American Clean Energy and Security Act of 2009 (ACES)

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    May 13, 2009 9:31 PM GMT
    I think we should be aware of this legislation and support it...

    The legislation has four titles:

    (1) a “clean energy” title that promotes renewable sources of energy and carbon capture and sequestration technologies, low-carbon transportation fuels, clean electric vehicles, and the smart grid and electricity transmission;

    (2) an “energy efficiency” title that increases energy efficiency across all sectors of the economy, including buildings, appliances, transportation, and industry;

    (3) a “global warming” title that places limits on the emissions of heat-trapping pollutants; and

    (4) a “transitioning” title that protects U.S. consumers and industry and promotes green jobs during the transition to a clean energy economy


    Bill Summary page: http://energycommerce.house.gov/Press_111/20090331/acesa_summary.pdf


    http://energycommerce.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1560:chairmen-waxman-markey-release-discussion-draft-of-new-clean-energy-legislation&catid=122:media-advisories&Itemid=80
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    May 14, 2009 4:18 AM GMT
    Ok I'd support it if I can be convinced there's such thing as global warming, and so far I have not. Sorry.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 14, 2009 4:29 AM GMT
    Its refreshing to see more people concerned about what we are doing to this planet. It's long overdue.
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    May 14, 2009 4:35 AM GMT
    cruelsummer saidOk I'd support it if I can be convinced there's such thing as global warming, and so far I have not. Sorry.

    You're new here....so let this be a warning to you ...dont be speaking smack on a Caslon thread ... icon_evil.gif

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  • styrgan

    Posts: 2017

    May 14, 2009 5:00 AM GMT
    Caslon10000 said
    cruelsummer saidOk I'd support it if I can be convinced there's such thing as global warming, and so far I have not. Sorry.

    You're new here....so let this be a warning to you ...dont be speaking smack on a Caslon thread ... icon_evil.gif

    funny pictures


    Yeah... someone should tell him about the 1000 post rule.

    ...and about speaking rationally as opposed to filling our beloved threads with noise.
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    May 14, 2009 5:13 AM GMT
    Well, I think this piece of legislation is terribly flawed. First, this legislation will destroy what is left of our industrial sector. In a recession the last thing we need to do is make our companies even less competitive in foreign markets. We need to export and this will simply send the rest of our production overseas. Now, they claim to be prepared for this scenario:

    Ensuring Domestic Competitiveness. To ensure that U.S. manufacturers are not put at a disadvantage relative to overseas competitors, the draft authorizes companies in certain industrial sectors to receive “rebates” to compensate for additional costs incurred under the program. Sectors that use large amounts of energy, and produce commodities that are traded globally, would be eligible for the rebates. If the President finds that the rebate provisions do not sufficiently correct competitive imbalances, the President is directed to establish a “border adjustment” program. Under that program, foreign manufacturers and importers would be required to pay for and hold special allowances to “cover” the carbon contained in U.S.-bound products.

    So basically, those industries which the government thinks are important (i.e. whichever lobbies give them the most support) can be exempt so only those which are not in favor with the administration must carry the burden of saving the planet. Oh, and the president now has power over which companies outside of the U.S. can sell us their stuff. What does this mean for us? Everything we buy is going to cost a heck of a lot more, and since no one has any money right now, we're basically screwed.

    So, in light of the current economic situation and the massive government debt which we already have (which will be made much worse by all the subsidies to clean energy this bill provides), I have a different suggestion:

    STOP SUBSIDIES! Stop subsidizing (or bailing out) the American auto industry (which can't keep up with emissions standards compared to, say, Japan). Stop subsidizing the airlines which are an admitted source of high altitude pollution. Stop subsidizing gas to keep the price down. Stop subsidies to oil companies and power plants. There are more I'm sure, but my point is that if we do this then the subsequent price increases will push the market towards green technology naturally. The other added benefit will be that LESS taxpayer money will be spent, so that money could be used by the people to buy the cheapest products (which will eventually be the green ones).

    You all need to realize the green lobby is just as bad as the oil lobby. They all want special treatment, and this bill gives it to them. This bill also gives the congress and especially the president power over which companies live or die by holding them for "green ransom." It calls for massive increase in governmental power over the economy, open-ended preferential treatment of companies at the sole discretion of a few individuals, and a MASSIVE increase in spending (and debt) for goals that can be achieved by other means. It also calls for simultaneously spending more government money while other subsidy programs still exist whose goals are in direct conflict with the goals of this bill! We need to wake up and realize that sometimes the government doing LESS is actually MORE!

    P.S. I was apparently hasty when I wrote this. They actually don't address exports, just domestic competitiveness. They provide no mechanism for protecting the competitiveness of exports.
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    May 14, 2009 5:18 AM GMT
    styrgan saidYeah... someone should tell him about the 1000 post rule.

    You tell him....it would sound so pretentious coming from me.

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  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 14, 2009 5:27 AM GMT
    Our products are already being produced overseas, does it really matter if we stay competitive at this point? American Industry is only important to American hicks.

    Anyways, you shut down some groups who have to pollute, you open up America's moving into developing new technologies which could then be sold. We'll be building new energy resources and plants, vehicle technologies, architectural technologies, etc.

    The economy will simply shift over, not crumble.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 14, 2009 5:27 AM GMT
    someone!! tell me before it's too late icon_question.gificon_exclaim.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 14, 2009 5:32 AM GMT
    cruelsummer saidsomeone!! tell me before it's too late icon_question.gificon_exclaim.gif

    It's too late.
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    May 14, 2009 5:35 AM GMT
    cruelsummer saidsomeone!! tell me before it's too late icon_question.gificon_exclaim.gif

    You are not allowed to address me directly until you reach 1000 posts.

    funny pictures ...It's in the rules. ...Look it up.
  • jrs1

    Posts: 4388

    May 14, 2009 9:32 AM GMT

    WooHoo, sustainability!

    Nice topic.

    call me a hippie, I suppose:

    istockphoto_4102685_green_earth.jpg
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    May 14, 2009 9:52 AM GMT
    I am absolutely convinced of Global Warming and I support the bill, but I am not convinced there is such a thing as Clean Coal.


    And that 1000 post rule is about as useful as an icemaker in hell.
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    May 14, 2009 9:58 AM GMT
    Caslon10000 saidfunny pictures


    LMAO!