Why do Christians come away after reading the bible with the preposterous idea that Jesus loves them, is not judgmental, and is here to love and forgive?
The bible NEVER says such things.
Here are a few hightlights regarding Jesus:
1 Cor 6:9 (Paul) - Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind (homosexuals), 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Matthew 10:34 (Jesus) – “Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. 35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. 36 And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household. 37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.”
IN FACT: Jesus “will judge the quick (i.e., the living) and dead at his appearing” (2 Tim 4:1). All people will “appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad” (2 Cor. 5:10).
The upshot: If you believe and you're gay, take no comfort in the lie that Jesus loves and forgives you. Don't flatter yourself. You are going to hell if Jesus has anything to say about it.
Matthew 24:14-21; Mark 14-23 - And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, whoso readeth, let him understand, … and woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!.. For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.
MuscleToronto saidOh, and then of course, there's this:
Matthew 24:14-21; Mark 14-23 - And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, whoso readeth, let him understand, … and woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!.. For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.
Jesus AINT savin' your gay ass. Period.
The act is the sin, not the state. Just as fornication, the act, is the sin, not finding women attractive.
Just saying, id est: I don't want to be smothered in apathy and hostility.
yes.. I read the bible.. thumping good read.. death, violence and vengeance on every page.. I shall use it as my personal guide when I take over the planet and enslave everyone
The problem is that you're not considering the church propaganda in those verses, rather than the real teachings themselves. As I tell people, whether you believe or not, the parables of Christ are essential to a loving society and common respect for each other.
lilTanker saidyes.. I read the bible.. thumping good read.. death, violence and vengeance on every page.. I shall use it as my personal guide when I take over the planet and enslave everyone
Kind of off topic, but will we be in dog-collars with chains and will there be whips?
Addition: Reading the Old Testament when younger, I always fantasized that I was a an enslaved Jew during the building of the pyramids. One day a slave-master would begin to use me for his personal pleasure and give me a couple extra whips for being a bad boy while at work!
looknrnd saidKind of off topic, but will we be in dog-collars with chains and will there be whips?
Addition: Reading the Old Testament when younger, I always fantasized that I was a an enslaved Jew during the building of the pyramids. One day a slave-master would begin to use me for his personal pleasure and give me a couple extra whips for being a bad boy while at work!
looknrnd saidKind of off topic, but will we be in dog-collars with chains and will there be whips?
Addition: Reading the Old Testament when younger, I always fantasized that I was a an enslaved Jew during the building of the pyramids. One day a slave-master would begin to use me for his personal pleasure and give me a couple extra whips for being a bad boy while at work!
Well fuck.. that can certainly be arranged!!!!
Perfect! I FINALLY have something to look forward to!
I think it's difficult for anyone who believes in Jesus Christ in any religion. They have to struggle with the freedoms of being U.S. Citizen and the restrictions their religious perspective gives them to empose on themselves. Where do they draw the line? Where does life become a matter of man's law, common sense, and worldliness; and where does it start being a matter of Faith and Ethics? Noone can tell you what to believe, but you allow other's views to alter your own, but when do you stop being a true believer, and start being a sheep in a cultist state of mind? These are the ideas and questions I had to face as a son of Christian Minister, and part of a very religious family. Also the reason I've chosen to focus on being more spiritual in my practice of universal laws, and not confined by any single religion, or diluted by the blind acceptence that all relgions are right in all ways.
I like to think that I'm a human being, and it's the things I do, think and experience in this Life that will affect wherever I may go once I die. I don't know where that is, but I do know that I'm doing my damndest to make sure that it's not bad, by the measure of my personal beliefs. Sure, I'm gay. So what? Some people are straight or bi or whatever. That alone isn't enough to stop me from seeking something spiritual in my life. I don't think homosexuals, and the alike, should feel that they're deserving of something simply because other people say so. If you believe than noone can take that away from you. Nor should you give it away when someone tries to take it from you.
If there are gay Muslims, Jews, Christians, Buddhists, Taoist or whatever out there, let them believe what they want to. It's their soul that they themselves are dealing with, not yours or mine. No man can take that away from anyone else, if you don't let them. So what if there may not be a GOD, or some form of Savior, afterlife, or reincarnation after death. It's not our jobs to take what makes other peoples lives happy away from them. I know no matter how logical the argument, or how damning the evidence may be, I still Believe there is something more out there than just gases spinning around for billions of years. And noone can say beyond a shadow of doubt that there is or is not a Creator out there, right here, permeating through everything. So hold your peace, before your own words take that away from you.
looknrnd saidKind of off topic, but will we be in dog-collars with chains and will there be whips?
Addition: Reading the Old Testament when younger, I always fantasized that I was a an enslaved Jew during the building of the pyramids. One day a slave-master would begin to use me for his personal pleasure and give me a couple extra whips for being a bad boy while at work!
Well fuck.. that can certainly be arranged!!!!
Perfect! I FINALLY have something to look forward to!
looknrnd saidKind of off topic, but will we be in dog-collars with chains and will there be whips?
Addition: Reading the Old Testament when younger, I always fantasized that I was a an enslaved Jew during the building of the pyramids. One day a slave-master would begin to use me for his personal pleasure and give me a couple extra whips for being a bad boy while at work!
Well fuck.. that can certainly be arranged!!!!
Perfect! I FINALLY have something to look forward to!
I think these two would make a VERY cute couple.
yeah I think he'd look cute butt naked in a collar and chain...
Now I know why I fell asleep in church as a child (except when the organist made a mistake). My inner gay self was rebelling.
I have met gay men raised in fundamentalist households that have never been able to reconcile their upbringing with being gay. They were miserable kids, now they are miserable adults. Seems to be a waste to me, but it is their life I guess.
I do not believe that Jesus was divine He was a religious visionary like Budda , Mohammed, and Zoroaster. Jesus taught love, tolerance , compassion and peace. He supported the poor and persecuted.The bible was written by men not God. Organized religion added their own rules and beliefs. Organized religion forgot what Jesus stood for. I believe the Christian church did not condemn homosexuality until the writings of St. Augustine in the 4th century. Augustine is known to have at least one male on male relationship during his wild days of his youth. It is possible that St. Augustine had "internalized homophobia". There is some evidence that Jesus may have been bisexual according to this web page. http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jegay.htm
There are a lot of Jesus legends out there. In my hippie days it was said that Jesus used psychedelic mushrooms. That legend is still floating around and there is even a book about it. http://www.psychedelics.com/psilocybe/holyjesus.html
In the Sermon on the Mount, central to his teaching, Jesus offered a one-way trip to the Kingdom of God, to anyone who is persecuted? So one can asssume that Gays, since prosecuted, are going to Heaven. If Jesus would come back, he would condemn organized religion for all the intolerance it stands for
I find some of the responses to this thread insulting and down right intollerant.
You can make anything say what you want if you drag it out of context.. just as those sections of the Bible have been.
Also - what is it iwth the gay "Community" being to anti-Religion, particularly Christianity? Instead of sewing the seeds of hate, sew the seeds of love and tolerance. Beat swords into ploughshares and spears into pruning hooks.
Saying that the Bible never says that Jesus loved and forgave is not only ignorant but insulting, because Jesus did. Jesus crossed over the barriers of his own time and reached out to touch the untouchable with acts of Love and of Grace.
MuscleToronto saidOh, and then of course, there's this: Jesus AINT savin' your gay ass. Period.
'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' (Matthew 22:37-39)
'Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.' (Luke 23:34)
