Any christians here?

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    Oct 31, 2007 12:47 AM GMT
    Hardly anyone post here. so here i go..

    for those of you who consider yourself christian, the questions is

    What is your attitude toward Bible; "word for word", "pick and choose" or , "what is bible"

    I have a hard time dealing with my own faith and being gay, i'm sure there must be people like me. so i'd like to heard your view on this. And please, dont' give me that being good and do good things is all there is as christian. i'd change to buddhism and set myself free from this struggle. I"m christian not because of tradition, things i did when i was young, or what i brought up to be. I am because i choose to be and that i see truth in it. yet the bible bothers me. that's all
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    Oct 31, 2007 1:07 AM GMT
    [shrugs] I'm a "word for word" Christian. Then again, I'm also an Episcopalian icon_biggrin.gif, so maybe it's easier for me to find acceptance within my faith.

    I was an agnostic for the longest time, 'til I decided to take the plunge and choose to believe. At the time I think I mostly did it for my mom's faith, but I've come around to believing because of her faith (read: witness) so that's why I'm a Christian now.

    But in my opinion, the Bible is the only thing we have to go on. We have all these teachings by people ordained by the church, and by people who think they're experts on morals, esp. ones provided by Christianity, and they're all terribly off, hypocritical, and misinformed, if you actually read the Bible. The Bible is supposed to be divinely inspired, whereas these 'experts' are just average Americans with a lower IQ than me and more studying in what they want to believe, so I'm going to go with trusting the Bible as basically the only source I have to Christian enlightenment.

    Just my two cents.
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    Oct 31, 2007 3:50 AM GMT
    I'm not Christian, I'm jewish by heritage, and technically agnostic now I suppose.

    But it's always been my understanding that NO SIN IS WORSE THAN ANY OTHER SIN (I believe it actually says that in the bible, though in more expansive words). That is to say you are no more going to hell for being gay than eating shellfish or drinking alcohol or committing any other of the numerous sins laid out in the bible. Jesus forgives those who accept his forgiveness... and if you're gay, then you're gay.. it's probably not your choice. I'm sure Jesus understands that, and from what you've said you're a Christian meaning you accept Jesus, and that's all he really asks of you.

    In my opinion - and this is strictly opinion, I don't mean to offend - the churches shunning and condemning of homosexuality is a multitude of things on many levels, ranging from sociological reasons, money, spread of the church, and power.

    But the basis of it I believe is genuinely good in nature. And how can a truly loving God hate and damn his children because of something they have no control over?
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    Oct 31, 2007 4:08 AM GMT
    I'm Gay AND Roman Catholic, and I totally know what you're talking about. A lot of people find it impossible to believe in a faith where the general consensus is 'Being gay is being a sinner so it's pointless'.

    The way I figure it, The Bible is a book, written by humans and not God. It's the best guide we have to faith, but because it was made by man, it isn't perfect. I still believe it just as much as any other catholic though.

    There are many things in the Bible that don't make sense or are just completely outlandish. From what I've seen, according to the Bible, you can figure that a woman is only worth seven year's of a man's salary. It's up to you whether you choose to believe them or not. No one follows the Bible 100%, mostly because they don't know theyre doing something 'wrong'.

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    Oct 31, 2007 4:48 AM GMT
    i'm a baptized catholic raised in several jesus worshipping family's adopted by lesbians living as an agnostic and now edging towards a form of paganism with gaia as my chief goddess. And Samhain is tommorow. I'm dressing as a conservative female professor and my 4' 8" friend's mother. He's going as a pilot he's 28. lol
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    Oct 31, 2007 5:00 AM GMT
    Born and raised as a southern baptist and when asked still identify myself as a baptist. Does my denomination accept me? No. But being a Christian doesn't mean that I am constrain by what people here think of me but my relationship with the Creator. I can do Bible battle with the best of them about what is literal and what is allegorical. I'm not going to go too deep here--it is a Real Jock forum after all--but, yeah, Christian, gay and doing okay.
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    Oct 31, 2007 5:08 AM GMT
    I was born and raised in a Roman Catholic/Episcopal family, and have been an active member of the Episcopal Church for many years.

    The problem with the Bible is one of license and interpretation. Many, if not most, people who have translated the sacred scriptures have done it with their own bias and agenda.

    I think you will find this site extremely interesting and useful... The Ontario Consultants on Religious Tolerance http://www.religioustolerance.org/

    I have very rarely found their site to be in factual error when it comes to scholarly discussion or interpretation. When they have been challenged, they have posted the rebuttles on their site (something almost no one else is willing to do), and their committee has responded carefully and with great forethought.

    They have quickly become one of the great unbiased resources on all major religions and on religious tolerance.

    Their discussion of homosexuality is fascinating and incredibly erudite.

    I highly recommend them as an excellent secondary source for religious information, and especially on differing interpretations of the Bible.

    Feel free to write me directly at any time if you wish to continue this discussion.

    Rob



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    Oct 31, 2007 12:49 PM GMT
    Ex-christian here. Well, not really ex-christian, but, I try hard to put those feelings out of my mind. I believe that my christianity can be prayed away.

    icon_redface.gif
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    Oct 31, 2007 1:34 PM GMT
    I'm sure if you look you will find a church that is accepting of you regardless of sexual orientation.
  • jarhead5536

    Posts: 1348

    Oct 31, 2007 2:33 PM GMT
    Fairly devout Christian here (Episcopalian). That's a tough admission to make in some gay circles, mostly because lots of other self-described "Christians" have made the term a dirty word. Sometimes it's easier to come out as gay amongst true Christians than it is to come out as Christian amongst gays.

    I follow the teachings of Jesus, not the admonitions and threats of the discarded (by Christ himself) Old Testament. As for whatever Paul might have said, he was a self-loathing closet case that hated women, so I take his letters with a grain of salt...
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    Oct 31, 2007 3:38 PM GMT
    I think of myself as a gay Christian rather than a Christian gay. God is not so concerned with our sexual orientation as he is with his credibility in our eyes. If we are a young Christian, we will always approach the interpretation of the scripture with our natural minds which are dominated by the knowledge of good and evil.

    The new covenant in Christ is not about "good and evil", right and wrong; it s about spiritual growth into truth that has its foundation in God's love. When the scripture is interpreted by the knowledge of good and evil, we always come up short (that is, we see ourselves as evil because we are not living up to our minds standard of "good").

    We must approach God with our hearts, not our minds. We must believe that Christ's work on the Cross at Calvary is a finished work; that we, along with all others who have turned to Christ and received his sacrifice for our lives, are washed clean and forgiven from all sin. We are acceptable to God and able to draw near to him; to have a personal relationship with him.

    If we believe that God is for us, we will begin to make ourselves available to him through prayer and bible reading. We will begin to sense his presence in our lives and experience a difference in our outlook in life. If it wasn't for the reality of God's presence in my own heart, I could never just follow a dry creed, ceremony or starchy, lifeless lists of religious doctrine (no more than I could get excited about watching a tree grow).

    When we try to understand God with our minds, we will be disappointed. Our mind is the playground of Satanic deception leaving us accused, condemned and guilt-laden; and disallusioned. It is the reason why I left organized religion and why I am involved in a non-denominational group. "Religion", for the most part, misses the wonderful inner-heart reality of the love of God, being deceived to follow their own versions of "good and evil" do's and don'ts. Unfortunately, this is what most people see as the standard of Christian reality. In fact, it falls far short of God's intention as evidenced by the state of the "religious" church today.

    Generally, it does not represent the heart of God toward man. Truth is not the result of learning religous facts or doctrine and then trying to imitate God's behavior in order to please God. Truth is about knowing who God is in our hearts through our fellowship with him as he reveals his love to us in our day-to-day journey. If we have not touched the heart of God, we are left with a religion that is stale and unfulfilling. This is why so many are discouraged and disappointed in their Christian experience. It is heartbreaking.

    I know that many on this site have a bad taste in their mouths about Christianity because of the hurt and pain caused them by "religious" Christians. I just want to say that these immature do-gooders do not represent true Christianity. Don't write God off because "religion" has failed you. Believe that God must be more than that and seek God himself. After all, he gave his own Son to die in our place to restore us to his heart. Don't let man's religious imaginations prevent you from seeking and finding the real thing.
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    Oct 31, 2007 4:29 PM GMT
    There are 2 important facts that in Christians forget about our own religion and what it says about homosexuality:

    1 - Jesus died to save us from our sins and as part of that the "old law" or Old Testament no longer apply to us.

    2 - There is not one single admonishment for "consensual" homosexuality in the New Testament. You need to re-read those New Testament bible verses dealing with homosexuality in the KJV and you will note that they all have to deal with homosexual orgies, heterosexuals engaging in homosexual acts, sexual acts with young boys (catamites), prostituting of men/boys, and homosexual acts in pagan temples, and men raping angels. Not one New Testament verse have I ever come across deals with a consensual homosexual relationship.

    All the Christians I talk to that say homosexuality is wrong can only point to Old Testament bible verses on the topic. The shut up very quickly when I remind them that they are just a guilty as I am if we were judged under that law for the shrimp they ate last week and the pig that they ate this morning. When I ask them to show me a similar verse in the NT, that stands up to an accurate translation, they can't.
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    Oct 31, 2007 4:41 PM GMT
    I was raised a Catholic and got rid of all that nonsense years ago. Thank GOD! icon_biggrin.gif
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    Nov 02, 2007 2:02 AM GMT
    thank you guys for the common. Great that most of you are doing good with no issue. True, if i find hard enough, there's a church for just about anything. I'm the bible believing type, and I wish there are more of us.
  • mv03

    Posts: 201

    Nov 02, 2007 5:04 AM GMT
    I consider myself Christian. As far as organized religion, I'm not to sure how much of it I believe. I feel it breeds more hate than the love it's supposed. Sounds rather hippy-ish I know, but that just my theory. As far as The Bible goes, The Bible is man's interpretation of God's word. I feel there are areas where it is misinterpreted, so that creates a problem. It can be good for guiding, but I believe in faith and prayer more. Just my opinion, but I come from a religious family.
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    Nov 02, 2007 5:39 AM GMT
    i'm an episcopalian now. Raised nazarene. I am Christian in name because i follow the teachings of the Christ, but orthodox christianity left me long ago.
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    Nov 06, 2007 6:14 AM GMT
    wow, so many fellow brothers in Christ. Great to meet you all.
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    Nov 06, 2007 9:30 PM GMT
    Agnostic 100%, my parents took me to church when I was young but I kept falling asleep. My partner is a practicing Catholic so that is one area of our relationship which we do not share. In terms of my behaviour though and how I treat people I am probably closer to being a Christian then most Christians I have met!
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    Nov 06, 2007 9:50 PM GMT
    I was raised Roman Catholic, by STRICT Mexican Granparents. As I got older I realized the many flaws in Catholocism. I have mentioned this to my Mom and family members and they were not so surprisingly understanding, that I did not want to be a Catholic anymore. So now, I consider myself a Christian, I pray, I believe Christ died on the cross for us, etc. but as far as going to church, I cannot find a protestant group that is for me. So I guess you can call me a VERY unorthodox Christian.

    As for the Bible Question, I think I am more "pick and choose." But when I say that, I don't mean verses I mean whole Books or stories.
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    Nov 09, 2007 11:50 PM GMT
    At the age of five, I said, "this is all such non-sense" and I haven't looked back.

    The brainwashing starts early, and studies have shown, time and again, that roughly 35% of all humans are "weak-minded". That is, they'll believe whatever you tell them, no matter how untrue, if you say it enough times consistently. It's a well known fact in the psychological community.

    While I do believe some things are not virtuous, organized religion is, beyond any doubt, a huge bane on society. It's beyond any doubt a poison to many a young mind.

    That being said, it's important that folks be taught critical thinking skills (I give my parents credit for that), and understand that mythology is just that, with no basis in fact.

    Of course, the Religious Right, Hitler, and even Bush, count on that weak-minded 35%. Tragic, but, true.
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    Nov 10, 2007 12:14 AM GMT
    yeah! And I didn't like carrots when I was five! Man, we were precocious! I mean, simply because we made a value judgment at a young age when our cognitive skills were nearly non-existent and we were in the rudiments of understanding morality means it MUST be a good value judgment.
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    Nov 10, 2007 12:19 AM GMT
    For me, I rejected most of it in the last decade or so. It's too hard to fathom that there are a few major religions in the world, each encompassing billions of people and each knowing the others are wrong and that any god of any of them would condem the followers of another religion to eternal damnation or some such crap. Almost nobody chooses their religion, most people get it from their parents. Most people don't bother to investigate other religions, they just know theirs is right because they were born with it. Like their noses. The world of humanity would not have made it this far without religion, but, hopefully, humanity will grow the fuck up and shrug it off. The time has come.
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    Nov 10, 2007 12:33 AM GMT
    I'm a Christian, gay sex addict. Bummer.
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    Nov 10, 2007 12:39 AM GMT
    Rest assured, I've re-affirmed my position a number of times since I was five. I am schooled in logic (computer science).
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    Nov 10, 2007 1:57 AM GMT
    Sure, I hate hate hate hate hate hate evangelical Christianity, fundamentalist islam, fascists buddhists (i'm sure they exist somewhere) and mormons. But I also don't like the assertion that religion poisons everything. I also don't think people realize how all encompassing Judaism was to begin with.

    There is no such thing as an atheist, just someone who doesn't understand empiricism.

    And I am trained in logic too. I'm a geneticist. But I see the beauty in the myths of all faiths. And I often think that the myths help us comprehend reality better than knowing how cytokines work.

    I do think people need to throw off the pat answers offered by headnodding sycophantic fascist faith-groups, but I also think we need to realize how those things are a part of us. And the stories themselves can contain great truths (lower-case "t").