Organized attack by the Mormon Church on Vermont

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    Mar 30, 2009 10:30 AM GMT
    It has been discussed many times how the Mormon Church lead an organized attack on California during Prop. 8. That isn't news. What is news is that they have now turned their efforts on Vermont, a much smaller state (635,000). If you've been following it, the Vermont Senate voted 26-4 in favor of gay marriage. Two days later the republican governor (Douglas) said he would veto the bill. This week the Vermont House votes on the issue. It is easily going to get over the 75 votes needed to pass, but it is undetermined if it will get the 100 votes needed for an override of the governor's veto.
    Now, the Mormon Church has launched an attack on the legislators, pressuring them to vote NO on the bill. One pro-gay legislator said he is getting over 400 e-mails a day from out of state telling him to vote NO (and usually quoting the bible in one way or another). Many legislators just delete all e-mail that does not come from their town or district.
    The dean of the Vermont Senate, a republican who has been there since the 1960's, voted NO on Civil Unions in 2000, but listened to our voices, and voted YES on equal marriage this year. He said got a phone call at 6:30 AM the next day with an angry man yelling at him for "siding with the queers".
    So - if you are a Vermonter or know someone in Vermont who can help, ask them to call their legislator NOW. The House vote is this week.
    If you care to contribute money, go to: http://www.vtfreetomarry.org/
    Thanks for your help.
    (As one legislator said as he held up his hand with his finger and thumb about 1/2 inch apart, "We are this close to winning".)
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    Mar 30, 2009 3:46 PM GMT
    Results of a poll just released this morning:

    Sen. William Doyle's annual Town Meeting Day poll shows that:

    55 percent of Vermonters support gay marriage
    38 percent oppose it
    7 percent are undecided.
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    Mar 30, 2009 5:16 PM GMT
    Be aware that New Hampshire's legislature is voting on a similar bill. With VT and NH legislature's supporting these rights and gay marriage already legal in CT and MA, New England may just be our friendliest corner of the country. Man I miss Boston now :-)
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    Mar 30, 2009 5:22 PM GMT
    I would think outside interference would have a good chance of backfiring. Especiallly when the source is easily identifiable
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    Mar 30, 2009 5:22 PM GMT
    I would think outside interference would have a good chance of backfiring. Especiallly when the source is easily identifiable
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    Mar 30, 2009 5:28 PM GMT
    well Caslon it did not backfire in CA. though that was a referendum question and different than a legislative vote. Unfortunately the Governor's of both VT and NH said they would veto these bills. I hope it does not come to that
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    Mar 30, 2009 5:38 PM GMT
    Mormon's could have a lot of pull on CA, as there are a lot of them (2% of the population). While this may seem like very little, it already represents thousands of ground troops in a grassroots-style campaign.

    Vermont has almost no Mormons in the state according to census data. Also, the political campaigns are vastly different. Out of state influence cannot penetrate Vermont politics as easily because this is not a popular campaign, as only politicians vote on it and Mormon money can't be spent on a TV ads or a canvass.
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    Mar 30, 2009 5:52 PM GMT
    Remember, in California, it wasn't ONLY the Mormons who caused the voting shift against us. It was also the Latino vote (primarily Catholics who usually follow the word of the church blindly) and the African-American voters, who seemed to resent the idea that Gay Rights were in any way similar to the fight for Minority rights, as well as the retirees who, for whatever reason, sided against us by over 60%.
  • metta

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    Mar 30, 2009 5:54 PM GMT
    Thanks for the update. I just made a small donation. Please keep us posted. icon_smile.gif
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    Mar 30, 2009 5:55 PM GMT
    The religious right is very weak here, and in New England as a whole. Still, convincing 2/3rds of the legislature to vote in favor of gay marriage, will be difficult.

    New Hampshire appears to be having a tougher time, especially if their governor decided to veto the legislation. So far, he has not said what he will do, but he is opposed to the bill.
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    Mar 30, 2009 5:56 PM GMT
    metta8 saidThanks for the update. I just made a small donation. Please keep us posted. icon_smile.gif


    THANK-YOU !!!!!!! icon_cool.gif
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    Mar 30, 2009 6:01 PM GMT
    and all from people who believe this




    I wish they´d just go and have endless celestial sex on other planets in their sacred magical underpants
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    Mar 30, 2009 7:27 PM GMT
    Lostboy saidand all from people who believe this




    I wish they´d just go and have endless celestial sex on other planets in their sacred magical underpants



    wow, well ... 1) thank god i was raised jewish, 2) thank god i'm not really religious anyways 3) the further we get away from religion the better off we'll be (although it can provide a good basis of morals).

    I feel slightly dumber after watching that movie though.. people actually believe this? well i guess i have a problem with most religions in general, i'm more of a science based person, and feel religion is more of a cultural identity, I've no spiritual beliefs i guess.

    I wish the church's would stop fooling around with the marriage thing. If its supposed to be a separation between church and state, then religion SHOULD not impact on how our government decides to regulate. just my opinion, i hope all turns out well, it will be interesting to see what happens.
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    Mar 30, 2009 7:41 PM GMT
    OutdoorMutt saidIt has been discussed many times how the Mormon Church lead an organized attack on California during Prop. 8. That isn't news. What is news is that they have now turned their efforts on Vermont, a much smaller state (635,000). If you've been following it, the Vermont Senate voted 26-4 in favor of gay marriage. Two days later the republican governor (Douglas) said he would veto the bill. This week the Vermont House votes on the issue. It is easily going to get over the 75 votes needed to pass, but it is undetermined if it will get the 100 votes needed for an override of the governor's veto.
    Now, the Mormon Church has launched an attack on the legislators, pressuring them to vote NO on the bill. One pro-gay legislator said he is getting over 400 e-mails a day from out of state telling him to vote NO (and usually quoting the bible in one way or another). Many legislators just delete all e-mail that does not come from their town or district.
    The dean of the Vermont Senate, a republican who has been there since the 1960's, voted NO on Civil Unions in 2000, but listened to our voices, and voted YES on equal marriage this year. He said got a phone call at 6:30 AM the next day with an angry man yelling at him for "siding with the queers".
    So - if you are a Vermonter or know someone in Vermont who can help, ask them to call their legislator NOW. The House vote is this week.
    If you care to contribute money, go to: http://www.vtfreetomarry.org/
    Thanks for your help.
    (As one legislator said as he held up his hand with his finger and thumb about 1/2 inch apart, "We are this close to winning".)


    False belief systems are extremely dangerous when they try to impose their doctrine on the general population.
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    Mar 30, 2009 7:52 PM GMT
    I have a bad feeling the Mormons will win in Vermont like they won in California. And because they're so powerful, especially in Congress, the Federal government will not dare raise the legitimate question of whether they're violating their tax exempt status by engaging in political activities.
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    Mar 30, 2009 8:21 PM GMT
    Red_Vespa saidI have a bad feeling the Mormons will win in Vermont like they won in California. And because they're so powerful, especially in Congress, the Federal government will not dare raise the legitimate question of whether they're violating their tax exempt status by engaging in political activities.


    The Mormons are truly a sharp lot, and very careful with it's green backs. It would not put them at risk. The Mormons as in head of the church are not directly involved in politics, it's members who have a right to a vote are.

    Also part of your Temple work is too swear allegiance to the head of the church. So if you are a rich Mormon, and they call you yo donate, and you don't want to be involved. They call you on your pledge. The Mormon church donates nothing, it's members do. The Mormons church does not have a vote, it's members do.
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    Mar 30, 2009 8:32 PM GMT
    Lostboy saidand all from people who believe this




    I wish they´d just go and have endless celestial sex on other planets in their sacred magical underpants


    YEESH. I felt like I was watching the story of Scientology!

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    Mar 30, 2009 8:35 PM GMT
    Lostboy saidand all from people who believe this




    I wish they´d just go and have endless celestial sex on other planets in their sacred magical underpants


    "those who were neutral to the fight against Lucifer were to be cursed with black skin. This is the Mormon explanation for the negro race."

    WTF!?

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    Mar 30, 2009 9:18 PM GMT
    yup.... of course we´re not meant to know this stuff.

    Blacks used not to be allowed into mormonism, but they changed that.

    It´s on a par with valentinian gnosticism for loopiness. If people want to believe it then fine, but they should not be allowed to persecute others.
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    Mar 31, 2009 12:51 AM GMT
    Lostboy saidyup.... of course we´re not meant to know this stuff.

    Blacks used not to be allowed into mormonism, but they changed that.

    It´s on a par with valentinian gnosticism for loopiness. If people want to believe it then fine, but they should not be allowed to persecute others.
    in fact a black fella could become a Mormon. But he could not hold the priesthood, or have any callings.
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    Mar 31, 2009 1:02 AM GMT
    Did the Mormons spend another 8.2 million against equal rights this time too?
    I will never understand why a religion that claims they believe in love would fight against it? And who are they to legislate their religion?
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    Mar 31, 2009 1:06 AM GMT
    LutherGooch said And who are they to legislate their religion?


    This is really the key point, isn´t it? Freedom of religion sure (even when it´s barmy), but they should not be allowed to impose their moral code on others. That is not "separation of state and church", that is not equal rights for citizens.
  • fitone

    Posts: 276

    Mar 31, 2009 1:15 AM GMT
    the mormons should lose their tax exempt status. they were forced to disclose that they paid for plane tickets for supporters of prop 8.
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    Mar 31, 2009 1:15 AM GMT
    I propose a new Crusades. Feed mormons to the lions. No, wait. Why make the lions sick? Feed the mormons to, um, oh, god! what on this earth can digest a mormon without throwing up? Oh, I know, a Catholic!
  • jlly_rnchr

    Posts: 1759

    Mar 31, 2009 1:29 AM GMT
    Is it only Mormons interfering with New England? I hold a particularly nasty grudge with the Knights of Columbus for financing pro-Prop 8 propaganda, and I would not be surprised if they chimed in on NE too.