Posted on Myspace by my buddy Darryl Stephens (Thanks D!)
From the White House: LESBIAN, GAY, BISEXUAL, AND TRANSGENDER PRIDE MONTH, 2009
BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA A PROCLAMATION Forty years ago, patrons and supporters of the Stonewall Inn in New York City resisted police harassment that had become all too common for members of the lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) community. Out of this resistance, the LGBT rights movement in America was born. During LGBT Pride Month, we commemorate the events of June 1969 and commit to achieving equal justice under law for LGBT Americans.
LGBT Americans have made, and continue to make, great and lasting contributions that continue to strengthen the fabric of American society. There are many well-respected LGBT leaders in all professional fields, including the arts and business communities. LGBT Americans also mobilized the Nation to respond to the domestic HIV/AIDS epidemic and have played a vital role in broadening this country’s response to the HIV pandemic.
Due in no small part to the determination and dedication of the LGBT rights movement, more LGBT Americans are living their lives openly today than ever before. I am proud to be the first President to appoint openly LGBT candidates to Senate-confirmed positions in the first 100 days of an Administration. These individuals embody the best qualities we seek in public servants, and across my Administration — in both the White House and the Federal agencies — openly LGBT employees are doing their jobs with distinction and professionalism.
The LGBT rights movement has achieved great progress, but there is more work to be done. LGBT youth should feel safe to learn without the fear of harassment, and LGBT families and seniors should be allowed to live their lives with dignity and respect.
My Administration has partnered with the LGBT community to advance a wide range of initiatives. At the international level, I have joined efforts at the United Nations to decriminalize homosexuality around the world. Here at home, I continue to support measures to bring the full spectrum of equal rights to LGBT Americans. These measures include enhancing hate crimes laws, supporting civil unions and Federal rights for LGBT couples, outlawing discrimination in the workplace, ensuring adoption rights, and ending the existing “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” policy in a way that strengthens our Armed Forces and our national security. We must also commit ourselves to fighting the HIV/AIDS epidemic by both reducing the number of HIV infections and providing care and support services to people living with HIV/AIDS across the United States.
These issues affect not only the LGBT community, but also our entire Nation. As long as the promise of equality for all remains unfulfilled, all Americans are affected. If we can work together to advance the principles upon which our Nation was founded, every American will benefit. During LGBT Pride Month, I call upon the LGBT community, the Congress, and the American people to work together to promote equal rights for all, regardless of sexual orientation or gender identity.
NOW, THEREFORE, I, BARACK OBAMA, President of the United States of America, by virtue of the authority vested in me by the Constitution and laws of the United States, do hereby proclaim June 2009 as Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Pride Month. I call upon the people of the United States to turn back discrimination and prejudice everywhere it exists.
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this first day of June, in the year of our Lord two thousand nine, and of the Independence of the United States of America the two hundred and thirty-third.
I admit I am surprised not to see this posted here already, even though the majority of Obama threads have had more negative posts than positive. I am sure there will be those posts here as well.
Here are a couple of the comments left on Darryl's page, both pro and somewhat con:
Con:"Thanks, I voted for you and I appreciate what you're doing ....but it's not enough! "Don'r ask, Don't tell" is still in effect...WHY??? ... and Civil Unions???? Really???? By the way, when are you start prosecuting the bushit administration for eight yrs. of LIES and LAW BREAKING????"
Pro:"Wow. A President of our United States put together a speech addressing LGBT and named a month honoring LGBT. That is an historic occasion.
This has got to be one of the most inclusive Presidents we have ever had. He is tired of political in-fighting that only ends in a Dead End. The People are the ones he is interested in helping. When he said he would reach his hand across the aisle he wasn't kidding. He is reaching his hand across EVERY aisle, barricade, obstacle and crossing bridges others wouldn't dare or refused to cross and building bridges where there wasn't one before. He is even extending his hand out to adversaries to help find common ground. He is just asking EVERYONE to unclench their fists and open their hands, hearts and minds.
Yah know.... Obama has a plan, but we should all know by now that he doesn't make quick decisions until he has as much information/knowledge as he can gather. He also consults with many on how to proceed. The elimination and/or modification of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" is most-likely not just something he can wave a magic wand at and make go away.
He has a plan. Let's give him time. This man has a full plate. The above letter is awesome and speaks volumes of what kind of man Barack Obama is. It directly points to his character. And, although he has a lot of FLASH he has even more SUBSTANCE."
And for good measure a middle of the road one:"I'm not exactly sure what this means. Is this an acknowledgement for this month, this year or is it going to be an annual thing? Is it going to be like Christmas, Black History Month, or even St. Patricks Day? Just curious. I do like that he lets Americans know that he is on our side, but its hardly enough to get the ball rolling. We need results. It's a shame that this is even an issue at all. Nonetheless, thx for posting I probably would not have read this otherwise. I really dont like politics and Im sure you can guess why."
It's amazing to be alive here and now to see this happen.
Can we commemorate?
A woman on the radio talked about revolution when it's already passed her by Bob Dylan didn't have this to sing about you you know it feels good to be alive I was alive and I waited, waited I was alive and I waited for this Right here, right now there is no other place I want to be Right here, right now watching the world wake up from history I saw the decade in, when it seemed the world could change at the blink of an eye And if anything then there's your sign... of the times I was alive and I waited, waited I was alive and I waited for this Right here, right now I was alive and I waited, waited I was alive and I waited for this Right here, right now there is no other place I want to be Right here, right now watching the world wake up from history Right here, right now there is no other place I want to be Right here, right now watching the world wake up from history Right here, right now there is no other place I want to be -Jesus Jones
In Albuquerque we are having a memorial for GLBT people which will be the 2nd such memorial in the United States, the 1st being in New York City. I'm stoked for that.
Umm... are you really trying to tell me all this hoopla is because he made June LGBT month? The time when no schools are really in session? What a perfect way to bypass the fact that he hasn't done anything for the LGBT community by making a parade for us! Because African Americans didn't want equal rights, they wanted Black History Month! This is a cop-out, and I could care less if I have a month in honor of whom I love. I mean, how great is it that instead of having equal rights, we now have a month devoted to the examination of why we don't have equal rights. I know a bunch of you will see this as progress, but this to me is a smack to the face as a way he is trying to appease the LGBT community that is rightfully angry at him. Sorry, no dice.
More pretty words. He is fantastic at making statements, but as must always be the case with politicians, especially ones that speak with flourish, you have to look to substance and beyond that to action. Words are cheap and can make people happy, "Oh, he cares about us and wants to help." However, as we've seen on torture, Iraq, health care, secrecy, and a host of other issues, he says one thing and does the exact opposite, blinding his supporters with platitudes. Sure this is more than we would have gotten out of Bush, but at this point it remains mere words. I imagine that there will be little action taken on the big issues (DOMA and DADT). You can say "He really wants to but can't," but that gives the opposition too much credit and lets Democrats off the hook too easily. If you want to stand for something at some point you have to ACT, not just speak.
I don't see this as signifying much of a change, but I'll be happy for him to prove me wrong.
Seriously, like MeninLove said, it's one step at a time...
I'm a little tired of being told one-step at a time. I'm not some child that needs to be patient and I'll understand when I grow up. This is my life and I'm being unfairly treated because of it. In fact, I wish all you "one-step at a timers" would stop being so complacent. I think if everyone in this country were up in arms lunatic mad about these issues, we'd see some change, but people like Obama can get away with it because we say one-step at a time. Well, frankly, I'm done with that logic. Nothing is going to change if we sit quietly on sidelines.
like meninlove said, "one step at time", jeez. you can't expect change over night guys.
at least he is trying. and those of you who say he isn't. you try bring president and talk to the world about gay rights... you'd be shot down so fast it's not even funny.
lilZ saidlike meninlove said, "one step at time", jeez. you can't expect change over night guys.
Let's see... from the day Clinton promised to allow gays to serve openly in the military, how many nights has it been?
Forgive me, but Obama is not Clinton.
Funny, both sound alike on a lot of the same issues, and both seem to have done nothing about them.
Obama has been in office for what? Going on 5 months. Clinton had 8 years. Like I said, change will not happen in that short of time. At least he is taking a step in the right direction. What have you done?
Obama has been in office for what? Going on 5 months. Clinton had 8 years. Like I said, change will not happen in that short of time. At least he is taking a step in the right direction. What have you done?
Me? I voted for the dude who promised change. And now that he is not delivering it, I'm raising hell about it because if all I do is keep my mouth shut, then all anyone has to do is make a fancy proclamation, give us a month, and then we'll never speak up against this stagnancy. Stop making excuses for the man. It's not just this. It's the war, it's Gitmo, it's a lot of things that he ran on and then turned coat on.
As a citizen of this country, I listened to every single word he said and was present when he made his acceptance speech as the nominee and as president-elect. Clearly stated, before when the question was put to him, he said he personally believes that marriage is a union between a man and a woman. His personal take. When asked directly about a national ruling on gay marriage (also before he was elected), he said he thought the states should decided. Both BEFORE he was elected. Personally, while everyone is entitled to you take on President Obama, don't get it twisted. You knew where he stood before you voted for him, if you did. I certainly did. But what I also took from his speeches and answers to those questions was that he is open to discussion on these issues and he had NOT backtracked on that. And quite frankly, I am more concerned with the economy and healthcare than I am about him making ink strokes of executive orders that would really only effect the federal level of employees.
When are people in general actually going to get off the f*cking keyboards and do something? All this complaining and not a single viable solution. What are you doing in your own states to forward the progress of gay rights? What are you doing to forward the reversal of DOMA and DADT? The President can not do everything and he certainly won't do everything, at the very least without just cause. If we really want these things, we are going to have to do it from the ground level and move up from there. Continue to hold the president accountable as we all should, but do so in a condusive and constructive manner about what should be done and how is should happen. Not since Clinton has there been a call by a president to have the people so involved.
ErikTaurean saidAs a citizen of this country, I listened to every single word he said and was present when he made his acceptance speech as the nominee and as president-elect. Clearly stated, before when the question was put to him, he said he personally believes that marriage is a union between a man and a woman. His personal take. When asked directly about a national ruling on gay marriage (also before he was elected), he said he thought the states should decided. Both BEFORE he was elected. Personally, while everyone is entitled to you take on President Obama, don't get it twisted. You knew where he stood before you voted for him, if you did. I certainly did. But what I also took from his speeches and answers to those questions was that he is open to discussion on these issues and he had NOT backtracked on that. And quite frankly, I am more concerned with the economy and healthcare than I am about him making ink strokes of executive orders that would really only effect the federal level of employees.
When are people in general actually going to get off the f*cking keyboards and do something? All this complaining and not a single viable solution. What are you doing in your own states to forward the progress of gay rights? What are you doing to forward the reversal of DOMA and DADT? The President can not do everything and he certainly won't do everything, at the very least without just cause. If we really want these things, we are going to have to do it from the ground level and move up from there. Continue to hold the president accountable as we all should, but do so in a condusive and constructive manner about what should be done and how is should happen. Not since Clinton has there been a call by a president to have the people so involved.
Ok,that was my rant for the day.....
Except he did run on the platform of reversing DOMA and DADT. And stop belittling the effect of something on a federal level. Why doesn't he lead by examples if he truly has convictions and sign as many executive orders as he can to right as many injustices at the federal as possible? People seem to be so committed to the idea of inspiration that they are willing to forgive him for this junk. Well sorry, I don't care about his dogs, his dates, or what his wife is wearing. I want the platform he ran on and what I voted for.
ErikTaurean saidAs a citizen of this country, I listened to every single word he said and was present when he made his acceptance speech as the nominee and as president-elect. Clearly stated, before when the question was put to him, he said he personally believes that marriage is a union between a man and a woman. His personal take. When asked directly about a national ruling on gay marriage (also before he was elected), he said he thought the states should decided. Both BEFORE he was elected. Personally, while everyone is entitled to you take on President Obama, don't get it twisted. You knew where he stood before you voted for him, if you did. I certainly did. But what I also took from his speeches and answers to those questions was that he is open to discussion on these issues and he had NOT backtracked on that. And quite frankly, I am more concerned with the economy and healthcare than I am about him making ink strokes of executive orders that would really only effect the federal level of employees.
When are people in general actually going to get off the f*cking keyboards and do something? All this complaining and not a single viable solution. What are you doing in your own states to forward the progress of gay rights? What are you doing to forward the reversal of DOMA and DADT? The President can not do everything and he certainly won't do everything, at the very least without just cause. If we really want these things, we are going to have to do it from the ground level and move up from there. Continue to hold the president accountable as we all should, but do so in a condusive and constructive manner about what should be done and how is should happen. Not since Clinton has there been a call by a president to have the people so involved.
ErikTaurean saidAs a citizen of this country, I listened to every single word he said and was present when he made his acceptance speech as the nominee and as president-elect. Clearly stated, before when the question was put to him, he said he personally believes that marriage is a union between a man and a woman. His personal take. When asked directly about a national ruling on gay marriage (also before he was elected), he said he thought the states should decided. Both BEFORE he was elected. Personally, while everyone is entitled to you take on President Obama, don't get it twisted. You knew where he stood before you voted for him, if you did. I certainly did. But what I also took from his speeches and answers to those questions was that he is open to discussion on these issues and he had NOT backtracked on that. And quite frankly, I am more concerned with the economy and healthcare than I am about him making ink strokes of executive orders that would really only effect the federal level of employees.
When are people in general actually going to get off the f*cking keyboards and do something? All this complaining and not a single viable solution. What are you doing in your own states to forward the progress of gay rights? What are you doing to forward the reversal of DOMA and DADT? The President can not do everything and he certainly won't do everything, at the very least without just cause. If we really want these things, we are going to have to do it from the ground level and move up from there. Continue to hold the president accountable as we all should, but do so in a condusive and constructive manner about what should be done and how is should happen. Not since Clinton has there been a call by a president to have the people so involved.
Ok,that was my rant for the day.....
THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!
And I sincerely doubt sitting here kissing his ass is this call to action you alluded to. After all, the civil rights demonstrators didn't want to upset Kennedy and Johnson.
ErikTaurean saidAs a citizen of this country, I listened to every single word he said and was present when he made his acceptance speech as the nominee and as president-elect. Clearly stated, before when the question was put to him, he said he personally believes that marriage is a union between a man and a woman. His personal take. When asked directly about a national ruling on gay marriage (also before he was elected), he said he thought the states should decided. Both BEFORE he was elected. Personally, while everyone is entitled to you take on President Obama, don't get it twisted. You knew where he stood before you voted for him, if you did. I certainly did. But what I also took from his speeches and answers to those questions was that he is open to discussion on these issues and he had NOT backtracked on that. And quite frankly, I am more concerned with the economy and healthcare than I am about him making ink strokes of executive orders that would really only effect the federal level of employees.
When are people in general actually going to get off the f*cking keyboards and do something? All this complaining and not a single viable solution. What are you doing in your own states to forward the progress of gay rights? What are you doing to forward the reversal of DOMA and DADT? The President can not do everything and he certainly won't do everything, at the very least without just cause. If we really want these things, we are going to have to do it from the ground level and move up from there. Continue to hold the president accountable as we all should, but do so in a condusive and constructive manner about what should be done and how is should happen. Not since Clinton has there been a call by a president to have the people so involved.
Ok,that was my rant for the day.....
THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!
And I sincerely doubt sitting here kissing his ass is this call to action you alluded to. After all, the civil rights demonstrators didn't want to upset Kennedy and Johnson.
Who said anything about ass-kissing? I think someone is here to just start drama? Wouldn't be the first time, I've heard. LOL
Observing from Canada, we feel a lot has happened since your new Prez took office. If change comes too swiftly, won't there be a backlash?
aurevoir made a very good post:
"It's something. I think BO understands the difficulty in addressing the issues facing gays and lesbians. I'm partial to the idea that he really is for same-sex marriage, but knows that it's currently a contentious cultural issue that would lose him some support. Maybe it's the same way with "Don't Ask, Don't Tell."
Despite the fact that we still have a way to go, it is good to be acknowledged in a positive light.
But as it is the gay pride season, I am placing the emphasis where it belongs. This is not about the President or politics, this is about Gay people everywhere that put up with all kinds of crap and still keep moving forward. Our forward momentum owes itself to all those who have come out before us to tell the world we are better than what they think of us.
And also to all the people who have suffered indignities, beatings, imprisonment, mutilation, and murder for the past 1700+ years, we owe a continued momentum. Even though in this country we have more rights than ever, in other parts of the world, imprisonment and death is still possible. So to all those struck down and silenced whether it be in a concentration camp or in a dark alley or in a small town somewhere, I choose to remember them because maybe there was no one to stand up for them .. and they might otherwise be forgotten. If they could see the freedom and opportunities we now have here now, I am sure they would be very pleased.
Being as out as we can be, not ashamed of who we are, and standing up on our own two feet is what it is all about. No matter who may let us down in the straight world, we should never let ourselves down. We owe it the the next generation of gay people to pass on a little history of where we have been, but be proud and hopeful.
I like that the Pres. did this it's somethingbut even though he may not be able to repeal DADT he can issue a stop order especally when it's someone that did'nt tell and was'nt asked but outed.I mean that was the point of DADT right so gay men&women can serve.I know the marriage part will take longer but we are in a war now and we need all of the solders we have.God forbid that NK actually tries or succeeds in launching a missile at us and we have another front to fight on.And the Pres needs another press guy the one he has now is as articulate as a rock.
Good going gays! Keep up the good work!!! I took your money when running for office, but now that I am in office I will not do a damn thing for you except appoint a few gays to obscure offices. No support for gay marriage. No overturn of DADT. Nothing really. Platitudes.
Wow. Thanks, President Obama! I will keep fighting the good fight! Thanks for all the support. I know you are busy bringing equal rights to other countries. How about us? Your citizens? In the US?
lol. Is this a suprise to anyone but the true believers?
"My Administration has partnered with the LGBT community to advance a wide range of initiatives. At the international level, I have joined efforts at the United Nations to decriminalize homosexuality around the world. Here at home, I continue to support measures to bring the full spectrum of equal rights to LGBT Americans. These measures include enhancing hate crimes laws, supporting civil unions and Federal rights for LGBT couples, outlawing discrimination in the workplace, ensuring adoption rights, and ending the existing “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” policy in a way that strengthens our Armed Forces and our national security."
I love how he takes credit for things he has not done and things he will never do, but he takes credit for it.
Obama, make gay marriage a reality. Make gays in the military a reality. Stop the bs. Do it, or shut up.
The Wizard of Oz also issued a proclamation in the movie. It's just a matter of time, now, before Obama shows up in a big balloon to scoop us all up and brings us back to Kansas where we can line up in church to be shot.
Well, what can I say? You equate the Wizard of Oz and Obama? That anything either one says is equal to the other? Wow. President of the United States and the Wizard of Oz? What more can I say? Shows how you think but very scary for the rest of us.
Obama's little declaration made it sound like this was his idea, he's actually just recognizing the month for what it already was. I mean, it's cool that he's actually saying these words in public for what seems like the first time since the campaign (so he does want to repeal DADT), but this is more for show than support of policy. But hey, I didn't even know we had a month until this, so I guess it's a good thing he mentioned it.
What's the Republican Party history on issuing pride proclamations? I've experienced Republican Governors and Mayors who broke existing custom by refusing to issue them. We slam Obama because the better alternative is exactly WHAT?
BTW, I wish it had been GLBT, not LGBT, a term I hate. Pushy lesbians have been promoting this illogical change for years, a classic case of the squeaky wheels getting the grease.
I wish it was LGB. I don't want to be associated with the transgendered movement. No offense to anybody, but I'm not convinced THAT ONE is anything more than a choice.
Caslon11000 saidhmmm...I dont care for the support for civil unions...bet he wouldnt have liked "separate but equal"
and what's with the "year of our lord"??? ...
I completely agree that Civil Unions suck compared to marriage (though having Civil Unions as an option for Het couples is something I like too) but he did say that he supports giving Federal Rights for couples, something he said on the Campaign trail.
That is huge. That is the bulk of civil rights we are talking about when we speak of marriage equality. While it isn't actual movement on this issue, it does reaffirm a campaign promise and commitment to our community. And that, at least, should be welcome.
That said, he better get his ass in gear and get some legislation through.
At the minimum, suspending discharges under DADT would have been "change I could believe in." We don't seek a month of recognition; we seek legal recognition!
Should we declare July as the month we recognize Obama's failure to act for GLBT equality?
cruelsummer said, "I wish it was LGB. I don't want to be associated with the transgendered movement. No offense to anybody, but I'm not convinced THAT ONE is anything more than a choice."
I used to be an Amazon Woman. What's your problem, bitch?
lilZ saidlike meninlove said, "one step at time", jeez. you can't expect change over night guys.
at least he is trying. and those of you who say he isn't. you try bring president and talk to the world about gay rights... you'd be shot down so fast it's not even funny.
your country is lagging behind most (read this again: most) of the western world on gay rights!!! i hope you are aware how little leadership you have in that aspect.
At this stage in the game talk is cheap. Shit or get off the pot Obama.
cruelsummer saidI wish it was LGB. I don't want to be associated with the transgendered movement. No offense to anybody, but I'm not convinced THAT ONE is anything more than a choice.
Honey, read up a little more. I suggest a book called 'What Becomes You' by Aaron Raz Link. I'd also suggest getting to know some transgendered people and listening to their personal stories. If you think we have it rough, you're in for a shock.
What I notice is that some of Obama's critics on gay rights here are in fact Republican supporters. If they had their Republican way, we would have no gay rights at all, and we'd be going backwards.
Their criticism of Obama on gay rights isn't to obtain more gay rights, but to alienate gays from Obama. Let's get that clear. These are false arguments, because their goal isn't to help gays, but to hurt Obama with gays. Undermining Obama's political base is what it's all about, not advancing gay rights.
Red_Vespa saidWhat I notice is that some of Obama's critics on gay rights here are in fact Republican supporters. If they had their Republican way, we would have no gay rights at all, and we'd be going backwards.
Their criticism of Obama on gay rights isn't to obtain more gay rights, but to alienate gays from Obama. Let's get that clear. These are false arguments, because their goal isn't to help gays, but to hurt Obama with gays. Undermining Obama's political base is what it's all about, not advancing gay rights.
I hear that, but we can't be that close-minded. I currently support Obama 100%, but will turn on him quicker than Nestle if he keeps leading the GLBT community along like a bunch of lemmings. The only one capable of alienating me from Obama is Obama, himself.
I'll play follow the leader, but I expect the leader to lead. He must make true his promises, and keep his false God ("lord") out of my fucking bedroom. The longer he tries to straddle the fence, the harder it will be for him to jump over to the left side where he belongs.
ActiveAndFit saidDespite the fact that we still have a way to go, it is good to be acknowledged in a positive light.
But as it is the gay pride season, I am placing the emphasis where it belongs. This is not about the President or politics, this is about Gay people everywhere that put up with all kinds of crap and still keep moving forward. Our forward momentum owes itself to all those who have come out before us to tell the world we are better than what they think of us.
And also to all the people who have suffered indignities, beatings, imprisonment, mutilation, and murder for the past 1700+ years, we owe a continued momentum. Even though in this country we have more rights than ever, in other parts of the world, imprisonment and death is still possible. So to all those struck down and silenced whether it be in a concentration camp or in a dark alley or in a small town somewhere, I choose to remember them because maybe there was no one to stand up for them .. and they might otherwise be forgotten. If they could see the freedom and opportunities we now have here now, I am sure they would be very pleased.
Being as out as we can be, not ashamed of who we are, and standing up on our own two feet is what it is all about. No matter who may let us down in the straight world, we should never let ourselves down. We owe it the the next generation of gay people to pass on a little history of where we have been, but be proud and hopeful.
No one else can be proud for us!
I didn't want the eloquence of the above quote to be lost in the politics of the thread.
I agree, move toward a CHANGE of law. Not creating a new Greeting Card moment...
Further Press Perspective On Obama's "move": That equal justice under law did not include, in the president’s recitation, perhaps the highest profile issue on the gadar – same sex marriage, or what LGBT activists call “marriage equality.”
Interestingly, the presidential proclamation came the same day that Mr. Obama’s conservative nemesis, former Vice President Dick Cheney, seemed to say he supported same-sex marriage as long as the rules are determined on a state-by-state basis.
Cheney was asked at the National Press Club, "given recent events in Iowa and elsewhere, is some form of legalized gay marriage inevitable for the United States?"
"I think that freedom means freedom for everyone," Cheney said.
"People ought to be free to enter into any kind of union they wish, any kind of arrangement they wish,” said the laconic former veep, whose daughter Mary is lesbian, and has a son, Sam, with her partner Heather Poe.
Cheney said “I think people ought to be free to enter into any kind of union they wish. Any kind of arrangement they wish. The question of whether or not there ought to be a federal statute to protect this, I don't support. I do believe that the historically the way marriage has been regulated is at the state level. It has always been a state issue and I think that is the way it ought to be handled, on a state-by-state basis. ... But I don't have any problem with that. People ought to get a shot at that."
President Obama today also made no mention of when or how the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy would end, though he said it would be done “in a way that strengthens our Armed Forces and our national security.
“As long as the promise of equality for all remains unfulfilled, all Americans are affected,” the president said. “If we can work together to advance the principles upon which our Nation was founded, every American will benefit.”
UPDATE: It turns out that Mr. Obama's claim "to be the first President to appoint openly LGBT candidates to Senate-confirmed positions in the first 100 days of an Administration" isn't accurate, since by April 1993 President Bill Clinton had nominated two openly gay Assistant Secretaries.
Does anyone think that the Dems will have such a large majority in Congress in 2 years? I doubt it! And then what, the GOP will stall any progress on LGBT rights!
Now is the time to strike, and if it doesn't happen NOW, face facts, it'll be another 20 years before any progress is made.
I voted for Obama, but like most Democratic pols, the LGBT community is always the first one they forget about.
I have no faith he will do right by us, but I would love to be proved wrong.
I agree...baby steps were fine in 1992, but its time for at least one large step. Leadership on DADT would be great; I'm disappointed and a bit surprised by the lack of any right now. It would also be great to see some more aggressive leadership by our national organizations as well. Anyone heard a peep out of the HRC lately?
coolarmydude saidLike who, Red? (I'm off to work. I'll check again at lunch)
The "here' meant on RJ, not this thread specifically. Sorry for my lack of clarity. I can name some members who fit that description, but I'd rather not get into a mud-slinging contest. Can you not think of some yourself?
Between the stimulus, budget, Cuba, Sotomayor, and the plan to get health care reform through congress by the end of summer, Obama has had a very busy year. I understand he wants to get these things done and that doing to requires political capital. Repealing DADT or DOMA requires a tremendous amount of political capital, even if DADT requires no congressional action.
Obama is not an ideologue, he is a pragmatist. He is doing his best to not piss off the Nelsons, Specters, Lincolns, Landrieus, McCaskills, Byrds of the Senate so he can get meaningful reform done on these larger economic issues (on which both his reelection and further gains in the Senate are hinged).
Simply, it is just not politically possible to get everything done right now even though it is the right thing to do.
This is not an apology for the man and I am certainly not trying to justify keeping us second class citizens. I am just saying we should look at this, and all issues, in the larger perspective of the administration's agenda and the political landscape.
MunchingZombie saidBetween the stimulus, budget, Cuba, Sotomayor, and the plan to get health care reform through congress by the end of summer, Obama has had a very busy year. I understand he wants to get these things done and that doing to requires political capital. Repealing DADT or DOMA requires a tremendous amount of political capital, even if DADT requires no congressional action.
Obama is not an ideologue, he is a pragmatist. He is doing his best to not piss off the Nelsons, Specters, Lincolns, Landrieus, McCaskills, Byrds of the Senate so he can get meaningful reform done on these larger economic issues (on which both his reelection and further gains in the Senate are hinged).
Simply, it is just not politically possible to get everything done right now even though it is the right thing to do.
This is not an apology for the man and I am certainly not trying to justify keeping us second class citizens. I am just saying we should look at this, and all issues, in the larger perspective of the administration's agenda and the political landscape.
He doesn't have to repeal all of DOMA, just the part the denies Federal recognition of same-sex unions. He can order the DOD to suspend DADT investigations and discharges.
The hard truth is, if doesn't happen this year, it won't happen at all during Obama's presidency. the mid-term elections are next year, and those blue-dog Dems will run from LGBT legislation like lemmings off a cliff.
Let's face it, our Democratics leaders in Congress are a bunch of cowards when it comes to us. At least the GOP tried to appease their base, the Dems just ignore their own.
MunchingZombie saidBetween the stimulus, budget, Cuba, Sotomayor, and the plan to get health care reform through congress by the end of summer, Obama has had a very busy year. I understand he wants to get these things done and that doing to requires political capital. Repealing DADT or DOMA requires a tremendous amount of political capital, even if DADT requires no congressional action.
Obama is not an ideologue, he is a pragmatist. He is doing his best to not piss off the Nelsons, Specters, Lincolns, Landrieus, McCaskills, Byrds of the Senate so he can get meaningful reform done on these larger economic issues (on which both his reelection and further gains in the Senate are hinged).
Simply, it is just not politically possible to get everything done right now even though it is the right thing to do.
This is not an apology for the man and I am certainly not trying to justify keeping us second class citizens. I am just saying we should look at this, and all issues, in the larger perspective of the administration's agenda and the political landscape.
Your observations are very astute, and why I am biding my time with Obama. My patience is not infinite, but we gays mustn't fall into the trap of demanding immediate gratification like little children do. There are still considerable Congressional Republican obstacles to our goals, and voter support for gay rights is not strong.
Let's not shoot ourselves in the foot by demanding too much too soon. Politics is an art, and Obama a good practitioner of it. Give him some slack, and he will ultimately deliver or he won't.
Considering all that President Obama had handed to him, I am one of those who will wait patiently as he deals with each problem one-by-one. I am certain that soon the President will address our concerns forcefully and with the celebrated patience and courage with which he faces these other problems. That such a proclamation is being issued from the Office of the President of the United States is astounding. I remember hearing about Stonewall as I was stationed overseas, serving in the U.S. Navy. There were jokes made about the event amongst my fellow sailors (nothing cruel and some even expressed support in the "live and let live" ideal), but in my heart and soul, I knew that Stonewall was something special. Those courageous people who fought back that hot summer night in 1969 (and one must always remember those brave souls of The Mattachine Society and The Daughters of Bilitis who lit the way for them) blazed a path for the rest of us to march upon. That I would see the reality of gays and lesbians fighting for and achieving civil equality in American society (and in many places around the world) in my lifetime is more than I could ever have believed or hoped for those many years ago. Even more so, to see those final racial barriers that ossified American society and its collective sense of justice and goodwill crumble to dust when Mr. Obama was elected to the Presidency in 2008 restores my faith in and for the American Dream and America's people.
People thought I was crazy to refer to Obama as just another Jimmy Carter, but it looks like I may be more accurate than I realized. I'm really tired of politicians not being able to get even the smallest changes through. Either due to fear or lack of commitment.
Declaring this month LGBTQ pride month really hasn't changed much. It's not even an act of bravery. I mean Clinton declared June Gay and Lesbian pride month back in 2000. So we've added a few letters, but has it really done anything?
We aren't gonna get shit on the national level till we get a solid ground work on a state by state, or even city by city level. Quit your bitching and pay attention to the people who live next to you. We can't create change by just yelling loud enough. We need allies and the only way we can get that is through talk with the people many within the community hate.
MunchingZombie said This is not an apology for the man and I am certainly not trying to justify keeping us second class citizens. I am just saying we should look at this, and all issues, in the larger perspective of the administration's agenda and the political landscape.
Anyone who thinks that those of us who are disgusted are having some sort of tantrum about gay issues is ignoring the even more dangerous actions coming out of this administration. 1. Preventive detention and an extralegal "justice" system for detainees. Paging Joe Stalin!
2. Transparency and the stunning reversal on the release of pictures, documents, and de-classified information. Paging Richard Nixon!
3. The failure to permit advocates of single-payer health care to even have a place at the discussion table. Paging Bill Clinton!
4.Maintaining Guantanamo and the gulag of so-called black sites overseas for prisoners. Paging George Bush!
And you think we're only pissed because he's throwing us under the bus? Make no mistake: I do not believe Barack Obama is a homophobe. I do believe that he really doesn't give a shit about us, and proclamations are almost an insult.
l1lz44 saidPeople thought I was crazy to refer to Obama as just another Jimmy Carter, but it looks like I may be more accurate than I realized. I'm really tired of politicians not being able to get even the smallest changes through. Either due to fear or lack of commitment.
Declaring this month LGBTQ pride month really hasn't changed much. It's not even an act of bravery. I mean Clinton declared June Gay and Lesbian pride month back in 2000. So we've added a few letters, but has it really done anything?
We aren't gonna get shit on the national level till we get a solid ground work on a state by state, or even city by city level. Quit your bitching and pay attention to the people who live next to you. We can't create change by just yelling loud enough. We need allies and the only way we can get that is through talk with the people many within the community hate.
He is definitely not a Jimmy Carter. At worst, he's a clinton. But it has been only 5 mos. so he surely can keep moving up. I think the gays are a bit savvier after being used by Bill Clinton, too, so I think that is going to make a difference this time around.
Anyone who thinks that those of us who are disgusted are having some sort of tantrum about gay issues is ignoring the even more dangerous actions coming out of this administration. 1. Preventive detention and an extralegal "justice" system for detainees. Paging Joe Stalin!
2. Transparency and the stunning reversal on the release of pictures, documents, and de-classified information. Paging Richard Nixon!
3. The failure to permit advocates of single-payer health care to even have a place at the discussion table. Paging Bill Clinton!
4.Maintaining Guantanamo and the gulag of so-called black sites overseas for prisoners. Paging George Bush!
And you think we're only pissed because he's throwing us under the bus? Make no mistake: I do not believe Barack Obama is a homophobe. I do believe that he really doesn't give a shit about us, and proclamations are almost an insult.
WIN!!1!
I don't think the majority of the people here blasting Obama want him to fail. I know I voted for him, and I believe many others here did too; we are upset because we feel he abandoned his platform that made us vote for him, gay issues being one of them-- but only one, as there are a variety of things about him that are very disturbing. No of us want this. We do want to praise him for helping us and doing good things, but the fact remains that he isn't and that's why we're upset.
It is disturbing that Obama comes out with his proclamation after Cheney's positive stance on gay rights. Simple coincidence, or was Obama actually trumped by his political nemesis? I fear the latter. And Cheney's endorsement of state-sanctioned marriage for gays appears to put him to the left of Obama, since Obama says he supports civil unions rather than marriage for same-sex couples.
What's going on here? The more I research this, the more pissed off I become.
I'm not shooting myself in the foot. I'm simply tired of being asked to have patience.
Tapper saidIt is disturbing that Obama comes out with his proclamation after Cheney's positive stance on gay rights. Simple coincidence, or was Obama actually trumped by his political nemesis? I fear the latter. And Cheney's endorsement of state-sanctioned marriage for gays appears to put him to the left of Obama, since Obama says he supports civil unions rather than marriage for same-sex couples.
What's going on here? The more I research this, the more pissed off I become.
I'm not shooting myself in the foot. I'm simply tired of being asked to have patience.
Just to be clear. The President supports extending all civil rights to same-sex couples. Dick Cheney supports extending state rights as states see fit but not extending any federal rights. Obama's position grants us many more rights and most of the important ones. Cheney's gives us only a fraction.
MunchingZombie saidJust to be clear. The President supports extending all civil rights to same-sex couples. Dick Cheney supports extending state rights as states see fit but not extending any federal rights. Obama's position grants us many more rights and most of the important ones. Cheney's gives us only a fraction.
Important distinction. Plus states rights alone don't solve the DOMA problem, which means gays can't get Social Security survivor benefits, and resolve countless other federal issues.
Cheney knows damn well that some states, especially in the deep South, will never grant gay rights within any of our lifetimes. So it's a hollow statement, meant to seem gay-compassionate, but really isn't. Ask Cheney if he supports the repeal of DOMA.
BO talks a good talk, but where is the action. He could have done some of the things he platformed right from jump street, but chose not to. Also, what happened to "transparency" in government. I was really excited about BO's administration. He made it seem as though he was gonna turn the country on it's head in a dramatic and expediate way, which is exactly why he had the overwhelming support he got. What has he really done while in office, except get more face time and talk.
As for one step at a time, we've been saying that since 1969! We really haven't come very far since then. It's time for a more brisk pace.
CalibroI don't think the majority of the people here blasting Obama want him to fail. I know I voted for him, and I believe many others here did too; we are upset because we feel he abandoned his platform that made us vote for him, gay issues being one of them-- but only one, as there are a variety of things about him that are very disturbing. No of us want this. We do want to praise him for helping us and doing good things, but the fact remains that he isn't and that's why we're upset.
This is the point. Too many people view elected officials as entitled to act as they please, if they don't do what we wanted, we are out of luck. What a depressing and poisonous attitude. If you don't demand action you will get none. Just because they have been elected does not mean they are unaccountable, just the opposite should be true. If you don't like what is being done, raise hell, don't sit passively, twiddling your thumbs saying "well, he cares he just has important things to do."
That. Is. Bullshit. There are lots of problems in this country, but some things he could do very easily, in five minutes even, that would show there is at least some intention of follow through. He can't end DADT by himself, it is a statute, but he can order the armed forces to stop issuing findings that soldiers are gay, thus ending discharges in the meantime. Instead we see, yet again, stories like that of Lt. Dan Choi. What did Obama do? He allowed the discharge to go forward saying he would "study" the issue. That means appoint a group of homophobic army brass to report back saying that changes would "undermine security." Look at what Lt. Choi says about his unit. Any argument that ending the policy would harm military effectiveness denies actual experience in our military, public opinion, and the experiences of other countries.
I never believed that Obama was a liberal, I never drank the Kool Aid and became an "Obamaton." I would be more than happy, I'd be thrilled to praise him for something, when he earns it. But I will not apologize for him when he does things that deserve criticism, nor will I give Democrats the benefit of the doubt. They have no intention of doing anything for us as long as we sit quietly and wait for the "right time." News Flash: there never will be a right time. There will always be a "crisis." Or an election. Or some other lame excuse that will push us to the back burner. There is no opposition in the House. Once Franken is seated in the Senate there will be no excuse for inaction besides cowardice and lack of party discipline and leadership.
The point of being an elected official is to stand for something and take actions to stand up for those principles. If those officials are not acting, hold them accountable through protests, primaries, withholding funds, and petitions. Too many think the point of holding office is not to accomplish but to maintain oneself in office. A far cry from what government is supposed to be about, in its ideal form.
So go ahead and wait. Listen to and read pretty announcements. But I'm with Calibro and Jprichva. I'm going to be angry and vocal and demand action. I'm not one to sit around feeling disappointed, waiting for some White Knight to come give me my rights. I'm going to demand them.
I'm glad that he did that. I wish that the media would have picked it up more.
It is becomming more and more critical that we end DOMA now. As prop 8 heads ot the federal government, we need to end DOMA.I would hate for the Federal Supreme Court to use that bill against us.
Gobama! Man.. give the guy a break! He's been cleaning up lincoln logs off of the oval office floor from the last 8 yrs!! I think he's doing just fine..
This is awesome. Finally the President of the United States has officially proclaimed June a gay civil rights month. This is valid proof that we do have strong support from the Obama Administration. As for changing and overturning discriminatory policies and laws against us gays, hey it is not going to happen overnight or in a few months so you guys need to stop getting so bent out of shape about the progress the Obama Administration is making in regards to civil rights. These major changes are going to take time. I wish some of you critics of Obama would stop claiming he is conservative and blasting him for everything that he is trying to do for the benefit of our great country. He is not going to throw us under a moving bus and he is not going to totally abandon his promises to us and every other American. These are major cultural changes and things like that take a long time to implement. Stop expecting him to change everything overnight.
Sweetie. Totally understood what you meant. You would have been better off using Malcom X or Marcus Garvey as examples for African Americans who were not patient within the civil rights movements NOT Rosa Parks.
Have you ever been to court or any legal anything? In the USA, they always say "year of our Lord". That is the legal way of saying the date.
and if we're being technical, the only reason we consider this year to be 2009 verses anything else, is because of a calendar based on Jesus Christ.
Jesus Christ, the great conglomeration of Egyptian, Roman, and Greek mythos probably would not (even if he existed) have given a flying f#ck about the calendar. I say we move to a more scientific standard for enumerating the movements of the cosmos. Let's not spare his feelings, he's been dead for 2000 years (err. wait, no, forever - he's been dead forever).
Ducky45 saidSweetie. Totally understood what you meant. You would have been better off using Malcom X or Marcus Garvey as examples for African Americans who were not patient within the civil rights movements NOT Rosa Parks.
You missed the bus on that one.
honeydew, sugar plum. who said anything about patience within a movement? how about patience for status quo?
i don't take the bus b/c my man bobama takes care of his brothazzz... brothas as in his boys downtown of course, what'd ya think?
roadbikeRob saidThis is awesome. Finally the President of the United States has officially proclaimed June a gay civil rights month. This is valid proof that we do have strong support from the Obama Administration. As for changing and overturning discriminatory policies and laws against us gays, hey it is not going to happen overnight or in a few months so you guys need to stop getting so bent out of shape about the progress the Obama Administration is making in regards to civil rights. These major changes are going to take time. I wish some of you critics of Obama would stop claiming he is conservative and blasting him for everything that he is trying to do for the benefit of our great country. He is not going to throw us under a moving bus and he is not going to totally abandon his promises to us and every other American. These are major cultural changes and things like that take a long time to implement. Stop expecting him to change everything overnight.
Can anyone explain WHY these things can't be done overnight? If Obama wanted these changes, he has the power to make them happen.
oh dear god... aren't you the same people who, a few months ago, were prosylatizing for obama?? what i'm really getting ready to tear new assholes over is the gays who are going to suddenly forgive decades of destructive evil being committed by dick cheney now that he has given his support to gay unions.
I dont like or agree with Chaney but he did offer some level of support for civil unions a few years ago.
I am so against Obama that its not even funny. Actually Im against all Democrats and Republicans. Which means Im pretty much an Independant.
Clinton threw us a bone during his 8 years by issuing the same proclomation about June being gay rights month. While not actually extending any rights to us. He did give us DADT and DOMA! In a way further alienating us.
Im sure Obama will do something similiar. He will revamp DADT and maybe DOMA in a way that makes it appear he did something but not really. And he will probably sign the hate crime legeslation into law. And that is it.
Im sure some of you on here will pee your pants out of excitement over the 3 things above. And you will probably beat those of us who see thru them over the head with them. But at the end of the day we are all still third class citizens.
I might be wrong but who knows. I agree with whoever said that if we dont see action during his first year we wont see any at all.
Now anyonme wanting to do something about this in a pro active politically uncorrect way. Email me I got a few ideas.
dancerjack said oh dear god... aren't you the same people who, a few months ago, were prosylatizing for obama?
No, Jack, not me at least. I was a Hillary guy. Obama never convinced me, and that McClurkin business gave me the impression of his indifference to us. Everyone tried to convince me otherwise, even my kids (who worked for his campaign), and I did vote for him, but I never lost my misgivings.
Now I am sure I was correct. He doesn't hate us. He just doesn't care in the least. We're not on his radar.
No, Jack, not me at least. I was a Hillary guy. Obama never convinced me, and that McClurkin business gave me the impression of his indifference to us. Everyone tried to convince me otherwise, even my kids (who worked for his campaign), and I did vote for him, but I never lost my misgivings.
Now I am sure I was correct. He doesn't hate us. He just doesn't care in the least. We're not on his radar.[/quote]
I think we are on his radar, but just barely. Otherwise this proclamation would never have happened. The question is, will he throw us under the bus like Bill Clinton did? A few months ago I would have said no. Speeches are nice, but I see no action being made on our behalf.
TexanMan82 saidMake no mistake, Obama can end the discharge of homosexual service members with the stroke of a pen.
Why doesn't he?
Exactly. I understand that some things take time. I get that, but what about the things he can do with the stroke of a pen. Why would he not do those things if he didn't plan on throwing us under the bus.
jprichva saidOh my, this certainly makes up for reversing course on DADT and DOMA.
Proclamations are cheap.
Agreed!! A nice gesture, but seriously, we have been celebrating gay pride in June for years.
Demand Equality.
We are a citizens of the USA!
We are not seperate but equal.
If in the late sixties MLK would have listened to those who tried to convince him that "progress takes time (to be patient)" then Obama would not have likely become president and of course then poor Michelle could not have been more proud of her country then she was that day.
Texanman82Make no mistake, Obama can end the discharge of homosexual service members with the stroke of a pen.
Why doesn't he?
Because Obama is, above all else, a "pragmatist." This is just the newest version of Clintonism, triangulation, and DLC garbage. I believe he is sincere in trying to seek "common ground" and do things by building consensus, and in some areas that can be effective. But when you are addressing the issue of civil rights, that really cannot work. You cannot say "let's just listen to all sides and find a middle ground" when you are talking about civil rights. If we did that we would still have segregated schools, anti-miscegenation laws.
There really is no middle ground here. Our side wants to be treated like everyone else, the opposition wants us to have nothing, to be second class citizens. Would you have told Susan B. Anthony or Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. that they just needed to compromise, because their demands were too controversial? No, because that is a morally bankrupt position, and wouldn't get anywhere. Bull Connor and George Wallace were not about to compromise. If you give an inch, they'll only move to pull you further, they won't give any ground in return.
To return to my main point: you cannot be a "pragmatist" when dealing with civil rights. You must be bold and unequivocal. Anything less is doomed to be ineffective. However, politicians are first and foremost concerned with perpetuating themselves in office. Principles and ideals rarely are held sincerely and even more rarely fought for. Even if I believed that Obama truly supported us (and I am highly skeptical), he is just another typical politician, unwilling to take a stand on anything that hasn't been polled and focus-grouped and shown to be supported by a healthy majority.
p.s. I was certainly not one of those who was singing his praises from the mountain tops. I voted for him, but I was under no delusion that he would be a liberal or a change agent (despite his campaign slogan). I can't stand people who defend him for doing many of the same things Bush did (Gitmo, spying, secrecy, frightening claims of executive power) but claim it is different because he is doing them. I agree with him on many things, but I will not hesitate to call him out when I think he is wrong.
Texanman82Make no mistake, Obama can end the discharge of homosexual service members with the stroke of a pen.
Why doesn't he?
Because Obama is, above all else, a "pragmatist." This is just the newest version of Clintonism, triangulation, and DLC garbage. I believe he is sincere in trying to seek "common ground" and do things by building consensus, and in some areas that can be effective. But when you are addressing the issue of civil rights, that really cannot work. You cannot say "let's just listen to all sides and find a middle ground" when you are talking about civil rights. If we did that we would still have segregated schools, anti-miscegenation laws.
There really is no middle ground here. Our side wants to be treated like everyone else, the opposition wants us to have nothing, to be second class citizens. Would you have told Susan B. Anthony or Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. that they just needed to compromise, because their demands were too controversial? No, because that is a morally bankrupt position, and wouldn't get anywhere. Bull Connor and George Wallace were not about to compromise. If you give an inch, they'll only move to pull you further, they won't give any ground in return.
To return to my main point: you cannot be a "pragmatist" when dealing with civil rights. You must be bold and unequivocal. Anything less is doomed to be ineffective. However, politicians are first and foremost concerned with perpetuating themselves in office. Principles and ideals rarely are held sincerely and even more rarely fought for. Even if I believed that Obama truly supported us (and I am highly skeptical), he is just another typical politician, unwilling to take a stand on anything that hasn't been polled and focus-grouped and shown to be supported by a healthy majority.
p.s. I was certainly not one of those who was singing his praises from the mountain tops. I voted for him, but I was under no delusion that he would be a liberal or a change agent (despite his campaign slogan). I can't stand people who defend him for doing many of the same things Bush did (Gitmo, spying, secrecy, frightening claims of executive power) but claim it is different because he is doing them. I agree with him on many things, but I will not hesitate to call him out when I think he is wrong.
I think I'm in love. Seriously, very nicely written.
the man's gotta golf, propose an extra $30 billion of your taxes on GM post-bankruptcy claims, and keep my bosses' fiscal health priority..
silly fags
oh, and i voted blue.. our firm correctly assumed which way the bailout would fall..so technically, i love the guy. he put me in a position (hai tarp) where i make an amount where MFS > MFJ even if i did have the right... l'chaim
Caslon11000 saidhmmm...I dont care for the support for civil unions...bet he wouldnt have liked "separate but equal"
and what's with the "year of our lord"??? ...
I agree when is Obama going to separate himself from Carrie Prejean on this issue. Hope or Hype, how long do we give this guy? I fear his supporters will demand we give him a full eight years even as the stand in line at the unemployment office.
Tapper saidIt is disturbing that Obama comes out with his proclamation after Cheney's positive stance on gay rights. Simple coincidence, or was Obama actually trumped by his political nemesis? I fear the latter. And Cheney's endorsement of state-sanctioned marriage for gays appears to put him to the left of Obama, since Obama says he supports civil unions rather than marriage for same-sex couples.
What's going on here? The more I research this, the more pissed off I become.
I'm not shooting myself in the foot. I'm simply tired of being asked to have patience.
Actually this leave it up to the states thing is not new. Obama proposed federal civil unions, but has said that "marriage" should be left up to the states .. that is the same as what Cheney said so don't feel too proud of Cheney:
The Improbable QuestOne of Obama’s pragmatic stands troubling to progressives is on gay marriage. In the Senate debate, Obama opposed the right-wing Federal Marriage Amendment to ban gay marriage nationally and said: “I agree with most Americans, with Democrats and Republicans, with Vice President Cheney, with over 2,000 religious leaders of all different beliefs, that decisions about marriage, as they always have, should be left to the states.” However, Obama also declared, “Personally, I do believe that marriage is between a man and a woman.” At the same time, Obama has strongly supported civil unions, arguing that it is a way to protect equal rights without taking the politically risky approach of gay marriage. Source: The Improbable Quest, by John K. Wilson, p.114-115 Oct 30, 2007
In addition Obama opposed prop 8 and opposes marriage bans in general:
Los Angeles Times Jul 2, 2008Obama first announced his opposition to the measure only in response to media inquiries. He said the nation should recognize lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender Americans “with full equality under the law.”
Obama called the ballot measure “divisive and discriminatory” and concluded by congratulating “all of you who have shown your love for each other by getting married these last few weeks.” Left unstated was that Obama has declined to endorse gay marriage, saying that civil unions would suffice to protect partners’ rights. Source: By Michael Finnegan and Cathleen Decker, Los Angeles Times Jul 2, 2008
I believe that Obama will not stand in the way of same-sex marriage and maybe he can be nudged back to the position he had at one time (pro same-sex marriage). The problem with Politicians in general like most of the Ca. Supreme Court Justices is that they are afraid of the voters.
In California for example, Domestic Partnerships are viewed as sufficient replacement to marriage by the Supreme Court for gays in regard to rights offered so there is no need to 'change' marriage to include gay couples.
This is one of the reasons why part-way civil right laws don't work. It just strengthens separate but equal treatment.
Tapper saidIt is disturbing that Obama comes out with his proclamation after Cheney's positive stance on gay rights. Simple coincidence, or was Obama actually trumped by his political nemesis? I fear the latter. And Cheney's endorsement of state-sanctioned marriage for gays appears to put him to the left of Obama, since Obama says he supports civil unions rather than marriage for same-sex couples.
What's going on here? The more I research this, the more pissed off I become.
I'm not shooting myself in the foot. I'm simply tired of being asked to have patience.
Agreed. It's just words and I'm tired of it. I really don't understand how a half-black man can sit there and tout civil unions in place of marriages for gay people. Can he not see the parallel between interracial marriages and gay marriages?
Hey Anto, one step at a time is meant as just that: progress. But not all at once as you're in a country where tomorrow more human rights could be put to a public vote.
We believe he is coaxing change rather than forcing it.
Separate but equal is not progress, like I said, the supreme court in California talked as if there were no rights being infringed upon since gays had access to domestic partnerships instead of marriage.
Do you see how that created a road block in the progress for gay marriage in California? It would have been better that domestic partnerships didn't exist. It made people who wanted something quickly happy, but it really screwed us over in the long run
Oh say Anto, we sure do see what you're getting at. We think so far it's all been horrible. But this is a small gain, and every small victory should be celebrated and built upon. We feel ladders are climbed a rung at a time.
The most gays got up here was a recognized week, not a month. Unlike the US the government did not put gay marriage to a public vote. It's a more 'social democracy'.
Anto saidSeparate but equal is not progress, like I said, the supreme court in California talked as if there were no rights being infringed upon since gays had access to domestic partnerships instead of marriage.
Do you see how that created a road block in the progress for gay marriage in California? It would have been better that domestic partnerships didn't exist. It made people who wanted something quickly happy, but it really screwed us over in the long run
I don't think the Justices really thought this (that domestic partnership is the same as marriage). They certainly did not think it was equal when they ruled against it the first time. I think now they are just afraid of voters (except Justice Carlos R. Moreno who dissented).
The Justices have to know better than to say marriage and partnerships are equal if they aware of California law (which I am sure they are): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_partnership_in_California * Couples seeking domestic partnership must already share a residence, married couples may be married without living together. * Couples seeking domestic partnership must be 18 or older, minors can be married before the age of 18 with the consent of their parents. * California permits married couples the option of confidential marriage, there is no equivalent institution for domestic partnerships. In confidential marriages, no witnesses are required and the marriage license is not a matter of public record. * Married partners of state employees are eligible for the CalPERS long-term care insurance plan, domestic partners are not. * There is, at least according to one appellate ruling, no equivalent of the Putative Spouse Doctrine for domestic partnerships. [3]
and in eligiblity
Currently, a couple that wishes to register must meet the following requirements: 1. Both persons have a common residence. 2. Neither person is married to someone else or is a member of another domestic partnership with someone else that has not been terminated, dissolved, or adjudged a nullity. 3. The two persons are not related by blood in a way that would prevent them from being married to each other in California. 4. Both persons are at least 18 years of age. 5. Either of the following: * Both persons are members of the same sex. * The partners are of the opposite sex, one or both of whom is above the age of 62, and one or both of whom meet specified eligibility requirements under the Social Security Act. 6. Both persons are capable of consenting to the domestic partnership.
Domestic partnership is purposely "watered down" so that straight seniors do not loose certain federal benefits that they would lose if they were married. So it is expressly NOT equal to marriage.
QUOTE AUTHOR GOES HEREI don't think the Justices really thought this (that domestic partnership is the same as marriage). They certainly did not think it was equal when they ruled against it the first time. I think now they are just afraid of voters (except Justice Carlos R. Moreno who dissented).
Possibly but when it was being debated again a few months ago, one of the justice people made a comment about what rights were being taken away that domestic partnerships didn't cover or something like that, but she didn't say it like she was being critical of domestic partnerships but in regard to the debate of inequality in regard to gay's not being allowed the title of marriage.
And yeah I know domestic partnerships are not equal to marriage. The rules for it are different. I also think it's discriminatory against straights because unless they are older and for that SS benefit, straights can't have domestic partnerships either..
It seems so logical to me about how it's wrong.. I get so frustrated thinking about it.
Obama isn't going to move any gay rights issues forward. He can give lip-service to gays and it's better politically then actually doing anything. It means he can appear to be a liberal on the point, without actually doing anything that would piss off the middle of the road dems, reps and independents who don't want Gay Marriage approved.
This will continue to be the case for some time. Ohio is a bellwether state for the nation and legalized gay marriage in Ohio is laughable. We have a long way to go.
Politically we best keep it off the Federal level and fight for it state by state - when enough states tip in the direction of acceptance others will follow so as not to appear uncivilized. But some states will cling to the bigotry for another 75 years. It will take all the 'old guard' of bigots dying off to actual bring about a change in these placed.
So drop expecting Obama to do anything huge and be content with him not letting it go backwards at the Federal level or getting some baby steps done.
A full acceptance of all things gay by Obama would just alienate a bunch of independents who took a chance on him - and the next election could through Reps back in power.
Did I click on RealJock or RealRant? Gosh guys, give Obama a break. He's trying to do more for us than any other president ever thought of doing. Get into a snit into his not doing everything as lickety-split as you like. Politics is the art of the possible.
antelope saidHe's trying to do more for us than any other president ever thought of doing.
Like....?
taxing blacks, gays, and middle class to reallocate wealth back to us bankers and calling it a bailout (we let his administration keep 1% - suckas).. how else can we sustain a life of models and bottles, duhhhh
antelope saidHe's trying to do more for us than any other president ever thought of doing.
Like....?
Like "trying" to repeal DADT and DOMA. Hasn't done it but is trying.
So, in the meantime, why doesn't Obama sign an EO banning the discharge of homosexuals from the military? That would be a HUGE sign that he was willing to battle for us. Until then, these proclamations ring hollow.
So, in the meantime, why doesn't Obama sign an EO banning the discharge of homosexuals from the military? That would be a HUGE sign that he was willing to battle for us. Until then, these proclamations ring hollow.[/quote]
Exactly, don't throw me some breadcrumbs and tell me it's a steak. The proclamations words are hollow if there is no indication of any action.
antelope saidHe's trying to do more for us than any other president ever thought of doing.
Like....?
Like "trying" to repeal DADT and DOMA. Hasn't done it but is trying.
So, in the meantime, why doesn't Obama sign an EO banning the discharge of homosexuals from the military? That would be a HUGE sign that he was willing to battle for us. Until then, these proclamations ring hollow.
Or how bout, for the time being, gay people in the military keep their mouths shut about their sexuality, and give the guy a chance to do it properly.
cruelsummer said Or how bout, for the time being, gay people in the military keep their mouths shut about their sexuality, and give the guy a chance to do it properly.
Right. That works oh so well for the many who were 'outed' when their homophobic fellow soldiers and superiors were searching for evidence on the intertubes.
cruelsummer said Or how bout, for the time being, gay people in the military keep their mouths shut about their sexuality, and give the guy a chance to do it properly.
Right. That works oh so well for the many who were 'outed' when their homophobic fellow soldiers and superiors were searching for evidence on the intertubes.
Do you know anyone that was "outed"? How about you look at the structure of that law -- they cannot search anyone's sexuality without "evidence." Dan Choi came out on MSNBC. You don't think that was silly at all? The law itself might be a joke, but it's the law, and until it's repealed, I will not make excuses to why military gay men and women are being discharged.
cruelsummer said Or how bout, for the time being, gay people in the military keep their mouths shut about their sexuality, and give the guy a chance to do it properly.
Right. That works oh so well for the many who were 'outed' when their homophobic fellow soldiers and superiors were searching for evidence on the intertubes.
Do you know anyone that was "outed"? How about you look at the structure of that law -- they cannot search anyone's sexuality without "evidence." Dan Choi came out on MSNBC. You don't think that was silly at all? The law itself might be a joke, but it's the law, and until it's repealed, I will not make excuses to why military gay men and women are being discharged.
dude, if those people don't come out and continue to show how unfair it is, your president will do fuck all to change the status quo.
cruelsummer said Or how bout, for the time being, gay people in the military keep their mouths shut about their sexuality, and give the guy a chance to do it properly.
Right. That works oh so well for the many who were 'outed' when their homophobic fellow soldiers and superiors were searching for evidence on the intertubes.
Do you know anyone that was "outed"? How about you look at the structure of that law -- they cannot search anyone's sexuality without "evidence." Dan Choi came out on MSNBC. You don't think that was silly at all? The law itself might be a joke, but it's the law, and until it's repealed, I will not make excuses to why military gay men and women are being discharged.
cruelsummer said Or how bout, for the time being, gay people in the military keep their mouths shut about their sexuality, and give the guy a chance to do it properly.
Right. That works oh so well for the many who were 'outed' when their homophobic fellow soldiers and superiors were searching for evidence on the intertubes.
Do you know anyone that was "outed"? How about you look at the structure of that law -- they cannot search anyone's sexuality without "evidence." Dan Choi came out on MSNBC. You don't think that was silly at all? The law itself might be a joke, but it's the law, and until it's repealed, I will not make excuses to why military gay men and women are being discharged.
Yes for example recently: "The winner of nine air medals for distinguished service in flight, including one for heroism the night U.S. forces captured Baghdad International Airport in 2003, Fehrenbach is in the process of getting kicked out of the military a year after an acquaintance told his bosses he was gay." http://www.ktvb.com/news/localnews/stories/ktvbn-may2909-mtn_home_airman.2ac57cfa.html
He does make the mistake of thinking, "For 18 years, I played by the rules and I kept my private life private."
Unfortunately, the armed forces policy in regard to homosexuality applies 24/7 while a person is in the armed forces, meaning, the policy against homosexuality applies both in private life and public, while serving, on or off base. There is no such thing as it being acceptable as long as you keep it private, it's still a violation of the policy.
antelope saidHe's trying to do more for us than any other president ever thought of doing.
Like....?
Like "trying" to repeal DADT and DOMA. Hasn't done it but is trying.
So, in the meantime, why doesn't Obama sign an EO banning the discharge of homosexuals from the military? That would be a HUGE sign that he was willing to battle for us. Until then, these proclamations ring hollow.
Or how bout, for the time being, gay people in the military keep their mouths shut about their sexuality, and give the guy a chance to do it properly.
You're not getting are you? President Obama has the power--right now--to end the discharging of any homosexual members. He can order it, and it will be done. Why are you defending his inaction on the matter? Yes, to have DADT fully removed from the books, it will take an act of Congress. But, he can still take the teeth out of that policy with an EO.
To TexanMan82, You are forgetting one important little item, Obama is the president of the United States not the absolute dictator of the United States. He just can't make all the overdue changes overnight, many of these changes are going to take time. He is only one person. As for getting rid of DADT it is much easier said than done. There are a lot of potentially serious factors to consider before making a change like that in the US Military. The possible, powerful backlash by conservative military servicemen could make things much worse for gay servicemembers. There are many different social and political factors at play here which is going to make the repeal of DADT a very risky move.
roadbikeRob saidTo TexanMan82, You are forgetting one important little item, Obama is the president of the United States not the absolute dictator of the United States. He just can't make all the overdue changes overnight, many of these changes are going to take time. He is only one person. As for getting rid of DADT it is much easier said than done. There are a lot of potentially serious factors to consider before making a change like that in the US Military. The possible, powerful backlash by conservative military servicemen could make things much worse for gay servicemembers. There are many different social and political factors at play here which is going to make the repeal of DADT a very risky move.
Who said anything about Obama acting as a dictator? It's simple. Sign an EO, and voila, done. No more discharging of homosexual service members. He's the Commander in Chief, correct?
What "powerful backlash by conservative military servicemen" are you talking about? Disobeying a direct order from the their Commander in Chief?
Should Truman have waited until everybody was on board with integration of the military?
antelope saidHe's trying to do more for us than any other president ever thought of doing.
Like....?
Like "trying" to repeal DADT and DOMA. Hasn't done it but is trying.
So, in the meantime, why doesn't Obama sign an EO banning the discharge of homosexuals from the military? That would be a HUGE sign that he was willing to battle for us. Until then, these proclamations ring hollow.
Or how bout, for the time being, gay people in the military keep their mouths shut about their sexuality, and give the guy a chance to do it properly.
You're not getting are you? President Obama has the power--right now--to end the discharging of any homosexual members. He can order it, and it will be done. Why are you defending his inaction on the matter? Yes, to have DADT fully removed from the books, it will take an act of Congress. But, he can still take the teeth out of that policy with an EO.
No, I'm getting it very well. I still don't think he should issue an EO, just an opinion. Doesn't mean I'm not gay as someone pointed out, it just means, that we've lived with this horrible policy for 15 years--one or two more wouldn't hurt.
If Barack Obama was the man we thought he was, he would just get up and say discrimination is wrong, Black, White, Gay, Straight. He hasn't. He would not make speeches hiding the words and finessing the words, he would come right out and say it. But he has not and he will not. He was happy to take Gay money when he was running for office but what has he done for us since he became President? What? Name a single thing. Oh he is too busy. He will get to us eventually. Suckers.
but even though he may not be able to repeal DADT he can issue a stop order especally when it's someone that did'nt tell and was'nt asked but outed.I mean that was the point of DADT right so gay men&women can serve.I know the marriage part will take longer but we are in a war now and we need all of the solders we have.God forbid that NK actually tries or succeeds in launching a missile at us and we have another front to fight on.And the Pres needs another press guy the one he has now is as articulate as a rock.
Hope or Hype, how long do we give this guy? I fear his supporters will demand we give him a full eight years even as the stand in line at the unemployment office.
