PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE HELP! Traditional Values Coalition Trying to Kill Hate Crimes Bill

  • metta

    Posts: 39158

    Apr 08, 2009 7:42 PM GMT




    Please Go to this link and ask your representatives to co-sponsor this bill.

    https://secure.aclu.org/site/Advocacy?JServSessionIdr009=m4dfg3qvf1.app23a&pagename=homepage&id=643&page=UserAction



    -----------------------------------------------------------------------


    I subscribe to the Traditional Values Coalition email list to keep up with the next dirty trick they are up to. The latest email is to push for more funds to kill the hate crime legislation. Can I get a FUCK YOU BASTARDS!

    We need to push back and make sure that we push even harder for the hate crimes bill to be passed. What the hell does supporting a hate crimes bill have to do with being anti-Christian.

    [quote]

    Anti-Christian ‘Hate Crimes’ on Fast Track!
    Dear TVC Supporter: April 8, 2009
    We know you’re concerned about many things – about the economy, about our national security, about your freedoms and much more. You are alarmed by what kind of America your children and grandchildren will grow up in.
    , a financial investment today to protect religious freedom is an investment in your children and grandchildren’s future freedoms.
    We have some good news and bad news for you. The bad news is that the so-called hate crimes bill has just been re-introduced in Congress and is a thinly veiled attempt at silencing Christians.
    The so-called hate crimes bill is on the fast track. A vote is expected in the House Judiciary Committee in a matter of weeks. We have been told it will be the week of April 20th!
    Your pastor could be prosecuted for “conspiracy to commit a hate crime” if it passes.
    The so-called hate crimes bill will be used to lay the legal foundation and framework to investigate, prosecute and persecute pastors, business owners, Bible teachers, Sunday School teachers, youth leaders, Christian counselors, religious broadcasters and anyone else whose actions are based upon and reflect the truths found in the Bible. We have the proof for this statement.**
    Again, Your financial investment today to protect religious freedom is an investment in your children and grandchildren’s future freedoms.
    The good news is that with your support , we might be able to defeat this threat as we did last time – even with a liberal-controlled House and Senate. Leaders of the homosexual movement fear that without a strong victory on the so-called hate crimes bill they won’t have enough momentum to win other battles. Here is their plea for help.
    Make no mistake—this is a fight we cannot afford to lose because the consequences would go far beyond hate crimes reform. Without a strong victory, the extreme right would have a beachhead and wind in its sails to deny us an inclusive ENDA, relationship recognition measures, and the repeal of Don't Ask, Don't Tell.

    Traditional Values Coalition needs your financial support , and your prayers to HELP US KILL this bill by giving us the ability to wage a relentless lobbying and educational war against passage of this legislation.
    Donate now to TVC
    Your Voice at the Capitol,
    Rev. Louis P. Sheldon, Founder and Chairman
    Andrea Lafferty, Executive Director


    [/quote]








  • metta

    Posts: 39158

    Apr 08, 2009 7:42 PM GMT
    [quote]


    Protecting LGBT Americans from Hate and Upholding our First Amendment: No Zero Sum Game

    New hate crimes legislation was introduced last Thursday night in the House that would extend critical protections to Americans based on their actual or perceived sexual orientation, gender, gender identity, or disability. Additionally, the legislation strengthens existing protections on the basis of race, color, religion, and national origin. The new, bipartisan bill, introduced by Rep. John Conyers (D-Mich.) and Mark Kirk (R-Ill.), is a reintroduction of former legislation that was passed by both chambers of Congress in 2007, but ultimately failed to become law because of a veto threat from then-President Bush. This legislation, called the Local Law Enforcement Hate Crimes Prevention Act, is already supported by President Obama who has pledged to sign it into law once it reaches his desk. A Senate version of the bill, previously sponsored by Senator Kennedy, is also expected to be introduced shortly. Momentum is behind this legislation!

    The original bill, called the Matthew Shepard Act, was sparked by the brutal killing of a gay, 21-year-old University of Wyoming student in 1998 that shocked the conscience of our nation at the time. The ACLU is joined by hundreds of other religious, civil rights, and law enforcement organizations in support of this legislation because of its very strong First Amendment protections, as well as the power it gives to the Justice Department to investigate crimes in which the victim was selected specifically because of their actual or perceived race, color, religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, or disability.

    According to the FBI’s most recent statistics from 2007, 7,624 hate crime offenses were reported, with nearly 17 percent of those crimes being violent crimes motivated by a person’s presumed sexual orientation. This legislation is long overdue; however, the need for it has never been greater. Urge your Members of Congress to co-sponsor and support H.R. 1913, the Local Law Enforcement Hate Crimes Prevention Act, today.

    [/quote]


    http://blog.aclu.org/2009/04/06/protecting-lgbt-americans-from-hate-and-upholding-our-first-amendment-no-zero-sum-game/
  • metta

    Posts: 39158

    Apr 08, 2009 7:44 PM GMT
    Federal hate crimes bill introduced in House
    Measure lets feds prosecute bias-motivated violence
    http://www.southernvoice.com/thelatest/thelatest.cfm?blog_id=24830


    Matthew Shepard Foundation: http://www.matthewshepard.org

    Matthew Shepard Act
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Shepard_Act
  • metta

    Posts: 39158

    Apr 08, 2009 8:35 PM GMT
    If any of you post on any of the Christian boards, I ask that you consider posting something related to the following:

    Traditional Values Coalition pushes anti Christian values of deep instilled hate in an attempt to raise funds quickly. Please "love thy neighbor" and don't get caught up in their tricks.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 09, 2009 1:08 AM GMT


    Hey metta8, those fools want to kill the hate crime legislation because it will probably mean they can't do this anymore:


    https://secure.couragecampaign.org/page/contribute/TurnFearIntoHope


    Take a look at the ad, which the website ( a good one) is trying to fight.
  • metta

    Posts: 39158

    Apr 09, 2009 6:26 PM GMT
    meninlove said

    Hey metta8, those fools want to kill the hate crime legislation because it will probably mean they can't do this anymore:


    https://secure.couragecampaign.org/page/contribute/TurnFearIntoHope


    Take a look at the ad, which the website ( a good one) is trying to fight.



    That commercial is pretty bad. So tired of these nuts. icon_confused.gif
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14380

    Apr 09, 2009 9:18 PM GMT
    Where are these religious conservatives getting these stupid ideas that hate crimes legislation will restrict their freedom and extinguish their religious lifestyle. I am so sick and damned tired of these mentally unstable, ultra conservative wingnuts and all their fairy tale doomsday scenarios and praying for God to punish America for granting equality to everybody. I would not be surprised if they are also targeting many European countries for their progressive laws. These idiots know no boundaries and that is one thing that makes them potentially dangerous.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 11, 2009 1:39 AM GMT
    The far right is making it obvious that they think anything that is against their beliefs is an affront to their 'freedoms', and infringing on their 'god given' right to make sure every person and every law is according to what they perceive 'god wants us to do'. If it isn't their way, then our 'nation under god' is becoming 'godless' and we may suffer more tornado's, or earthquakes, or hurricanes. Thank you very much for posting this, and i will make some contacts this coming monday. Take a look at the site "right wing watch" it gives a list of some very hateful 'christian' efforts, at least once a week if you sign up for it. Its good like you say to keep abreast of their idiocy, in the name of god.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 11, 2009 7:46 AM GMT
    Hey, maybe it's their preference to dislike hate crimes protection. We all have our preferences right.

    So as RJ posters say: here we go again. Just get over it dude.
  • Delivis

    Posts: 2332

    Apr 11, 2009 9:11 AM GMT
    The whole concept of a hate crime is ludracris to me.
  • metta

    Posts: 39158

    Apr 21, 2009 4:11 PM GMT






    Please go to this link and send this email to ask your representative to support the Matthew Shepard Act.



    http://www.hrcactioncenter.org/campaign/hate_crimes_video




  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 21, 2009 4:16 PM GMT
    twentysixpoint2 saidHey, maybe it's their preference to dislike hate crimes protection. We all have our preferences right.

    So as RJ posters say: here we go again. Just get over it dude.


    LOL, you said iticon_exclaim.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 21, 2009 4:16 PM GMT
    All hate crime legislation is facist. You can't criminalize thought in a free society. Not to worry though, people are going to have enough of the democrats and Obama's marxist bullshit soon enough.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 21, 2009 4:21 PM GMT
    Really Philly!

    lunatic. This very law would protect you! Not everything leads back to our President JERK!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 21, 2009 4:43 PM GMT
    I could be wrong, but I think the "Christian" Right is concerned that they won't be able to preach against homosexuality because it would be considered a hate crime. Why this is even an issue, however, I have no idea. Jesus never mentioned homosexuality and the subject has nothing to do with the Gospel message. Which is what they're supposed to be preaching anyway.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 21, 2009 5:07 PM GMT
    Philadelphiabound saidAll hate crime legislation is facist. You can't criminalize thought in a free society. Not to worry though, people are going to have enough of the democrats and Obama's marxist bullshit soon enough.


    Actually, you can criminalize though in society (no society is free. There are consequences for all actions) if it is connected to a crime such as murder. It is commonly referred to as premeditation, as in premeditated murder. Consider that a freebie. Next time, how about actually doing a bit of work and research the issue before you post.

    We all know that killing someone is pretty bad, to keep it simple. However, when that killing is motivated by hatred of someone because of racism, homophobia, gender-hate, it is worse. It is not the same as a robber going into a bank, robbing it and killing the guard on the way out who tried to stop him. It is a different level because these thoughts didn't just pop up within the hour or overnight. They simmer and 90% of the time, the killers in these cases actually seek out their victims, which add to the charge-premeditation, adding a severer penalty. Since gays and lesbians are not included in the hate crime laws in place, most likely, the perpetrator doesn't even get a murder charge. Usually at best, it is manslaughter,then a reduced charge and out in 3 to 5 years at best, usually.

    We,as a community, should be running to send emails to legislators about this, just as we do about gay marriage, ENDA, the repealing of DADT.

    And as for the snide remarks about the president: Yes, you are entitled to your opinion of Obama (even though at the time of this posting, he hadn't even been in office 100 days yet) just as I had every right to talk about the bogus election in 2000 that put Bush in office and the right to talk about how illegal the invasion of Iraq was. Just so we understand each other on that point. In this case, you can envoke the 1st amendment.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 21, 2009 9:25 PM GMT
    Philadelphiabound saidAll hate crime legislation is facist. You can't criminalize thought in a free society. Not to worry though, people are going to have enough of the democrats and Obama's marxist bullshit soon enough.


    I LOVE YOU! Finally, someone else on here who isn't completely insane.
  • a2507

    Posts: 152

    Apr 21, 2009 10:12 PM GMT
    Philadelphiabound saidAll hate crime legislation is facist. You can't criminalize thought in a free society. Not to worry though, people are going to have enough of the democrats and Obama's marxist bullshit soon enough.



    Just to reaffirm ErikTarean's comment, the law does precisely criminalize "thought," specifically the intent behind a crime.

    When one person kills another person, that crime can be manslaughter, 2nd degree murder, 1st degree murder. Note that the action, the taking of the victim's life, is the same: dead is dead. But it is precisely the intent, i.e. the "thought" which distinguishes manslaughter from murder one. Taking into account anti-Gay, or anti-Semetic, or racist intent is little different.

    Philadelphiabound's characterization of hate crimes legislation is standard GOP/right wing propaganda. Law exists not only to prosecute crimes committed but also the law has a prophylactic effect (yes, it helps prevent things ;-) and represents our collective values. Having hate crimes laws which address other types of bias but which leave out LGBT folk speaks to the nation's hatred. Changing the law to include us won't prevent all hate crimes but goes to help change values.....it's symbolic.

    Finally, even though I disagree with Philadephiabound views here, I respect him for speaking up when he knows he will likely be in the minority but I also hope he will reconsider this legislation. I also hope Disc0Mat1979 might think again about calling those who have different values from him "insane." Also, he might look again at just what the GOP has done to LGBT people for the last 30 years to see if we really ought to be Republicans.
  • MSUBioNerd

    Posts: 1813

    Apr 21, 2009 10:21 PM GMT
    I commonly object to hate crime legislation due to the same notion: I don't think it's worse if someone decides to beat me up because I'm gay than if he decides to beat me up because I'm a nerd. It's the action I find criminal, not the motivation behind it. The motivation is despicable either way, but I have a deep philosophical objection to trying to legislate who you're allowed to hate.

    This particular bill, though, can be found in full text at http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-1913, and at first glance it doesn't appear to offer different punishments based on who the victim is. It allows the Justice Department to grant money to local authorities to investigate and prosecute violent crimes where the motivation was bias against race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, disability, or national origin. Since this is merely adding funds to allow for investigation and prosecution of what are already crimes, there's much less to object to in it.

    It also requires some sort of interstate nature of the crime (because federal authority relies upon the interstate commerce clause), but I find some of the statements about how this bias inherently affects interstate commerce because it changes who lives in what state to be very weak. It's like the convoluted reasoning behind the Supreme Court case a few years ago that decided that Californians growing marijuana on their own property and not selling it to anyone fell afoul of the interstate commerce portion of federal drug laws because by growing their own they were decreasing out-of-state demand and thus affecting the economics of producers in other states. Just because it's wrong for someone to do something doesn't mean that the federal government should be able to prosecute it; the federal system of granting the majority of prosecutorial power to the states is, overall, a good thing. Too much centralization of power can easily lead to a tyranny of the majority.

    What isn't entirely clear to me is whether the proposed amendment to section 18 of the US code that specifies federal punishments for these crimes is greater than, equal to, or less than the prevailing local punishments for the same crimes if you don't include the hate crime bias. If it does increase the penalty, then I continue to object. In all likelihood, I'd support this bill if section 7 of it were removed, but will probably have problems with that section.

    Also, anyone else find the specifics of this bill a little weird? Apparently, it would be a federal hate crime to assault someone with fire, a gun, or an explosive because you're biased against them for one of these reasons. Attack them with a knife or a baseball bat, on the other hand, and you're fine as far as the federal authorities are concerned...