"Dump the MF/bitch" (or why gay relationships often don't last long?)

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 22, 2009 2:57 PM GMT
    Inspired by (most recently) this topic:

    a demeaning BF (then i met his mother)
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/529991

    Time and again people post about a (one!) problematic aspect of their relationship, and time and again there is a sizeable (if minority) voice that provides the knee-jerk reaction of "dump the bitch" - often without even really reading the OP (just the subject) let alone what unfolds in the topic discussion itself.

    No wonder so many relationships don't last long, but what could be surprising is that the breakups aren't so much the doing of the partner who (allegedly) screws up but the result of an intolerant partner who either doesn't understand that relationships take work or simply isn't willing to put work into maintaining a relationship (as if it is easier to just abandon it and move on to the next 3 week "relationship").

    Comments?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 22, 2009 3:09 PM GMT
    It's easier to for both parties to end the relationship when it's young if you know very well it will never work.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 22, 2009 4:01 PM GMT
    as the istigater of the "demeaning BF"

    I am not giving up without a fight...9months is a longtime (in the gay world in perth LOL)

    we both have alot too learn about each other.....

    i really didnt pay any heed to the guys who said dump him...they dont know everything about my relationship and i assume they are single because they are too fussy!

    i love my BF, though he has his flaws..so do i ( I fart alot..he dosent like it)

    thanks for shedding a different and more mature approach on the subject

    Craig
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 22, 2009 5:06 PM GMT
    Craigjd saidas the istigater of the "demeaning BF"

    I am not giving up without a fight...9months is a longtime (in the gay world in perth LOL)

    we both have alot too learn about each other.....

    i really didnt pay any heed to the guys who said dump him...they dont know everything about my relationship and i assume they are single because they are too fussy!

    i love my BF, though he has his flaws..so do i ( I fart alot..he dosent like it)

    thanks for shedding a different and more mature approach on the subject

    Craig


    Can't live without your dairy products? Huh.

    dumping, yeah because "...simply isn't willing to put work into maintaining a relationship". Some partners demands are not worth the exhaustive effort. The DUMP is a natural purge. If it ain't meant to be, it just isn't gonna happen.

    This is not just a gay thing. I sure you can fined just as many straight lonely hearts moaning about their breakup. DRAMA!!
  • jarhead5536

    Posts: 1348

    May 22, 2009 5:13 PM GMT
    Most of us, especially of generations born before the mid-seventies, arrive at adulthood as fundamentally damaged people. We have so much baggage and trauma from our childhoods (most especially the tortured relationships with our fathers that all men have but gay men have in spades) that healthy relationships are a struggle. The era in which we grew up did not provide positive role models, or examples of how to be in a functioning same sex relationship. Even in stable partnerships, we are constantly having to overcome long held insecurities, resentments and expectations of dissapointment or failure.

    I so envy the kids today. They took their boyfriends to the prom for God's sake. They have the same hangups that straight guys have, not the extra special ones that we older gay guys do...
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 22, 2009 5:21 PM GMT
    jarhead5536 saidMost of us, especially of generations born before the mid-seventies, arrive at adulthood as fundamentally damaged people. We have so much baggage and trauma from our childhoods (most especially the tortured relationships with our fathers that all men have but gay men have in spades) that healthy relationships are a struggle. The era in which we grew up did not provide positive role models, or examples of how to be in a functioning same sex relationship. Even in stable partnerships, we are constantly having to overcome long held insecurities, resentments and expectations of dissapointment or failure.

    I so envy the kids today. They took their boyfriends to the prom for God's sake. They have the same hangups that straight guys have, not the extra special ones that we older gay guys do...


    Excellent point!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 22, 2009 5:28 PM GMT
    I guess the one thing that we have is that we don't have to necessarily (though can voluntarily!) conform to the straight relationship model (aka two point four kids, and home in front of the tv). While that has its advantages in many aspects, and probably much more flexibility than being "trapped" in what is expected of you... it also means that many aspects of a relationship need to be negotiated. Sometimes you can be lucky, sometimes not in terms of matching your expectations, but given the much wider flexibility whatever you want to get out of your relationship needs real communication and effort. Not an easy task ... And not helped by many people not being really easy talking honestly about what their expectations are and what they want to get out of a relationship...
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 22, 2009 6:23 PM GMT
    Craigjd.

    You are the one who chose to air your dirty laundry on the internet.
    So don't get your jock strap in a bunch, when the committee is merely responding to your post.
    It was you who described the very disrespectful and demeaning nature of your bf directed towards you other wise we would have never known.
    You should print out the responses and give them to your BF. I wonder how he would feel about that!
    So you have chosen to live with the way your are treated, so STOP complaining about it.
    If you like it Love IT!

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 22, 2009 6:36 PM GMT
    No wonder so many relationships don't last long, but what could be surprising is that the breakups aren't so much the doing of the partner who (allegedly) screws up but the result of an intolerant partner who either doesn't understand that relationships take work or simply isn't willing to put work into maintaining a relationship (as if it is easier to just abandon it and move on to the next 3 week "relationship").

    I sincerely believe people could try harder. Too bad, actually.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 22, 2009 6:38 PM GMT
    As one of the people who said 'Dump the mother fucker already,' I'd like to clarify why.

    Based on what was written, I can't see the relationship as being particularly healthy. It's one thing for your boyfriend to see your flaws and laugh with you at them; having been in a three-year relationship where we could laugh at each other and know that we were coming at it from love, I get that. (My relationship ended for reasons that had nothing to do with the respect we had for each other; and anyway, it's a bit facile to say gay relationships end because of a 'knee-jerk' rush to ending it. Gay relationships end because two people reach an impasse, but that doesn't constitute failure.)

    But to say your boyfriend 'demeans' you is to say that he makes you feel bad about you being yourself. Sure, no one is perfect, but if he's putting you down to make himself feel better-- or for any other reason -- then he's not really showing you the respect you deserve from him, and you are not showing yourself the respect you deserve by tolerating it.

    Maybe it's something you can work through-- I suggest couple's counseling if you want to do that. But really, someone who says they love you should not ever demean you; they should support you, build you up when you're down and love you and laugh with you at all the silly little flaws that we all have and make us human.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 22, 2009 6:43 PM GMT
    Well said Gans!icon_biggrin.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 22, 2009 7:56 PM GMT
    gansevoort_market> to say your boyfriend 'demeans' you is to say that he makes you feel bad about you being yourself

    Maybe you (and Ducky and others) latched on too much to the word "demeans", but that wasn't the impression I got from Craigjd. But he already has a whole topic devoted to that so I don't really want to delve into that again here.

    As I said, that wasn't the only topic which made me enter this one, just the latest. Every month there is one (or more) such topics and it seems like - almost regardless of the specifics - there is always a chorus of "dump him" from some corners.

    Sure, there have been a few no brainers, but for each "my bf now only beats me once a week, should I stay?" there's also the "my bf never puts down the toilet seat" (or equivalent) topic - and still there's a chorus of "dump him" because, you know, this could be a sign of bad things to come, etc.

    Yeah, maybe I'm exaggerating a bit there, but I'm not motivated enough to go back and review all these topics and categorize the responses (but I'm sure there's a thesis in that for someone).

    Still, my overall impression is that there is an undercurrent of just throwing in the towel rather than trying to fix things, and that there is a certain level of societal/cultural support for doing so.

    Some relationships should be ended and some are worth maintaining. I guess it concerns me how quickly some people jump to the "dump him" response even from a brief (and necessarily one-sided) description of a (one!) problem.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 22, 2009 8:20 PM GMT
    As Ann Landers (or was it Dear Abby?) used to say "will you be better off with or without him?" Guys ought to think things through and not act on the spur of anger.
    I agree with caesarea, relationships are worth building and worth working on. Life together requires a lot of allowances and compromises on the part of both.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 22, 2009 8:25 PM GMT
    It's been a long time since I have read something so convoluted.
    Craig was very clear in what he said. His post was not an excerpt from the Di Vinci Code there was not hidden messages to be deciphered. JESUS!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 22, 2009 8:27 PM GMT
    Before you go trying to call me out perhaps you should ACTUALLY read what I wrote in Craig's original post.
    Until then "GET OFF MY DRESS"!icon_mad.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 22, 2009 8:46 PM GMT
    Ducky45 saidBefore you go trying to call me out perhaps you should ACTUALLY read what I wrote in Craig's original post.
    Until then "GET OFF MY DRESS"!icon_mad.gif


    Agreed. In the original post, Craig said that his boyfriend talked to him as though he was stupid, that his boyfriend "use[d] sarcasm or tone to make people feel bad." That, to me, is grounds for being dumped. If you respect me, you treat me as an equal-- period, end of story. I'd rather be alone and love myself than let generalizations about gay relationships being fickle scare me into accepting a relationship that does not acknowledge my self-worth and makes me feel bad about myself.

    For the sake of comparison, I'd also like to point out that in the heterosexual world one of the first signs of domestic abuse committed against women is a partner that demeans her-- that insults her intelligence and slowly breaks down her self-confidence so she believes the insults to be true. I'd be willing to wager that if your best girlfriend was in a relationship with a guy who made her feel stupid, you'd be inclined to think he could eventually become abusive-- or at least that your friend might not be getting the respect she deserved from a chauvinist asshole.

    Now, I know gay relationships are in some ways different, but sexuality does not automatically override established psychological patterns. I am not suggesting that Craig's boyfriend is, or ever will become, abusive, but I think it's worth noting the behaviours that we tolerate, what they symbolize, how they can affect people's beliefs about themselves, and how we think about the similarities and differences between gay male and heterosexual relationships. Psychological abuse and domestic violence do not exist solely in the heterosexual world and guys who think it's OK to make their partners feel bad about themselves are at the top my list of Assholes Who Might Think It's OK to Hurt The People They Claim To Love.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 22, 2009 8:57 PM GMT
    Random thoughts...

    1. Hombrehombre said, "Some partners' demands are not worth the exhaustive effort. The DUMP is a natural purge. If it ain't meant to be, it just isn't gonna happen." I agree 200%. I'd like to add that some partners' screw-ups aren't worth the exhaustive effort. As the adage says, "Quit while you're ahead." It pays to know--as early as possible--when you're with a bitch that you need to quit.

    2. I am of the opinion that too many gay men treat relationships like marriages. It's just a relationship, for goodness sake! Are you married? Do you have kids together? I really don't understand why some gay folks act as if a 12-month relationship is tantamount to a marriage. I might be wrong, but in my eyes the two are significantly different.

    If, say, a 9-month relationship is bringing you more grief than joy, and you've done everything reasonable to make it work, fighting it sounds foolhardy to me. But I'm one of the happy single ones. icon_smile.gif

    3. I've seen my share of gay relationships that lasted too long. The people involved would have emerged better off had they dumped the MF's.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 22, 2009 9:04 PM GMT
    Caesarea4 saidInspired by (most recently) this topic:

    a demeaning BF (then i met his mother)
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/529991

    No wonder so many relationships don't last long, but what could be surprising is that the breakups aren't so much the doing of the partner who (allegedly) screws up but the result of an intolerant partner who either doesn't understand that relationships take work or simply isn't willing to put work into maintaining a relationship (as if it is easier to just abandon it and move on to the next 3 week "relationship").

    Comments?


    Hmmm. I'd be surprised if that were the case. Several years ago I broke up with my last boyfriend (a white guy) because, among other things, he tried to sleep with every black guy from San Diego to Staten Island. icon_lol.gif Was I being intolerant? Should I have I tried to work things out with him?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 22, 2009 9:21 PM GMT
    To CraigJD: I just read your OP. You're more patient than I am. My parents adored me and taught me to accept nothing less than respectful treatment from others. If I were in your shoes, he'd be gone. I don't do abusive relationships. So, the question is--why are YOU accepting his abuse?

    Has your abusive boyfriend ever seen a therapist? He sounds as though he sorely needs one--for his own good.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 22, 2009 9:40 PM GMT
    Ducky45 saidCraigjd.

    You are the one who chose to air your dirty laundry on the internet.
    So don't get your jock strap in a bunch, when the committee is merely responding to your post.
    It was you who described the very disrespectful and demeaning nature of your bf directed towards you other wise we would have never known.
    You should print out the responses and give them to your BF. I wonder how he would feel about that!
    So you have chosen to live with the way your are treated, so STOP complaining about it.
    If you like it Love IT!



    yep i did air my dirty laundry but all i wanted was advice...my jockstrap isnt in a bunch..i am the most chilled out guy you could meet......
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 22, 2009 10:15 PM GMT
    i think i have had enough advice guys...thanks, some of it was great!

    keep well.

    Craig
    x
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 22, 2009 11:32 PM GMT
    Dump the MF makes sense if it's raining men and prince charming is always around the corner.

    "There are billions of people in the world"
    "Folks are replaceable"

    Even when my ex is a jerk, there's always something about him that I won't find anywhere else. It's unlikely I'm gonna have an opera singer boyfriend again. Then, the next date comes and says "what is it?" when I say "I like Bach", and I realize what I have lost.

    It takes a long celibate hiatus until I find someone nice again, but I wonder if I would be more likely to dump people if it were raining men, or if I were suffering from some optimistic mental disorder.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 23, 2009 12:39 AM GMT
    BlkMuscleGent saidHmmm. I'd be surprised if that were the case. Several years ago I broke up with my last boyfriend (a white guy) because, among other things, he tried to sleep with every black guy from San Diego to Staten Island. icon_lol.gif Was I being intolerant? Should I have I tried to work things out with him?

    But hang on your taking it to the extreme there to make a point that can't be argued..

    No you shouldn't stay with a cheating bastard and you'd be a fool if you did..

    Nor should you stay with a man who is knowingly belligerent towards his partner..

    Nor should you stay with a man who beats his partner..

    I mean they are all extremes and they aren't the most common reason why relationships fail.. hell they are rare as hens teeth or at least so in my experience

    its the small shit, the stuff that can be changed, the things that with a little effort and care can be made good and stronger.. its the stuff you overcome in a good relationship..

    but, I don't think the problem is so much that we don't maintain relationships, its that everyone is so desperate to just be in a relationship that they get into a relationship with anyone just so they can say they are in a relationship, otherwise there would be an innate desire to work together to fix things, they will be willing to work hard for each other..

    Other times the desire will be there but how wont be, how to fix things, how to work together, how to over look these things.. they have to be learnt.

    Also, posting online about problems, its a recipe for disaster, you've a bunch of people who don't understand you, your investment in something, your desire and then those people who just plain don't want to see anyone happier then they are..

    Of course you then get people who actually understand what a relationship really takes and will give good honest advice that will be useful, unfortunately people who truly understand a relationship, what it takes to build one, maintain it and give it up are rare and most of the posts aren't from these people.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 23, 2009 12:59 AM GMT
    Caesarea4 saidInspired by (most recently) this topic:

    a demeaning BF (then i met his mother)
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/529991

    Time and again people post about a (one!) problematic aspect of their relationship, and time and again there is a sizeable (if minority) voice that provides the knee-jerk reaction of "dump the bitch" - often without even really reading the OP (just the subject) let alone what unfolds in the topic discussion itself.

    No wonder so many relationships don't last long, but what could be surprising is that the breakups aren't so much the doing of the partner who (allegedly) screws up but the result of an intolerant partner who either doesn't understand that relationships take work or simply isn't willing to put work into maintaining a relationship (as if it is easier to just abandon it and move on to the next 3 week "relationship").

    Comments?


    Understand, a lot of these folks (pictureless, not out, self-loathing, fucked up by false belief systems, low esteem, on the down low) are way fucked up before they get into any relationship. They're dysfunctional from the get-go, and there's often no hope of changing them in the long, or short, order.

    As a general rule, good relationships are magic. They just work; on auto. Anyone that tells you a relationship has to be a survival camp is nuts. In a world of 7 BILLION folks, if you encounter someone you don't hit it off with it's downright stupid to invest time, emotion, money, into someone that doesn't work. We don't owe others happiness. We owe ourselves happiness. In a proper relationship, everything flows

    A smart person knows when to cut their losses. Only a fool stays in the game when it's a bad investment.

    It's easy to try to think about saving the world, or a person, but, lots of times, they have no interest in changing. There are lots of different folks in the world, and good relationship aren't forced, nor do they require hard work (that's bullshit if you think they do), they just are "magic."

    There are some folks so desperate to be in a "relationship" that they take the bottom of the barrel, at all costs; that's stupidity.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    May 23, 2009 2:05 AM GMT
    BlkMuscleGent> I am of the opinion that too many gay men treat relationships like marriages. It's just a relationship, for goodness sake! Are you married? Do you have kids together? I really don't understand why some gay folks act as if a 12-month relationship is tantamount to a marriage.

    So is there also a difference between the marriage of a straight couple after 12 YEARS as opposed to a straight couple that was only married 12 MONTHS ago?

    Is the straight couple of 12 MONTHS with a kid more married that a straight couple of 12 YEARS without kids?


    BMG> If, say, a 9-month relationship is bringing you more grief than joy, and you've done everything reasonable to make it work, fighting it sounds foolhardy to me.

    Agreed. But all too often - and this is the point - people do nothing to fix it and just leave because they can.


    lilTanker> its the small shit, the stuff that can be changed, the things that with a little effort and care can be made good and stronger.. its the stuff you overcome in a good relationship..

    Exactly. And obviously there are also some gray areas which can be debated.


    LT> everyone is so desperate to just be in a relationship that they get into a relationship with anyone just so they can say they are in a relationship

    I do know some people who are desperate to be in a relationship. Some because they are young and don't understand why it hasn't happened yet (we've seen plenty of those topics) and some because they are old and it hasn't happened yet. So I think I'm disagreeing with you with regards to the word "everyone".

    Moreso part of what I'm arguing in this topic is that the cultural background radiation is the opposite, to "dump the bitch" even when its just the small stuff.

    LT> people who just plain don't want to see anyone happier then they are..

    Hmmmm.....


    chuckystud> As a general rule, good relationships are magic

    Sounds like a fairy tale, yet any relationship is bound to have some bad tricks (oh, that's too strong) and its ups and downs. The problem, as I see it, is that some people hit the first down and walk - often with the encouragment of (some of) their peers.