Is it acceptable, in your opinion, to slam others who are obese (or engage in other unhealthy behaviors)?

  • InsatiableBlo...

    Posts: 442

    May 26, 2009 7:02 AM GMT
    Does it help them try to improve themselves by making them feel bad about themselves? Sadly Ive heard this, surely there is a better way to promote a healthy lifestyle.
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    May 26, 2009 1:50 PM GMT
    I would have to say absolutely not! I personally find the behavior hypocritical considering how those in the mainstream find our lives or I life styles to unhealthy. I'm not saying that the two or are the same. But I have found that most people NOT all who are in this situation are in it due to social or psychological reasons. I am also a firm believer that you not attack the person by belittling them or shaming them. How did that make you feel when people did that to you for being gay? Different circumstance same effect.

    All I know I helped a friend lose 60 pounds 10 years ago and not one time did I call her any of the names I have read batted about on this site which I think is terrible. I did tell her that you have to stop hating your self and hate the fat and that is not going to be easy it's going to hard. But the one thing that helped her was that for the first half I got rid of every scale in her house and forbid her to weigh herself and I told her we will focus on how your clothes fit will concentrate on inches first and it worked for her.

    This approach may not work for everyone but it worked for her and to date the weight has not come back. We did it with a positive approach.
    When she kept calling herself FAT A**, I told her if I hear you say that one more time I'm done. There are enough people out there calling you that I won't tolerate you doing that yourself. I can't tell how much it makes cringe when I read it here and there is no need to name name because you know who you are.

    Here is thing we all have things that we do that is unhealthy for us.
    Someone of us it's drugs, some of us it drinking, some of us it's this sick obsession with youth and muscles and which we go to great lengths to the point of putting our health at risk to maintain it.

    Isn't it our responsible to help those that need and want out help without judgment and persecution?

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    May 26, 2009 1:58 PM GMT
    Ducky45 saidI would have to say absolutely not! I personally find the behavior hypocritical considering how those in the mainstream find our lives or I life styles to unhealthy. I'm not saying that the two or are the same. But I have found that most people NOT all who are in this situation are in it due to social or psychological reasons. I am also a firm believer that you not attack the person by belittling them or shaming them. How did that make you feel when people did that to you for being gay? Different circumstance same effect.

    All I know I helped a friend lose 60 pounds 10 years ago and not one time did I call her any of the names I have read batted about on this site which I think is terrible. I did tell her that you have to stop hating your self and hate the fat and that is not going to be easy it's going to hard. But the one thing that helped her was that for the first half I got rid of every scale in her house and forbid her to weigh herself and I told her we will focus on how your clothes fit will concentrate on inches first and it worked for her.

    This approach may not work for everyone but it worked for her and to date the weight has not come back. We did it with a positive approach.
    When she kept calling herself FAT A**, I told her if I hear you say that one more time I'm done. There are enough people out there calling you that I won't tolerate you doing that yourself. I can't tell how much it makes cringe when I read it here and there is no need to name name because you know who you are.

    Here is thing we all have things that we do that is unhealthy for us.
    Someone of us it's drugs, some of us it drinking, some of us it's this sick obsession with youth and muscles and which we go to great lengths to the point of putting our health at risk to maintain it.

    Isn't it our responsible to help those that need and want out help without judgment and persecution?




    Let the church say AMEN!
  • SFNavigator

    Posts: 62

    May 26, 2009 1:59 PM GMT
    Never, they know what they look like, they know they are unhappy about it but, its like so many other things, alchol, drugs, relationship abuse, (verbal or physical). Until they are ready to change it, nothing is going to work- and unsolicated remarks and put downs are the last things those folks need to hear. Plus, it doesn't speak to well of the person saying or doing those things. I personally think they are just as miserable, except in a different way. Sometimes I think that old saying, "They have to hit rock bottom before they are willing to do anything about it" is true.
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    May 26, 2009 2:03 PM GMT
    My late partner smoked and drank too much, both of which he wanted to reduce. I thought I was helping him out, but one day he snapped at me that nagging him was not a good way to do it.

    I had to think about that for a while, because I truly have trouble recognizing the difference between support versus nagging. I didn't set out to nag or insult him, but evidently that's what I was doing.

    But then I'm not a professional counselor, and so I suggested we both visit one. Someone to help him with these 2 concerns, and to teach me what my ideal role was in this, too. He never agreed to it.

    Plus I guess everyone is different, and maybe for some a "tough love" approach would be best, or even intervention. For these reasons I don't try to play amateur psychologist anymore, but merely try to direct others to consult with professionals, who presumably will tailor an approach to the individual.
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    May 26, 2009 2:13 PM GMT
    No but i love da 50 million pound challenge commercialsicon_lol.gif
  • UncleverName

    Posts: 741

    May 26, 2009 3:02 PM GMT
    Some people actually do respond to slams/jabs. Others don't. I think the trick is to figure out which one the person you're trying to help responds to the best. Just like when trying to sell someone something, or convince them of an argument.

    Of course, starting off by slamming someone first to see if that works can seriously damage your ability to help them later on in any other fashion. Because they won't appreciate the fact that you slammed them to begin with, and won't want to hear what else you have to say.

    There's a fine line between telling the truth and being rude. You shouldn't lie to people, but you don't need to slap them in the face. For instance:

    "You're a fat ass, and you need to change." --> a slap in the face that they will not appreciate.

    "I'm concerned about your weight; your current weight and eating habits are keeping you from doing the things you want to do." --> still the truth, but not a slap in the face.
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    May 26, 2009 3:32 PM GMT
    I make fun of fat people all the time.

    i used to be fat. then i got tired of being that way so i changed. went from 180 to 140. and then gained 24 pounds of muscle and now at 164 with 10% body fat. now what? the US is the fattest nation. we need to change. break away from highly addictive fructose and everything else will b easy.
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    May 26, 2009 3:35 PM GMT
    I dont think so. Having been a former teacher, I think the reinforcement we are talking about is a vary vague line between firmness and personal insulting. Personal insulting, jabs, slams do nothing but undermine the self-esteem of the person( usually??). If they are overweight or obese, they probably already have some major jabs to their self-esteem without anyone saying a word. That kind of action is unnecessary(again usually/depends on the person) . On the other hand, being firm and assertive about staying healthy, getting exercise, nutrition is a different story. Being firm with someone doesnt have to involve personal insults, jabs, slams, or any slurs that incur a a further deficiency in someone's mental image of themselves. Unfortunately for most of us , it is a little to hard to draw or see that line.



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    May 26, 2009 3:52 PM GMT
    SantosMadrid saidI make fun of fat people all the time.

    i used to be fat. then i got tired of being that way so i changed. went from 180 to 140. and then gained 24 pounds of muscle and now at 164 with 10% body fat. now what? the US is the fattest nation. we need to change. break away from highly addictive fructose and everything else will b easy.

    I wouldn't make fun, but I do admit to becoming exasperated at times. My worst pet peeve is the overweight people who commandeer the electric shopping carts at the supermarket or Target, denying them to other people.

    They manage to walk from the parking lot to the store entrance well enough, then take an electric cart. I know obesity can be a disability, too, but it's hard for me not to see it as a self-inflicted wound, as we'd have said in the Army.

    This really hit home for me one day, when my partner & I took a crippled friend to the supermarket as we regularly do. He recently lost a leg to illness, and hasn't yet been able to reliably walk with a prothesis. So I pushed him into the store in his wheelchair.

    And there were no electric carts available for him, so we took turns pushing him around, while bringing a separate grocery cart for him. And we encountered those electric carts in the aisles, every one of them ridden by an obesely fat person, whose asses spilled over the seats. And no canes along, evidently just needing to give their bloated legs a rest.

    Well, I'm sorry, but that's not good enough for me. If you make yourself too fat to walk comfortably, then lose some damn weight. Don't penalize some other innocently disabled person because you lack self-control & will power.

    And don't tell me about "genetic problems" and "thyroid issues" or any of these other cop-outs. Most medically-related obesity problems can be helped, and are actually quite rare, anyway. So don't give me this crap that you are an innocent victim.

    Psychological issues? Yes, these exist, but can also be addressed. So why haven't you done anything about it? And get the hell out of that electric cart so my 1-legged friend can use it, as was intended. End of rant.
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    May 26, 2009 3:58 PM GMT
    UncleverName saidSome people actually do respond to slams/jabs. Others don't. I think the trick is to figure out which one the person you're trying to help responds to the best. Just like when trying to sell someone something, or convince them of an argument.

    Of course, starting off by slamming someone first to see if that works can seriously damage your ability to help them later on in any other fashion. Because they won't appreciate the fact that you slammed them to begin with, and won't want to hear what else you have to say.

    There's a fine line between telling the truth and being rude. You shouldn't lie to people, but you don't need to slap them in the face. For instance:

    "You're a fat ass, and you need to change." --> a slap in the face that they will not appreciate.

    "I'm concerned about your weight; your current weight and eating habits are keeping you from doing the things you want to do." --> still the truth, but not a slap in the face.


    HOW RIDICULOUS. WHO SET YOU UP TO BE THE THERAPIST OF THE WORLD, WITH YOUR MORALLY SUPERIOR, POP-PSYCH, DR. PHIL SOFT-SPEAK?!.

    Get a fuckn life man.
  • Bunjamon

    Posts: 3161

    May 26, 2009 4:13 PM GMT
    "Slamming" other people really only reveals how insecure the slammer is about him or herself, and isn't a constructive way to help someone who has a problem.
  • Timbales

    Posts: 13993

    May 26, 2009 4:16 PM GMT
    Bunjamon said"Slamming" other people really only reveals how insecure the slammer is about him or herself, and isn't a constructive way to help someone who has a problem.


    wub.gif
  • dfrourke

    Posts: 1062

    May 26, 2009 4:17 PM GMT
    Although the US constitution entitles me to voice my opinion...I have found that personally attacking someone about what I believe they should have done or are doing in their lives doesn't usually promote change...especially if I don't have any sort of relationship or stake in the outcome...

    Everyone learns their lessons in their own time...and ironically those lessons continue to be repeated until learned...

    - David icon_wink.gif
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    May 26, 2009 4:22 PM GMT
    InsatiableBloom saidDoes it help them try to improve themselves by making them feel bad about themselves?


    No, it is not.
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    May 26, 2009 4:29 PM GMT
    Ducky45 saidI would have to say absolutely not! I personally find the behavior hypocritical considering how those in the mainstream find our lives or I life styles to unhealthy. I'm not saying that the two or are the same. But I have found that most people NOT all who are in this situation are in it due to social or psychological reasons. I am also a firm believer that you not attack the person by belittling them or shaming them. How did that make you feel when people did that to you for being gay? Different circumstance same effect.

    All I know I helped a friend lose 60 pounds 10 years ago and not one time did I call her any of the names I have read batted about on this site which I think is terrible. I did tell her that you have to stop hating your self and hate the fat and that is not going to be easy it's going to hard. But the one thing that helped her was that for the first half I got rid of every scale in her house and forbid her to weigh herself and I told her we will focus on how your clothes fit will concentrate on inches first and it worked for her.

    This approach may not work for everyone but it worked for her and to date the weight has not come back. We did it with a positive approach.
    When she kept calling herself FAT A**, I told her if I hear you say that one more time I'm done. There are enough people out there calling you that I won't tolerate you doing that yourself. I can't tell how much it makes cringe when I read it here and there is no need to name name because you know who you are.

    Here is thing we all have things that we do that is unhealthy for us.
    Someone of us it's drugs, some of us it drinking, some of us it's this sick obsession with youth and muscles and which we go to great lengths to the point of putting our health at risk to maintain it.

    Isn't it our responsible to help those that need and want out help without judgment and persecution?




    agreed completely!
    and to be completely honest... if you are a true bodybuilder, i mean really competing... then most of those guys do not have healthy bodies either... anything less then 5-7% bodyfat is not good for your body, and also the rollercoaster most of those guys put their bodies thru, in a year, is not healthy either.

    Your never going to get anywhere by making someone feel like a P.O.S. and instead your just going to keep them in that state. most guys i know working out now have used it as a good thing, trying to kick drug habits, bad eating habits, or just wanting to enjoy their life more... showing them that they can get more out of life is the big selling point, but you have to realize that with someone new to it, that it will take babysteps and jumping right into it full force would scare most out of it.
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    May 26, 2009 4:33 PM GMT
    MuscleToronto said
    UncleverName saidSome people actually do respond to slams/jabs. Others don't. I think the trick is to figure out which one the person you're trying to help responds to the best. Just like when trying to sell someone something, or convince them of an argument.

    Of course, starting off by slamming someone first to see if that works can seriously damage your ability to help them later on in any other fashion. Because they won't appreciate the fact that you slammed them to begin with, and won't want to hear what else you have to say.

    There's a fine line between telling the truth and being rude. You shouldn't lie to people, but you don't need to slap them in the face. For instance:

    "You're a fat ass, and you need to change." --> a slap in the face that they will not appreciate.

    "I'm concerned about your weight; your current weight and eating habits are keeping you from doing the things you want to do." --> still the truth, but not a slap in the face.


    HOW RIDICULOUS. WHO SET YOU UP TO BE THE THERAPIST OF THE WORLD, WITH YOUR MORALLY SUPERIOR, POP-PSYCH, DR. PHIL SOFT-SPEAK?!.

    Get a fuckn life man.


    Are you always this rude?
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    May 26, 2009 4:42 PM GMT
    SantosMadrid saidI make fun of fat people all the time.

    i used to be fat. then i got tired of being that way so i changed. went from 180 to 140. and then gained 24 pounds of muscle and now at 164 with 10% body fat. now what? the US is the fattest nation. we need to change. break away from highly addictive fructose and everything else will b easy.


    your an idiot and a hypocrite, and its self rightous idiots like yourself that make others feel better for your own good... you are now what you used to hate... congratulations
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    May 26, 2009 4:54 PM GMT
    I have mixed feelings about this. On a personal/one-on-one level I'd say no: the fat person likely knows their condition, knows they should lose the excess, and will be only further driven to a defeatist attitude if told they're fat (i.e., "what's the point of trying if I'm so hopeless"). Also, you'd likely not make fun of someone who publicly raises their chances of getting cancer via smoking but for some reason, public ridicule of fat people is acceptable. At least the fat person isn't harming you directly with their lifestyle choices...you cannot say the same for the smoker whose habit makes the air mroe carcinogenic. That said...

    I think at least in the US anyway, we've become waaaaaaaay too tolerate and accostomed to seeing obesity as just another thing, normalizing something which should not be. One only has to compare the US of 60 years ago with the US of 2009, image wise, to see that fat is the new norm and if we're honest, what we think is fine. (Which is why western Europeans can be so horrified by the sheer numbers of fatties in the US and why US citizens stick out so much when they visit Europe.) Again, I don't think ridicule is the way to go but we could stop offering people XXL clothing sizes, stop offering such magnanimous portions at restaurants, and make US cities more biker/walker friendly to dis-encourage being sedentary.

    2 cents.

    (As an aside, is it not odd that there are more gyms today than ever in the past and the images you see in popular media of fit to thin people, yet the reality of how the US looks so different?)
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    May 26, 2009 5:04 PM GMT
    I dont think that is the right approach, being a person that used to be over weight I would get really pissed off when people notifed me that I need to loose weight...the right approach is to motivate them in a good way. I dont encourage making anybody feel bad.
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    May 26, 2009 5:07 PM GMT
    Well obviously no one is advocating obese people wear potato sacks only that, by clothing manufacturers limiting the sizes it will discourage people from gaining weight unless they say want to solely shop at Big Lots (many European fashion houses already do this which is among other reasons why their products aren't sold, on the whole, in big box stores).

    As far as portions, no you don't have to eat everything on the plate (leaving aside the cultural/sociological/historical habit and reasons for doing so) but neither does a restaurant have to give you enough food for a family of five...this problem it must be said has more to do with, as common in the US, a confusing of quantity with quality (i.e. you get more food, leaving you stuffed, and you think you've had a "good" meal even though the meal may lack nutritional or aesthetic value, not to mention taste and is in fact not far above the level of refuse).

    As a formerly obese person, I sympathise with those who are struggling, BUT, I think we're far too tolerant of obesity in 2009.
  • InsatiableBlo...

    Posts: 442

    May 26, 2009 6:07 PM GMT
    As a quote from another forum another poster argues this....
    "If I provoke a NEGATIVE thought about smoking, or being a fat ass, and save even SINGLE life, I've done a VERY GOOD THING, no matter what you might think."

    Is calling them a fat ass really helpful??
  • UncleverName

    Posts: 741

    May 26, 2009 6:16 PM GMT
    MuscleToronto saidHOW RIDICULOUS. WHO SET YOU UP TO BE THE THERAPIST OF THE WORLD, WITH YOUR MORALLY SUPERIOR, POP-PSYCH, DR. PHIL SOFT-SPEAK?!.

    Get a fuckn life man.


    I actually figure what I said is just obvious, common sense. I'm not gonna successfully sell you a new car by telling you that your old car is crap and that you were an idiot for buying it. Doesn't matter if I'm right or not.

    I personally hate watching Dr. Phil, but not because he's wrong. It's because the stuff he says, when he's not sensationalizing stuff, is just obvious common sense.

    I mean, if someone is a fat ass and has to lose weight, what do either of you gain by you telling them that they are a fat-ass, in those or similar terms? How about another pseudo-conversation I've heard on here many times, in one form or another.

    OP: "I'm overweight. Can anyone make any suggestions to lose weight?"

    Response: "You're a huge fat ass! Eat less! Do more exercise! It's easy. Oh, and it's ok for me to call you a fat ass, because it's unhealthy of you to be so fat."

    The response is usually followed in one form or another with something along these lines: "I'm just being honest. The fact that you asked for help with your weight, indicating that you know you're fat, doesn't matter. I still need to point it out. For your benefit, not mine. I'm just trying to help. I'm trying to be straight with you. If you really want to lose weight, you won't mind me calling you a fat-ass. You're the one with the problem. No, I don't have a big ego. Telling the truth is what being a man is all about."

    How many lives have those conversations changed on here?
    If a person can't easily figure out on their own that eating less and exercising more will make them healthier, is pointing it out to them again and again and making them feel like shit at the same time going to make a difference? No.

    What's the definition of insanity? Trying the same thing over and over again, and expecting the outcome to be different. There are some people on here that keep posting saying that they can't lose weight. Hearing the same thing from those people over and over again is extremely frustrating, even to those of us that have managed to avoid giving advice.

    There are also those that continue to answer these types of posts, with insulting words and common, obvious advice that the OP already knows. What do either of these people gain from this?

    I personally think that anyone that feels the need to insult someone in order 'to help them' is looking for some kind of validation or ego stroking or something.

    Like I said in my first post, some people respond to negative comments. Others don't. If you actually want to help someone, and not validate yourself as right, you find out what works for the person you're trying to help. Anything else is just bullshit.
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    May 26, 2009 9:18 PM GMT
    Dear UnClever:

    Who put YOU in charge of making the world right? What makes you think a person with a fat ass needs you to tell them so, no matter how sugar coated your Dr. Phil speech might be.

    How about focusing on yourself and stop feeling so morally obligated to enlighten the world, bless your heart,
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    May 26, 2009 9:31 PM GMT
    MuscleToronto saidDear UnClever:

    Who put YOU in charge of making the world right? What makes you think a person with a fat ass needs you to tell them so, no matter how sugar coated your Dr. Phil speech might be.

    How about focusing on yourself and stop feeling so morally obligated to enlighten the world, bless your heart,


    I figure he'll delete that post after he comes down.