is it okay to be a gay man who doesn't like other gay men?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 10, 2007 2:55 AM GMT
    Given we're all gay men and have drama, period, be it about the things in the real world, such as, keeping bills paid, keeping your act/image together, or, the typical, silly, childish type of drama, such as playing games, stringing others along, getting caught up in the he/she say mess. And you know that familiar saying...Drama only comes to those who go looking for it. And that is SOOO true. When you hear straight people knock & criticize us for being who & what we are, you're used to hearing it, right? But when you hear someone who happens to be gay say those same remarks, would you be used to it? Given we are who we are and no one you would think knows us any better than ourselves, I do not think its wrong, in any way, shape or form, to say that, given you're a gay man, that you don't like other gay men. You know what its like when you see it with your own two eyes about them: They're sneaky, shallow, vain, cannot be trusted, VERY unreliable, underhanded, promiscuous, next to rude & hedonistic, as well as vindictive when they don't get their way & when they do, they're still not content with what's at hand for them and, last, but not least, their loyalty (you're lucky these days to find a good gay man with any) runs transparent. On top of it, you see the games they play, yes, you see what they're into and yet, we're supposed to "deal with it" or we can take the high road to avoid the drama of heartbreak & be hung/wrapped up in ourselves. When your light bulb comes on & IT DOES, you start to see gay men for the lies that they tell & the games that they play; someone rolls up to you and says, "What's up?", instead of, "Hello, how are you?" and you're like, "Back the hell up, I don't have time for these games." When your light bulb comes on, it means you have had enough of it (the games, drama & lies)icon_rolleyes.gif And you got people that will say "We be rebukin' Satan", yeah, you'll be rebuking Satan & beating the hell out of everybody and everything to get your peace of mind & have some sort of understanding. Your choice, your call, its either you can deal with the lies, games a/w/a the drama when it comes to typical ass games that gay men LOVE to play or you can be self-sbsorbed.

    Which road would you take?
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    Nov 10, 2007 4:54 AM GMT
    Yes. Just because we share the same sexual preference doesn't mean we have to 'love' everyone we meet. I work with a doctor who is gay and VERY VERY arrogant. Fortunately, I don't have to sleep or live with him, just deal with him at work on a professional level.

    (Doesn't help that he is damn good looking and he knows it)

    I personally don't have a lot of time and energy to spend on someone who is playing a lot of games and wrapped up in the drama of their so called life. If that is the game they wish to play and present themselves to the world then so be it, I will pass and just move on.

  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16305

    Nov 10, 2007 12:54 PM GMT
    Who doesn't see it...? The drama, etc (to me) is just a means of self centeredness.... to draw attention
    to(that person) and when I see it, just roll my eyes and move on. I think if one is around it enough, you can begin to emulate and I don't want to do any of it. I always think of myself as being an observer from the outside with most of that stuff.

    I have some good gay friends and others who I don't care to be involved with based on their behavior. But isn't that life?icon_neutral.gif
  • Timbales

    Posts: 13993

    Nov 10, 2007 1:06 PM GMT
    IMO - it's ok to be a person that has doesn't want to deal with shallowness, game playing, etc.

    To say that's a gay thing and refer to that way is wrong.
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    Nov 10, 2007 3:20 PM GMT
    ditto Timberoo! What he said...icon_lol.gif
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    Nov 10, 2007 3:47 PM GMT
    It all boils down to get to know the person before you get invloved. Meet his friends and family. What about some long term dating before jumping in the sake?

    If at any time, there is something you do not like, it may be a warnig sign and listen to your inner spirit, your head and your heart. Nobody is perfect, that is for sure.

    Why do you think 50% of marriages end in devorce. Humans jump too fast and get involved with the wrong person.



  • Alan95823

    Posts: 306

    Nov 10, 2007 4:00 PM GMT
    In this scenario:

    "someone rolls up to you and says, "What's up?", and you're like, "back the hell up, I don't have time for these games." "

    I'd say that's over-reacting to history, and not giving a new person a chance to be a decent human being. That way lies bitterness.

    However, being nice also doesn't mean you have to be a doormat, so when someone you've gotten to know proves they're creating the kind of drama you don't want to deal with, then walk away.

    Although, I got accused of being "dramatic" and got dumped by one guy the day after my sister suicided. I guess it's all in how you define it.
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    Nov 10, 2007 4:04 PM GMT
    "you start to see gay men for the lies that they tell & the games they play"

    Please don't let your experience with horrible gay men ruin your ability to trust or love someone in the future.

    I am one of those men who is free of drama and does not play games or tell lies. Gay men like me exist; not all gay men are drama and lies.
  • zakariahzol

    Posts: 2241

    Nov 10, 2007 4:11 PM GMT
    I just cant stand it when some gay men start preaching what we did is sinful, wrong in the eye of god, but he himself indulging himself in homosexual activities. They usually have the attitude that I am gay now , but latter I will repent and leave this life style behind and when I die I go to haven. It such a phony and hypocrate. But in the way its a reflection of who I am inside , because I use to think that way.
    There a times in my life that I dont like other gay men (including myself) but yet I cant stop myself from lusting for other guys. It a constant struggle .

    For those guys living a double life, in the closet, and other miserable existence , I understand what they go thru.
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    Nov 10, 2007 4:14 PM GMT
    yeah really... i'm not sure which gay people you're hanging around but maybe you should find some new ones! i don't have any gay friends who act in the ways you are sterotyping here...
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    Nov 10, 2007 4:19 PM GMT
    who really cares? Drama happens wheather you are straight or gay. We just look better at it. icon_lol.gif

    But seriously I would rather be self absorbed rather than self loathing. I am neither but i used to hate myself and the fact that i was different but now I embrace myself my differences and only hate the haters.

    I refered to myself as a bitch the other day around a bunch of guys i chill with at college one of them i hung out with the longest and he says, You know I don't really think your a bitch your actually very nice unlike "that other guy" who is inconsiderate on others feelings. This takes place in the Queer Straight Alliance room at Holyoke community college btw.

    He also liked that i insisted on calling him David instead of his nickname dubbed by "that other guy" MOM
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    Nov 10, 2007 4:24 PM GMT
    At face value any group (subculture) tends to have some rank stuff as well as some perceived positives. We tend to focus on the rank. I can't think of one subgroup that I really want to claim to be a part of wholeheartedly.

    I think it goes to show that labels (in respect to subgroups like a religion, gay, American, European, racial or ethnic, etc.) don't do us justice.

    Critical mass of any of these subgroups can be overwhelming and depending on your point of view empowering or disappointing. I think we have all reveled in the moment of finding "others" like us (whatever the us is). Like lots of gay men have a period where they really enjoy the gay scene.

    But to me, many times that homogenized-ness (as in milk) is toxic. Too much of me is too much. I don't think it is unique to gay. We'd think the same things if we were in any other group.

    I wonder, and I am so weak at this, in what ways can I make this space that I occupy (whatever gay is) better? How can I be a filter of the bullshit, and by my actions and demeanor breathe hope into my little influence?
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    Nov 10, 2007 4:33 PM GMT
    I think it is wrong to generalize all gay men, I can see where you are coming from, sometimes it feels like all gay men are well - bitches. But there are plenty of good guys out there too. Don't ask me where they are though LOL.
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    Nov 10, 2007 10:17 PM GMT
    Being all-accepting is a huge mistake.

    Somebody is a pictureless. Who needs them? To much baggage.

    Somebody sends me penis pics. Get real. Cut 'em loose ahead of time.

    Discrete? Who needs someone in their life who is dishonest. Get rid of them.

    And so on.

    Somewhere along the line, the very liberal left made up a rule that anything goes: LCD (Least Common Denominator) You have every right to set standards for yourself and those you choose to associate with.

    That doesn't mean I'm saying to be an asshole. Decorum, grace, and eloquence are good karma, however, many gay folks handle even the slightest rejection in the worst of ways.

    Do what makes you happy without hurting others.

    If some fat guy tells me how hot I am and tells me how he wants this and that. If I say not interested, often, they lash out. That's unrealistic for someone not in your league to think you might share a mutual interest.

    You have every right to pick and choose. I didn't say use. I said pick and choose.
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    Nov 10, 2007 10:19 PM GMT
    I might add that if a person comes across with all the signals that you don't like...dump them, early on, instead of giving yourself a headache.

    And, from a sexual perspective, I know what I want when I see it. No amount of adoration (a thing used on me very frequently) is going to get me over the hump. I don't need adoration. I'd rather have a good lay.

    And...there's the primal triangle: Food, Sex, Shelter. Those three have to work well, before anything serious relationship can follow. That's part of the human condition.
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    Nov 10, 2007 10:36 PM GMT
    Food . sex. shelter.

    Food yes we must die or we will eat.

    Shelter some sort otherwise we might die because of the conditions.

    Sex sure some people would say "i would die if i cant have sex" but not literally so I am not sure this is a primal need, unless we are talking about reproduction. Which on REALJOCK.com I doubt this is what we are discussing, lol gaylords.
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    Nov 11, 2007 6:37 AM GMT
    hippie... sexual gratification IS a primal need... and some humans connect that with a good lay while others prefer to go the route of a steady relationship in which to have that primal need met.

    As for the whole drama thing... you have a choice here... if you don't like the drama, walk away from it. If there's always drama connected with a certain person, don't associate with them. Otherwise, you know what to expect and if you choose to be around that person or those people, deal with it.

    And no... drama is NOT just a "gay thing". I've gotten more drama out of straight people in my life than gay ones... but that's just my personal experience.

    Not ALL gay men are disloyal, dishonest, playing games, promiscuous, etc. Broad generalizations of ANY kind are never accurate and its a good idea to avoid them. If you don't approve of that kind of behavior, again, you have every right to not associate with those people... but also, holding someone else up to your own moral standards is no different from Bible-thumpers doing the same to you because you're gay. It sounds like you've had bad experiences and it sounds like you're a little bitter. Here's a solution... find new people to hang out with and make sure to be the kind of person you want to attract (if you're not already). You'll be amazed at what a difference that can make.
  • MarkX

    Posts: 101

    Nov 11, 2007 6:47 AM GMT
    When I first realized I was gay (college freshman), I was environed with gay men whose behavior was so nasty and shallow that I barred the closet dorr shut merely to not be associated with them.

    Since then, I've been blessed to attract quality people and had those early stereotypes blasted. I love the gays.
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    Nov 11, 2007 6:52 AM GMT
    JaxCoPrinceGiven we're all gay men and have drama, period, be it about the things in the real world, such as, keeping bills paid, keeping your act/image together, or, the typical, silly, childish type of drama, such as playing games, stringing others along, getting caught up in the he/she say mess.


    <<---- Drama free, by the way...

    JaxCoPrinceAnd you know that familiar saying...Drama only comes to those who go looking for it. And that is SOOO true.


    Actually, not always... sometimes it sneaks up on you when you're minding your own damned business and slaps you upside the head. And that's when you either acknowledge it and deal, or walk away...

    I remember a time years ago, back in my early 20s, when I felt some of the same things you're expressing here... and I hate to sound cliche but, for me it became much easier to see this kind of behavior coming as I got older... and it became easier for me to figure out who I wanted around me, too... and now that I'm 45, I definitely pick and choose who I associate with very carefully and as a result, there's no drama and I can trust everyone in my inner circle implicitly.
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    Nov 11, 2007 9:23 AM GMT
    Pretty much sums it up.
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    Nov 11, 2007 2:43 PM GMT
    Personally, I'm lucky to have some very good gay male friends - these are guys who are there for me without question - supportive, fun, real. Yeah, I've met some of the guys you describe in your post, but I've met many straight people who could also be such described. Is it wrong to be a gay man who doesn't like other gay men? In the generalization of it, I'd say yes. To dissociate yourself and generalize all other gay men in such a negative light is unfair and closed-minded. And while it might serve as a safety net of sorts, it's really doing you a disservice in denying yourself comaraderie and relationships from people who can relate so closely to your own life experiences. Keep your eyes and mind open, if you let it happen and want it to, you'll find there are some great guys out there who are looking for you, too.
  • DiverScience

    Posts: 1426

    Nov 11, 2007 3:35 PM GMT
    I think that's stupid.

    There, I said it.

    If you hate people with drama, hate people with drama. But you can no more generalize to all gay men having drama and being shallow and vain than you can say that all women are clothes obsessed and hopeless with cars.

    *You're* gay. Do *you* do all these things you hate? If not, your hypothesis is incorrect. If so, then maybe the problem isn't "gay men" it's you being unhappy with yourself and projecting.

    Either way, not liking gay men is as stupid as not liking women, or all firefighters, or everyone with black hair.
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    Nov 11, 2007 5:25 PM GMT
    TOTALLY unacceptable, buddy! You CANNOT hate your own kind, point blank period! You should love them all and i mean the vain, obnoxious, bitter,self centered because these are unsavory traits present in every person gay, straight, whatever. And believe it or not, just because someone is a little vain sometime doesn't mean they are that way in general.
    Geez, some of these queens out here. I'm glad they are perfect and never want to f&%k a stranger, never think they are the best looking in the room, are never bitchy (as if) and they can judge people just because they happen to have it together at the same time another doesn't.
    Nobody is perfect. Don't descriminate. I used to rule out queens who carry man purses, stir their drink too much, and switch when they walk. One asked me out and i decided, why not? I had the best time with that lil queen. You know, my cell phone was itching my leg and so he put it in his purse for me, conveniant. And, the sex, two dates later ofcourse, was really, wow.
    He turns totally masc when he gets into sex, groaned really deep and had a vice grip bear hug, mmmm. Anyway, had i ruled him out, i'd never have gotten an oppurtunity to see that other side that was more to my liking anyway. But all said, i like my queeny friends, and my bitchy friends. It's funny to watch them sometimes and even better when you catch them on the days they aren't so bitchy and learn that people have more than just one trait.
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    Nov 11, 2007 5:46 PM GMT
    There are bad apples in every basket. I agree with most of the comments posted so far.

    You share a common view of how we as the tribe are perceived. Just because we are all gay, doesn't necessarily mean that we can play together in harmony.

    How I wish that could be the case, but in reality, it isn't.

    What I propose is buddy body bonding. WHen we think we have met the right group of guys, say in a gay sports bar setting, we just go up, introduce ourselves, by extending the right hand to the hunk, and letting the left give him a firm hairy muscle hug.

    It breaks the ice every time.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 11, 2007 6:08 PM GMT
    It is a human thing, women do the same damn thing to men and other women. Hetrosexuals do the same thing. Gay men are no different then anyone else.

    Chucky has some wisedom behind what he writes. Don't just look at the guys chisled chest, read the profile too. Read bewteen the lines and don't assume that you will find your life long partner on this site.

    There is a percentage of guys here, gay or straight that prefer a mirror for a partner. It is just a reality. For many, it is a mission to find Mr. Perfect (Body, Mind, Personality and Finacially) The truth of the matter is that they will be single for a very very long time.

    I have been on this site for over a year, Many VGL guys are still single and they claim to be looking for a relationship.

    So my suggestion to you is, get out in your local community or search some of the other dating sites that are available on line. The internet can be a very painful and lonely process if you are in search of the man of your dreams. Not everyone is honest about who they really are!