God. Attempts at comprehension by weak-minded individuals should only be undertaken with the assistance of a professional. Don't make this mistake again.
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    Mar 24, 2009 6:09 AM GMT
    That rock looks like the butt dart that splashed down a week after I ate that entire loaf of pepper jack.
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    Mar 24, 2009 6:29 AM GMT
    .....................................................Armadura de Virgo Pictures, Images and Photos
    I pray this thread will come to some sort of blasted conclusion, but I seriously doubt it will!
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    Mar 24, 2009 6:50 AM GMT
    Why are you giving this for us to discuss ?? it's just an idea for paradox nothing more..

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    Mar 24, 2009 7:00 AM GMT
    The initial fallacy is in believing that an all powerful or omnipotent being can create. Since when did power equal creativity? Or when did power give me the ability to create a Picasso or da Vinci, or any other sort of object, or when did artists and other creative types becomes brokers of power, to attack the question from the other side?

    What is power? What is creativity? And how do the two become intertwined. And how does one's access to power make one able to create or call into being? And just because I can create doesn't give me ultimate power over what I create -- it tends to have a life of it's own.

    There is a dichotomy between creating and power, and to create is to some degree to relinquish power. I create, and that which I create has a life of it's own, or to some degree and independance -- whether it be a being, a work of art, or merely this thread, it takes on meaning beyond me or that I may or may not have intended. To put it another way: power is to hoard, and creativity is to give up. How to make those two come together, I don't know, and don't think they can, nor do I think they have anything to do with spirits whatever that/those may be, but again the question is how one can equate power and creativity as one and the same.
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    Mar 24, 2009 7:13 AM GMT
    I'll let Godman settle this!

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    Mar 24, 2009 8:28 AM GMT
    You sick sodomites! You need Jesus in your life .... desperately! Go to church. Repent. Only Jesus can save you from your disgusting misery and eternal Hell-fire and brimestone.

    Jesus Love You! And so do I!
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    Mar 24, 2009 9:10 AM GMT
    GOD HATES FAGS

    See for yourself...


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