My thoughts on Organized Religion

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    Nov 01, 2007 6:53 PM GMT
    What are your thoughts on organized religion? Personally, I feel it has created a lot of division and hate. It creates feelings of supremacy and ideology of "my way or the highway to hell" That being said I am a big advocate of spirituality if you want to incorporate that into your life. If everyone takes whatever they want from any source they find inspirational and moving they effectively create their own religions and doctrines to make their life unique and more meaningful.
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    Nov 01, 2007 7:36 PM GMT
    I won't doubt that being active in a religion through social groups or prayer can positivly influence your health.

    Personally I know religion is just a story, but I still hold respect for those who choose the harder path in the gay world.

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    Nov 01, 2007 7:38 PM GMT
    Opiate of the masses.
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    Nov 01, 2007 8:06 PM GMT
    I agree McGay. Do you think though that even in the face of all the harm that religion has done, perhaps some lives have improved or people were able to help others either through their fear of god's wrath or for pure love for humanity?
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    Nov 01, 2007 8:18 PM GMT
    Absolutely. If not for religion, we'd be cannibals, I believe, because most people cannot behave themselves if not for fear of something they can't see.
  • liftordie

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    Nov 01, 2007 8:29 PM GMT
    i hear the words 'organized religion' and i want to run screaming into the night. as a recovering catholic who's uncle and former brother in law were both ordained ministers, i have seen and heard enough. organized religion preaches and promotes hate and segregation. we are good cuz we are us, and u are bad cuz u are u. u are going to burn in hell because u dont believe in the EXACT same things as we do. icon_twisted.gif most of the wars in the world throughout history have been fought and waged over simple religious differences. is that really what God had in mind??? just my thoughts.
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    Nov 01, 2007 8:39 PM GMT
    Same reaction to those words as liftordie. I finally came out last year and left being a Jehovah's Witness.

    I am still working through the guilt and issues that were pounded in my head. And not to mention that my family and best friends are no longer allowed to associate or even speak with me.

    And even simple changes in the same belief and people go crazy. Look at Protestants and Catholics, Sunni and Shi'ites. Believe in the same gods, but just a few things are changed and they will fight pretty much forever.

    I run from organized religon, yet still trying to find out what my spirituality is now...
  • liftordie

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    Nov 01, 2007 8:47 PM GMT
    to n8 religion and spirituality are two different things. as long as u believe in something, that is what counts. take a little from buddhism, a little from catholicism, etc. as long as your eyes are open you should be able to find the relevant things for you. at least that is how i look at it!!
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    Nov 01, 2007 9:59 PM GMT
    Brainwashing.
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    Nov 01, 2007 11:20 PM GMT
    Have to agree with the brain washing. Looking at some of the material I used to read, it is almost exactly like war propaganda.

    And liftordie separating the two is easier said than done. I actually just finished a class on Comparative religon. And studied them all. I did appreciate buddhism the most, so might look into that some more.

    But when you come from a background where you are told, "you do this and this and this, otherwise you die" It does make it difficult to look at god or the world in a different way.

    Lately, I just completely push it out of my head all together and just worry about work, school and fitness.

    Guess, I will do what most people do, find god when something bad happens or I get sick and am ready to die.
  • cowboyupnorth

    Posts: 264

    Nov 03, 2007 7:54 PM GMT
    Most religions are founded in good principals. I think because we are human we twist them and distort the teachings to our benefit. I am sure with you being a PETA supporter if religion supported your views you would be cramming it down our throats.

    There is a good book called “Had I been born a different faith” I think, anyway it shows you what your upbringing would be if you had been born and raised in a different culture with different religious beliefs. As my knowledge increased so do my respect for various religions.

    I am a Full Gospel Christian. I chose this religion after much study and despite my churches lack of understanding about homosexuality. Because I refuse to run our church has grown in its understanding, acceptance and love of me. I know the church has abused people and oppressed people and we need to address that. We are all growing and that includes the church.
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    Jan 12, 2008 12:22 AM GMT
    I'd definitely recommend all of you to read "The GOD Delusion" by Richard Dalkins. It's a fantastic read!!!

    The God Delusion is a book by British biologist Richard Dawkins, holder of the Charles Simonyi Chair for the Public Understanding of Science at the University of Oxford. In The God Delusion, Dawkins contends that a supernatural creator almost certainly does not exist and that belief in a god qualifies as a delusion, which he defines as a persistent false belief held in the face of strong contradictory evidence.

    Has anyone read this book? if so, any thoughts on it? I'm Irish and an atheist. Some of my friends are atheists as well, and some friends would consider themselves agnostic .
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    Jan 12, 2008 12:26 AM GMT
    Yes, I have read it. Richard Dawkins is great. There were two shows on British television called The Root of All Evil and The End of Reason that were absolutely excellent. My point of view is in line with that of Richard Dawkins.
  • MikePhilPerez

    Posts: 4357

    Jan 12, 2008 12:41 AM GMT
    chuckystud saidBrainwashing.


    It's only brainwashing, if you let it. I'm Catholic, and I go to church, but I can separate the good from the crap. I use the brain that God gave me. I believe in God, and no one forced me to. No one forces me to go to church. I go because I want to. I don't think of myself as being better or worse than those that don't go.

    Mike
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    Jan 12, 2008 12:42 AM GMT
    I have read his latest book, The God Delusion, and I have also watched the two shows that you mention. I would also recommend reading his previous work, The Selfish Gene, The Blind Watchmaker etc which build in even more detail his Darwinian argument.

    Personally, I was indifferent to religion at first, then I became an atheist and through R. Dawkins' work I realized the need for an ideological "fight" against religion. And here, I mean fight in a progressive and modernizing kind of sense, not in a fundamentalist way.
  • MikePhilPerez

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    Jan 12, 2008 12:52 AM GMT
    amuigh saidI'd definitely recommend all of you to read "The GOD Delusion" by Richard Dalkins. It's a fantastic read!!!

    The God Delusion is a book by British biologist Richard Dawkins, holder of the Charles Simonyi Chair for the Public Understanding of Science at the University of Oxford. In The God Delusion, Dawkins contends that a supernatural creator almost certainly does not exist and that belief in a god qualifies as a delusion, which he defines as a persistent false belief held in the face of strong contradictory evidence.

    Has anyone read this book? if so, any thoughts on it? I'm Irish and an atheist. Some of my friends are atheists as well, and some friends would consider themselves agnostic .


    What's the evidence?

    I recall an interview on the "Late Late Show" with some guy who claimed that God does not exist, and had some sort of evidence. After the interview I still didn't know what evidence he had, other than his claim that no one had evidence, that he does exist.

    Mike
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    Jan 12, 2008 12:58 AM GMT
    Well, the argument that R.Dawkins makes is that, the burden of proof does not fall on those that claim non-existence but on those that claim existence of God.

    For example, if I claim that flying unicorns exist, or that the fairy godmother actually does pick up the teeth from children at night, then the challenge for me is to actually prove that this is the case, and not for the rest of the world to show that it is not.
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    Jan 12, 2008 1:08 AM GMT
    Religion in and of itself isn't the problem, in my experience. Rather, its some of the practitioners of said religion and the way they interpret and twist the doctrine of that religion to fit/justify their own personal agendas/opinions.

    My dad was a Southern Baptist preacher and I was raised with that doctrine, but I left that religion when I was 16 as it wasn't the path for me. If you do your research on Christianity (for example) and its history, including the political aspects of it through the centuries as both secular and sacred (ie the papacy) politics manipulated it historically, the current version isn't entirely true to the original. It was originally intended to be based on love, tolerance and acceptance and was even environmental in that its followers are admonished to be "stewards of the Earth". There are still people that understand and follow the original intent of that religion, but far more that don't, and that is the problem with that religion. And then there's the history of the other religions...

    I chose to experience and research many beliefs (Tao, Buddhism, Wicca, and many others) and eventually chose to follow the spiritual path of my Native American ancestors by learning the different traditional beliefs of many Native Nations and pulling from those the things that felt right to me. Spiritual and religious beliefs are a personal matter and should never be forced on anyone.
  • MikePhilPerez

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    Jan 12, 2008 1:10 AM GMT
    Just as I thought, no evidence. And you need to read a book to find that out?

    I have evidence that there is a God, but I know those, that do not believe, would not accept it as evidence. In fact it is plain to see for anyone, that is prepared to open there eyes wide enough to see it.

    Sorry, I know I sound like a preacher icon_smile.gif

    Mike
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    Jan 12, 2008 1:12 AM GMT
    you totally do, that's exactly why i dont believe you lol icon_twisted.gificon_rolleyes.gificon_twisted.gif
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    Jan 12, 2008 1:12 AM GMT
    Give me a B!
    Give me a U!
    Give me a N!
    Give me a K!

    What's that spell BUNK! BUNK! BUNK!
    Yay!
  • MikePhilPerez

    Posts: 4357

    Jan 12, 2008 1:14 AM GMT
    NativeDude saidReligion in and of itself isn't the problem, in my experience. Rather, its some of the practitioners of said religion and the way they interpret and twist the doctrine of that religion to fit/justify their own personal agendas/opinions.

    My dad was a Southern Baptist preacher and I was raised with that doctrine, but I left that religion when I was 16 as it wasn't the path for me. If you do your research on Christianity (for example) and its history, including the political aspects of it through the centuries as both secular and sacred (ie the papacy) politics manipulated it historically, the current version isn't entirely true to the original. It was originally intended to be based on love, tolerance and acceptance and was even environmental in that its followers are admonished to be "stewards of the Earth". There are still people that understand and follow the original intent of that religion, but far more that don't, and that is the problem with that religion. And then there's the history of the other religions...

    I chose to experience and research many beliefs (Tao, Buddhism, Wicca, and many others) and eventually chose to follow the spiritual path of my Native American ancestors by learning the different traditional beliefs of many Native Nations and pulling from those the things that felt right to me. Spiritual and religious beliefs are a personal matter and should never be forced on anyone.


    NativeDude, I agree with you 100%. Well put.

    Mike

  • MikePhilPerez

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    Jan 12, 2008 1:16 AM GMT
    oenusa saidyou totally do, that's exactly why i dont believe you lol icon_twisted.gificon_rolleyes.gificon_twisted.gif


    Hey, be nice. I'm not trying to convert you.
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    Jan 12, 2008 1:17 AM GMT
    i know, i was just teasing icon_redface.gif
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    Jan 12, 2008 1:18 AM GMT
    icon_rolleyes.gif Richard D is a great writer but It's funny how people react to his book.

    It's like he discovered an amazing truth. OMG god doesn't exist according to Dawkins unless there is proof!!

    In a way it's kinda funny. I don't believe in god because the world doesn't require one to be the way it is. I don't just use word games to prove my point icon_confused.gif