40 S&W or 357 Sig?

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    May 17, 2009 2:51 AM GMT

    I shopped for a new toy today but could not decide whether I wanted a 40 S&W or a 357 Sig. It seems most law enforcement agencies are slit between a preference for the two, with urban cops preferring the 357 Sig to the 40.

    You guys have a preference?
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    May 17, 2009 3:20 AM GMT
    since when did a gun become a toy?
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    May 17, 2009 3:43 AM GMT
    lilTanker saidsince when did a gun become a toy?



    Toy in a figurative sense lilTanker. "The difference between a man and a boy is the size of his Toys."

    I grew up an outdoors kid. Outdoors as in the woods, fields, and swamps. The perspective and perception of guns is dramatically different. A little shotshell in a 38 comes in handy when a old copperhead wanders up.

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    May 17, 2009 3:59 AM GMT
    I'd never even heard of 357 Sig until reading this thread, so on the basis of that alone, I'd choose the 40 S&W because my guess is that the ammo is more readily available for it. I own one oddball caliber firearm, a .260 Rem rifle, and it's mildly annoying that there's so little choice in ammo. It's a great rifle, though.
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    May 17, 2009 4:39 AM GMT
    paradox saidI'd never even heard of 357 Sig until reading this thread, so on the basis of that alone, I'd choose the 40 S&W because my guess is that the ammo is more readily available for it. I own one oddball caliber firearm, a .260 Rem rifle, and it's mildly annoying that there's so little choice in ammo. It's a great rifle, though.


    The .260 Remington is a rather odd one. What are you hunting with the 260?

    The 357 SIG was developed by the Swiss firearms maker SIG-Sauer in the 1990's. It was an attempt to produce a weapon with similar ballistics to the 357 Magnum but in an automatic pistol. In the lower weight bullets (125 grain or so) it equals the 357 Magum that is a rimmed revolver round. The 357 SIG is very popular in Europe. Obviously very much so in gun crazy Switzerland.
  • EricLA

    Posts: 3461

    May 17, 2009 7:07 AM GMT
    I find them novelty weapons. They're fun to shoot once in a while, but I prefer more manageable firepower for a handgun. If I want something with a kick, I'd rather do trap or skeet.
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    May 17, 2009 10:16 AM GMT
    EricLA saidI find them novelty weapons. They're fun to shoot once in a while, but I prefer more manageable firepower for a handgun. If I want something with a kick, I'd rather do trap or skeet.


    I'm a big trap and skeet shooter. Used to shoot weekly at a place called Cherokee Rose.

    Novelty weapon? Lol. The 40 and 357 SIG are far more manageable for flower on shots than a 10mm. I have a Glock model 29 in 10mm that is a little tiger. Try one.
  • Medic911

    Posts: 152

    May 17, 2009 11:22 AM GMT
    I don't know what you're talking about so I'm just going to say random numbers too and hope it sounds like a gun...


    222 RTF with a 42 mm whipshot 78

    and a 904 RodgerDodger with a sling 61






    ...yeah.
  • Arcangel7769

    Posts: 106

    May 17, 2009 1:39 PM GMT
    twomack said
    I shopped for a new toy today but could not decide whether I wanted a 40 S&W or a 357 Sig. It seems most law enforcement agencies are slit between a preference for the two, with urban cops preferring the 357 Sig to the 40.

    You guys have a preference?


    Depends. You talking about open carry (as in police sidearm) or concealed? For concealed, neither is all that practical. Honestly not too much a fan of either calibre. If you want sheer stopping power I'd go for the Sig. The .40 is meant to be a compromise between the 9mm and the .45 cal. For concealed carry WITH stopping power, I prefer the Glock model 36 in .45 cal.

    On the other hand, if you just like to shoot competition or just for fun, ammo for a 9mm is much cheaper and easier to find. Personally, I compete with 9mm and .45. But that's just my preference.

    By the way, before the flames start, I'm not a "gun nut". I just like individual skill competition. I also compete in Archery and just recently in foil and epee. Hoping to move on to sabre next. I really get a kick out of it when my opponents find out that a gay man (wearing a pink t-shirt that sez "Tough guys wear pink") just beat them in what they consider the so called "manly sports".
    icon_wink.gif
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    May 17, 2009 1:41 PM GMT
    Medic911 saidI don't know what you're talking about so I'm just going to say random numbers too and hope it sounds like a gun...


    222 RTF with a 42 mm whipshot 78

    and a 904 RodgerDodger with a sling 61






    ...yeah.


    Honesty is always appreciated. icon_smile.gif
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    May 17, 2009 1:55 PM GMT
    twomack saidThe .260 Remington is a rather odd one. What are you hunting with the 260?


    Deer. I'm a heavy flincher, and the .260 has less recoil than most high-power rifles. I could probably get along ok with the much more common .243, but it has less range and power. My other firearms are lower power and very common: .22LR, .223, and 20ga. I no longer own a handgun because I'm a terrible shot; the one handgun I did own was a 9mm.
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    May 17, 2009 4:17 PM GMT


    Deer. I'm a heavy flincher, and the .260 has less recoil than most high-power rifles. I could probably get along ok with the much more common .243, but it has less range and power. My other firearms are lower power and very common: .22LR, .223, and 20ga. I no longer own a handgun because I'm a terrible shot; the one handgun I did own was a 9mm.[/quote]

    A 243 would be good. Unfortunately as you go down in energy the requirement to place the shot well increases.

    I was six years old when I got my first 22LR. Lol. It was a Marlin bolt action. For my eighth birthday I received my first deer rifle, a Marlin Glenfield in 30-30. Excellent deer rifle for brush. Still have that rifle after all these years.

    Oddly, one of the most high stakes hunts can be for feral hog. You may or may not bring them down easily. We typically hunt with dogs. I usually carry something no lighter than a Weatherby 300 as backup.

    Other than that.....there's Cape Buffalo or Rhino. Woo Hoo!!!!

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    May 17, 2009 4:22 PM GMT
    Please stay out of my neighborhood with those guns... too many kids and dogs around here.
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    May 17, 2009 4:59 PM GMT
    twomack said
    I shopped for a new toy today but could not decide whether I wanted a 40 S&W or a 357 Sig. It seems most law enforcement agencies are slit between a preference for the two, with urban cops preferring the 357 Sig to the 40.

    You guys have a preference?



    Why choose? icon_biggrin.gif
    Just got a 357Sig model that offers 40S&W barrels: 357Sig pistols can be converted to 40S&W with a simple barrel and mag change.

    Arcangel said that neither caliber is practical for concealed carry, and I'm stupefied by that statement.

    The most important aspect of concealability is size, and of size the focus characteristic is width. For draw, length is obviously a concern but not presenting yourself as the primary target to an errant dumbshit (criminal) is the primary concern.
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    May 17, 2009 5:48 PM GMT



    Why choose? icon_biggrin.gif
    Just got a 357Sig model that offers 40S&W barrels: 357Sig pistols can be converted to 40S&W with a simple barrel and mag change.

    Arcangel said that neither caliber is practical for concealed carry, and I'm stupefied by that statement.

    The most important aspect of concealability is size, and of size the focus characteristic is width. For draw, length is obviously a concern but not presenting yourself as the primary target to an errant dumbshit (criminal) is the primary concern. [/quote]

    True, but I usually carry a Glock Model 36 (45 ACP) with CorBon ammunition for concealed carry.

    What make pistol do you prefer?
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    May 17, 2009 7:01 PM GMT
    twomack said


    Why choose? icon_biggrin.gif
    Just got a 357Sig model that offers 40S&W barrels: 357Sig pistols can be converted to 40S&W with a simple barrel and mag change.

    Arcangel said that neither caliber is practical for concealed carry, and I'm stupefied by that statement.

    The most important aspect of concealability is size, and of size the focus characteristic is width. For draw, length is obviously a concern but not presenting yourself as the primary target to an errant dumbshit (criminal) is the primary concern.


    True, but I usually carry a Glock Model 36 (45 ACP) with CorBon ammunition for concealed carry.

    What make pistol do you prefer?[/quote]

    Glock? *snigger*

    No, really, shame on you. icon_razz.gif


    I'm currently between pistols. I have a S&W4006TSW with the rail chopped off; couldn't find a decent holster that accepted the rail. The Smith is a fine pistol but I don't like the safety: to put the pistol into battery you have to toggle the lever forward, in an up swinging motion, in other words opposite of the Colt 45. The motion is awkward and amounts to jabbing with your thumb which requires me to draw my palm off the grip slightly and that sacrifices my hold. I'm not about to carry it in battery, nor unchambered. It's bad juju all around.

    I've been thinking about a DOA strictly for carry. I don't like DOA for target shooting and I can't really bring myself to trust internal safeties and expect to keep my affinity for manual safeties. Ruger SR9 might prove promising, bur really, drop fires? Same with their CLP. Give me a break.

    When I scrape some pennies together I'll likely end up with a S&W M&P 40 NIL-NML-NS for carry. They're purdy.
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    May 17, 2009 7:28 PM GMT


    Glock? *snigger*

    No, really, shame on you. icon_razz.gif


    I'm currently between pistols. I have a S&W4006TSW with the rail chopped off; couldn't find a decent holster that accepted the rail. The Smith is a fine pistol but I don't like the safety: to put the pistol into battery you have to toggle the lever forward, in an up swinging motion, in other words opposite of the Colt 45. The motion is awkward and amounts to jabbing with your thumb which requires me to draw my palm off the grip slightly and that sacrifices my hold. I'm not about to carry it in battery, nor unchambered. It's bad juju all around.

    I've been thinking about a DOA strictly for carry. I don't like DOA for target shooting and I can't really bring myself to trust internal safeties and expect to keep my affinity for manual safeties. Ruger SR9 might prove promising, bur really, drop fires? Same with their CLP. Give me a break.

    When I scrape some pennies together I'll likely end up with a S&W M&P 40 NIL-NML-NS for carry. They're purdy.[/quote]

    The Ruger is larger framed, but good. Try a Kahr K40.
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    May 18, 2009 5:11 AM GMT
    twomack said
    The Ruger is larger framed, but good. Try a Kahr K40.



    Larger framed than what? The SR9 is 9MM only and has a rather thin slide and it's only a 10 shot so it probably doesn't have a double stack mag. Their P series is an extremely reliable pistol but for carry I find it too chunky. I haven't seen their latest gen, but they should put hogue inlays in their grips.

    I've never been interested in Kahrs, and we've only sold about three of them in the last ten years. They may make a fine pistol but they aren't popular around here and I have zilch for experience with them.
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    May 18, 2009 5:31 AM GMT
    40 is best for price of rounds but 357sig has better ballistic, I would buy a 357sig and then a 40 barrel to shoot the cheaper roundsicon_cool.gif
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    May 18, 2009 5:41 AM GMT
    Here in the wild wild west you have to have a gun. I mean....I have blow the shit out of a few Diamond Back rattle snakes...not to mention a few other things that have tried to attack me. I have an automatic shot gun that will blow any thing to bits....very effective.

    I am also a hunter. Not that I do it any more....but when you have a pop that's a combination of red-neck...hick...you will go along whether you like it or not. So I did learn how to shoot...in more ways than one on the ranch!!

    OH...those where the real fucking glory days!!
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    May 19, 2009 1:46 AM GMT

    Just get a 10mm and get it over with. I suspect you collect 'em from the sound of it. We'll do skeet some time.
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    May 19, 2009 1:59 AM GMT
    Seriously, I'm having problems why you are considering the .357 Sig. For that matter, even the 40 S&W is a little troubling to me.

    When I was in law enforcement, I was directly involved with the purchase of department issued weapons. We test fired numerous guns all the time with different rounds. I can honestly say that if there was one round that I would want to use in case I was defending myself or others against imminent threat of great bodily harm or death it would be the .45 magnum. In uniform, I carried the Glock 21 and when I was an investigator, I used the Glock 30. Glocks are perfect because they are extremely reliable and all you do is point it and shoot -- no safeties or catches to have to worry about. I still have all my Glocks, which include the 17, 21, 27, and 30 with the 17 being the oldest because when I started in law enforcement it had to be a 9 mm. I have never had a malfunction with the 17 and very, very few with the 21. The nice thing with the Glock is that you have plenty of rounds. Most 45 use single-stack magazines but Glock staggers the magazine to get more rounds in them.

    After shooting the .357 Sig, I would stay clear away from it. The .40 is a decent weapon but where I work, departments are transitioning away from the 40 in droves and are going back to or turning to the .45 magnum.

    If you want more information, Google Massad Ayoob, a well known firearm's instructor who has been called upon by the courts many times for his expert opinions in terms of weaponary and deadly force encounters. He hasn't met too many rounds or guns that he doesn't like but he always stands by his choice that the .45 magnum is the round to have.
  • dannyboy1101

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    May 19, 2009 2:18 AM GMT
    Just go Kill Bill style... Hatori Hanzo Death Steel sword - priceless
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    May 19, 2009 2:33 AM GMT
    t_montana9 saidSeriously, I'm having problems why you are considering the .357 Sig. For that matter, even the 40 S&W is a little troubling to me.

    When I was in law enforcement, I was directly involved with the purchase of department issued weapons. We test fired numerous guns all the time with different rounds. I can honestly say that if there was one round that I would want to use in case I was defending myself or others against imminent threat of great bodily harm or death it would be the .45 magnum. In uniform, I carried the Glock 21 and when I was an investigator, ....................


    I have two Glock subcompacts. A model 36 which is a 45 ACP and a model 29 which is 10mm. My preferene is the model 36, but I use the model 29 as a backup gun when hunting hog.

    I always carry the Glock in a combat holster as I worry about snagging the trigger on something. Just a level of comfort for an old man who grew up with an external safety.

    Sounds like a 40 is in the works.

    Thanks!!!
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    May 19, 2009 4:15 AM GMT
    t_montana9 saidSeriously, I'm having problems why you are considering the .357 Sig. For that matter, even the 40 S&W is a little troubling to me.

    When I was in law enforcement, I was directly involved with the purchase of department issued weapons. We test fired numerous guns all the time with different rounds. I can honestly say that if there was one round that I would want to use in case I was defending myself or others against imminent threat of great bodily harm or death it would be the .45 magnum. In uniform, I carried the Glock 21 and when I was an investigator, I used the Glock 30. Glocks are perfect because they are extremely reliable and all you do is point it and shoot -- no safeties or catches to have to worry about. I still have all my Glocks, which include the 17, 21, 27, and 30 with the 17 being the oldest because when I started in law enforcement it had to be a 9 mm. I have never had a malfunction with the 17 and very, very few with the 21. The nice thing with the Glock is that you have plenty of rounds. Most 45 use single-stack magazines but Glock staggers the magazine to get more rounds in them.

    After shooting the .357 Sig, I would stay clear away from it. The .40 is a decent weapon but where I work, departments are transitioning away from the 40 in droves and are going back to or turning to the .45 magnum.

    If you want more information, Google Massad Ayoob, a well known firearm's instructor who has been called upon by the courts many times for his expert opinions in terms of weaponary and deadly force encounters. He hasn't met too many rounds or guns that he doesn't like but he always stands by his choice that the .45 magnum is the round to have.



    I'm assuming your mean .45 ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol)/ AP (Automatic Pistol), as there is no .45 Magnum.

    Some .45 rounds suffers from velocity deficiencies that prevent HP rounds from expanding.
    Capacity is nice, but if you can't hit it with 10, 3 more isn't going to help you, you're just going to blow out three more windows or shoot three extra bystanders.

    From my position the Glock is a piece of crap that people get so they can be tacti-cool.
    You can't get worse then receiving a Glock back from their repair facility along with a call that they didn't fix it because there was nothing wrong with it, but just you never mind the handwritten note from the inspector, the Glock employee, detailing the workmanship failure.

    The Glock line was a pooch over from the get go. The designer of the Glock was removed from the company because he was making trouble about the company releasing the firearm with deficiencies. The company quietly did agency direct repairs as they discovered the problem that the company already knew about.

    The cops I know despise their agency issue Glocks.