Obama urges Myanmar to release Aung Sang Suu Kyi --- Obama should be paying attention to civil rights in his own country!

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    May 27, 2009 8:34 AM GMT
    I am not interested in Obama worrying about other countries when he isnt doing anything here for gays yet.
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    May 27, 2009 2:23 PM GMT
    Caslon10901 saidI am not interested in Obama worrying about other countries when he isnt doing anything here for gays yet.


    Agreed: normally it´s at the end of a politician´s career that they start focusing on international issues, as they are so hated at home. Obama does need to do this or he will join the long line of people with fine words and no actions.
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    May 27, 2009 2:30 PM GMT
    He is already on that list NOW WHAT! Shall we impeach him!
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    May 27, 2009 2:54 PM GMT
    His agenda has been ambitious so far. But he hasn't done anything of note on GLBT issues and that is very disappointing.

    But there are so many other instances of Obama's human-rights-suckage that we should be talking about that simple inaction on behalf of GLBT rights.

    For example, we are currently holding Ibrahim Jessem, an Al-Jazera journalist, without evidence and with an Iraqi court ruling to that effect.

    The bar has been set incredibly low in this country. Where even Obama subscribes the the Bush-doctrine on Habius Corpus.

    Booo!
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    May 27, 2009 2:58 PM GMT
    MunchingZombie saidThe bar has been set incredibly low in this country. Where even Obama subscribes the the Bush-doctrine on Habius Corpus.Booo!


    Partly the country was so royally fucked over by Bush, his cohorts and neocon paranoia that the machine is badly broken. It´s hard to stop a ship as big as the USA and turn it around.

    Yes we can?

    I do hope so.
  • zakariahzol

    Posts: 2241

    May 27, 2009 3:22 PM GMT
    How about looking at his backyard on the unequality treatment for gay people? Let the Myanmar settle their own internal problem.
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    May 27, 2009 4:00 PM GMT
    Caslon10901 saidI am not interested in Obama worrying about other countries when he isnt doing anything here for gays yet.


    I think Obama has more important issues to worry about first. Gays actually do get all of the benefits of a union a normal traditional couple has, when they do the whole civil union thing. They just don't have the title, and so far MOST Americans, including Obama, view marriage as 1 man, 1 woman.

    If Obama puts all his energies into something as less important, as that, given all that is going on in the world today. rather than worrying about other countries that are really starting to act up, and could cause threats, and something bad happens, he's gonna be in some major major trouble, not to mention if another attack happens that makes 9/11 look like a girl scouts meeting, I doubt anyone will be thinking of gay issues.

    As far as other things pertaining to gay rights, its not ok to kill, or harm gay people, like it was in the south with blacks during a certain ugly time in this country. Gays aren't in any kind of segregation situation like blacks, and some other ethnic groups were, in an ugly time in this country. While I believe anyone who fires someone cause they're gay, or says offensive stuff to someone cause their gay, is wrong, I also know that's just people, and no matter where you go in this world, people will always hate, that's just a flaw in mankind and no laws, or social policies will get rid of this.

    The majority of Americans out there feel the same as I do, with doing negative things to someone, because of their race, religion, sex, sexual orientation ect. That's just not a popular thing in this country anymore, and its wrong, but again there are people who will still have hateful feelings.

    As far as the whole don't ask don't tell thing. I think its stupid, I don't care if the guy I'm serving with is gay, just as long as he does his job right. However the military doesn't want civilians trying to change their policies ect. Personally I could care less if they do or don't, You're not in the military to share your feelings and have everyone accept you, and all hold hands and sing.
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    May 27, 2009 4:09 PM GMT
    I've already decided that I will not donate or vote for him again until he does something for our community. We did our part, now it's his turn.
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    May 27, 2009 4:17 PM GMT
    This is one of the most pathetic and small-minded comments I have read on this site. Anyone who has read even the most cursory history of Burma knows that even gays in America have not had to endure the horrendous conditions of the junta in Burma.

    Your statement is an egregious logical fallacy (for collectors, it is the Ignoratio elenchi fallacy): Mr Obama's influence (or lack thereof) on the Burmese junta has precisely nothing to do with any programme of reform here.

    Why is your statement so objectionable? Because you commit the selfish error of those who are not truly free: that YOUR rights take precedence over everyone elses. You would do well, O Mortal Caslon, to recollect the wise words of John Donne:
    No man is an island entire of itself; every man
    is a piece of the continent, a part of the main;
    if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe
    is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as
    well as any manner of thy friends or of thine
    own were; any man's death diminishes me,
    because I am involved in mankind.
    And therefore never send to know for whom
    the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.


    We are all more free if Aung Sang Suu Kyi is free, for oppressive regimes the world over take comfort from a lack of action from the free world. For all of us who have had to endure suffering, we might do well to recollect the quiet indefatigability of Aung Sang Suu Kyi.
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    May 27, 2009 4:19 PM GMT
    Well, in all fairness, TigerTim, WE pay the taxes and HE represents US! Caslon's argument is a fair one.
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    May 27, 2009 4:19 PM GMT
    It sounds like the government is not backing him, so he is focusing on other issues. They need to listen to President Obama, and lets try and stabilize the economy, if not, EVERYONE will suffericon_exclaim.gificon_eek.gif
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    May 27, 2009 4:21 PM GMT
    And the words of John Donne you quoted presumes his audience to be white men who were the only educated people of their time. They didn't have any struggles except what was hitting their wallets.
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    May 27, 2009 4:26 PM GMT
    coolarmydude saidWell, in all fairness, TigerTim, WE pay the taxes and HE represents US! Caslon's argument is a fair one.


    I pay American taxes too, bitch.

    The rest of the world is sick of the American schizophrenia between offensive Interventionism versus feeble Isolationism. Why can't we get it right?

    Honestly, coolarmydude, I remember your writings in the Obama campaign and took you to be an intelligent man. Whilst I fully agree that he has made insufficient process on LGBT rights, as I demonstrate above Caslon's non-argument is spurious. I thought you had the good sense to spot this....
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    May 27, 2009 4:28 PM GMT
    ...and yet you call me a "bitch". How spurious!
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    May 27, 2009 4:29 PM GMT
    coolarmydude saidAnd the words of John Donne you quoted presumes his audience to be white men who were the only educated people of their time. They didn't have any struggles except what was hitting their wallets.


    John Donne was a Catholic whose brother was tortured and died in jail of the plague. His mother was forced to flee to Spanish-occupied Antwerp. His father was matyred. He had to convert to the Church of England in order to avoid a similar fate. He married a woman whose father had him thrown in Fleet Prison because he was a commoner.

    Do you read history at all?
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    May 27, 2009 4:33 PM GMT
    coolarmydude said...and yet you call me a "bitch". How spurious!


    I should have added a smiley --- it was a good-natured "bitch". :-)
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    May 27, 2009 4:49 PM GMT
    coolarmydude saidAnd the words of John Donne you quoted presumes his audience to be white men who were the only educated people of their time. They didn't have any struggles except what was hitting their wallets.


    I think you missed the point. icon_confused.gif

    We're talking about governments that condone the murder and torture of their people, and however bad you believe the GLBT community is suffering, our military isn't shooting us dead and rejecting democratic elections. Nor, as TigerTim has stated, does Obama advocating the freedom of Aung San Suu Kyi have any influence on the political or economic capital of changes that people believe should take place for the GLBT community.
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    May 27, 2009 5:02 PM GMT
    coolarmydude saidI've already decided that I will not donate or vote for him again until he does something for our community. We did our part, now it's his turn.




    What is he supposed to do though? If he goes into the military trying to get them to change the don't ask, don't tell policy, that could get him into a mess, like it did Clinton, and a mess he does not need right now.

    Again Gays can get civil unions, and have all the benefits a traditional couple has with those, they just don't' get to have the title a traditional couple has, because as I said, the majority of Americans view it as 1 man, 1 woman. Though I do not care about gay marriage, I don't think the gov should be involved in any kind of way in telling 2 adults who love each other, they can, or cannot be married.

    You guys are acting as if gays are being treated the same way blacks, and other groups were treated, in America's dark days, and its nothing like that at all. As I said yeah you're gonna have people who hate, and act stupid, but policies and laws cannot change the hearts of men, who have such hate.

    I keep hearing people say "what is he doing for us?" What is it exactly you want the man to do? What is the gay community doing for itself actually? We live in a time where it is no longer seen as ok, or right, by a large majority of Americans, to do, or have negative feelings towards another group of people.

    All of the civil rights battles were fought and won yesterday, but there are still people who feel they have much to fight for today, mostly because it makes them feel relevant, and then they try to throw in their own little agenda which is more often than not very to the left, which has negate effects in the long run. Like for example what Sotomayor did with those fire fighters who clearly were more qualified for the job, and did better on the test, but because of some PC, over the top affirmative action crap, they didn't get it. I'm all for putting the best qualified in, and don't give a damn about their race, sex, sexual orientation, religion ect, just as long as they do the damn job, damn good.

    Which is why I say, all of those civil rights groups of the past, that did do good work, and helped bring about very much needed change. Today are all bullshit. Another great example is the womens right groups. You don't hear a peep from any of them, with the way Muslim women are treated, even here in America. You don't hear a peep from them if a Conservative female politician, or a woman with just a bit more Conservative views gets torn down, and ripped apart. I was cracking the hell up when I watching this episode of O'Reilly and he made a little joke on that very ancient female reporter, doing a witch laugh, which was funny. Next day you had tons of womens rights group slamming him for it saying he should apologize.

    Meanwhile the girl who gave her answer on gay marriage, which by the way the president shares the same views, she's called a bitch and cunt, and has a photographer she trusted put photos of her out for all to see, photos that he not only should not have taken (he took photos of her changing), but photos he should not have released out, then of course the photos that got photoshoped, not one peep from the womens rights group. So basically all of these once good and needed groups, today have their own little agendas, and are just crap.

    Its the same with the black community in the country, that is having some problems. The race hustlers, and poverty pimps go on and on about how the gov should do this, or things haven't changed much, meanwhile the problems are due to the fact that a lot of young people in the black community idolize street culture far too much, and anyone who steps up and addresses this problem when it is very much the problem, are called "Uncle Toms" or "Racist".

    Obama's got a lot to deal with, and as someone in the military,I think you should be more concerned with him doing what is right to keep the country safe, in the times we are in today, and as a citizen of the country thinking about the economic growth and prosperity of the country, those issues are far more important. If gays were being treated the same way blacks, and other ethnic groups were in the ugly days, I'd be agreeing with everything I'm seeing in here 100%, but they aren't.

    And by no means am I saying everything is all peachy keen, I believe all people should be treated equal, and fair. But going on as if this is more important than everything else, especially when as I said they aren't being treated no where near as bad as certain groups were back in the day. I find it to be silly and selfish.




  • May 27, 2009 5:17 PM GMT
    how long until ya'll realize obama isn't going to do anything for the gays.
    shortly put...gays are a political sacrifice.
    choosing a side isn't worth the risk of losing supporters thus power for him.
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    May 27, 2009 5:28 PM GMT
    I think the gay vote ...like the vote of many other communities...can tip an election. Gay should consider not voting next time to show Democrats how much our support matters, even if we arent a majority.

    But he has well over 3 years to change the whole present scenario.

    Maybe he wants to get Sotomayor on the bench as a liberal activist vote before stirring up the hornets nest.

    Or waiting for Franken to give a filibuster proof 60 votes in the Senate....altho I am not sure we can rely on all Dems in the Congress.

  • May 27, 2009 5:34 PM GMT
    Caslon10901 saidI think the gay vote ...like the vote of many other communities...can tip an election. Gay should consider not voting next time to show Democrats how much our support matters, even if we arent a majority.


    i've thought about the idea but wouldn't that be what the republicans want!
    If only the republicans weren't so dense about gay rights...they'd be the most sensible party in my opinion. The best solution is to encourage a young gayling into politics, advise him to stay closeted until he becomes president then pull a fast one on all of america mwahahaicon_twisted.gif
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    May 27, 2009 5:43 PM GMT
    fake_palindromes said
    Caslon10901 saidI think the gay vote ...like the vote of many other communities...can tip an election. Gay should consider not voting next time to show Democrats how much our support matters, even if we arent a majority.


    i've thought about the idea but wouldn't that be what the republicans want!

    Indeed it would work in the Repubs favor for one election. But maybe it would get the Dems to sit up and take notice that they have to DO something or they are out of power. ...that pissing us off can be as dangerous as pissing off other voters.

    I wouldnt do it for every election....just maybe Obama's reelection. However, it will take 4 years to get this mind-set circulating amongst the gays in America.

    However, I really expect it will be a moot point by then cause I think he will act before then. But it is frustrating to wait while he is bitching about other countries. ... icon_evil.gif

    I am sure he and his staff are just taking Clinton's lesson to heart and not doing anything early in his term.
  • NickoftheNort...

    Posts: 1416

    May 27, 2009 5:50 PM GMT
    When I voted for Obama / Biden, I didn't do so with expectations of a highly active pro-LGBTQ executive; I did so to prevent a certain governor from having influence on a federal and international level (and to prevent an easily swayed senator from being Commander-in-Chief).

    I am happy that the Obama administration is calling out the Burmese junta. The junta is a piece-of-shit autocracy that should have ended years ago (when Aung San Suu Kyi's democratic party won the elections held over a decade ago).

    As for not being actively pro-LGBTQ and pro-equality: a major difference between the Republican Party and the Democratic Party is that the former puts its "fringe" voters (social regressives, theocrats, self-proclaimed conservatives) on a "Party Core!" pedestal while the latter treats its "fringe" voters (LGBTQ voters, women's right voters, leftists who have no other significant options) as its bitches.

    Welcome to being a Democratic Party voter!

  • May 27, 2009 5:51 PM GMT
    Good point BUT...America is a special country with special folks...for gays to make a point then wait 4 years to see the results? haha last time i checked the american people have very short term memory when it comes to politicians ie. how the heck bush got 4 let alone 8 years!

    irregardless...considering how about is strategically setting himself up for 2012....i wouldn't be surprised to 8 years of obama...then he changes the terms to indefinetly crown himself king of the USAicon_eek.gif
  • ERinVa

    Posts: 11

    May 27, 2009 6:24 PM GMT
    I get so sick and tired of hearing that there are bigger issues to be dealt with as if the Congress and the President can only do one thing at a time. As I recall, Obama (and other candidates) ran for President while also holding their US Senate seat (and drawing a paycheck). And quite frankly, if it comes to a choice between dealing with the economy vs. civil rights, put me in the civil rights column.