How much I wanted you, David

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    May 29, 2009 10:19 PM GMT
    Back in 1994 I applied to volunteer at a Christian Conference Centre at Isfiya, near Haifa, in Israel. The name of the centre was Stella Carmel. I was accepted and I chose to spend a year there. So I was offered a contract.
    If any volunteers, or "vollies" as we called ourselves, breached the agreement, a flight home was booked by the management and the violator was escorted by a staff member to the airport for the flight home.
    I was called to the Centre after two vollies broke the rules and were escorted back to the airport. Their offence? Petting. This guy met this girl at the site, and they were seen standing, facing eachother and sweet talking while she was in his arms. That was all. But it was enough for expulsion.
    When I arrived, I joined a team of four men and six women, plus three full time staff, all co-ordinated by the Directer and his wife, who wrote the list of duties for us all to cover each week.
    Of the male vollies, there were Trevor, David, Richard and myself. There was also Nadal, a local whose home was nearby. He called every evening to socialise.
    There were five bedrooms, each shared by two vollies. The two male bedrooms were on one side of a building separate from the Centre. The three female rooms were on the other side of the building. I shared the room with Richard, a stuck-up English churchman and undergraduate who looked down on me with contempt.
    David was a young Scottish undergrad, about two or three inches taller than me. He was very slim, his complexion was bronze, far more like an Arab or Spaniard than a Scotsman. Of course, he was straight.
    But how my dick stood on end when I was near him. Alone in my bedroom after all duties were completed, I had vivid imaginations of being in his arms, and even jacked myself off when the door was shut. My crush on him was intense, but I managed to keep myself under restrain during the time I was there.
    One day, Nadal approached and sat next to me. He then said that Trevor had told everyone that I was gay and I fancied David. He was right, but I denied it strongly. Nadal agreed with me.
    Well fancy that. Trevor telling everyone except me!
    Not long after, I was called into the Director's office. I was discharged, just two months into the contract.
    But I wasn't escorted to the airport. Instead I was given some money and escorted to the Haifa Bus Station, where I was left there. I made my own way to Jerusalem, and checked into a hostel, where I was to spend another month in Israel.
    So you see why I can't accept myself as gay, when there is such treachery.
    In Jerusalem, I had fears of Hell, I was broken and tormented. I felt betrayed, and worse, not by atheists, but by members of my own household (ie the Church).
    I want to see myself as straight. But I know that I'm gay.

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    May 30, 2009 12:50 AM GMT
    NotThatOld saidSo you see why I can't accept myself as gay, when there is such treachery.

    I do not see why. You were betrayed by non-gays, were you not? Clearly a traumatic experience, for which you have my greatest sympathy.

    But I'm not able to follow your logic. Why would you want to see yourself as straight, when straights did this to you. and when you know you are gay?
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    May 30, 2009 1:40 AM GMT
    I recommend the movie "Latter Days".
    Good flick.
  • jlly_rnchr

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    May 30, 2009 2:29 AM GMT
    Beaux saidI recommend the movie "Latter Days".
    Good flick.

    I love that movie. Cliches be damned, it was really good. Especially Mary Kay Place, the Mormon mother. She's always excellent.


    On topic...just because people are associated with the church does not mean they are good people. Look at Catholic priests, Reverend Fred Phelps, Mormons and their damn fundraising, etc. I would not immediately place higher expectations on individuals working "for God". Clearly, this has been a damaging experience, but I would not place blame on your "household" but on the close-minded people that got you kicked out.

    You can be gay and be a faithful, church-going person, it's not one or the other.
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    May 30, 2009 2:57 AM GMT



    Hey NotThatOld, you touched my heart.

    jlly_rnchr said this, "You can be gay and be a faithful, church-going person, it's not one or the other."

    ...and he's right, you know.


    -Doug of meninlove
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    May 30, 2009 9:21 AM GMT
    NotThatOld,
    I, too, along time ago, had a similar, though not as traumatic, experience and it devestated me. I had grown up in the church and was one the youth pastors of the largest non-denominational church in Charleston, SC. For about 3 years, I wrestled with what I heard in the pews on Sunday. I was never at a point where I hated myself, but I could not reconcile my being gay with being a part of the church. I left. I went through the whole coming out and being an active part of the gay community where ever I was living. My epiphany came when I was a councelor at a gay community center and I talked a kid out of suicide. It was there that I came to the realization just exactly how powerful words can be and how powerful they can be when they are spoken by the right or wrong person.

    I now have the greatest spiritual life because I understand that any part of doctrine or biblical text can be twisted to say whatever someone wants it to say. Only you can determine what relationship you have with God, no one else. Not a priest, pastor, minister or the Pope for that matter. Once you come to a place of peace which tells you that your spiritual self and your sexual self are indeed the same, you will understand that you are indeed a whole person, not splintered and battling inside. It is a journey only you can take, but there are plenty of us who will be there right beside you along the way. I hope that journey ends soon for you so that you can know true happiness. God speed and welcome.
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    May 30, 2009 9:44 AM GMT
    meninlove said
    "You can be gay and be a faithful, church-going person, it's not one or the other."

    ...and he's right, you know.


    -Doug of meninlove



    Absolutely, it is not one or the other. It may be that a particular church or community of faith is not the right one for you, but don't lose your faith - find another community of faith that is right for you. And don't lose sight of who you are.

    I feel for your pain and all you have gone through as a result of this experience - know that you are not alone. I've been years in the closet, trying to hide, ignore, forget or otherwise not acknowledge who i always have been. Through much of my life my faith has sustained me - maybe i've been lucky, i don't know, maybe i'm just a polly anna icon_biggrin.gif

    rose tinted glasses are off now and the world looks just the same icon_lol.gif
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    May 30, 2009 11:30 AM GMT
    jprichva said

    Having said that, I am glad to hear you finally admit it, and I (at least) welcome you to the company of your brothers.



    Amen.

    We may have our differences, but I'm glad for this post too. The first step towards happiness is accepting you are who you are. I'm rabidly atheist, but to deny that you are as you were made is blasphemy in itself by the tenets of your beliefs.

    God made you that way, how could it be punishment, when most of us knew we were this way even before we had our first sexual urges? Can someone sin so bad before he was born he would be punished eternal torment for something he did not choose and can not change?

    Inescapable damnation is not something I would fancy your God would inflict on his children.
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    May 30, 2009 2:31 PM GMT



    "Inescapable damnation is not something I would fancy your God would inflict on his children."


    ...proof that Atheists are absolutely necessary to the religious.


    - happily heretical christian (Doug)


    Thanks Sedative!
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    May 30, 2009 8:33 PM GMT
    Thanks guys, that was really encouraging!
    Perhaps on that day when I was called into the Director's office, I should have quoted a Scripture he would have known well:

    He who is without sin, let him cast the first stone.

    John 8.
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    May 30, 2009 9:08 PM GMT
    Red_Vespa said
    NotThatOld saidSo you see why I can't accept myself as gay, when there is such treachery.



    But I'm not able to follow your logic. Why would you want to see yourself as straight, when straights did this to you. and when you know you are gay?


    It is because I'm ashamed to admit that I'm gay.
    But I'm also in a fortunate situation. When my wife and I were courting, ten years ago, she actually asked if I was gay because she said that she suspected. I admitted that I was gay.
    She took it well, and accepted my proposal of marriage.
    Happy to say that our marriage is robust, but my dick still stands on end over men like David. She understands.
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    May 30, 2009 9:39 PM GMT


    This is really wonderful NotThatOld, and we really wish you'd shared this at first, instead of us and my Mom (who's back at her home now) getting all jagged - remember that? heheh

    Your Mrs is a great woman, and we think you both, from what you've offered here, have a delightfully unique arrangement.

    -us guys
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    May 30, 2009 9:43 PM GMT
    Beaux saidI recommend the movie "Latter Days".
    Good flick.


    I second that!
    You can be whatever you want to be