FORUMS > Performance Eating Forum Rules

Hi,

I have read some books about vegan and vegetarian nutrition. It is difficult to find material about vegan and sport and it is even more difficult about vegan and BB. I have found some sites but i would like to hear from personal experience.

Does anybody have experience and a great body? what is your vegan eating plan for muscles?

thanks

Subwoufer

lots of rice and beans, heh.

No personal experience, but I do have a vegan friend in Philly who is fit and has a very nice(but not huge) body. In case you haven't stumbled across these:
http://fitness.scoobysworkshop.com/veg.htm
http://www.veganbodybuilding.org/veganbasics.htm

Scooby is the exact reason why I started working out. Ironic and apropos to see you post that. Bravo

i second veganbodybuilding.com as good examples of large vegans. Also try veganfitness.net they are a British site but its pretty informative as well. Good luck in your endeavors.

Hey guys thank you for your tips. I knew already veganbodybuilding an veganfitness, but scoobysworkshop it is new thanks Cacti

some one of you guys is vegan?

I am, but be careful people on this site don't take well to vegans.

Chances are you won't be beefy while being vegan...studies show you can have muscles BUT you're more lean than anything.

im a vegan and based on veganbodybuilding.com i have learned that you can be a pretty decent size the only difference i really saw was when you get up to teh competition level they always participate in the lower weight class. But i have seen some mighty fine vegan musculartur otherwise.

Not a bodybuilder here, but I am a vegan, and have several friends who are vegetarian/vegan and are very jacked. The protein myth is simply a myth the best thing you can do for your diet is cut animal protein.

Hey man. I have been a vegan for about five years and though I am no bodybuilder I think I have pretty good body (not one to flaunt it). I do get a lot of protein from vegetable sources and I supplement with rice protein. I try not to get too much soy in my diet though. I have read quite a bit about how it can increase the level of estrogen and decrease the level of testosterone in vegan men, which might explain the issues with getting real big.

I gained about 10 lbs of muscle last year and was very happy with the results (except for some residual fat that I didn't love). I did it by greatly increasing my calorie intact and workout intensity. Unfortunately, I have a metabolism that makes it really hard to keep weight on. I had the same problem when I ate meat and supplemented with animal protein, so I hesitate to think it has anything to do with being vegan.

My best advice is to vary your diet, get enough protein, get plenty of rest and work your tail off in the gym. That is what you need to do to get big no matter what your diet.

Best of luck and let me know if I can help in any way!

ppaolalto,

check out RJ member "MnJock2003" -- he's vegan and has posted quite a bit about it's benefits, and he has an impressive/fit bod...

I have been vegan for 11 years but have never really tired piling on muscle so I am not sure how easy it would be. That said, being big and vegan is doable. In fact Tony Gonzalez is vegan (plays for the Kansas City Chiefs). You can check out an article about him here:
http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB120122116182915297-lMyQjAxMDI4MDIxNTIyMjUxWj.html

I'm vegan since 2005.
Drives my friends crazy...I'm not "big" but most of the people that meet me seem surprised when I tell them I am vegan....they always look puzzled and say something like...."Wow, you look too healthy to be vegan".

The term "vegan" is very vague. Those that are true vegans that eat no animal product whatsoever and that don't even allow themselves to wear any leather are usually not very "jacked" in terms of muscle mass.

For a good reference for the different types of vegetarians try this site:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism

Those that eat whey, dairy and eggs will have the easiest time building muscle.

Plant proteins are not complete in their amino acid profile. This means you're not getting all the amino acids that your body needs to build muscle. You can combine certain plant based foods in order to "attempt" to get them all but eating meat has these amino acids in the ideal proportions.

I myself haven't eaten red meat in nearly 7 years but someone brought over a pepperoni pizza and I couldn't resist. So every now and then I have this type of pizza.

I became recently anemic to the point of needing blood transfusions. Since red meat is high in iron I was told by my doctor to eat meat to improve my condition. The iron found in veggie sources isn't the same for some reason. I forgot the reason why he told me. Due to all of this I was craving meat for awhile. But all I have to do remember that an animal died in order to create the food I'm about to eat and I usually snap out of it.

muchmorethanmuscle saidThe term "vegan" is very vague. Those that are true vegans that eat no animal product whatsoever and that don't even allow themselves to wear any leather are usually not very "jacked" in terms of muscle mass.

I never thought it to be vague. For me vegans were the true vegetarians, who did not any any animal by products. That meant no jelly, eggs, cheese, even honey or yeast. While vegetarians just didnt eat meat, including fish, poultry and seafood, but vegetarian is vague as a term as there are variations.

You are right on regarding the amino acids. lysine in particular is a necessity and cant be synthesized but rather must be ingested. The good news is the largest sources containing lysine are plants and are an alternative to red meat, IE soybeans. Its the main building block for building muscles.

smalltownboy saidI'm vegan since 2005.
Drives my friends crazy...I'm not "big" but most of the people that meet me seem surprised when I tell them I am vegan....they always look puzzled and say something like...."Wow, you look too healthy to be vegan".

Vegan since 2005, eh? Well, I clicked on your profile, clicked through to your MySpace profile, and read your blog entries. How do you explain all the animal foods you were eating in 2006 if you've been vegan since 2005?

Saturday, March 25, 2006


8:23 PM - Binge & Purge
Current mood: full

Oh God, I'm miserable.

I told my Mom this evening that I have got to stop.

I came down to Texas City this weekend to take care of business and since arriving here late last night, in between the various chores I've managed to consume more calories in 24 hours then I've probably had in the last week and a half.

Since 10:00 p.m. last night, I've had:

2 large pieces of carrot cake with strawberrys dipped in whipped creme.

A very big stick of fried cheese....

3 fried crab balls ()

A big salad with an even bigger bowl of ranch dressing and hamburger pickles.

3 BIG fried mushrooms.

2 McDonald's cheeseburgers, large fries and a side salad w/ranch dressing.

2 fried eggs, 2 sausage patties, a huge plate of hash browns and 2 pieces of white toast smothered in butter.

A carton of Blue Bell Ice Creme (butter-pecan)

TWO Heath Bars

A Pizza Hut Personal Pan Pizza (Supreme)

A Burrito Supreme (from Taco Bell)

A full order of Nacho's Bell Grande'

And a small Diet Coke.

muchmorethanmuscle said
Plant proteins are not complete in their amino acid profile. This means you're not getting all the amino acids that your body needs to build muscle. You can combine certain plant based foods in order to "attempt" to get them all but eating meat has these amino acids in the ideal proportions.

.

This myth was popularized in the 1971 book Diet for a Small Planet and has no basis in fact . It was based on studies on rats and rats need more protein than humans to survive( human breast milk is 5% protein and rats milk is 50% protein). The author of the book admitted over twenty years ago that she made a mistake (in the 1982 edition of the same book).
There is no way humans would have survived their vegetarian origins if you were unable to find complete proteins without combining foods... and yes, humans were originally herbivores .

Salubrious saidlots of rice and beans, heh.

There is no such thing as a special "source of protein" because all foods -- even plants -- have plentiful protein. You might as well say "Food is a good source of protein". In any event, beans (28%) don't average much more protein per calorie than common vegetables (23%).

paradox said[quote][cite]
Vegan since 2005, eh? Well, I clicked on your profile, clicked through to your MySpace profile, and read your blog entries. How do you explain all the animal foods you were eating in 2006 if you've been vegan since 2005?

Wow, that's some life you must have if that's all you have to do in this world...

Well, without going into too many details, I'll just say my myspace blog is actually supposed to be set @ a "friends only" status, so if you had access to the hundreds of posts I've made there, you would see where I've written freely about my struggles with maintaining a vegan diet....I even listed the issue as one of my "disappointments" in myself for 2007...but you wouldn't have had access to that post....

Anyway, again..."Wow", this is all you have to do is go through peoples blogs looking to find something "wrong".

Just for the record....I had lunch with a friend today and I ate some of his mozzarella.

I've been a vegetarian for about 15 years. I don't really have problem putting on muscle, but getting lean is my struggle at the moment. I think it has more to do with my nonexistent as of late cardio then anything else. Diet; don't really think about my protein intake, which is the number one question i get asked, i just eat, and try to eat healthy.

NorthFl saidDiet; don't really think about my protein intake, which is the number one question i get asked, i just eat, and try to eat healthy.

I am actually the same way (17yrs). The only time I feel bloated is when I am focusing on getting "enough" protein. As long as you are eating whole foods and not a bunch of processed junk, you will be fine.

mnjock2003 said[quote][cite]NorthFl said[/cite]Diet; don't really think about my protein intake, which is the number one question i get asked, i just eat, and try to eat healthy.

I am actually the same way (17yrs). The only time I feel bloated is when I am focusing on getting "enough" protein. As long as you are eating whole foods and not a bunch of processed junk, you will be fine.[/quote]

I'm doing a "Boot Camp" with a friend over the next 6 weeks and our instructor met with me yesterday to discuss my diet...he's concerned I'm not getting enough protein in my diet...eliminating dairy has been extremely hard for me and I readily admit I'm not a big fan of soy either. Beans and nuts are my only real source of protein and I find myself avoiding beans because I don't want the gas that comes with them...since I run so much its difficult for me to run and be bloated with gas all the time...perhaps its a mental thing, but I know I'm lacking in the protein side as well as concern (from my instructor) about a lack of omega 3, 6 & 9. I hear mixed opinions about the use of flax seed...

smalltownboy said[quote][cite]mnjock2003 said[/cite][quote][cite]NorthFl said[/cite]Diet; don't really think about my protein intake, which is the number one question i get asked, i just eat, and try to eat healthy.

I am actually the same way (17yrs). The only time I feel bloated is when I am focusing on getting "enough" protein. As long as you are eating whole foods and not a bunch of processed junk, you will be fine.[/quote]

I'm doing a "Boot Camp" with a friend over the next 6 weeks and our instructor met with me yesterday to discuss my diet...he's concerned I'm not getting enough protein in my diet...eliminating dairy has been extremely hard for me and I readily admit I'm not a big fan of soy either. Beans and nuts are my only real source of protein and I find myself avoiding beans because I don't want the gas that comes with them...since I run so much its difficult for me to run and be bloated with gas all the time...perhaps its a mental thing, but I know I'm lacking in the protein side as well as concern (from my instructor) about a lack of omega 3, 6 & 9. I hear mixed opinions about the use of flax seed... [/quote]


Dairy/eggs is still a part of my diet, whole other ball game cutting out dairy/eggs, at least it would be for me. Just a learning curve, listen to your body.

I also do the flax seed oil, was told by someone a long time ago i should for my omega 3 source. Hadn't heard of negative opinions about taking it.

Your instructor is just perpetuating a common myth about protein. Almost every trainer I know says the same statistics even though they contradict what the World Health Organization advises. I had a trainer put me on multiple supplements to offset my supposed deficiency in protein and all they did was make me feel sick all the time. If you want your body to look like an unnatural extreme, you will have to have an equally unnatural diet. If you are looking to build a solid body of lean muscle, you should have no problem on a vegan diet as long as you are eating whole foods.
Your body is not designed to need uber amounts of protein. Actually, breast milk is 5% protein and that is for when you are doubling your size.
If you are eating a lot of whole foods and avoiding processed fast food you will fine.
A vegan diet has to be well rounded and well thought out, otherwise you will eat the same food repeatedly and your diet will be deficient in more than just protein.

smalltownboy said
Wow, that's some life you must have if that's all you have to do in this world...

:::: shrug :::: It took less than a minute's worth of curiosity to browse through the provided links to see that blog entry. There's a common pattern among those who claim to eat kooky or extreme diets of not being honest about what they actually do or do not eat, and I was just curious to see if that was the case here. Not surprisingly, it was. A vegan who eats cheese is not a vegan. A breatharian who eats at Denny's at 2am is not a breatharian. A fruitarian who eats leafy greens is not a fruitarian. Why cling to a rigidly defined dietary identity if it doesn't accurately describe the actual diet?

paradox said[quote][cite]smalltownboy said[/cite]
Wow, that's some life you must have if that's all you have to do in this world...

:::: shrug :::: It took less than a minute's worth of curiosity to browse through the provided links to see that blog entry. There's a common pattern among those who claim to eat kooky or extreme diets of not being honest about what they actually do or do not eat, and I was just curious to see if that was the case here. Not surprisingly, it was. A vegan who eats cheese is not a vegan. A breatharian who eats at Denny's at 2am is not a breatharian. A fruitarian who eats leafy greens is not a fruitarian. Why cling to a rigidly defined dietary identity if it doesn't accurately describe the actual diet?[/quote]

Dude, don't be that guy

So following your logic, because i have slept with a women i'm not gay.

Yes, in the 15 years on my kooky diet I have eaten meat, guessing about on 10+ occasions, sometime because I didn't know it was in there, others for cultural reason. I'm still a vegetarian. There are no absolutes in any label

NorthFl said There are no absolutes in any label

I'm absolutely omnivorous.

Okay, here is the deal...(with me).
On a day to day basis, I follow a vegan diet...I didn't choose to do vegan because I'm an animal lover, again if you had access to my full blog you would see I hate squirrels and wish death upon them...back in 2005 I began to follow an octo-lacto vegetarian diet and it eventually evolved into vegan. The main reason I did it was I found that when I went octo-lacto, foods that I normally ate with meat (ie...french fries) went away too. I started to lose weight and I felt so much better....but I still ate lots of dairy, especially ice cream and cheese, so when I dropped the dairy, my weight went down further because I was eliminating more junk food from my typical way of eating...again, if you had access to my full blog you would have seen that I spend a great deal of time writing about my binge eating. I think I've even mentioned it on RJ in the short time I've been posting...sometimes when I binge, I binge on non-vegan foods....rarely meat, but yeah, it happens..but on typical day to day eating, I stick to vegan. Label Nazi's may disagree as they see everything in black or white....I don't. Say-la-vee.

mnjock2003 said[quote][cite]muchmorethanmuscle said[/cite]
Plant proteins are not complete in their amino acid profile. This means you're not getting all the amino acids that your body needs to build muscle. You can combine certain plant based foods in order to "attempt" to get them all but eating meat has these amino acids in the ideal proportions.

.

This myth was popularized in the 1971 book Diet for a Small Planet and has no basis in fact . It was based on studies on rats and rats need more protein than humans to survive( human breast milk is 5% protein and rats milk is 50% protein). The author of the book admitted over twenty years ago that she made a mistake (in the 1982 edition of the same book).
There is no way humans would have survived their vegetarian origins if you were unable to find complete proteins without combining foods... and yes, humans were originally herbivores .


[/quote]

I'm not saying that humans can't survive. You've missed my point entirely. My point I was making is that true vegans that eat no animal source such as eggs or dairy can't expect to get "jacked" up in terms of large muscle mass. I said NOTHING about surviving or getting by. Pay closer attention.

tonyp321 said IE soybeans. Its the main building block for building muscles.

Soybeans are not the best thing for men to eat as they can eventually lead to hormonal imbalances such as elevated estrogen levels.

Although I like eating them I avoid doing so for this reason.

i'm not a vegan, so i hope you don't think i'm a hypocrite for posting here. But i have many friends who are vegan and respect the choice. because i like living a healthy life and respect our planet, i don't eat too much meat and so i follow vegan athletes with a great deal of interest and try to play along at home, introducing their food choices into my diet and such.

like moremorethanmuscle, i really enjoy soy, but i have enough trouble keeping my hormone levels right without it. when i ate too much soy protein i put on more fat than anything despite working out like mad, and had to cut it out. i know it's not vegan but for protein supplement i had to switch to whey. i have some friends who are truly vegan and can consume massive quantities of soy without any negative impact at all.

scooby recommends quinoa and i totally second it. i love that i can cook it up like cous cous. the stuff is amazing. the scrawny to brawny program recommends it too. (but that program also includes meat).

also, in addition to tony gonzalez, you might look to mac danzig for some inspiration. he's the guy who won last year's the ultimate fighter. he's vegan. and though he's not huge, he's insanely fit and very strong. he won the contest by taking out this big meat eating farm boy with combo of strength and wits in the first round much to everyone's surprise.

Thanks, roundhouse for chiming in.
Strength levels, can be increased by eating meat, but the ultimate indicator is genetics.

There are guys half my size that can left the same weight as me or substantially more. I'm stronger than some men that are my size.

The other day I was watching Craig Ferguson, the guy on the late late talk show. He had K.D. Lang on as a guest. She came out barefoot and was asked why she did so. It had to do with being a true and total vegan which mean not coming into contact with leather as in wearing shoes.

I had to hand it to her. I sometimes think about going that far. Not the part of being barefoot, one can easily buy canvas shoes or pairs made from non-leather materials.I've been near slaughter houses and heard animals being killed. They sounded like children screaming for their lives. It was sort of like how Clarisse (Jodie Foster's character) describes her experience in the movie Silence of the Lambs when she was a little girl.