Are you a Fag?

  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Apr 17, 2009 10:03 PM GMT
    We think we've gone so far

    We might think being gay is the New Black
    But think about it a minute
    When someone calls someone a "Fag" what does that mean?
    or a "Homo" or any of the derogatory terms that are used

    Take a look at this Op Ed in the Times today
    What it says is very true
    For young boys it is STILL the worst thing to be called a Fag and there have even been some suicides over the use of this word along with harrassment
    Are we ever going to get over this? Or is this something that will trail us forever?

    http://warner.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/16/who-are-you-calling-gay/?ref=opinion

    In March, 2007, 17-year-old Eric Mohat shot himself in the head, after a long-term tormentor told him in class, “Why don’t you go home and shoot yourself; no one will miss you.” Eric liked theater, played the piano and wore bright clothing, a lawyer for his family told ABC news, and so had long been subject to taunts of “gay,” “fag,” “queer” and “homo.”
  • NickoftheNort...

    Posts: 1416

    Apr 17, 2009 11:18 PM GMT
    I'll self-identify as fag when I've got the sassy attitude to bear it as a title, a kind of "That's Mister Fag to you, bitch." attitude.

    I remember fearing it as a word though and have residual pangs of that fear / hurt. Fear can be useful though when you rinse it with justified anger and shape it into a defiant spine. Courage, after all, is being able to take heart even in the midst of reasons to fear and tremble.

    ***
    As for gay youth, we could help them toward nurturing that anger, that defiance earlier, and show them that we are a defiant many (as opposed to a defiant few).

    (and that's quite enough of my late-night postulating)
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    Apr 17, 2009 11:59 PM GMT
    I am not sure how we can get over this... but it is something I wan to work on. We can try and tackle the issue of bullying in school and involvement with parents and kids but I think that is just treating a symptom not the problem. Maybe the problem is in our hands. When kids think of FAG or HOMO they think of what the media portrays... just ridiculous queens or fem jokes who have no ounce of masculinity. I compare them to the portrayals of black people in movies in the 40s and 50s. If there were some positive role models for gay youth and for the public we might take away the bite of the term.

    However just like the N word it still will have some power. The best way to deal w ith suicides is real involvement with better psychologist at school. So many times do you hear administrators and teachers say that they didn't even know there was a problem.... even when it happened in their classes!

    The parents involvement is something that I cant change though. So I'll try with those two.
  • gumbosolo

    Posts: 382

    Apr 18, 2009 12:16 AM GMT
    I work every summer with a bunch of middle and high school kids-- the kind who are weird in the first place and several of whom are probably or openly gay or bi. It's a huge problem for them, but I think having someone older to relate to is a big help. There's a huge gulf between these kids (preteens and early teenagers) and the people they idolize, who are in their twenties and busy at college or starting a career. That's an age, much more so than adults, that they'll open up to.

    One kid I'd worked with for a couple years called one of his friends a fag in front of me, and in the second it took me to call him out on it, I could already see he was furious with himself. It's a deeply entrenched habit that connects more to anger in the speaker than any definite quality in the target.

    As a side note, I think being barraged with this kind of language when I was younger was one reason it took me until college to come out. Because there was so much bad feeling about words like "fag" and "gay" that it never even crossed my mind they could be true.
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    Apr 18, 2009 12:21 AM GMT
    Fag doesn't bother me when used in jest or by friends, or even in self-reference. I think it's similar to n***er. We can use it amongst ourselves and with our friends, but "you" can't.
  • fitartistsf

    Posts: 638

    Apr 18, 2009 12:36 AM GMT
    I love the origin of words, where they came from, the history behind them, what they morphed into, the original language they are from. (like the word, "Sabotage". When the french peasants in the middle ages, wanted to send a message to their lord in his castle, that they were pissed off. They would go into the fields and stomp down the crops with their wooden shoes, their "Sabots", hence the word, "sabotage"...)
    But in my 47 years on this earth, I have never been able to find out how the word, Faggot", originally, a bundle of sticks used for firewood (kindling), and the british slang, "Fag" (a cigarette), or to be "Fagged out" (tired), got to mean a homosexual? One of life's mystery I guess I may never know......
  • Sk8Tex

    Posts: 738

    Apr 18, 2009 12:43 AM GMT
    I grew up in an area of south texas where fag was THE worst thing anyone could call you. Our only gay bar was shut down because drunk ''straight' guys would wait at night in the parking lot and assault people leaving the bar. Moving to California was the best thing that ever happened in my life...
  • Timbales

    Posts: 13993

    Apr 18, 2009 12:47 AM GMT
    I prefer fairy, it's more ethereal.
  • docbailey2005

    Posts: 362

    Apr 18, 2009 12:48 AM GMT
    Just like the N word gay men have to take the power out of it. As you all know we as black people call each other Nigga constantly being called that by white poeple really doesn't have the Same power it use to mainly because of this reason. Of course it's still offensive to some.
    Among gay men i hear them saying it all the time. So if some of you want to compare the two be sure and note that fact.
    Gay men have to move on with the F word as well.
    I also feel it's about a persons inner strength. Being confident and strong with who you are will also weaken the word. As the old saying goes, Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me.

    "i aint no fag i'll bust a cap in your ass!"
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    Apr 18, 2009 12:50 AM GMT
    I don't understand how we can change the use of these words. We are "Homos" and the people using it as a derogatory word must be taught better by their waste of life parents. When teachers or supervising adults scold their students/children about the use, they shouldn't say "stop picking on him," they should embarrass the user and explain that what they are saying isn't a bad word, but a word being used badly by a heathen!
  • barriehomeboy

    Posts: 2475

    Apr 18, 2009 12:58 AM GMT
    There's a rock radio station in the gay capitol of Canada (Toronto.) They are childish and moronic but they are actually more gay-friendly that anyone would expect them to be. They understand what it is to be a homosexual, and they're ok with it. (Kind of like Howard Stern, if he still had an audience, but sympathetic towards gays.) They use the word "gay" as a synonym for "stupid" and used it a lot until they brought in a weekly guest known as "gay Jeff." It took over a year, but they now have realized how using the words Gay and Jew in such an inappropriate way are similar. Kids, like these 30-something assholes, have different understandings of the words than people who are the subject of them. Who has coodies? When kids use the word faggot in the schoolyard, they're not understanding the concept of having oral or anal sex with a hard stiff slippery engorged......hang on...phew, ok concentrate, penis. It's just like having coodies. Kids are kids, not miniature adults. The left and right sides of their brains don't even begin to communicate reliably until they are 25 years old if they are men. You're expecting way too much of our straight brothers.
  • jgymnast733

    Posts: 1783

    Apr 18, 2009 1:06 AM GMT
    Seeing the guys wearing there pants hanging off there butts derived from the jail/prison culture and actually means that your available.. [ to other men of course],, If these kids knew that i'd wonder how many would still wear there gear in that fashion..
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    Apr 18, 2009 1:08 AM GMT
    ummmm, get over it.
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    Apr 18, 2009 1:16 AM GMT
    Timberoo saidI prefer fairy, it's more ethereal.
    LOL, ok you made me spit up my coffee....jeeeze.
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    Apr 18, 2009 1:25 AM GMT
    faggot (1)
    1279, "bundle of twigs bound up," from O.Fr. fagot "bundle of sticks," from It. faggotto, dim. of V.L. *facus, from L. fascis "bundle of wood" (see fasces). Esp. used for burning heretics (a sense attested from 1555), so that phrase fire and faggot was used to mean "punishment of a heretic." Heretics who recanted were required to wear an embroidered figure of a faggot on their sleeve, as an emblem and reminder of what they deserved.

    faggot (2)
    "male homosexual," 1914, Amer.Eng. slang (shortened form fag is from 1921), probably from earlier contemptuous term for "woman" (1591), especially an old and unpleasant one, in reference to faggot (1) "bundle of sticks," as something awkward that has to be carried (cf. baggage). It was used in this sense in 20c. by D.H. Lawrence and James Joyce, among others. It may also be reinforced by Yiddish faygele "homosexual," lit. "little bird." It also may have roots in Brit. public school slang fag "a junior who does certain duties for a senior" (1785), with suggestions of "catamite," from fag (v.). This was also used as a verb.

    Other obsolete senses of faggot were "man hired into military service simply to fill out the ranks at muster" (1700) and "vote manufactured for party purposes" (1817). The oft-heard statement that male homosexuals were called faggots in reference to their being burned at the stake is an etymological urban legend. Burning was sometimes a punishment meted out to homosexuals in Christian Europe (on the suggestion of the Biblical fate of Sodom and Gomorah), but in England, where parliament had made homosexuality a capital offense in 1533, hanging was the method prescribed. Any use of faggot in connection with public executions had long become an English historical obscurity by the time the word began to be used for "male homosexual" in 20th century American slang, whereas the contemptuous slang word for "woman" (and the other possible sources or influences listed here) was in active use.
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    Apr 18, 2009 1:29 AM GMT
    barriehomeboy saidThere's a rock radio station in the gay capitol of Canada (Toronto.) They are childish and moronic but they are actually more gay-friendly that anyone would expect them to be. They understand what it is to be a homosexual, and they're ok with it. (Kind of like Howard Stern, if he still had an audience, but sympathetic towards gays.) They use the word "gay" as a synonym for "stupid" and used it a lot until they brought in a weekly guest known as "gay Jeff." It took over a year, but they now have realized how using the words Gay and Jew in such an inappropriate way are similar. Kids, like these 30-something assholes, have different understandings of the words than people who are the subject of them. Who has coodies? When kids use the word faggot in the schoolyard, they're not understanding the concept of having oral or anal sex with a hard stiff slippery engorged......hang on...phew, ok concentrate, penis. It's just like having coodies. Kids are kids, not miniature adults. The left and right sides of their brains don't even begin to communicate reliably until they are 25 years old if they are men. You're expecting way too much of our straight brothers.


    Um, I don't think we're expecting to much from anyone. If a kid sticks his middle finger up in class, the teacher smacks him or gives him a punishment. Regardless of the fact the kid doesn't know that means "fuck you". If a child says nigger and has no idea what it means, adults will tell the kid not to say it and that is is a bad word.

    FAGGOT should be given the same response.
  • barriehomeboy

    Posts: 2475

    Apr 18, 2009 1:31 AM GMT
    Not sure what your point was.
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    Apr 18, 2009 1:32 AM GMT
    A Fag. I'll put my hand up with pride, gosh I've used that word twice today. Almost the most I've used it in my whole life.

    You know I well remember being young, it was the topic of homosexuality that had an effect on me, didn't matter what word was used, it was the topic of homosexuality. So I'm not going to buy that because some-one was called a fag made them do themselves in, it's the issue of being a homosexual, and not dealing with it.

    Also as an Aussie. I do feel I'm the black fella of today in Oz. because there was a time when white man in Oz had more rights than a black fella.

    Now newcomers to Oz have more rights here than I do.

    Did you know gays in my state not even born here have more rights than I, a White Indigiouness Aussie.


    Yes I put my hand up for being a fag. But under my definition, not all homosexuals can stand under the banner of fag, they have the banner of gay, or bi.
  • barriehomeboy

    Posts: 2475

    Apr 18, 2009 1:32 AM GMT
    ok this whole quoting thing has to go
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    Apr 18, 2009 1:52 AM GMT
    Thanks juishe!
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    Apr 18, 2009 3:42 AM GMT
    OMG I hate that word! It takes me back to a childhhood I rather forget. If I wasn't the social evangelist I was I would have probably be in bad shape right now. Luckly I knew the key to surviving in the straight world in the deep south. "Pretty Girls" I was so at ease with them growing up. Being the right hand man of a babe had and has it's advantages.Now days the word doesn't have as much power since I live in San francisco. There are even parties called Fag Fridays. I can see how such a word stings thou. Recently this same word has cause a 6th grader to hang himself. Words are powerful tools of mind control.
  • fitartistsf

    Posts: 638

    Apr 18, 2009 3:49 AM GMT
    Thanks, Juishe, learn something new everyday.
    WOW!!! Smart, AND beautiful, damn, a lethal combination.... I owe you one, cutie... LOL
  • Little_Spoon

    Posts: 1562

    Apr 18, 2009 3:51 AM GMT
    No.

    icon_smile.gif
  • Bunjamon

    Posts: 3161

    Apr 18, 2009 4:03 AM GMT
    Fantastic article. My parents did a good job of not enforcing gender stereotypes for my sister and me, allowing us to do what we wanted. My sister would paint my nails and then we'd go roll around in the creek, catching crayfish and frogs. Parents just need to love their kids, and they're turn out alright. I feel like if those kids who killed themselves knew that people REALLY WOULD miss them after they were gone, and if they had a really strong support network at home, those tragedies wouldn't have happened. I know that my relationship with my parents saved my life when I was going through a tough time in middle school.
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    Apr 18, 2009 4:12 AM GMT
    I usually give people one chance when I tell them I'll kick them in the face. They usually laugh and say I'd have to knock them down first. I reply with don't be so sure.

    I do have an awesome high kick and haven't kicked anyone in the face yet.