Another try at posting what's probably a stupid question

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 14, 2007 7:10 PM GMT
    This is, admittedly, a stupid question from someone who knows very little about anything, but here goes.

    In 1984, I went through alcoholism/drug treatment, with a guy who was homosexual. We were both Christians (he had AIDS and died in 1986) and I was fully inside the closet. Actually, at present, the door is just slightly cracked, but a few friends and mainly my wife know I am homosexual. We talked about his homosexuality a lot and my “curiosity” a little. I was interested in being with guys and even had dreams about him, but that’s as far as it went.

    As we talked, he mentioned something that I now wonder about. I told him I would like to be with a guy and he said that it wasn’t as great as I might think because, being young and new to a homosexual lifestyle at the time, I would be forced to be a bottom. I didn’t know that term then, but I do now. When he said it, it sounded as though those who preferred the bottom position were a) basically forced into that position by some community standard of progression (i.e. start as a bottom and work your way to top) and b) thought of in negative terms as if they were impotent sluts.

    Ok. Here is my question. I have never been with a guy, except webcam internet, but if I was, I would want to be the bottom. Having a guy make love to me and being inside of me is hugely erotic to me. In fact, while the idea of being the bottom in anal sex is erotic to me, being the top is a total turnoff. Does that somehow make me less of a person or less of a man than someone who is a top? Does it matter what I prefer? Speaking only in generalities and not specifics, am I likely to be treated as a lesser person since all I want is to do oral or be the bottom?

    I don’t think a lot of guys here look negatively toward bottom guys, but I guess I just need to know. I am basically insecure already. I don’t need anything else to pound my self esteem.

    Thanks. Hope this doesn’t make me sound totally stupid.

    Jim
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    Apr 14, 2007 7:33 PM GMT
    Jim, I don't think that's a stupid question at all. My sense is that negative associations with being a bottom have their basis in patriarchal, rigidly defined gender roles where man is solely the penetrator, and a man who is penetrated is therefore degraded by it. And, even some mainstream gay men, who defy all the patriarchal bullshit, will call another guy a bottom as a campy putdown.

    But, to answer your question, no, I don't think being a bottom makes you (or me, for that matter) a lesser person. In fact, my perception is that there are a lot more bottoms than tops. There may very well be people who do think less of you for being a bottom, but that's their drama, and there is no rule that you have to make their drama your drama. Just be proudly and authentically you.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Apr 14, 2007 9:18 PM GMT
    Not a stupid question at all...
    In fact it's a question that needs to be answered ... esp for most of the gay teens who are coming to terms with what they are
    ..and their sexuality
    Now a little history lesson...before Christianity came and completely screwed us up for a millenia homosexuality was fairly common
    ...and young men were seen as sexual objects
    sex in ancient times was mostly about power and we still have vestiges of that today
    ...Tops are seen as more virile..potent
    ...we joke about bottoms sometimes wanting to be called tops
    but when it comes down to it....you can't have a top without a bottom
    and it's all what you enjoy...what feels good for you
    so you fantasize about being a bottom...be one
    who knows...you may like it and do it again
    or you may wanna try being a top
    sex is supposed to be fun...don't make the mistake and place yourself into any rigid boxes
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    Apr 15, 2007 12:09 AM GMT
    Jim,

    Great question. I am versitile and only so that I am not selfish to my partner. I get off on being the top but I would be just as happy to only be on the bottom. I too, find it very erotic and at times feel that I am the lucky one when I am the bottom. Even better when your partner knows how to be a great top. Nothing better than someone who knows how to dance in you, if that makes any sense. It will when you are topped by someone whom is so mechanical almost robot like.

    So if I answered your question, yes, you're normal. I am a bottom at heart, but never felt inferior - Just feels like I died and gone to Figi.
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    Apr 16, 2007 2:59 AM GMT
    Everyone has said some very awesome things, but I wanted to comment on two things.

    First it might be important not to demonize Christianity for a number of reasons. While I am not so keen on it, Christianity like any culture is not the same as it was say a couple thousand years ago; it isn't even the same as it was 50 years ago. All cultures change constantly. Also, the history of men sleeping with men and the laws against it are really convoluted. Some scholars point out that it was Caesar Augustus, not Christianity, who outlawed men sleeping with men for reasons of losing the Empire with a dwindling birth rate. In fact, here is a nice little article about the history of gay marriage in church: http://www.libchrist.com/other/homosexual/gaymarriagerite.html

    But the other thing I wanted to say is that for me there was this desire to be sexually intimate with a man that drove me to experiment with it as a (very) young man. Then as I did more of it, I learned more, developed new likes, and found that it was this wonderful world of possibilities that could mean all sorts of things. I've been doing it for a long time now and still discovering new things (most awesome!!).

    Sex is never just sex, but it is also never all the baggage people associate with it (the inescapable locking of two souls as some contemporary Christian thinkers say, or power domination like some psychologists say), unless of course you want it to be a porter for that stuff. Which is fine too, but it is important to remember that it is you giving it whatever meaning not that it has it inherent in itself.
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    Apr 20, 2007 5:20 PM GMT
    Stop being so self-centered.

    Pick yourself up and take charge of your life and stop with the bullshit, self-indulgent, excuses. Blaze your own way if you gotta' but, if you continue to do things the same, they'll remain the same. (Common sense 101)

    With 6.5 BILLION folks in the world, do you honestly think anyone gives a rat's tiny behind about your sexuality? That's giving yourself a bit to much credit, and being way self-centered / pity pot mode. Take charge and move ahead and quit being a little baby about something as basic as your sexuality. Straight, bi, gay...even try (try anything once) are part of nature and couldn't be more natural. Don't sign up for the false belief systems and the guilt of various "religions." Stick with the facts, Jack.

    Dump the false belief systems, self-loathing, and all the analysis. Come to like yourself, and others will to.

    Become honest, with yourself first, and the rest will follow.

    Only YOU can fix your fucked up life, and now is the time to do it.
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    Apr 20, 2007 5:23 PM GMT
    Oh, yeah, who cares whether you're the fucker, or the fuckee? Honestly, you have to much time on your hands. ROFL.
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    Apr 20, 2007 5:23 PM GMT
    Oh, yeah, who cares whether you're the fucker, or the fuckee? Honestly, you have to much time on your hands. ROFL.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 24, 2007 3:13 PM GMT
    Hey Chucky:

    Thought I might answer your questions/comments.

    >Stop being so self-centered.

    I will admit one thing – I am self-centered. Always have been and may well be for the rest of my life. Sorry, but that’s who I am.

    >Pick yourself up and take charge of your life and stop with the bullshit, self-indulgent, excuses.

    Could you please point me to the “Bullshit, self-indulgent, excuses” about which you speak? Normally, I would try to attempt to guess where you see me making excuses, but I won’t do that now, except to say that my course of action will not depend on what someone else thinks of me. It’s just my nature to know what I am letting myself get into before I get into it.

    >Blaze your own way if you gotta' but, if you continue to do things the same, they'll remain the same. (Common sense 101)

    No shit Sherlock!



    >With 6.5 BILLION folks in the world, do you honestly think anyone gives a rat's tiny behind about your sexuality?

    As a matter of fact, there is another topic in this forum about lack of anal sex being a deal breaker. So….I would say that there are some guys who would care if I were to get together with them. As of right now, I can name a good fifty who would care about my sexuality. It may not make them change their attitude toward me, but most people do care about the lives of those people who are their friends and loved ones. I can tell you for a certainty that my wife absolutely gives a “rat’s behind,” although her concern probably approaches the size of an elephant’s behind. So, yes, I do think it matters to some people.

    >That's giving yourself a bit to much credit, and being way self-centered / pity pot mode. Take charge and move ahead and quit being a little baby about something as basic as your sexuality. Straight, bi, gay...even try (try anything once) are part of nature and couldn't be more natural. Don't sign up for the false belief systems and the guilt of various "religions." Stick with the facts, Jack.

    First of all, I am giving myself no credit for anything. I am well aware that I don’t control the feelings or thoughts of others and am certainly not in a pity pot mode. If I wasn’t trying to come to grips with EVERYTHING that makes me who I am, the question would not have been posted. I think that real men who have questions should ask them, not hide. It seems to me that it’s harder to ask a question than just leave it alone when one really wants to know.

    As to homosexuality, bisexuality or heterosexuality (call them what they are), I agree it is natural for us all to be curious and maybe even try anything once, but you make an assumption about my belief system. The assumption is not that I am a Christian who takes a fairly literal view of the bible, including homosexual acts as being sin. If that is your assumption, then you are correct.

    If, however, you assume that the belief system to which I subscribe is false, sorry dude, but you have no basis on which to make that assumption. I have ample evidence of events occurring in my life that would point to the validity of the truth of Christianity, which might also support my belief about homosexual acts. Doesn’t mean I won’t partake in the pleasure, just means I do so with open eyes.

    I will tell you another thing that is natural for guys like me – getting so drunk that I go into blackouts every time I drink alcohol. I am an alcoholic - pure and simple. While there is no conclusive scientific proof that homosexuality is genetically caused, there is a great deal of proof that the body of an alcoholic changes the alcohol into a highly addictive substance. That makes me crave the alcohol for both physical and psychological reasons. So, isn’t it a natural thing for me to go out and get drunk as much as I want? Just because it’s natural for me, doesn’t mean I indulge myself. For me, drinking alcoholic beverages is normal and, because of the effect on me, just plain wrong. So, I go against nature and abstain.

    Let’s face it, on this issue, I will probably never agree with most homosexuals and, though I am so inclined, doesn’t mean I think it is a good thing to engage in homosexual acts.

    GOTTA DO THIS IN CAPS SO I DON’T GET SCREAMED AT FOR GAY-BASHING. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH PEOPLE WHO ARE GAY. I DO NOT JUDGE THEM AND DO NOT AUTOMATICALLY CONSIGN THEM TO HELL AS MANY OF THE MAIN-LINE PREACHERS WOULD DO. GAY PEOPLE ARE PEOPLE AND, THEREFORE, JUST AS GOOD AS STRAIGHT PEOPLE. SO PLEASE, DON’T CONDEMN ME FOR MY BELIEFS BECAUSE, WHILE I MAY DISAGREE, I WON’T CONDEMN ANYONE ELSE FOR THEIRS. THAT’S BETWEEN THEM AND GOD.

    Summing up this little part, what are the facts? Here they are:

    a-I am human.
    b-I am male.
    c-I am sexually attracted to other males.
    d-I am married to a woman.
    e-I pledged myself to that woman. I am bound to do all I can to honor my pledge – even to the denial of myself because I made a promise.
    f-I am a Christian.
    g-I subscribe to the