Hazing/ initiation

  • beaujangle

    Posts: 1701

    Apr 05, 2009 12:42 PM GMT
    Is hazing on campus & dorms still on or is it banned?

    Any stories to share?
  • jlly_rnchr

    Posts: 1759

    Apr 05, 2009 1:13 PM GMT
    I think that officially, most campuses do not allow hazing by fraternities, sororities, and other organizations. But it 100% is still happening. It might not be as rough as it used to, but it's still there.
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    Apr 05, 2009 2:28 PM GMT
    The stories I could tell from the 70's.icon_rolleyes.gif
    Viet Nam "Training Night", "Night Rides" to nowhere, the "Last Supper", and of course bare-assed paddling.
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    Apr 05, 2009 3:07 PM GMT

    Some of the semi-pro rugby leagues here still do. And the initiation (I've participated in so far) includes banging a guy *ahem* to see if they could obtain and maintain erection post-hazing with all team present --as the ultimate test of manhood for them newbies. I'm not complaining, although my job was also to take the photos.

    2636_1126940087684_1052627565_375006_5932636_1126945567821_1052627565_375070_231

    Sometimes, I love Dubai. icon_eek.gif
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    Apr 05, 2009 3:14 PM GMT
    most schools have a zero tolerance for hazing, whether or that is enforced differs. also, each fraternity and sorority has their own take on what constitutes hazing, mine has a zero tolerance policy that is strictly adhered to, and i'm not just saying that. there are some fraternity chapters at my school that do haze, and they justify it as building strength and leadership.
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    Apr 05, 2009 3:27 PM GMT
    Freshmen on my campus couldn't join a fraternity in 1967, nor could we live off-campus anywhere, only in assigned college dorms for our first year. At least mandatory Army ROTC enrollment for all male freshman had ended the year before I arrived. (Ironic I later had a 25-year Army career and would teach ROTC myself)

    But Sophomores could pledge, and the hazing the men had was legendary. A popular one was tying them naked to trees and leaving them out overnight, usually in front of a sorority or a women's dorm, until someone came along and released them. Walking to my early morning class and seeing naked guys still tied to trees, begging for help, was always a delight.

    I dropped out during my Freshman year, joining the Army 18 months later, so I didn't pledge at that time. When I returned to college in my mid-20s, already an Army Officer who needed a degree to continue my career, I felt I was too old for a fraternity. The whole concept by then seemed rather immature to me, especially being initiated by younger guys who hadn't gone through a fraction of the things I had in the Army.

    I hope hazing is mostly prohibited now, other than having innocuous membership rituals.
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    Apr 05, 2009 3:39 PM GMT
    Technically the term hazing means forcing someone to do anything against their will.

    I don't want to take exams but the school forces me to take them, therefore by definition the school is hazing me. They try to get around that position by saying I chose to go to school.

    I chose to join a fraternity too so why is there a difference?

    Today it seems like the generation before who I think had some of the worst hazing is now trying to turn around and "protect" the new generation. There is some hazing that takes it overboard and has led to death. So before someone bites my head off for that I had to get that out there. However what started out protecting the next generation has turned into overprotection.....no basically the insane over-protective parent.

    According to Pan-Hellenic (the main sorority council) they can't even call their new girls "pledges." Now they have to call them new members because it's considered hazing. Also they can't say "sober sister" because its hazing and a liability issue (that one is really sad because having a sober sister or brother helps prevent others from driving drunk). O and appearently now houses aren't supposed to give exams to their pledges because it can put strain on them to have to learn about the history of our houses and national or inter-national organizations. So how are those different from other exams at school......?

    I personally think some hazing is character building. After I joined, pledged, and got initiated all the older members said I grew up a LOT and were impressed with how far I came since I first stepped through the doors to my house. I look back and don't consider what happened to me hazing nor am I scarred for life.

    Some places do take it to the extreme and those actions aren't cool but in my opinion some hazing is good and needed.
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    Apr 05, 2009 3:42 PM GMT
    The TDK house was so lucky to get me - I wasn't put through any sort of hazing or initiation - that shows you what a hunky stud I was!

    (LIE!) I was put through so much shit - like anybody else at the end of the 70s - Imagine being put into a barrel and rolled off the high dive - splashing into the water and sinking - having to kick hard to get out and swim to the surface before running out of air. Or - being carried naked and thrown into White Plaza's fountain (The Claw for those of you who know where this is) and having to run back to the house (mid day - busiest area of campus) naked.......causing people to stare, shout, curse at me, laugh at my shriveled parts! Other more insidious sexual things with prods, and even (oh God, why am I admitting this?) a tennis racquet. (enough lube and you can take it - I found out!)
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    Apr 05, 2009 3:45 PM GMT
    Most campuses also turn a blind eye. I was hazed and so were my brothers both verbally and physically. I would like to say that at some point people said enough and won't haze again. I swore I wouldn't but the fact of the matter is one works so hard to get into the organization and endures so much that when you get rid of hazing one feels that it becomes way to easy for future generations and that they won't appreciate the brotherhood as much.

    I kept to my promise and didn't physically haze anyone; but I did sit back and watch as all those in my pledge class and subsequent ones promise the same and the second they became active, BAM haze hammer came.

    All campuses ban it and all National social Fraternities ban it

    Do I have stories? I yes, yes I have stories.

    Everything from goats, horny actives, nudity. While everything is done to denigrate you, the bonds you form are amazing.

    I really don't get along with one of my pledge brothers. We are just two different people who have nothing in common. But, when he went into surgery, I was the first one at the hospital when he was admitted and the only one after he came out of surgery. Some things you just can't ever let go.

    O and the kids father founded my chapter of the Fraternity on campus, so he arrived, saw I was there, smiled, and left.
  • swimbikerun

    Posts: 2835

    Apr 05, 2009 4:10 PM GMT
    Although the hazing I went through was homo-erotic, it was not fun.
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    Apr 05, 2009 4:29 PM GMT
    Ok, who the hell would let someone beat them with a stick to be accepted into a temporary association? Are people so starved for acceptance?

    Come at me with a stick and you'll be going to the proctologist for emergency removal.

    It's beyond me. icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Apr 05, 2009 4:53 PM GMT
    One it's not temporary, in my house you are a member for life, there is still more we can do in the Inter-National Fraternity after we go alumni. Being in my house is a life long commitment not just 4 years.

    Being in a house is not about being beatin by a stick you obviously have no clue what you are talking about so don't weigh in. It gets really annoying when people say all fraternity guys are gay or closeted, that we beat each other all the time, that we pay people to be our friends.

    Being Greek is more than that, its about the bond, the brotherhood, the fact that we raise money for causes that most people don't give two cents about, and unless you are a part of it you will never know.

    75% of all donations to my school comes from people who joined a fraternity or sorority.

    70% of the top executives in the Fortune 500, and 71% of the men listed in Who's Who in America are Fraternity men.

    All but three U.S. Presidents in the last century were Fraternity men.

    Over 85% of the student leaders on some 730 campuses are involved in the Greek community.

    85% of the U.S. Supreme Court justices since 1900

    A U.S. Government study shows that over 70% of all those who join a fraternity/sororitiy graduate, while under 50% of all non-fraternity/sorority persons graduate.

    Less than 2% of an average college student's expenses go toward fraternity dues.

    Greeks push themselves to a higher standard than the average college student.
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    Apr 05, 2009 7:25 PM GMT
    As I sit here eating hash browns and ketchup, I am reminded of the hazing trials I had to endure to get into my frat, already I can feel the emotions swelling. Suddenly after reading this thread I feel sad, but the kind of sadness that fills you up, tastes like cherry carmex, and smells like A&F fierce. His name was Tommy and the second I looked at the crowd I was unable to take him out of my mind. I had heard his name before, usually with, "tennis star" "wild and mischievous (the frat house was known for pranks, most to Tommy's credit)" I knew I had to rush, I didn't think of myself as gay at the time, and thought Tommy had just made a powerful impression on my as bright individuals are apt to do.

    Fast forward two weeks. I'm at a rush party. It's only 9:30 and someone is wasted and stuck in a tree they climbed and now can't get out, a circle of people looking up at him and laughing, a few guys jab at him with sticks like he's one fat pinata. I see Tommy amongst the spectators and walk over, I had no idea what I was going to say. I stand next to him, sipping my drink and pretending my main intrest is the idiot in the tree when really I'm stealing glances at Tommy's giant bicep as he takes a drink. I glance up at his beautiful face and unruly black hair and see him looking at me out of the corner of his eye, a smirk on his plump lips. I tense up and look back at the drunk guy, faking a interested laugh, sure he had caught me checking him out. I abort the "talk to tommy" mission and walk back to the house to get another drink.

    Later on during the night, I'm playing a drinking game with a group of friendly people, some I already knew and some I just met. I quickly get absorbed in conversation with Britney, the girl sitting next to me, when everyone gets up in a hurry and moves to the back porch. Britney and I get up as well and follow the rest, I can hear the passing people saying something about Tommy. We get out to the porch and I see Tommy standing next to two other guys. A pull up contest inspired by alcohol. I have to hold in my expression of awe as I watch Tommy compete, his black polo was pulled up and I caught glipses of his abs and adonis belt. He beats the other guys by 20 pull ups. He's the center of attention, people are patting him on the back, running off to go get him a drink, surrounding him like electrons, all the while he seems to be looking past them and at me. I tell meself that it's just the beer playing with my hopes but then I see him walking over, the crowd parts for him like water.

    He stands there, just looking at me, and me looking back thinking, "wtf?" what the fuck do I do?!" and trying to keep calm. "I saw you looking at me" he says. Again I don't know what to say but keep wondering if this situation is actually happening or I'm passed out drunk somewhere. "You were...you were really good." I choke out. He has this grin like he's toying with me. He laughs and runs his hand through his lush hair, "yeah I think it's important to keep in shape you know?" I lose my breath at another flash of his great arms and white teeth; and melt when I realize he was being modest.

    I manage to shift the conversation to tennis and he sits down next to me, our sides touching and electrifying me. We talk forever, people come up and try to pull him away but he turns them all down, we don't break eye contact for more than five seconds each time. Steadily drinking and talking on the porch, occasionally laughing together when a drunk girl would reappear, her red hair messy and barefoot, always asking, "where are my shoes?" The guests have thinned out and I don't realize how late it is and have lost count of how many drinks I had. The drunker Tommy got the more touchy feely he became, hugging me, messing my hair, pushing my shoulder. I look at my cellphone, almost four in the morning. Tommy notices my surprise and asks, "how do you plan to get home?" I jingle my keys. "Stay here, you are too drunk to drive." "I agree." We talk for a bit more before we both go inside to pee and reheat pizza. A couple slices later, a bit more sobered up, conversation lulls into a comfortable silence as we both sit across from eachother at the kitchen table. He keeps giving me these strange looks, and I know he is thinking something about me. "Where do I sleep?" I ask. "In my room of course."

    Tired, we both go upstairs to his room. He turns on the lamp on his nightstand and starts to undress. He expects us to sleep in the same bed, it's a queen size bed so there is room enough for two but I can't shake the weirdness of knowing him for one night and feeling like I've known him all my life. He takes off his jeans, I do the same. I slip under the covers and lay on my back, looking at the glowing stars he has on his ceiling. I can hear his breathing relax. Sometime during the night he has me pulled to his strong chest, holding me like I'm some giant teddy bear. The way our legs are positioned I can feel the large hardness in between his muscled legs. My hand is on his bare stomach, I can feel his abs contract as he shifts slightly and breathes. I pray for morning and that I'm not gay.

    In the morning Tommy sits up and looks and me, knowing. And then it's as if I know too. The sun from his window feels warm on our skin. It was only the beginning.
  • OutOfEden

    Posts: 100

    Apr 05, 2009 7:29 PM GMT
    I recognize this is as an attempt to hear some homoerotic stories for self gratification but the only comment I have is that Hazing is Wrong, it weakens individuals and the organization, and it's a crime in all states in the U.S.
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    Apr 05, 2009 8:03 PM GMT
    and just wondering, anyone know how hazing started??
  • Sebastian18

    Posts: 255

    Apr 05, 2009 8:27 PM GMT
    Miasma saidand just wondering, anyone know how hazing started??


    Its been a part of initiatory societies since the dawn of humanity. In its ideal form, hazing is supposed to function in a similar way to boot-camp in the military: you break down the individual emotionally and then rebuild them according to the ideals of the fraternity itself.

    That being said, I think in many respects there's a spectrum of what is and isn't acceptable in regards to hazing and initiation however I personally believe that in order for initiation to be successful to the individual, that individual needs to be put into a position that challenges their current frame of consciousness while not compromising their individual integrity to damaging levels.
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    Apr 05, 2009 9:07 PM GMT
    LifeguardGuy saidOne it's not temporary, in my house you are a member for life, there is still more we can do in the Inter-National Fraternity after we go alumni. Being in my house is a life long commitment not just 4 years... (ad nauseam)

    It's likely I was born & raised more privileged and wealthy than you could ever imagine, for all your fraternal snobbery. These are exactly the undemocratic class distinctions that I rejected when young, as being un-American and incompatible with our Constitutional principles of equality.

    I don't care how many US Presidents, and CEOs and whatnots, cited in your previous post, have been members of fraternities. It is not those who succeed when they have the inside track that impress me, but rather those who succeed when they do not. Americans admire the underdogs, not the anointed.

    I do find it curious, however, that you have little to say about sororities. Are women excluded from this blessed realm of yours? How telling, how prejudicial, against both women, and against all those who don't make your fraternal grade.

    This is a world I don't want, and won't accept. I prefer a world of meritocracy, where ability & guts make you special, not what fraternity you pledged, thanks to wealth, privilege and family connections. No wonder our political & economic leaders have ruined us in the last years. When you advance because of who you are, rather than because of what you do, your failure is guaranteed.
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    Apr 05, 2009 10:28 PM GMT
    I was sold off as a slave to the upper-classmen. Had to wear a diaper.
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    Apr 05, 2009 10:39 PM GMT
    Here's a link to a website that is a real life story about a family I know that lives here in Northern California.

    http://www.angelfire.com/hero2/wemissyoumattc/

    The state of California passed a law known as Matt's Law prohibiting hazing. As you can guess Matt Carrington died at the age of 21 due to a hazing ordeal. Here's a quote that his mother (who led the battle for the law unrelentingly) placed on the website:

    On February 2, 2005, Matt was left to die of water intoxication on the floor of a cold, wet, sewer infested fraternity basement in Chico following hideous acts of hazing. He was terribly degraded and mistreated for the last three days of his life, all for the purpose of gaining admission into the fraternity, demonstrating his worthiness, and satisfying the brotherly love that the fraternity members promoted. Seven Chi Tau Fraternity Members have been charged with hazing and four of those have also been charged with felony manslaughter.


    I hope you don't have to know someone that dies to realize how wrong this practice is and how quickly it can get out of hand. Matt's death was not only a loss of life, but a loss for a family forever and something that the other members participating in will carry the rest of their lives. Senseless, there's just NO other way of explaining it.
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    Apr 05, 2009 10:39 PM GMT
    Miasma saidAs I sit here eating hash browns and ketchup, I am reminded of the hazing trials I had to endure to get into my frat


    You would be the first person I have ever met who has ever called his Fraternity a "frat"...

    You don't call your country a cunt.
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    Apr 05, 2009 10:57 PM GMT
    Red_Vespa said
    LifeguardGuy saidOne it's not temporary, in my house you are a member for life, there is still more we can do in the Inter-National Fraternity after we go alumni. Being in my house is a life long commitment not just 4 years... (ad nauseam)

    It's likely I was born & raised more privileged and wealthy than you could ever imagine, for all your fraternal snobbery. These are exactly the undemocratic class distinctions that I rejected when young, as being un-American and incompatible with our Constitutional principles of equality.

    I don't care how many US Presidents, and CEOs and whatnots, cited in your previous post, have been members of fraternities. It is not those who succeed when they have the inside track that impress me, but rather those who succeed when they do not. Americans admire the underdogs, not the anointed.

    I do find it curious, however, that you have little to say about sororities. Are women excluded from this blessed realm of yours? How telling, how prejudicial, against both women, and against all those who don't make your fraternal grade.

    This is a world I don't want, and won't accept. I prefer a world of meritocracy, where ability & guts make you special, not what fraternity you pledged, thanks to wealth, privilege and family connections. No wonder our political & economic leaders have ruined us in the last years. When you advance because of who you are, rather than because of what you do, your failure is guaranteed.


    Red_Vespa:

    You have NO IDEA what my house is like. I go to school in MONTANA one of the poorest freakin states in the country. A majority of the guys in my house come from non-wealthy families. Being in a fraternity is NOT about how much money you have. It might be that way in the big cities were snobs like YOU try to say you're better than someone. My house isn't one of these snobby rich fraternities my house is built on the brotherhood not how much money we have. The people who came from my house in MONTANA didn't come from these wealthy families, they weren't born with priviliges, they came from hard-working blue-collar families so don't you dare call us snobby.

    My facts were about fraternities since this is a site designed for men to show ignorant guys like you something OTHER than the stereotype of fraternity men, if you want I will gladly give you facts about sororities.

    I will defend my fraternity to the death because I love my house and my brothers. Each fraternity is different from the next, hell even each chapter is different from the next. I'm sorry you have such prejudice against fraternities but you do not have the right to say anything bad and call us snobs since you haven't seen every fraternity.

    Some of the CEOs btw started from NOTHING and made their way up just because they are CEO's now doesn't mean they were born into wealthy families like you. It sickens me when people like you who were born with everything think you can say you're better because you rejected your status. Try being born into a lower class family and work you're way up like my family only to have snobs like you say how dare you be elitist it's so wrong.
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    Apr 05, 2009 11:08 PM GMT
    LifeguardGuy said75% of all donations to my school comes from people who joined a fraternity or sorority.

    70% of the top executives in the Fortune 500, and 71% of the men listed in Who's Who in America are Fraternity men.

    All but three U.S. Presidents in the last century were Fraternity men.

    Over 85% of the student leaders on some 730 campuses are involved in the Greek community.

    85% of the U.S. Supreme Court justices since 1900

    A U.S. Government study shows that over 70% of all those who join a fraternity/sororitiy graduate, while under 50% of all non-fraternity/sorority persons graduate.

    Less than 2% of an average college student's expenses go toward fraternity dues.

    Greeks push themselves to a higher standard than the average college student.
    So what did you have to do to get into your fraternity? Was there initiation/hazing for entry? The posting is about hazing, not what the members do after they get in. Also, you might want to add to your stats about faternities that at least 1 young man died trying to get in, and certainly you can increase that number by doing research I'm sure. What percentage of what you raise goes toward education of the damage hazing for entry into fraternities can do? Might be a nice service project to recommend. Check out the website I posted earlier.
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    Apr 05, 2009 11:28 PM GMT
    LifeguardGuy saidOne it's not temporary, in my house you are a member for life, there is still more we can do in the Inter-National Fraternity after we go alumni. Being in my house is a life long commitment not just 4 years.

    Being in a house is not about being beatin by a stick you obviously have no clue what you are talking about so don't weigh in. It gets really annoying when people say all fraternity guys are gay or closeted, that we beat each other all the time, that we pay people to be our friends.

    Being Greek is more than that, its about the bond, the brotherhood, the fact that we raise money for causes that most people don't give two cents about, and unless you are a part of it you will never know.

    75% of all donations to my school comes from people who joined a fraternity or sorority.

    70% of the top executives in the Fortune 500, and 71% of the men listed in Who's Who in America are Fraternity men.

    All but three U.S. Presidents in the last century were Fraternity men.

    Over 85% of the student leaders on some 730 campuses are involved in the Greek community.

    85% of the U.S. Supreme Court justices since 1900

    A U.S. Government study shows that over 70% of all those who join a fraternity/sororitiy graduate, while under 50% of all non-fraternity/sorority persons graduate.

    Less than 2% of an average college student's expenses go toward fraternity dues.

    Greeks push themselves to a higher standard than the average college student.


    If you scroll up and adjust your beady rat eyes you'll perhaps see the picture of some guy being smacked with a stick as part of initiation, which by the way is what this thread is about.

    And to all your facts: Whoop dee fucking do!

    I'm sure there are a lot of Greeks in those fraternities. Just because one joins a 'house' with a few Greek alphabet letters on the front wall, and lets some dipshit fuck them up a little, doesn't mean they are Greek by any stretch of the imagination.

    'Oh hey guess what dudes, I'm Irish! '
    '... what?'
    'Yeah I went and got drunk on some Irish whiskey and joined a Gaelic appreciation club on the intarwebs and now I'm Irish!'
    '... you moron.'


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    Apr 05, 2009 11:37 PM GMT
    beeker said
    LifeguardGuy saidOne it's not temporary, in my house you are a member for life, there is still more we can do in the Inter-National Fraternity after we go alumni. Being in my house is a life long commitment not just 4 years.

    Being in a house is not about being beatin by a stick you obviously have no clue what you are talking about so don't weigh in. It gets really annoying when people say all fraternity guys are gay or closeted, that we beat each other all the time, that we pay people to be our friends.

    Being Greek is more than that, its about the bond, the brotherhood, the fact that we raise money for causes that most people don't give two cents about, and unless you are a part of it you will never know.

    75% of all donations to my school comes from people who joined a fraternity or sorority.

    70% of the top executives in the Fortune 500, and 71% of the men listed in Who's Who in America are Fraternity men.

    All but three U.S. Presidents in the last century were Fraternity men.

    Over 85% of the student leaders on some 730 campuses are involved in the Greek community.

    85% of the U.S. Supreme Court justices since 1900

    A U.S. Government study shows that over 70% of all those who join a fraternity/sororitiy graduate, while under 50% of all non-fraternity/sorority persons graduate.

    Less than 2% of an average college student's expenses go toward fraternity dues.

    Greeks push themselves to a higher standard than the average college student.


    If you scroll up and adjust your beady rat eyes you'll perhaps see the picture of some guy being smacked with a stick as part of initiation, which by the way is what this thread is about.

    And to all your facts: Whoop dee fucking do!

    I'm sure there are a lot of Greeks in those fraternities. Just because one joins a 'house' with a few Greek alphabet letters on the front wall, and lets some dipshit fuck them up a little, doesn't mean they are Greek by any stretch of the imagination.

    'Oh hey guess what dudes, I'm Irish! '
    '... what?'
    'Yeah I went and got drunk on some Irish whiskey and joined a Gaelic appreciation club on the intarwebs and now I'm Irish!'
    '... you moron.'





    Dude you are a complete moron being in a fraternity and saying you're Greek doesn't mean we think we are from GREECE, fraternities and sororities have been called the Greek system and live (on some campuses) Greek row. None of us BELIEVE we are GREEK heritage its been called the Greek system since before you were born so again you have NO CLUE what you are talking about therefor BUTT OUT.

    Some of you would say I was hazed but you know what I don't think I was. Some people are too sensitive when it comes to that word. YES there is hazing that goes WAY TOO FAR and harms and even has killed some people and i DON'T condone that. The stuff I went through was all in character building at I was not forced to do anything I did not believe in. Was I told to drink YES when I was told to drink and I was at my limit and I said NO then the guys said ok and didn't make me drink anymore. It was up to me and I would say no and not follow pin and guess what they STILL put me through why because in my house we believe in holding to YOUR own morals and standing up for yourself. These are the guys WE put through.
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    Apr 05, 2009 11:39 PM GMT
    Greeks don't get non-Greeks. Non-Greeks don't get Greeks.

    /thread