Atheism: Similarities with the Gay Movement?

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    Apr 20, 2009 7:38 AM GMT
    Alright...so I did a search (to placate those that always seem to want to let others know that the topic has been beat to death by linking to a similar topic in the forum) on the topic of Atheism and nothing came up, so here it goes:

    I am an atheist, proud to be one and not ashamed of it. I was just wondering, how many of you are atheists or have similar views? Do you see a similarity with what's happenening with the gay movement and view others have of atheists? Apparently, some do, especially the religious right. Notice how in this below video, Mr. Peterson tries to tie the gay rights movement and atheism together because both are trying to "impose" their lifestyles on America.
    My most favorite part is when Mr. Peterson states, that "atheists are hypocrits"; yes, atheists are the hypocrits.....and not the millions and millions of the religious who live their lives as, "Do as I say, not as I do". He also says of atheists, "if they want to be atheist, go ahead and do that...but just don't go and try to change America. But isn't that what the religious right is trying to do?
    Views from others??


    [url][/url]
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    Apr 20, 2009 11:53 AM GMT
    Another atheist here. I've seen polls that show atheists being the least trusted, having the worst chance at becoming president of the US (homosexuals have a better chance), and being labeled as one of the most hateful groups of people. Why are we hateful? How does 'not believing in a supernatural deity' translate to 'hate'?

    I do think that atheists are trying to change America. And for the better. America is a christian nation, indicated daily by the money in our wallets, and the revised Pledge of Allegiance. But we're also supposed to have separation of church and state. That sounds nice and all, but we push it aside every day, and let religion take a stronger hold. I'm proud that atheists are trying to change America, just as I'm proud that gays are trying to change America. Right now, our country is extremely hateful and intolerant. Until it becomes otherwise, this country NEEDS a serious change.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Apr 20, 2009 12:19 PM GMT
    Organized religion .... worldwide has basically declared war on gay men
    They use us to propagandize and lie
    which is one of the reasons that I am an Atheist
    But I don't see that everyone should follow that principle
    Yet I cannot understand how any gay man can be part of a Church that states he is a sinner and will be excluded from an afterlife
    I think you can still believe in a higher power
    Just one that ain't quite such a homophobe
  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    Apr 20, 2009 12:55 PM GMT
    I agree with everything you said, because I'm an atheist, too ! LOL. But, it's true. Some people think that because I'm an atheist, that I "practice" atheism. Well, no, it's not a religion. It's the absence of a religion.

    And, there's nothing hypocritical about it. In most cases, I have to see it to believe it. Add to that, all the hatred and evil that is done in the name of religion, and I want no part of it. If I can do my best to follow the "golden rule," I should get along pretty well.

    When I'm dead, that's it. But, that's the one thing that I find frustrating about being an atheist. The SOB's that deserve to be punished in the hereafter, never will get it, because there is no hereafter.
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    Apr 20, 2009 1:12 PM GMT
    I'm atheist, and I simply do not care about other people's beliefs unless it starts impinging on my rights, starts drifting to the lower border of epic stupidity, or starts harming other people... which happens a lot more than I'd like.

    Just today I ran across this comment while looking for subtitles for the documentary "A Jihad For Love":

    The Muslims as well as Christians teach that being gay is a sin deserving death unless one repents,,,These fags are making all religions look bad,,

    icon_rolleyes.gif Sheesh. I couldn't resist replying. Where the hell do they breed people this stupid?!
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    Apr 20, 2009 1:35 PM GMT
    GQjock saidOrganized religion .... worldwide has basically declared war on gay men

    Yet I cannot understand how any gay man can be part of a Church that states he is a sinner and will be excluded from an afterlife
    I think you can still believe in a higher power
    Just one that ain't quite such a homophobe


    Uh huh. This is absolutely true, of course there are more "liberal" christians, but the traditional, original form is unequivocally anti gay.


    Also that pastor on the clip was seriously obnoxious.
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    Apr 20, 2009 1:48 PM GMT

    Well we're not atheists but here: Extreme religious people can be like burros tied to stakes. When they get going in circles the lead gets shorter and shorter and the circles they're traveling in smaller and smaller til they're trapped, neck to the stake. Who will untie or unwind them until they can roam about and see what they believe (the stake) from a comfortable distance where they can see the bigger picture and consider whether they want a tether or be able to choose to stay near the stake freely rather being leashed?


    answer: .stsiehtA

    Hmm, OK maybe this is a lousy analogy, but atheism is as important as any religion of any kind.
    Just like the religiously extreme, though, it's both our observations that atheism has some adherents that are hard to tell from the religious extremists, in that some display the same zeal in attacking others that don't share the belief that there's nothing 'out there'.

    The US government is supposed to secular - separation of church and state. The religious right have influenced it for too long. We think they fear losing the strangle-hold they have on public sentiment. Public sentiment, though, can change and appears to be doing just that. Americans, like most others, appear to dislike being tied to a stake.


    respectfully, (and happy to have had a Grandpa that was atheist)

    -Doug of meninlove
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    Apr 20, 2009 2:05 PM GMT
    I am an atheist. I am perfectly comfortable with that. However, I recognize that other people are comfortable with their religious beliefs. Getting large numbers of the religious to go from Leviticus quoting hate mongers to socially liberal, Christ-like Christians doesn't come from going "nener nener nener, there is not god, you are stupid". It comes from dialogue.

    But, in regard to anti-gay sentiment being intrinsic with Christianity, I am convinced that is false and is irrelevant. The anti-gay reading of the bible wasn't widely recognized until well into the medieval era. Even if it was, people wear cloth spun of different fibers, eat shellfish, and have oral sex without being stoned to death. Religion is a dynamic thing, hence the need for dialogue.
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    Apr 20, 2009 2:17 PM GMT
    MunchingZombie said, "I am an atheist. I am perfectly comfortable with that. However, I recognize that other people are comfortable with their religious beliefs. Getting large numbers of the religious to go from Leviticus quoting hate mongers to socially liberal, Christ-like Christians doesn't come from going "nener nener nener, there is not god, you are stupid". It comes from dialogue."


    ....now THAT'S-a one-a classy Atheist!


    -Doug
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    Apr 20, 2009 2:35 PM GMT
    I love it when people say that gays are "imposing their lifestyle" on the rest of society. Most gay men I know live so-called lifestyles very similar to their straight peers. And the single gay men in their early 20s live very similar lifestyles to their straight counterparts. But it is very easy demonize a group of people in today's media staturated society.

    People like Mr. Peterson are counting on their audience reacting emotionally and not rationally. Sadly, their faith is not misplaced, thus the difficulty in achieving equality for gays in the "Land of The Free and Home of The Brave".

    And no I personally do not correlate atheism or religious belief with any particular lifestyle.

    No one knows for sure why some people are attracted to religion and others are not. I am sure we will eventually discover it is like every other aspect of human behaviour, a combination of genetics and life experiences.

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    Apr 20, 2009 2:49 PM GMT
    Munchy...

    wow, I´m actually gonna post something on religion: this may be the only time ever icon_rolleyes.gif

    "in regard to anti-gay sentiment being intrinsic with Christianity, I am convinced that is false and is irrelevant. The anti-gay reading of the bible wasn't widely recognized until well into the medieval era. Even if it was, people wear cloth spun of different fibers, eat shellfish, and have oral sex without being stoned to death."


    About the same time as Nicean Christianity became the official form of Christianity in the Roman Empire, there was an edict promulgated by Theodosius I which established the death penalty for the passive partner. He was a Christian emperor and was moving against the pre-christian practices of the roman empire. Ever since the influence of Christianity has worked against same sex partnerships, just as the earliest christian writers stood out against the prevalent practices in Greco-roman culture. The anti gay reading of the bible is the original reading.

    The lobster argument is very finely layered and I have to go off to a staff meeting.... oh well.

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    Apr 20, 2009 3:23 PM GMT
    Funny...the first thing I was thinking was that this almost sounds like an AA meeting: "Hi, I'm Michael, and I'm an Atheist". LOL


    It's great to hear some really good responses. I was actually a little apprehensive with this posting. I mean, people get offensive, combative, and threatened with regular different religious view topics on here already, let alone talking about people who don't believe....period.
    I'm one of the few that I know of that is definitely Atheist. Alot of my friends, when confronted with the question, seem to skirt around it by saying, "Oh, I'm Agnostic". One of my thoughts as to why they say that instead of saying they are Atheists, is that because ever since the founding of America, and especially lately with all the extremeism, they are nervous or afraid to actually say they are Atheist out of fear that people will view them differently (essensially how gays feel); to them I think, they feel that if they say they at least "believe: in some higher being (ie. a God), then people will think, "Oh, well (s)he does at least believe that there is some thing or a creator of some sort rather than absolutely nothing".
    I personally love listening to Richard Dawkins (and was reading his book before I came to the Middle East; unfortunately, bringing that book here would have meant risking jail time) speak and I wish I was able present my arguments with others in the way in which he was able to argue. I guess in a way, it's my ignorance in my own path to learn more about what I believe, but at the same time, I know how and what I believe, and having confrontation with someone who is devoutly religious, it basically useless. They're going to believe what they want to, just as well as I should believe how I want to believe and not be forced to practically feel guilty or ashamed for believing such.
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    Apr 20, 2009 3:46 PM GMT
    Sound, like a bunch of schoolboys, trying to thumb your noses at the principle while being self congratulatory to me.

    So you are atheists - so what? Just as devoid of rational thought.


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    Apr 20, 2009 3:51 PM GMT
    Hey Michael_Mccarry! small c christian here....
    Without Atheists, the gay marriage issue would much more difficult. Without you, marriage would be a strictly religious procedure. Thousands upon thousands of thousands of Atheist straight marriages make the extreme religious right's argument about marriage being 'sacred' specious at best.

    As for belief or not, when we die, and if there IS God and afterlife, then being a rational, reasoning and intelligent Atheist, you'll say, "Well, whaddaya know!" A grin and wink from God along with, "Fooled ya! Now let's go explore some of those nebulae.."

    If there is NO God and afterlife (by the way I believe that even without God there may still be an afterlife; why not?), then those of us that believe in one won't know (no afterlife no consciousness), or in an afterlife with no God will slap ourselves on our metaphysical foreheads, metaphysically blush and go, "Doh!" heheh

    -Doug

    PS you can tell the atheist influence of my wonderful Grandpa in my writing, eh?
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    Apr 20, 2009 3:52 PM GMT
    jprichva said
    Michael_Mccarry said I personally love listening to Richard Dawkins (and was reading his book before I came to the Middle East; unfortunately, bringing that book here would have meant risking jail time.

    Two questions, Michael:

    1) Is Dawkins' book banned in Dubai?
    2) You actually left Martha's Vineyard for Dubai? Srsly??


    Any book that goes against religion....especially the Muslim faith...is banned. Of course, being gay here is illegal, but trust me there's a HUGE communty, locals and expats alike.

    And yes, seriously, I am in Dubai and have been since November. The Vineyard is a great place to visit for holiday, or spend time to gather yourself for a few years, but Winter's on that Island are really tough and the community VERY small. Living in Dubai for a period, is no different, besides some of the restrictions, but I'm not one of those gays that feels he needs to be a "bird of a feather" and be immersed around or with gays all the time. There is a large populations of gays here anyway; they're just forced into the "underground" partying/gatherings....of which, I'm really not interested in getting involved with. Not to mention, I would have been insane to not come here when I had an opportunity to do so. I'd rather be here doing something totally different than die regreting that I didn't take the chance or restrict myself from traveling around the World.
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    Apr 20, 2009 4:02 PM GMT
    I have tried to be an atheist, but I just can't. Right now, as I take a break from studying my anatomy books, I just can't logically think that something so complex and intricate as the human body could not have a designer behind it. Then there is our planet as a whole. It's just too fantastical to believe that it all just sort of "happened" without someone or something a lot more intelligent than we are designing or creating it. For that reason alone, I could never be an atheist.

    However, like I said, I've TRIED to be an atheist because I find the majority of religions that try to explain God as nonsensical(or more so) than the belief that there isn't a God.

    I think just because someone believes that there's something or someone more intelligent than we are that designed everything doesn't mean they have to adhere to a certain religion or even call that designer a certain name.

    By the way, even though I'm not an atheist, I would never discriminate against them. A lot of my best friends are atheists and I would much rather vote for an atheist as president than a religious nut.
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    Apr 20, 2009 4:08 PM GMT
    muscles4muscles saidI have tried to be an atheist, but I just can't. Right now, as I take a break from studying my anatomy books, I just can't logically think that something so complex and intricate as the human body could not have a designer behind it. Then there is our planet as a whole. It's just too fantastical to believe that it all just sort of "happened" without someone or something a lot more intelligent than we are designing or creating it. For that reason alone, I could never be an atheist.

    However, like I said, I've TRIED to be an atheist because I find the majority of religions that try to explain God as nonsensical(or more so) than the belief that there isn't a God.

    I think just because someone believes that there's something or someone more intelligent than we are that designed everything doesn't mean they have to adhere to a certain religion or even call that designer a certain name.

    By the way, even though I'm not an atheist, I would never discriminate against them. A lot of my best friends are atheists and I would much rather vote for an atheist as president than a religious nut.


    I feel where you are coming from. Atheism as a philosphy is quite illogical
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    Apr 20, 2009 4:16 PM GMT
    Meninlove-
    Marriage to me, should be a completely religious act; I'm not against that at all. My issue is that when it comes to the law, when "marriage" as a term is applied, rather than saying it was a "civil union" (unfortunately, "civil union" is getting demonized just like the term "socialized") between two consenting adults, regarless of their sexuality. I don't want "marriage" to define my eventual legal bond with with all the legal rights thereof with the one I love. If I settled for using the term "marriage", that would basically forcing me into something I am totally in disagreement with anyway.

    My view after I die, is that our energy is transformed to somewhere else in the universe (Conservation of Energy Law...energy is neither created nor destroyed). So, if you want to view that as an afterlife, then that's what I believe...and I'm completely comfortable with that. I doesn't bother me one bit that there is no afterlife and it doesn't affect how I live my life. I have never ben in jail, nor committed any crimes. I don't need the threat of going to some so-called place called "hell" (another thing I don't believe in) to make me be a good person.

    This is a good video by Dawkins, called "Root of All Evil":


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    Apr 20, 2009 5:03 PM GMT
    I am an atheist, but I find Richard Dawkins obnoxious.

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    Apr 20, 2009 5:20 PM GMT
    MadeNUSA said...I feel where you are coming from. Atheism as a philosphy is quite illogical.
    Although I do agree it's possible to be an irrational or illogical atheist, I'd love to hear you attempt to demonstrate the logical fallacies of atheism.

    Here's a practice story problem, to get you warmed up: suppose most people believe that the only way to travel from Framingham to Boston is by teleportation. A small group believes that other modes of transportation are possible, including walking, automobile or light rail. Demonstrate, in logic, how the small group is wrong.
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    Apr 20, 2009 5:26 PM GMT
    feminism, similarity with gay movement . i think they both are more alike.
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    Apr 20, 2009 5:27 PM GMT
    Anyone else get annoyed when people muddle atheism and evolution/origin of species stuff?

    And yes, Michael. I see some similarities. Mostly because they both have to address the chuch-and-state divide.
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    Apr 20, 2009 5:30 PM GMT
    I am an atheist also.
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    Apr 20, 2009 5:32 PM GMT
    Michael_Mccarry saidAlright...so I did a search (to placate those that always seem to want to let others know that the topic has been beat to death by linking to a similar topic in the forum) on the topic of Atheism and nothing came up, so here it goes:



    I hate to burst your bubble on this one, but the search feature on here doesn't work very well. Swimbikerun and a couple others have started probably dozens of atheism v.s. religion threads over the last year. This isn't new territory, just the beginning of yet another flame war on the subject. Maybe those on both sides of the argument can just go ahead and pat yourselves on the back in a sense of smug self-congratulatory superiority and cut this one short.icon_wink.gif
    EDIT

    This is just the tip of the iceberg.
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/174761/
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/137883/
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/15183/
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/263798/
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/181877/
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/49606/
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/156607/
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/437358/
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/4219/
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/16162/
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/49083/
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/49606/
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/96465/
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/108204/
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/131687/
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/199571/


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    Apr 20, 2009 5:40 PM GMT
    RJ flame war starters:

    - Religion;
    - Politics;
    - The Middle East;
    - Str8-acting;
    - Pride Parades;
    - g0ys;
    - HIV+ men;

    If you feel the need to start a new forum topic about any of the above, chances are you covering very old ground that has resulted in many RJ members heaping abuse on each other.

    Mind you some people enjoy giving and taking abuse. They are called sadists and masochists. If you are one of those be my guest. I would hate to be accused of cramping anyone's "style". icon_cool.gif