When the Right to Bear Arms Clashes with the Right to be Ignorant.

  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    May 09, 2009 8:20 PM GMT
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30650051


    Boy, 7, dies in apparent tresspass shooting
    Texas authorities say victims were off-roading when they were fired upon

    HOUSTON - A 7-year-old boy who was allegedly shot in the head by a couple who thought he and three other people were trespassing on their property died Saturday, authorities said.

    Donald Coffey Jr. died Saturday morning at a Houston hospital, less than two days after the boy was struck in the head by shotgun pellets, Sheriff's Cpl. Hugh Bishop said.

    Sheila Muhs and her husband, Gayle Muhs, both 45, were charged with second-degree felony counts of aggravated assault in the shootings Thursday. They were being held at Liberty County Jail with bail set at $25,000 each and had not yet retained an attorney, Bishop said.

    Bishop said the district attorney could upgrade the charges to murder on Monday, but investigators were "still trying to get the circumstances behind the incident."

    The boy, his 5-year-old sister, their father and a family friend were off-roading near a residential area about 40 miles northeast of Houston when they were shot after stopping so the children could go to the bathroom.

    Authorities said the couple fired after they mistakenly thought the group was trespassing on their property.

    Bishop said the area includes a dirt road, trees and overgrown brush and that it wasn't uncommon for people to go off-roading there. The Houston Chronicle reported that a sign in front of the suspects' home reads: "Trespassers will be shot. Survivers will be reshot!! Smile I will."

    Liberty County Chief Deputy Ken DeFoor said Sheila Muhs fired a 12-gauge shotgun once, then handed it to her husband, who also fired once.

    DeFoor said Sheila Muhs then called 911 and told the dispatcher: "They're out here tearing up the levee, so I shot them."

    DeFoor said the levee belonged to the subdivision and was not private property.

    Bishop said there was no indication the unarmed victims did anything threatening toward the Muhs.

    Donald Coffey Sr. suffered a pellet wound in his right shoulder and his daughter, Destiny, suffered a wound to the elbow. The family friend, 30-year-old Patrick Cammack, was in serious condition Saturday with a head wound, Memorial Hermann-Texas Medical Center spokeswoman Alex Rodriguez said.

    muchs_1399630c.jpg

    Gale and Sheila Muhs, seen here in booking photos, are accused of shooting two adults and two children they mistakenly believed were trespassing on their property.
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    May 09, 2009 8:25 PM GMT
    Even if people happen upon someone's property, no one has the right to shoot at will, especially without warning. There has to be a threat to the property or to the persons on the property before self-defense could be utilized.


    I wonder how the NRA and right wingers are going to spin this one.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 09, 2009 9:05 PM GMT
    coolarmydude saidEven if people happen upon someone's property, no one has the right to shoot at will, especially without warning. There has to be a threat to the property or to the persons on the property before self-defense could be utilized.


    I wonder how the NRA and right wingers are going to spin this one.


    They´ll blame Obama. icon_rolleyes.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 09, 2009 11:15 PM GMT
    coolarmydude saidI wonder how the NRA and right wingers are going to spin this one.
    They will say Col. Mustard did it on the levee with a shotgun icon_redface.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 09, 2009 11:17 PM GMT
    They both need to be shot in the gut with something low caliber and left to die real slow.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 09, 2009 11:25 PM GMT
    coolarmydude saidEven if people happen upon someone's property, no one has the right to shoot at will, especially without warning. There has to be a threat to the property or to the persons on the property before self-defense could be utilized.

    I wonder how the NRA and right wingers are going to spin this one.

    You're wrong. It's Texas, where anybody has the right to shoot anybody else, so long as they claim they thought it was trespassing.

    Hey, 7-year-old-kid, no difference, ya get to shoot 'em dead. And I promise you these 2 will get off Scott-free, no Texas jury will convict them. Did you read what their property signs read? Texans loves this stuff. The NRA won't have to spin anything -- they're NRA role models. And good-looking, too.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 09, 2009 11:34 PM GMT
    Red_Vespa said
    coolarmydude saidEven if people happen upon someone's property, no one has the right to shoot at will, especially without warning. There has to be a threat to the property or to the persons on the property before self-defense could be utilized.

    I wonder how the NRA and right wingers are going to spin this one.

    You're wrong. It's Texas, where anybody has the right to shoot anybody else, so long as they claim they thought it was trespassing.

    Hey, 7-year-old-kid, no difference, ya get to shoot 'em dead. And I promise you these 2 will get off Scott-free, no Texas jury will convict them. Did you read what their property signs read? Texans loves this stuff. The NRA won't have to spin anything -- they're NRA role models. And good-looking, too.


    Hell, they will probably have people picketing outside the jail for them to be released and outside the hospital wanting the kid to die.
  • calibro

    Posts: 8888

    May 09, 2009 11:44 PM GMT
    Sorry, but not in Texas. You probably don't remember the case of a man killing a 13 year old boy who broke into his tailor to steal a twinky... there were actually four boys, whom he made get on their knees, beat them, and when they were begging for their lives, shot the 13 year-old. He then forced the friends of the dead boy to carry his body out of his trailor

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2008210107_snack28.html

    Or the case of the guy who shot and killed two burglars on his neighbor's property, who told the 911 operator he was going over to kill them despite the operator saying help would be there soon...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Horn_shooting_controversy

    Both men were acquitted.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 10, 2009 12:04 AM GMT
    calibro saidSorry, but not in Texas. You probably don't remember the case of a man killing a 13 year old boy who broke into his tailor to steal a twinky... there were actually four boys, whom he made get on their knees, beat them, and when they were begging for their lives, shot the 13 year-old. He then forced the friends of the dead boy to carry his body out of his trailor

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2008210107_snack28.html

    Or the case of the guy who shot and killed two burglars on his neighbor's property, who told the 911 operator he was going over to kill them despite the operator saying help would be there soon...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Horn_shooting_controversy

    Bot men were acquitted.


    Oh wow that is horrible. I really feel for those kids. But I still maintain guns don't kill people, people kill people. Though clearly in this case that man should be shot!
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    May 10, 2009 12:24 AM GMT
    Red, the people were not trespassing, according to the story. These murderers will be convicted.

    My point is that decency is aloof.
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    May 10, 2009 12:29 AM GMT
    calibro said, "Sorry, but not in Texas. You probably don't remember the case of a man killing a 13 year old boy who broke into his tailor to steal a twinky... there were actually four boys, whom he made get on their knees, beat them, and when they were begging for their lives, shot the 13 year-old. He then forced the friends of the dead boy to carry his body out of his trailor

    What the fucking hell!!! That's murder because the possible threat was removed. Presence alone is not a threat. I wonder if this case is under apeal. No wonder that state has advocates for secession.
  • calibro

    Posts: 8888

    May 10, 2009 12:37 AM GMT
    coolarmydude said
    What the fucking hell!!! That's murder because the possible threat was removed. Presence alone is not a threat. I wonder if this case is under apeal. No wonder that state has advocates for secession.


    Sorry, no appeal allowed because the man was acquitted. He simply claimed it was his life or theirs, and all twelve jurors took only four hours to find him innocent of the charges... regardless of the fact that the man was not originally in his trailor when the boys were looking for snacks and sneaked in to catch them, or that each were unarmed and made no physical attempt to attack him. So clearly, if you can shoot an unarmed 13 year-old with a shot gun at close range in the back of the head execution style in front of his friends for only taking a twinky, who is on his knees begging for life after you just kicked the shit of him, I wouldn't be surprised if those two murders were acquitted for what they did to that 7 year-old boy.
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    May 10, 2009 12:57 AM GMT
    That is really outrageous. icon_sad.gif

    I think this case is going to be heavily scrutinized because of all the recent shooting sprees and murder/suicides that has been going on in the country. I will also bet that judging from the mug shots, a more sordid history of these two will be revealed and people will throw the book at them.

    Will Nancy Grace overkill this case too?????
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 10, 2009 1:03 AM GMT
    "Right to bear arms" does not have a direct realtionship with murder. If you think you can't separate the two then we should ban the simulation of murder on TV, in Movies etc along with the guns.
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    May 10, 2009 1:12 AM GMT
    No, but there is a significant indirect relationship between guns and murder.

    My point is that there are obviously too many of the wrong people with guns. Even if it's their legal right to have guns, and even if there's nothing that can be done about it, there are too many igno-fucks with guns.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 10, 2009 4:18 PM GMT
    Holy Shit, here on Mothers day I learn of this fun fact from my birth state...Tx ain't the only state messed up...

    [url]http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/05/08/national/main5001150.shtml[url]

    well that's not working...It says that the legislator is gonna vote for the right to carry guns into bars and any establishment that serves liquor...
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 10, 2009 4:20 PM GMT
    Even if the Obama passes a no guns law criminals would still have guns and I would rather have one of my own when coming up against a home invader, like this kid.

    From 11 News staff reports

    An overnight home invasion robbery attempt in northeast Harris County ended in a hail of gunfire that left two suspects dead.

    Investigators said a 17-year-old was home with his cousin when four armed men kicked in the door and started shooting.

    The teen pulled out a shotgun of his own and fired back at the suspects, killing two of them.

    Two other suspects were later caught.

    The 17-year-old asked to not be identified.

    “Truthfully, it was either them or me, regardless of who was on the other side of that door or whoever kicked my door down, it was either him or me,” he said. “I’m thankful to be standing here today. I thank god.”

    Authorities said at this point they are not planning on filing charges against the teen.

    http://www.khou.com/news/local/stories/khou061228_ac_crosbyshooting.547846d3.html
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 10, 2009 4:25 PM GMT
    calibro said... So clearly, if you can shoot an unarmed 13 year-old with a shot gun at close range in the back of the head execution style in front of his friends for only taking a twinky, who is on his knees begging for life after you just kicked the shit of him, I wouldn't be surprised if those two murders were acquitted for what they did to that 7 year-old boy.

    Yep, that's mah Texas! Don't ya just love 'em? Lived down there a number of years, they just thrive on shootin' each other for nuthin'.

    And this is the kind of law that Republicans and the NRA want to spread throughout the rest of the US. Yee-hah! icon_razz.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 10, 2009 4:55 PM GMT
    Is there a time when it doesn't????

    Over the past 3 weeks there have several incidences of entire families being wiped out -not by someone breaking in, but by loved ones of said families. The sad thing is that this is such the norm now that it rarely raises an eyebrow anymore.

    Funny enough, the apparent reason for bearing arms -protection against outside dangers seems to be quite a lie...
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 10, 2009 5:12 PM GMT
    Stories such as this make me want to believe in Hell.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 10, 2009 5:15 PM GMT
    family%20guy%20bear%20arms.jpg

    "i don't know how we could be more clear, everyone has the right to own a pair of bear arms"
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 11, 2009 3:14 AM GMT
    I dont think the NRA will try to spin this. Everyone knows there are nut jobs who shouldnt own guns and these people should not have owned guns. I am a responsible gun owner and so are my friends and we would never have done anything like this.

    I believe someone said this earlier, but it is people who kill people.
  • calibro

    Posts: 8888

    May 11, 2009 3:40 AM GMT
    luvjunkie saidEven if the Obama passes a no guns law criminals would still have guns and I would rather have one of my own when coming up against a home invader, like this kid.

    From 11 News staff reports

    An overnight home invasion robbery attempt in northeast Harris County ended in a hail of gunfire that left two suspects dead.

    Investigators said a 17-year-old was home with his cousin when four armed men kicked in the door and started shooting.

    The teen pulled out a shotgun of his own and fired back at the suspects, killing two of them.

    Two other suspects were later caught.

    The 17-year-old asked to not be identified.

    “Truthfully, it was either them or me, regardless of who was on the other side of that door or whoever kicked my door down, it was either him or me,” he said. “I’m thankful to be standing here today. I thank god.”

    Authorities said at this point they are not planning on filing charges against the teen.

    http://www.khou.com/news/local/stories/khou061228_ac_crosbyshooting.547846d3.html


    I don't think people are arguing about the right to own guns. If you want to buy a gun to protect yourself in your own home, that's your business. The question in case is the right to shoot people for trespassing or when they pose no life-threatening situation. There's a difference between a 17 year old grabbing a shot gun to shoot four armed men robbing his house, and two adults killing a 7 year old boy, wounding his younger sister, and critically injuring a family friend for off roading in a levee. One situation is about life and death, and the other is using the law to kill someone just because you can.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 11, 2009 3:43 AM GMT
    Coolarmydude, I read about the article in today's paper. I also read how some have been trying to pass that school kids that have a gun license can carry their guns in school. Let's hope that one doesn't pass.
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    May 11, 2009 3:44 AM GMT
    Well said, calibro.