Video: Conservative radio hosts gets waterboarded. "That is absolutely torture. Absolutely!".

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    May 23, 2009 9:12 PM GMT
    Chicago radio host Erich "Mancow" Muller decided he'd get himself waterboarded to prove the technique wasn't torture.

    It didn't turn out that way.



    "I wanted to prove it wasn't torture," Mancow said. "They cut off our heads, we put water on their face...I got voted to do this but I really thought 'I'm going to laugh this off.' "

    "It is way worse than I thought it would be, and that's no joke," Mancow told listeners. "It is such an odd feeling to have water poured down your nose with your head back...It was instantaneous...and I don't want to say this: absolutely torture."

    "Absolutely. I mean that's drowning," he added later. "It is the feeling of drowning."

    "If I knew it was gonna be this bad, I would not have done it," he said.
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    May 23, 2009 11:51 PM GMT
    Now if we could only get that shit sack Hannity to go through with it.icon_lol.gif
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    May 24, 2009 12:04 AM GMT
    They should do this at carnivals ...a buck a waterboarding.... let people try it out ... icon_eek.gif...end of debate!
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    May 24, 2009 12:05 AM GMT
    Can we do it to Rush Limbaugh?

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    May 24, 2009 12:11 AM GMT
    As a swimmer/diver/water polo player I can tell you that for 14 seconds you can just exhale slowly through your nose while they're pouring the water. Lots of regular healthy people can hold their breath a lot longer than 14 seconds. Test yourself. No need for all the theatrics. The guy was a wimp - he got up and halted the process almost immediately, and started squawking like a 3 yr. old girl. Looks like a sham to me.
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    May 24, 2009 12:13 AM GMT
    Jockbod48 saidAs a swimmer/diver/water polo player I can tell you that for 14 seconds you can just exhale slowly through your nose while they're pouring the water. Lots of regular healthy people can hold their breath a lot longer than 14 seconds. Test yourself. No need for all the theatrics. The guy was a wimp - he got up and halted the process almost immediately, and started squawking like a 3 yr. old girl. Looks like a sham to me.


    No I really don´t think it was, and I think you´re being unfair. He didn´t want to admit that it was torture and had a sudden volte face. Perhaps he could have lasted longer if he had blown air out... perhaps not. I´m just glad that he changed his mind. Now we just need to do Cheney and Limbaugh and the debate would be over.
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    May 24, 2009 12:23 AM GMT
    The thing is, it's easy to sit back and say it's not torture until it's being done to you. It sure doesn't look pleasant.

    I don't think we'll see Hannity or Limbaugh subjecting themselves to this.
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    May 24, 2009 12:28 AM GMT
    My buddies and I just did some tests here - same way as in the film. Not saying it was pleasant - but really - it wasn't bad - if you just stayed calm - and did not sniff the water in. I lasted 42 seconds - some of the other guys went up to a minute.

    Not saying this was fun - but seriously - there must be something more to it - something more sinister that we're not aware of. Try it - there is kind of a mess with the water all over your shirt - but really - it is just water - not piss - not boiling water - just water.
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    May 24, 2009 12:37 AM GMT
    ok i dont think anyone will ever be able to simulate what it's really like. I keep seeing these videos and the person is in a controlled environment and at work, so they're getting paid...

    now unless you're a war vet i dont think any of us could fathom what it would be like to be a P.O.W. and be beaten, not given proper food, never knowing if you'll be alive for longer then another minute. then after all that they tie you down and put a towel on your face and pour water down your face . .. i think all that would be going through your head would be that you're dieing . .

    but yeah thats how i think about that
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    May 24, 2009 12:41 AM GMT
    Jockbod48 saidMy buddies and I just did some tests here - same way as in the film. Not saying it was pleasant - but really - it wasn't bad - if you just stayed calm - and did not sniff the water in. I lasted 42 seconds - some of the other guys went up to a minute.

    Not saying this was fun - but seriously - there must be something more to it - something more sinister that we're not aware of. Try it - there is kind of a mess with the water all over your shirt - but really - it is just water - not piss - not boiling water - just water.


    With respect.. I think you need to experience it from a professional. I´m also hoping that this is not the precursor to a "it´s not really torture" argument.
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    May 24, 2009 12:44 AM GMT
    Jockbod48 said
    Not saying this was fun - but seriously - there must be something more to it - something more sinister that we're not aware of. Try it - there is kind of a mess with the water all over your shirt - but really - it is just water - not piss - not boiling water - just water.


    Yeah, there's something more to it - you're in jail, your interrogators are saying 'tell us the information!' and stressing you out and making you afraid. They are saying awful things to you. They are telling you that you are going to die. You're thinking of your family. Your state of mind is completely altered. That's VERY different from a couple of mates trying to prove to each other it's nothing.

    I hope you can see that.
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    May 24, 2009 12:55 AM GMT
    Just because waterboarding is survivable does not make it any less torture. The whole point is inducing fear of death, and when it's happening in some prison by belligerent guards it is far different than in the safety of some studio where the victim knows they are going to be ok. Psychological torture can be just as bad or worse than physical torture, and in my opinion anyone supporting water-boarding may as well support the rack.

    It's so sad that Americans are even having this debate. Torture is wrong, period, and against everything we stand for. If we allow torture by our own government or through rendition we are no better than Saddam or any other tyrant. It doesn't matter if every once and a while torture reveals important information. There are some moral sacrifices not worth making for our security. Even if sometimes it may save lives, if we torture we may as well tear down the damn Statue of Liberty right now.
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    May 24, 2009 1:02 AM GMT
    bsubioguy saidIt's so sad that Americans are even having this debate. Torture is wrong, period, and against everything we stand for. If we allow torture by our own government or through rendition we are no better than Saddam or any other tyrant. It doesn't matter if every once and a while torture reveals important information. There are some moral sacrifices not worth making for our security. Even if sometimes it may save lives, if we torture we may as well tear down the damn Statue of Liberty right now.


    It is simply the terrorists´ biggest victory to date. The deaths of American citizens was a terrible thing, but it does not undermine American civilization. That happens when the ideals of democracy etc are redefined and subverted. The terrorists´ main weapon is their ability to make America (the west) undermine itself.

    At least some "reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"
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    May 24, 2009 1:19 AM GMT
    These guys get off so easy .. they get a few seconds of it and can get up at any time. Hardly the many times for hours that the suspects get. icon_mad.gif The likes of cheney and Hannity need to try real waterboarding in captivity before they will stop insisting that it is not torture.
  • OutdoorAdvent...

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    May 24, 2009 1:24 AM GMT
    It's troubling, to say the least, that there is presently a debate in America about whether or not it is O.K. to torture people.
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    May 24, 2009 1:28 AM GMT
    Here are a few articles on waterboarding going back to the inquisition:

    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=15886834

    also

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WaterboardingWaterboarding is a form of torture that consists of immobilizing the victim on his or her back with the head inclined downwards, and then pouring water over the face and into the breathing passages. By forced suffocation and inhalation of water, the subject experiences drowning and is caused to believe they are about to die. It is considered a form of torture by legal experts, politicians, war veterans, medical experts in the treatment of torture victims, intelligence officials, military judges, and human rights organizations. As early as the Spanish Inquisition it was used for interrogation purposes, to punish and intimidate, and to force confessions
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    May 24, 2009 1:57 AM GMT
    bsubioguy saidJust because waterboarding is survivable does not make it any less torture. The whole point is inducing fear of death, and when it's happening in some prison by belligerent guards it is far different than in the safety of some studio where the victim knows they are going to be ok. Psychological torture can be just as bad or worse than physical torture, and in my opinion anyone supporting water-boarding may as well support the rack.

    It's so sad that Americans are even having this debate. Torture is wrong, period, and against everything we stand for. If we allow torture by our own government or through rendition we are no better than Saddam or any other tyrant. It doesn't matter if every once and a while torture reveals important information. There are some moral sacrifices not worth making for our security. Even if sometimes it may save lives, if we torture we may as well tear down the damn Statue of Liberty right now.


    By the way, people can die from waterboarding. If someone has a heart condition or if you freak them out too much they will go into cardiac arrest. They should post a sign at the carnivale attraction: do not ride this ride if you have a heart condition or suspect that you may be pregnant :-)
  • dantoujours

    Posts: 378

    May 24, 2009 2:27 AM GMT
    Americans executed Japanese for doing this after WWII. It's troubling that we are even debating this today. It show how far the U.S. has lost its way.

    One such set of questions relates to "waterboarding."

    That term is used to describe several interrogation techniques. The victim may be immersed in water, have water forced into the nose and mouth, or have water poured onto material placed over the face so that the liquid is inhaled or swallowed. The media usually characterize the practice as "simulated drowning." That's incorrect. To be effective, waterboarding is usually real drowning that simulates death. That is,

    the victim experiences the sensations of drowning: struggle, panic, breath-holding, swallowing, vomiting, taking water into the lungs and, eventually, the same feeling of not being able to breathe that one experiences after being punched in the gut. The main difference is that the drowning process is halted. According to those who have studied waterboarding's effects, it can cause severe psychological trauma, such as panic attacks, for years.

    The United States knows quite a bit about waterboarding. The U.S. government -- whether acting alone before domestic courts, commissions and courts-martial or as part of the world community -- has not only condemned the use of water torture but has severely punished those who applied it.

    After World War II, we convicted several Japanese soldiers for waterboarding American and Allied prisoners of war. At the trial of his captors, then-Lt. Chase J. Nielsen, one of the 1942 Army Air Forces officers who flew in the Doolittle Raid and was captured by the Japanese, testified: "I was given several types of torture. . . . I was given what they call the water cure." He was asked what he felt when the Japanese soldiers poured the water. "Well, I felt more or less like I was drowning," he replied, "just gasping between life and death."

    Nielsen's experience was not unique. Nor was the prosecution of his captors.


    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/02/AR2007110201170.html
  • bigguysf

    Posts: 329

    May 24, 2009 2:44 AM GMT
    I don't think this guy knows what torture really is, like most of us. And he caved in way to easily with no resistance.
    That said, I'm glad he could admit he was wrong.
  • metalxracr

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    May 24, 2009 2:46 AM GMT
    Caslon10750 saidThey should do this at carnivals ...a buck a waterboarding.... let people try it out ... icon_eek.gif...end of debate!


    that is a wonderful idea!!
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    May 24, 2009 3:30 AM GMT
    Lostboy said

    It is simply the terrorists´ biggest victory to date. The deaths of American citizens was a terrible thing, but it does not undermine American civilization. That happens when the ideals of democracy etc are redefined and subverted. The terrorists´ main weapon is their ability to make America (the west) undermine itself.

    At least some "reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"


    This is so true.

    I don't understand how Bush and Cheney thought they were upholding American ideals by going the whole 'any means necessary' route. To subvert freedom and truth for false victory. It's just not American to do that! And for what? To protect the interests of a few rich corporate barons?

    (I won't even touch all the quasi-religious stuff wrapped up in it.)

    It's just sad.
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    May 24, 2009 3:39 AM GMT
    Jockbod48 saidthere must be something more to it - something more sinister that we're not aware of.


    icon_eek.gif Yes. Torcherers' victims don't get to choose when it stops. Try it that way and get back to us.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    May 24, 2009 11:44 AM GMT
    The thing that bothers me most is that this DOLT goes by the name MANCOW icon_rolleyes.gif

    That America is even discussing this is an embarrassment
    Waterboarding was implemented by the Spanish Inquisition
    and has been used ever since
    We knew this and THAT'S WHY the Marine's started training their men and women against it
    and why we lobbied to end it's use in the Geneva conventions
    (And why the Bushies first sought to say that the Geneva conventions were "quaint" and outdated) That's covering your ARSE right George?

    Any debate that this is NOT torture makes me sick
    and endangers our men and women in the future