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Gay Marriage?: You've Already Lost!
swimbikerun Posts: 1983	Apr 09, 2009 3:58 AM GMT

Hidden member	Apr 09, 2009 4:07 AM GMT what a fantastic man and what a fantastic story!!
Delivis Posts: 1390	Apr 09, 2009 4:11 AM GMT Good on him.
Hidden member	Apr 09, 2009 4:11 AM GMT That was great. The forum title was a bit misleading but glad I was in error and that I only misunderstood.
Hidden member	Apr 09, 2009 4:12 AM GMT oh that gave me chills! ... I wonder if the opponents to gay marriage realize that they are going to go down in history like the proponents of racism and slavery. Listen to the lady in this vid. She argues how when the gov't legalizes gay marriage, it means that the gov't will being teaching your children ideas contrary to your views and tell you that what you believe is not right. Now zip back 150 years in America and substitute a discussion on slavery and substitute the right to believe in slavery into her arguments. The same reasoning could have been used as an argument against abolishing slavery, but she doesnt see it ......I wish a moderator would call that out sometime...these people truly have already lost and they are totally bankrupt of arguments. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/30114722#30114722
ErikTaurean Posts: 1582	Apr 09, 2009 4:16 AM GMT A republican with a lesbian daughter sees the light. Thank you very much. Newt Gingrich might want to take a page from this guy. Outstanding!
Hidden member	Apr 09, 2009 4:23 AM GMT ErikTaurean saidA republican with a lesbian daughter sees the light. Thank you very much. Newt Gingrich might want to take a page from this guy. Outstanding! And VP Cheney
swimbikerun Posts: 1983	Apr 09, 2009 5:04 AM GMT Caslon10000 saidoh that gave me chills! ... Psyche!!!
Hidden member	Apr 09, 2009 5:13 AM GMT I'm paralyzed with hope.
Pinny Posts: 1726	Apr 09, 2009 5:22 AM GMT That women attaches way too much transcendental qualities to the biological function of a man and woman union.
stevendust Posts: 133	Apr 09, 2009 5:23 AM GMT BradySF saidI'm paralyzed with hope. Chills, paralyzed, all of the above. I commend that man.
ASUbusy Posts: 70	Apr 09, 2009 5:26 AM GMT how fantastic! the first thread i have seen on this site that excites me!
metta8 Posts: 1218	Apr 09, 2009 5:27 AM GMT Conservative Cal Thomas on gay marriage: The battle is over It's bitter and filled with the same ol anti-gay rhetoric.... [quote] To those on the political and religious right who are intent on continuing the battle to preserve “traditional marriage” in a nation that is rapidly discarding its traditions, I would ask this question: What poses a greater threat to our remaining moral underpinnings? Is it two homosexuals living together, or is it the number of heterosexuals who are divorcing and the increasing number of children born to unmarried women, now at nearly 40 percent, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention? Most of those who are disturbed about same-sex marriage are not as exercised about preserving heterosexual marriage. That’s because it doesn’t raise money and won’t get them on TV. Some preachers would rather demonize gays than oppose heterosexuals who violate their vows by divorcing, often causing harm to their children. That’s because so many in their congregations have been divorced and preaching against divorce might cause some to leave and take their contributions with them. The battle over same-sex marriage is on the way to being lost. For conservatives who still have faith in the political system to reverse the momentum, you are—to recall Harold Hill—“closing your eyes to a situation you do not wish to acknowledge. [/quote] http://www.worldmag.com/webextra/15243
Hidden member	Apr 09, 2009 5:35 AM GMT Good timing, and great point. He points out something that is just finally coming to light in this battle - Generation. The only common thread in supporters versus opponents is generation. The younger crowd doesn't care if gays have the right to marry, and most if they had to choose one or the other would choose to support the right to gay marriage. I have to say, I've never had so much respect for the way a politician made his point. He had attitude and grace. I just want to give him a GIANT hug!!!
Hidden member	Apr 09, 2009 5:43 AM GMT These beacons of hope are nice even if we still have a way to go. The key is the younger generation that perhaps have been exposed a little more to gay people even if in stereotypes and TV shows. The message is come out and be known when you have opportunity. Make friends with non-gays and when the time is right, let them know. Gays may be diverse and come from different backgrounds, but we all have the same desires for love and freedom. There will always be people that hate, but knowledge and truth will ultimately win.
Hidden member	Apr 09, 2009 5:45 AM GMT Good for him and good for his daughter!
Hidden member	Apr 09, 2009 6:12 AM GMT How powerfully eloquent! ...The simple declaration and wisdom of one gereation "coming of age and power" informing the elder generation that its time is at an end! The Daughter is BRILLIANT and "dad" NEEDS to be PROUD to no end of his daughter...BRAVO! Now spread that word to the bigots and curmudgeons in congress and in the other state houses that the next generation will be taking power and they are serving notice that things will be different....
inmidair Posts: 20	Apr 09, 2009 6:14 AM GMT 100 years ago, you couldn't marry someone of a different ethnicity. 300 years ago, your wife was property and arrived with a bundle of goods from her family. But 2000 years ago, I could have married another man and lived peacefully in any major culture in the world. So you can see, I'm all for "traditional" marriage. (Persecution of queer people didn't begin until the Roman emperor Constantine in the year 300 or so, and he did it as a way of solidifying his power as the first Christian emperor. I highly recommend Louis Crompton's "Homosexuality and Civilization", a fascinating read.)
Hidden member	Apr 09, 2009 6:50 AM GMT inmidair said100 years ago, you couldn't marry someone of a different ethnicity. 300 years ago, your wife was property and arrived with a bundle of goods from her family. But 2000 years ago, I could have married another man and lived peacefully in any major culture in the world. So you can see, I'm all for "traditional" marriage. (Persecution of queer people didn't begin until the Roman emperor Constantine in the year 300 or so, and he did it as a way of solidifying his power as the first Christian emperor. I highly recommend Louis Crompton's "Homosexuality and Civilization", a fascinating read.) I am looking for good gay history books .. but you can also go here (where it started - well sort of) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_LGBT_history* 342 – The first law against homosexual marriage was promulgated by the Christian emperors Constantius II and Constans. [11]
Mystic_Man Posts: 1942	Apr 09, 2009 9:28 AM GMT Now, if he would only come to the cocervo town I am in and speak. It would be nice to hold hands, kis and just be normal...I wonder how many life times it will take for me....do feel I can do that!?
Hidden member	Apr 09, 2009 9:45 AM GMT Unfortunately there is more to that convo:
Hidden member	Apr 09, 2009 9:59 AM GMT cjcscuba1984 saidUnfortunately there is more to that convo: Putting it in context only made Gronstal's reply more poignant. There are going to be old men like in this video who are going to still rant against the change in society, but the refusal to join him in front of all the other senator, I would think will isolate his attitude and make other senators more likely to see the trend of the future and go with it.
Hidden member	Apr 09, 2009 10:09 AM GMT Caslon10000 said Putting it in context only made Gronstal's reply more poignant. There are going to be old men like in this video who are going to still rant against the change in society, but the refusal to join him in front of all the other senator, I would think will isolate his attitude and make other senators more likely to see the trend of the future and go with it. I just wish Gronstal would have responded... and if he did, I wish we could have heard it. It it important to respond to that anti-gay marriage legislator... I hope someone responded.
acuariosalvaj... Posts: 66	Apr 09, 2009 11:07 AM GMT Thank you very much for posting this. While it does not affect me directly, it is VERY encouraging.
roadbikeRob Posts: 855	Apr 09, 2009 9:29 PM GMT A very outstanding political leader and a great American in my book. We definitely need many more politicians like the governor of Iowa.
Hidden member	Apr 09, 2009 9:54 PM GMT Wow!
Catera98102 Posts: 111	Apr 09, 2009 10:08 PM GMT Great clip! Thanks for posting something positive on the site!
coolarmydude Posts: 3039	Apr 09, 2009 10:13 PM GMT Happy tears in my eyes!!!!
waxon Posts: 559	Apr 09, 2009 10:43 PM GMT i love guys like him ,they give me hope and faith that our country isnt doomed
TomiR1 Posts: 327	Apr 09, 2009 10:55 PM GMT CONGRATS U.S.A! That speech made me cry of joy!
Hidden member	Apr 09, 2009 11:13 PM GMT Indeed, In California, over 70% of the voters under 30 years old voted no on Prop 8. Now, we just need to keep focusing on voting mobilization for the young. But with time, I agree, they have already lost.
FreeThinker20... Posts: 942	Apr 09, 2009 11:17 PM GMT ErikTaurean saidA republican with a lesbian daughter sees the light. Thank you very much. Newt Gingrich might want to take a page from this guy. Outstanding! Gronstal is a Democrat, and Newt Gingrich has a sister who works with HRC Human Rights Campaign.
Hidden member	Apr 09, 2009 11:19 PM GMT AWESOME!
Hidden member	Apr 09, 2009 11:20 PM GMT The conservatives/fundies are on the wrong side of history on this issue (as they are with the issue of universal healthcare in the US)...what this will take, however if we are to gain full equality, is for gays EVERYWHERE to say, "Yes marriage is nice in Iowa but I don't live there, nor should I have to...equal citizenship rights (which is what this issue is really about if you strip away the sentimentality) belong to everyone, not just those in one state over another." I only hope gays can keep their anger and righteousness on this issue.
swimbikerun Posts: 1983	Apr 10, 2009 9:52 PM GMT So what does the Mormon Church do now? It's looking like they won the Battle of California but have lost the Hearts and Minds of the next generation...

Hidden member	Apr 10, 2009 9:59 PM GMT swimbikerun saidSo what does the Mormon Church do now? It's looking like they won the Battle of California but have lost the Hearts and Minds of the next generation... The one who led Prop h8te just plain lost their minds ..