Vegan Fun-Facts

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    Nov 04, 2007 1:51 AM GMT
    I've seen a lot of concern about animals in recent threads, and I think it's touching, I really do. A lot of people go beyond being "just vegetarian" to being vegan, all because they hate to see the cute little animals hurt.

    But consider this.

    Refined sugar is processed with animal bone char. The charcoal is used to remove color, impurities, and minerals from sugar. The charcoal is not 'in' the sugar, but is used in the process as a filter. Therefore, by consuming refined sugar you are helping to hurt the animals.

    Steel and vulcanized rubber are produced using animal fats. So you better make sure you don't have any steel or rubber appliances in your house, or you are helping to hurt the animals.

    Oh, and you better make sure that the food that you buy is not transported to the store in a steel truck with rubber wheels.... or you are helping to hurt the animals.

    In many areas, groundwater and surface water is filtered through bone charcoal filters. So you better not use city plumbing in your house, or you are helping to hurt the animals.

    If you are one of those vegans who shuns honey and silk, because of the poor insects that may be harmed in the production thereof, then you also must avoid all vegetables: because insects are slaughtered by the hundreds of thousands during the harvesting and transportation of all vegetables. So by eating vegetables, you are helping to hurt the animals.
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    Nov 04, 2007 2:48 AM GMT
    greg you seem like an angry person, I do wish you find peace.

    veganism is not about deciphering every ingredient, and avoiding everything. We try our best to reduce animal suffering. every vegan accidently eats something with an igredient we were unaware of now and then. the roads are made with bone, we still are going to drive them.

    but thanks for being so concerned on behalf of us.
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    Nov 04, 2007 2:59 AM GMT
    greg you seem like an angry person, I do wish you find peace.

    ?!? Not sure how you get to that from the above post hippie.

    But I think the question is a valid one, and ont that really only atxclimber addressed on one of the related threads: does veganism/vegetarianism really benefit animals? I mean there are multiple reasons for going vegan/vegetarian, but by doing that can you say, with good scientific evidence, and not emotion, that it really benefits said animals?

    (by the way this is NOT an attack against veganism, or vegans, just questioning if one of the often given arguments really has GOOD evidence)
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    Nov 04, 2007 3:37 AM GMT
    FINALLY! Way to stick it to 'emicon_biggrin.gif

    If you avoid every acton that has possible negative impacts on other life forms you're gonna end up the vegetable you're eating as you read this =D

    Thanks for the fun factsicon_lol.gif
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    Nov 04, 2007 4:11 AM GMT
    actually he is pretty angry...in a different thread he said veggies were going to hell cause eating meat made us closer to the one lol

    and "stick it to em?"

    there the meat eaters go again making this a battle!

    I do hope you people find solace in your ignorance.
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    Nov 04, 2007 4:18 AM GMT
    werick what a strange question....if you take guns out of the world will anyone ever be shot by one?

    of course if people stopped eating meat there would be no farms to create cruelty onto animals for consumption.


    i for one am not saying don't eat meat...just reduce suffering....I just used that as an example.


    also, what do ya'll think of rape, child molestation, murder, domestic violence. i mean, you are okay with the slaughter and inhumane torture of animals...and you seem to have reverence for bugs...i'm not sure where there is a line drawn in what you think is acceptable behavior condoning violence. To what extent and what species is it expendable too?????

    we as veggies say, reduce the violence. You as meat eaters say, violence is acceptable in certain forms but not others. we know what violence is and we try to reduce it. You embrace it with open arms.
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    Nov 04, 2007 4:19 AM GMT
    Are you actually quoting my response to another thread? COOLIO!

    Ill be sure to live up to your admiration of me as your equal! =D

    Although I dont remember condeming anyone one to hell EVER so take your misquotes and out of context phrases somewhere else, please -.-
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    Nov 04, 2007 4:23 AM GMT
    Besides that, There is little I can or care to do about the production of meat since I consume it and since I cant manufacture it on my own Ill let whoever sells it to me decide how they wanna "skin their cat"

    P.S. It's figurative speech not an inate desire for violence, geeez!icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Nov 04, 2007 4:31 AM GMT
    no ryan...read above the statement...the stick it to em was in this thread?

    between this thread and the other you really havent kept consistant
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    Nov 04, 2007 4:33 AM GMT
    and there you go with the hell thing that greg stated first.....my god. no consistency lol.
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    Nov 04, 2007 4:47 AM GMT
    I think I said hell in the other forum, not this one. =D



    I LOVE YOU SLAYER xD
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    Nov 04, 2007 4:56 AM GMT
    Slayer you missed, as usual, the point. I have nothing against vegetarians or vegans and was raised vegetarian and didn't eat meat AT ALL until well into my 20's and still dont' eat all that much.

    Yes, if I take guns out of the world, I will not be shot, but that doesn't mean I won't be killed, and even if I don't eat animals that doesn't mean they won't be tortured -- you can still torture and kill an animals without eating them -- which happens all the time in such areas of environamental destructiion or deforastation which as I might point out happens very often for crops, and not necessarily animal production or at least is destructive for wild snimals from both a a CROP and domestic ANIMAL cultivation.

    Slayer your problem is that, though at times you show evidence of illumination, you don't recognize that arguments that disargree with you may hold some validity. I'm sorry, but I can't agree witb you with you on everything and all the time.

    Yes, there are benefits to vegetarianism/veganism, but is humane treatment of animals really one of them? And can you honestly explore and analyze that topic WITHOUT going off the emotional/irrational deep end? That really is the test of emtional maturity: study the arguemtn from the OPPOSING viewpoint rationatlly and dispassionately. Or pretend you're a meat eater arguing the other point of view and see how your arguemnts both logically and scientifically stand up, or is that too much too ask?
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    Nov 04, 2007 5:00 AM GMT
    I really don't understand all of this animosity directed towards vegetarians and vegans???
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    Nov 04, 2007 5:06 AM GMT
    Its not realy animosity but I think defensiveness.

    In my experience, when I read the start of a vegetarian thread it always has to do with meat eating being bad or cruel or whatnot.

    Being raised an omnivore by two loving parents and then to be told eating meat is too cruel for words can be disconcerting, to say the least.



    P.S. this is all off the record
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    Nov 04, 2007 5:11 AM GMT
    Nudewoody, it is not animosity, at least from my standpoint. And again, I will say that I was raised vegatarian and most of my family is still vegetarian, though most are NOT vegan, and I have nothing against vegetairnas/vengas and it represents a healthy lifestyle/diet.

    The argument is to present the facts as based on science and based on good evidence, and don't except poor science on a 'faith' based system because of your biases. There is good science for either a vegetarian or vegan lifestyle and yes they can be very healthful, and there is alsoo evidence against such lifesyles, so pick what works best for you, and realize that your firmly held beliefs MAY no stand up to the scientific evidence on either side, and nor may they constitute a well reasonded argument.

    But as for animosity for vegetarians/vegans probably overall not, but only for poorly formulated arguments and scientific evidence, which is what you MUST have to carry the day.
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    Nov 04, 2007 5:15 AM GMT
    Greg really is not an angry person, I have known him for years. He happens to be a very caring and compasionate person who is down to earth and a total sweet heart. I think he was just trying to point out that lot of these vegetarian and vegan threads follow and argument that if followed to its rational end does not play out. if your being vegan for animal cruelty reasons then look at all the things that you do not jsut what you eat and you see that you really arent doing anything by not eatting meat because the animals are being killed for other reasons as well
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    Nov 04, 2007 5:55 AM GMT
    Well, I agree, the arguments presented against eating meat mostly are totally illogical; however, if someone does not eat meat because they do not want to see animals suffer that is the direct connection they are making in their minds between meat consumption and their view of animals in the scheme of things. I just honestly feel that Greg's initial post is a little patronizing. I mean, look at what you guys are writing, "stick it to em" and then pleading that you find their beliefs "disconcerting?" Talk about illogical. For myself, although I do eat meat, I don't eat red meat, one reason being I have become convinced that it is not an environmentally sustainable practice and is a major contributor to the destruction of environmental habitats and localized economies. The other reason is the advice from my health care professionals after surviving a heart attack and open heart surgery.
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    Nov 04, 2007 6:56 AM GMT
    nudewoody: In my case, anyway, it's not animosity toward vegetarians in general, it's more specifically an animosity toward people like hippie4lyfe.

    His rhetorical style aggravates me. He comes across as interested not in conversation, but rather proselytizing. It's aggressive, it's condescending, and it's reminiscent of the same kind of self-righteousness you see in the religious right.

    So yes, I'm reacting against that, and the tone of my post was a little "smirky" as a result, I'll admit.

    But vegetarianism itself? I couldn't care less, honestly. I just with other people would respect my right to not care about it, as well.
  • phill

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    Nov 04, 2007 7:42 AM GMT
    hmmm this is interesting i think it is more of a backlash to the behavior than the ideology.

    I'm a vegan but i don't advocate the complete switch to veganism. It was my spiritual evolution to do so and i would be very egotistical to say that my spiritual revelations dictates someones else's life practices. I often times recommend to people who eat meat to get the best organic steaks they can so that they can avoid some of the harsh by products of factory farming that can pollute the system.

    I think the first thing that should be stated is that there are varying levels of veganism in which one can adhere to but the fundamental underpinning is to reduce the suffering of animals by following a plant based diet. It is ludicrous to think that a plant based diet can stave off all suffering but it is often the most common thing leveled against me in an argument against veganism. I think it is because veganism at times seems so fickle that it is easy to write it off as a hedge group who has no real basis to continue a diet that is inconvenient.

    The benefits of being vegan at least to me are apparent. Less green house gas emtitions, not contributing to the factory farming of animals. I can spout the rhetoric and percentages of how veganism or an active plant based diet contributes to the sustainment of a healthier ecosystem but there is no need because the question isn't who is right. That will never be solved. We as humans have domesticated animals for the purpose of food consumption but it has been both our capitalism and greed that has contributed to a system that allows the wholesale slaughter of animals to be done inhumanly. America, in general, greed has contributed to this both for vegans and meat eaters alike. It is no surprise that virgin amazon Rain Forest sectors are being torn down to produce soy product and crops. Effectively ruining future biodiversity for a few gallons of biodiesel.

    It isn't enough to be a vegan, a vegan is a spiritual and ethical choice it is about being a caring consumer and know what and where your products come from. A lot of people say that because the industry is intact then they in effect have to purchase from that industry with out a real say so based on a supply and demand philosophy we are beholden to said system. What they don't understand is that in a capitalist society supply and demand takes on another more immediate meaning. The consumer gets what it asks for out of fear of losing their consumers.

    I know that perhaps i veered of the path of conversation but i wanted to elucidate my point that the argument isn't about vegans against meat eaters its about conscious consumerism vs materialism and uninformed decision making. Not all vegans have it against meat eaters and vice a versa and it isn't a them or me scenario it is an all or nothing scenario. For the sake of all of us i hope we all figure out a way to overcome that scenario.
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    Nov 04, 2007 7:57 AM GMT
    Let's just stop fighting and all accept Jesus as our personal Lord and savior. Please?
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    Nov 04, 2007 11:56 AM GMT
    Was Jesus a fruit or a vegetable?
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    Nov 04, 2007 12:36 PM GMT
    NOT cool nudewoody!

    I strictly remember saying "off the record" =P

    Besides, I like eatings fruits,vegs, and rice probably as much as a true veggie (or more) but fruit doesn't last long enough and my mom doesn't have time for that -.-

    The way I see it , cute or not, it's already been killed so I can eat it so why let it go to waste?icon_neutral.gif
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    Nov 04, 2007 1:21 PM GMT
    well chung0-

    I guess that's why it is good to get a perspective outside of an already existing friendship (between you and greg). Outsiders are more easily able to see your biast eyes and anger issues.

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    Nov 04, 2007 1:55 PM GMT
    I agree let us all renounce our sinful ways and turn to Jesus.
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    Nov 04, 2007 2:17 PM GMT
    Im not christian or catholic but I'll say amen to that