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Jun 02, 2009 9:04 AM GMT
we did everything but fuck. before i left his place, he went into his email and when his inbox came up, i saw a message from "poz personals." i asked him if he was positive and he said yes.
i told him i wish he'd told me sooner, and he said he was waiting for the right time, and would have told me before we actually did it/ if i'd ASKED him sooner. he also said his viral load was too low for meds, and you can't contract it from a blow job. (i swallowed a huge load.)
i can't find any conlcusive reasearch on the internet to this effect. does anyone know of a reliable resource for this question?
and... should i be pissed? i'm already pissed at myself, but is it normal/reasonable for positive guys to not disclose until anal sex is on the table, or was that fucked up? i had a condom accident a while back and my internist said false negatives happen from six months to a year after exposure, so that means i'll havesome anxiety about my status for a while. any good info would be much appreciated.
-robby
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Jun 02, 2009 10:20 AM GMT
The CDC website says one can contact HIV from oral sex. the following is copied from their web site Yes, it is possible for either partner to become infected with HIV through performing or receiving oral sex. There have been a few cases of HIV transmission from performing oral sex on a person infected with HIV. While no one knows exactly what the degree of risk is, evidence suggests that the risk is less than that of unprotected anal or vaginal sex. http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/qa/qa19.htmThe risk from oral sex is very small...Actually it is far less than what the CDC implies on their site...The CDC is being cautious The CDC has a tool free number... call them today about what followup is appropriate for you. You can also check with your physician or local health department.. call CDC-INFO 24 Hours/Day at 1-800-CDC-INFO (232-4636), 1-888-232-6348 (TTY), in English, en Espaņol. I assume you have been immunized for Hep B...Hep B is sexually transmitted and can cause chronic hepatitis and cirrhosis.. You need to assume that anyone that you have sex with has a contagious STD and then take appropriate precautions..There are a lot of young guys out there that are HIV positive but don't know it. As you discovered, there are guys with known HIV who are not going to tell you... |
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Jun 02, 2009 10:29 AM GMT
He's right you know. You have to ASK. Don't assume someone is negative from outright, and didn't someone ever tell you not to swallow either? It's not easy disclosing being positive, so you have to make the first step.
And yes you can contract it from a blowjob by nature of it being serocontagious, but the statistical data on it is inconclusive (go to the website kneedraggen linked), so it's safe to say it's very very rare.
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Jun 02, 2009 10:36 AM GMT
IMHO, he definitely should have told you before sharing any body fluids with you, since there is some chance of contracting it. I would definitely expose his status to people that I knew and everybody else. If he isnt going to be responsible, then people should know so that they can protect themselves.
However, the chances of catching it from oral sex are so low that you arent going to catch it.
So take a deep breath and relax.
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Jun 02, 2009 10:50 AM GMT
I concur with all the replies above about oral risk. It exists but is low. Nevertheless, get yourself tested in a few months, which sexually active gay men should do regularly anyway. The markers for HIV won't appear for several months if you were infected.
Safe sex means assuming every sexual partner is infected, even if he doesn't know it himself, which is quite possible. So even if you ask him beforehand, he may unwittingly give you a false answer of being negative.
But since this guy knew he was poz, I do think he should have volunteered the info before you gave him a BJ. That was poor behavior on his part, IMHO. And you should get into the habit of asking.
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Jun 02, 2009 11:34 AM GMT
Before anything sexual happened, he should have told you and you should have asked. Oral may not carry as high a risk as anal, but it's still a rick and you should have been informed.
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Jun 02, 2009 3:26 PM GMT
I know around 5 guys that have become HIV+ recently (young and older) . Some swear they don't know how they got it. The drugs and the low viral load thing seem to have caused a irresponsible, relaxed attitude..by POZ guys as you have experienced. It seems like it is now politically correct to suppress the info that HIV infection is up again. .
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Jun 02, 2009 3:30 PM GMT
Alpha13 said It seems like it is now politically correct to suppress the info that HIV infection is up again. . It sadly, is beyond that. It has morphed into a a subculture of rites and rituals. See Tim Dean's Unlimited Intimacy |
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Jun 02, 2009 3:32 PM GMT
Pinny...you linked back to the forum itself, not to amazon.
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Jun 02, 2009 3:32 PM GMT
I would think if you were about to swallow and having intense oral sex,
he should have said something... anytime you are put in any sort of increased risk, a responsible guy should say something.
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Jun 02, 2009 3:34 PM GMT
Ok, I'm going to diverge from the HIV issue here and bluntly ask why in the hell people are swallowing the cum of complete strangers??? Seriously. There are just some things you should NOT do until you actually get to know someone.
And while being mindful of HIV is wise...what about gonorrhea, chlamydia, syphilis, etc., etc.
Edit: Ok, my tone above might be slightly judgmental, but dammit all to hell people we have to be responsible for our safety. Don't depend on others to keep you safe.
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Jun 02, 2009 3:42 PM GMT
Wow! Sorry you're going through this. I imagine no matter how often you here that the risk of being infected via oral sex is low, you must be worried sick.
Anything that anyone tells you on here or that you read from any source is, be its very nature, based on statistics in large populations. My hunch is that what you need to feel reasonably at ease is definitive information about whether YOU have been infected.
The best way to get that information is to contact your doctor or an STI clinic. There are some tests than give preliminary results of whether you've been infected very soon after exposure. It may also be possible to be prescribed prophylactic doses of anti-retrovirals. You can also be put on a schedule for follow up monitoring. Even if the initial test is negative, it would be wise to be tested again at 90 days and six months.
Best of luck. It really is unlikely that you have been infected. I hope you get back all negative test results and your peace of mind as soon as possible.
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Jun 02, 2009 3:43 PM GMT
Pissed?? Maybe! Disturbed? Yes. Bothered? Yes. He should have been up front about it!
In regards to the oral sex and HIV, and NOT down playing being safe, one time when I went in for my tests, I FREAKED out due to some oral that went TOO far. Anyways, the Counselor on duty shared this with me; he said it was SAFER to swallow than it was to hold the semen in your mouth because IF you have any open wounds in your moth, mind you they need to be pretty MAJOR ones too, the semen would then penetrate the wound and enter your system that way and that typically happens, he said, if you hold it in your mouth too long (my reaction was, "What, so they store this shit like chipmunks do nuts??"). He said by swallowing your risk of infection is actually lowers, go figure!
Anyways, everyone should be up front and honest about their status ESPECIALLY when any kind of intimacy is going to occur!!!
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Jun 02, 2009 3:53 PM GMT
The best course of action is not to engage in the fuck anything that walks game.
You need to take the view that anyone can be positive, and never, ever, never, believe someone if they say they're not sick. They could very well have the virus and not know it.
Understand many of these folks got into their situations through careless, selfish, idiotic, behavior, and don't have the best track records of being decent, responsible, civic-minded people that are concerned about themselves and others. They live in an I,I,I,me,me,me, world of self-indulgence where everything is about them and fuck everyone else, and, of course, from their view nothing that happens is / was their responsibility.
Understand that sex with strangers is raw, and dangerous. Understand that sex with folks you know is not quite as dangerous, but, by its very nature sex is raw and has many inherent risks.
You'll need to get tested every few months for up to a year and 1/2 (but, I've heard the virus is generally detectable much sooner) unless you do the more expensive tests, right away.
Take with you a lesson, and take it to others. HIV is nearly 100% preventable.
Educate yourself about the myths, and the reality, of careless sexual behavior. Oral sex certainly isn't without risk, but, it's not as risky as being bottom in bare-backing.
In any event, whatever will happen will happen. You now need to lead and let others know it's NOT o.k. to behave poorly.
Don't put someone else through the crap you're dealing with now.
Step up, learn, become a leader, and a better man for it.
Never forget, especially with strangers, some folks are scum; some folks are just plain idiots. YOU SHOULD ASSUME THE OTHER PERSON COULD BE SICK. YOU SHOULD ALWAYS TAKE A DEFENSIVE POSITION WITH REGARD TO SEX.
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Jun 02, 2009 3:55 PM GMT
Alpha13 saidI know around 5 guys that have become HIV+ recently (young and older) . Some swear they don't know how they got it. The drugs and the low viral load thing seem to have caused a irresponsible, relaxed attitude..by POZ guys as you have experienced. It seems like it is now politically correct to suppress the info that HIV infection is up again. . The ones who swear they don't know how they got it, more than like just don't know WHO they got it from, because they were regularly engaging in high-risk activity. I'm not judging, I'm just saying I'd rather someone own up to it than give me some BS. As to the OP... its true they don't have to say anything if you don't ask. Its not rude to ask. In fact, I'd be happier and more comfortable with a guy who outright says he's positive to me, than a "negative" or "don't know" guy who isn't upfront. The question I want to ask you is if he had told you upfront that he was poz, would you have treated him differently? Would you have gone to his house? People have so much anxiety and negativity towards positive people, even to the point where people treat them as less-than-human. Then you wonder why people don't disclose their status. The other question I have is: If you hadn't found that stuff in his email, would you have had a return trip to his place? Had anal sex? When would you have asked? What if it never came up? Its easy to be complacent with someone you consider a "fuck buddy" or a "regular". I don't judge people who sero-convert. I don't judge people who play safe 100% of the time because they want to stay negative. I don't enjoy people who hide in the shadows and engage in high risk behavior and still cling to their negativity and start flinging mud at people who are positive (most of whom are up front and responsible about their status) Above all, your body is your temple and your responsibility. I'm not saying what you did was wrong, I'm just saying everyone has to look at themselves and what they did before they go off blaming others. EDIT: Rob, I'm not singling you out personally with most of what I said. It may apply to you, it may not... I'm just tired of the blame always being placed first on the poz guy. While they do hold a large part of the responsibility... it takes two to tango. |
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Jun 02, 2009 4:03 PM GMT
I'm going through my own little scare right now man. I tested negative a month after, but still have some followups to do. Just be safe with whoever you are with. Good luck with everything, and hang in there. I know it's a rough thing.
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Jun 02, 2009 4:12 PM GMT
Robadob saidwe did everything but fuck. before i left his place, he went into his email and when his inbox came up, i saw a message from "poz personals." i asked him if he was positive and he said yes.
i told him i wish he'd told me sooner, and he said he was waiting for the right time, and would have told me before we actually did it/ if i'd ASKED him sooner. he also said his viral load was too low for meds, and you can't contract it from a blow job. (i swallowed a huge load.)
i can't find any conlcusive reasearch on the internet to this effect. does anyone know of a reliable resource for this question?
and... should i be pissed? i'm already pissed at myself, but is it normal/reasonable for positive guys to not disclose until anal sex is on the table, or was that fucked up? i had a condom accident a while back and my internist said false negatives happen from six months to a year after exposure, so that means i'll havesome anxiety about my status for a while. any good info would be much appreciated.
-robby Yo, dancerjack posted info on a new site on awareness check it out and follow the rules, baby! http://www.fc-kits.org/hotsafersex.htmlspontanity is great but it means putting yourself at risk. |
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Jun 02, 2009 4:18 PM GMT
Pinny saidAlpha13 said It seems like it is now politically correct to suppress the info that HIV infection is up again. .
It sadly, is beyond that. It has morphed into a a subculture of rites and rituals. See Tim Dean's Unlimited Intimacy [I just edited Pinny's link. That's all] |
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Jun 02, 2009 4:35 PM GMT
There are two things about this thread that amazes me:
1) How people give a rat's ass about HIV & AIDS before sex and feel the cold, icy grips of the Grim Reaper just because they found out about their hook-up's POZ status AFTER having sex.
2) How some POZ people wonder why on Earth are they still stigmatized after not being forthcoming before sex.
I realize that some POZ persons are upfront, but I'm beginning to see a correlation between the HIV neg guys who aren't honest with themselves about HIV/AIDS and the importance of personal responisbility that goes with it, later carry that same attitude of dishonesty when they become POZ and project that dishonesty by not being forthcoming with potential hook-ups. It's a web of deceipt, rooted in dishonesty and self-gratification, and not in HIV/AIDS status.
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Jun 02, 2009 4:37 PM GMT
coolarmydude saidThere are two things about this thread that amazes me:
1) How people give a rat's ass about HIV & AIDS before sex and feel the cold, icy grips of the Grim Reaper just because they found out about their hook-up's POZ status AFTER having sex.
2) How some POZ people wonder why on Earth are they still stigmatized after not being forthcoming before sex.
I realize that some POZ persons are upfront, but I'm beginning to see a correlation between the HIV neg guys who aren't honest with themselves about HIV/AIDS and the importance of personal responisbility that goes with it, later carry that same attitude of dishonesty when they become POZ and project that dishonesty by not being forthcoming with potential hook-ups. It's a web of deceipt, rooted in dishonesty and self-gratification, and not in HIV/AIDS status. What I don't know can't hurt me.... when has that ever been true? And then, if what you say is true, I wouldn't blame it on the gourp labeled as "POZ" I would label the group "Personally Irresponsible or Ignorant" because not all POZ men are that. |
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Jun 02, 2009 4:44 PM GMT
Assuming he's being honest about his viral load, you are certainly safe. I was with someone for nearly a year who was HIV+ and on antiretroviral drugs for nearly a decade. If someone's viral load is undetectable, the chances of them passing on HIV is minimal, even in optimal circumstances for transmission.
I don't ever remember using a condom during oral sex with him, and I'm still negative.
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Jun 02, 2009 4:44 PM GMT
Let me restate what I did above, about 4 down from the OP, and expand on it:
"Safe sex means assuming every sexual partner is infected, even if he doesn't know it himself, which is quite possible. So even if you ask him beforehand, he may unwittingly give you a false answer of being negative."
Unless the guy has been 100% celibate, or monogamous with you for at least 3 to 6 months since his last negative HIV test, neither you nor he can say with certainty that he's still negative. The guy can show you a wallet card that confirms he tested negative that very morning and it's MEANINGLESS.
He could have been infected during the last 4 to 8 weeks and his HIV results might still be negative, yet he'd be capable of infecting you. The markers in the blood on which HIV tests rely do not appear for months after infection, yet a person is still contagious.
This fact is not well understood, and leads to a false sense of safety in both parties. Safe sex means you treat the other guy like he's infected, period, no matter what he tells you. If a guy told you he was poz, how would you act with him? Behave that same way with everyone.
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Jun 02, 2009 4:48 PM GMT
Red_Vespa said
Unless the guy has been 100% celibate, or monogamous with you for at least 3 to 6 months since his last negative HIV test, neither you nor he can say with certainty that he's still negative. ...and even then, wrapping it is still the best rule of thumb. |
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Jun 02, 2009 5:00 PM GMT
Having been out in the pre-AIDS era, I understand (if not agree with) the guys who bareback. It isn't the same with a condom on. That's no excuse for endangering your health, but I do understand the nostalgia and the impulse.
I suppose that was a politically incorrect thing to admit.
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Jun 02, 2009 5:02 PM GMT
Reading between the lines, my opinion on HIV's communicability through oral sex is that it's not possible unless you have an open cut or sore in your mouth. There's enough convincing evidence out there that IgA (a chemical in your saliva) neutralizes HIV in short order.
In a healthy mouth, the odds are astronomically against contracting HIV through oral. (However, you can get all other sorts of STDs that way, so you should still get yourself checked out.)
Given the frequency with which I've seen gays lie about safe sex, status, etc. I'm almost willing to discount entirely the studies that have suggested contraction of HIV through oral alone is possible, except in cases where there's an open mouth wound. They're entirely based on interviews with men who claimed they only sucked dick and never did anything else unsafe, which provokes major eyerollage from yours truly.
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Jun 02, 2009 5:03 PM GMT
styrgan saidRed_Vespa said
Unless the guy has been 100% celibate, or monogamous with you for at least 3 to 6 months since his last negative HIV test, neither you nor he can say with certainty that he's still negative.
...and even then, wrapping it is still the best rule of thumb. Yes, I was assuming use of a condom during the 6-months following a negative HIV test. After that period, it is possible for 2 negative men to have unprotected sex without a condom if they continue to remain 100% monogamous with each other. But obviously you are placing your life in each other's hands. If one cheats, even once, you can both die. That is exactly what happened to my late partner, when his previous partner cheated and infected him, and they both eventually died of AIDS. Yet I wasn't afraid to live with him and have protected sex, even as the bottom, and I remain negative. I used a condom for oral, too, since I have bad gums and thought that represented too great a risk. I may have taken a slight chance with bare hand jobs, since I've read the eyes may be an HIV entry point, and he could shoot pretty far. |
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Jun 02, 2009 5:12 PM GMT
cubsfan1986 saidAlpha13 saidI know around 5 guys that have become HIV+ recently (young and older) . Some swear they don't know how they got it. The drugs and the low viral load thing seem to have caused a irresponsible, relaxed attitude..by POZ guys as you have experienced. It seems like it is now politically correct to suppress the info that HIV infection is up again. .
The question I want to ask you is if he had told you upfront that he was poz, would you have treated him differently? Would you have gone to his house? People have so much anxiety and negativity towards positive people, even to the point where people treat them as less-than-human. Then you wonder why people don't disclose their status.
Surely you are not arguing that this is a valid reason for someone not to disclose their status? |
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Jun 02, 2009 5:16 PM GMT
jprichva saidHaving been out in the pre-AIDS era, I understand (if not agree with) the guys who bareback. It isn't the same with a condom on. That's no excuse for endangering your health, but I do understand the nostalgia and the impulse.
I suppose that was a politically incorrect thing to admit. No, it's a very honest thing to admit. And a bonus for guys who are 100% monogamous, since as I noted above, that's the one case where you can safely bareback in an LTR. The first guy who ever topped me had insisted he was always safe, despite his being a well-known player, and he used condoms with me. But one morning we were taking a shower together after I had slept over at his place, when he suddenly bent me over and started to enter me bareback as we were standing. It felt SO good, and I was in total lust. He was almost completely inside and already starting to thrust gently when my inner voice suddenly screamed at me: "What the hell are you DOING?" I pulled away from him, and realized that his claims that he was always 100% safe with other guys were likely untrue. If he'd do that with me, he was doing it with others. I stopped going to bed with him from that day forward, though we remained on friendly terms. I'm not still negative by accident. |
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Jun 02, 2009 5:30 PM GMT
There are other diseases you can catch that can be very serious besides HIV. Some people don't even have symptoms of their infections so they don't even realize they are infected and passing it on to others. There really isn't a good way to find out if someone is positive with HIV unless you do a series of tests with them. I know people say you should ask but that doesn't mean anything, the person can lie about their status, or even get infected after taking tests  For the honest people who are positive with HIV you really should tell people up front, even if there isn't going to be sexual contact because the person may still be at risk in other ways, like having to help you if you get hurt in some way that can expose the person to infectious bodily fluids. The onus is on the person who is HIV positive to reveal their status imo because such a person at least knows they are positive and can give that information which is a for sure thing, anything else is based on trust instead of fact. I guess you can say a person saying they are HIV+ can be a lie too, but at least that is the kind of lie that won't give you HIV. |
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Jun 02, 2009 5:58 PM GMT
EEEKKKK! Why aren't you people asking questions and getting to know people before you drink of the golden?
I don't understand! Now I'm freakin out for you, gonna go into my room and shut the door.
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Jun 02, 2009 6:42 PM GMT
I feel for you, but you probably -- PROBABLY -- have little to worry about. You didn't engage in the unsafest activity, but not the safest, either. Odds are that you'll remain negative, but you should get yourself into a clinic for testing.
That said, no, I don't think you have the right to be mad. Should he have told you he is positive. Yes, totally, 100%. Is he an asshole for not telling you? Yes, sure, of course. But, did you ask him if he is positive? No. You assumed he was negative, maybe because he looked healthy, seemed like a nice guy and thought he would tell you voluntarily.
Your mistake.
Men are dogs. Men want to get laid. The fact of the matter is even if you had asked him, he could have lied. Or even better odds are that he doesn't even know his status.
This is a reminder to all of us that you have to take your health in your own hands. You can't trust another guy with that responsibility, because they can -- and will -- let you down. And the risks are too big if they do let you down. The repercussions are life changing.
You HAVE to treat every guy you're with as if he's positive and let that govern how far you're willing to go and under what circumstances.
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Jun 02, 2009 6:57 PM GMT
Blackguy4you saidcubsfan1986 saidAlpha13 saidI know around 5 guys that have become HIV+ recently (young and older) . Some swear they don't know how they got it. The drugs and the low viral load thing seem to have caused a irresponsible, relaxed attitude..by POZ guys as you have experienced. It seems like it is now politically correct to suppress the info that HIV infection is up again. .
The question I want to ask you is if he had told you upfront that he was poz, would you have treated him differently? Would you have gone to his house? People have so much anxiety and negativity towards positive people, even to the point where people treat them as less-than-human. Then you wonder why people don't disclose their status.
Surely you are not arguing that this is a valid reason for someone not to disclose their status? No, there is no valid reason other than fear of getting murdered, which is rarely applicable anymore. I'm merely playing devils advocate. You're supposed to treat people how you would like to be treated, regardless of circumstance. Not saying you should sleep with them, just saying... |
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Jun 02, 2009 7:48 PM GMT
I am sorry for your situation and while you can be a bit angry about the situation, you have to include yourself in that anger. You are personally responsible for your own body. As Timberoo said, he should have told you and you should have asked.
Now, having said that, I don't expect people to always take the high road and not have sex until tests are taken, but in this day and age, doesn't it seem not only prudent, but logical to say that if I have sex without a condom or I engage in highly risky behavior, I may be putting myself in a situation that will affect the rest of my life?
I would have thought that by now, even without a cure, that the romanticizing of sex would have subsided a bit in favor of not just safe sex, but smart sex. And I am still amazed at the number of profiles here which either list no status and no answer to the safe sex question or incredibly, say they are HIV+ and don't always practice safe sex or are HIV- and don't practice safe sex. I wish more of us would take the responsibility to have the test done and deal with the results, for our own sakes as well as the sake of people we will have sex with and HAVE THE CONVERSATION BEFORE IT HAPPENS.
The mindset of "what I don't know can't hurt me" is a load of crap.
Robadob-Good luck. I hope everything turns out ok. Really I do. I hope this experience was also a wake up call for you as well about your outlook and behavior with regard to sex.
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Jun 02, 2009 8:45 PM GMT
cubsfan1986 said, "And then, if what you say is true, I wouldn't blame it on the gourp labeled as "POZ" I would label the group "Personally Irresponsible or Ignorant" because not all POZ men are that."
That's what I said.
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Jun 02, 2009 11:34 PM GMT
wow. thank you all so much for your thoughtful responses. my blood pressure has more or less normalized. special thanks to kneedraggen and runinthecity for helping me clarify an action plan.
i've had some valuable realizations after reviewing all this input. Good questions, Cubsfan1986. The truth is i never would have asked, and never do. I assume that poz men will bring it up before anything happens. I also assume (though i'd never have admitted this 'til now) that everyone i encounter is negative. I really need to interrogate these assumptions, as they are crazy.
in response to the admonishments/ incredulity expressed at me giving a stranger head, i'd suggest that sex is risky whether your doing it on the fly or three weeks into seeing someone. the question is, how do each of us relate to risk? that's where i'm at.
thanks again guys
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Jun 02, 2009 11:44 PM GMT
You should get tested immediately. after 6 months, you should get tested AGAIN. The tests aren't always accurate close to your most current sexual activity It can take 6 months for the virus to show up in a test.
Also, assume sex is like defensive driving. Assume everyone is Positive and if they say they aren't, assume they are lying or don't know.
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Jun 02, 2009 11:47 PM GMT
i did not read all the posts, but I have friends who are trauma surgeons and when they believe they might have been exposed, they get on AZT IMMEDIATELY as a precaution, kinda like a morning after pill. Go to a clinic and find out the recommended course of action. Do not just wait.
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Jun 02, 2009 11:59 PM GMT
athguy9 saidi did not read all the posts, but I have friends who are trauma surgeons and when they believe they might have been exposed, they get on AZT IMMEDIATELY as a precaution, kinda like a morning after pill. Go to a clinic and find out the recommended course of action. Do not just wait. isn't this treatment just for medical professionals? |
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Jun 03, 2009 12:26 AM GMT
I'm inelligible for PEP. This is very good news.
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Jun 03, 2009 12:46 AM GMT
Robadob saidI'm inelligible for PEP. This is very good news. inelligible? or elligible? Do you mind sharing whether you were able to be treated with PEP? I read this article a while back, and it was news to me, so I am curious. Obviously, I don't think anyone would recommend this as a regular habit --it is not to be used as a method of prevention after having unprotected sex all the time, but more like a last ditch effort to do what you can to prevent what may from accidents that have occured. In his post he recommends that if you do get exposed that you seek PEP within 36 hours. http://spinellimd.wordpress.com/2008/11/23/sunday-morning-brunch-coffee-but-hold-the-cream/Anyway, best of luck to you. |
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Jun 03, 2009 3:57 AM GMT
you have to qualify for PEP. by their estimation, it is exceedingly unlikely that i've been infected. it would've been nice go on the regiment anyway for complete peace of mind, so i'm seeing my doctor about options, but i'm relieved that they're confident enough to deny treatment.
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Jun 03, 2009 4:37 AM GMT
The likelihood of your getting infected is next to nothing, but apparently not nothing.
I remember that in some early studies, about 10 percent of the participants claimed to have sero-converted because of oral sex. It was splashed all over the media. But in follow-up interviews, most of the 10 percent admitted they'd had unprotected anal sex, after all.
If you are worried that you might become infected from receptive oral sex, obviously you shouldn't have it because people are most contagious during the process of sero-conversion when they still test negative. I suspect the number of people who simply don't know they are poz is far larger than those who intentionally lie.
According to my partner, the HIV epidemiologist, there is no agreement about whether swallowing is more or less safe than not swallowing.
Anyway, the "safe rule" remains that you don't exchange bodily fluids.
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Jun 03, 2009 4:56 AM GMT
GuiltyGear said
EEEKKKK! Why aren't you people asking questions and getting to know people before you drink of the golden?
I don't understand! Now I'm freakin out for you, gonna go into my room and shut the door.
Exactly...i totally agree...u need to get tested, sex is sex, no matter which way u do it yo, u have just as much responsibility as he does  Were u freaking out, while u were givin him a BJ   |
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Jun 03, 2009 7:20 AM GMT
Withholding information of that magnitude is the same as lying and playing games. I would have beaten the guy to NEAR death. He wouldn't make that mistake again!  |
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Jun 03, 2009 7:22 PM GMT
MikemikeMike saidWithholding information of that magnitude is the same as lying and playing games. I would have beaten the guy to NEAR death. He wouldn't make that mistake again! ...after which you should beat yourself up just as much for not being responsible enough for asking him his status in the first place. It takes two (at the very least) to have sex, and everyone is responsible for their own sexual healthy. Just like there are some (presumed) HIV- guys who don't ask their partner their status because they assume they're ok (because they don't look/seem "sick"), there are many HIV+ guys who assume "Well he didn't ask me, so I guess he doesn't care if I am or not". This is 2009, and people KNOW how to protect themselves. Where is the accountability of the "victim" in this matter? Why aren't they using condoms? Why are they having unprotected sex with a virtual stranger? If you wouldn't trust someone enough to give them your ATM number, or keys to your home while you were away for a week, why would you trust them enough to ejaculate inside you????? |
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Jun 03, 2009 7:25 PM GMT
xanadude saidMikemikeMike saidWithholding information of that magnitude is the same as lying and playing games. I would have beaten the guy to NEAR death. He wouldn't make that mistake again!
...after which you should beat yourself up just as much for not being responsible enough for asking him his status in the first place. It takes two (at the very least) to have sex, and everyone is responsible for their own sexual healthy.
Just like there are some (presumed) HIV- guys who don't ask their partner their status because they assume they're ok (because they don't look/seem "sick"), there are many HIV+ guys who assume "Well he didn't ask me, so I guess he doesn't care if I am or not".
This is 2009, and people KNOW how to protect themselves. Where is the accountability of the "victim" in this matter? Why aren't they using condoms? Why are they having unprotected sex with a virtual stranger? If you wouldn't trust someone enough to give them your ATM number, or keys to your home while you were away for a week, why would you trust them enough to ejaculate inside you????? Your last sentence is a good quote - can I borrow it? |
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Jun 04, 2009 12:32 AM GMT
Blackguy4you saidxanadude saidMikemikeMike saidWithholding information of that magnitude is the same as lying and playing games. I would have beaten the guy to NEAR death. He wouldn't make that mistake again!
...after which you should beat yourself up just as much for not being responsible enough for asking him his status in the first place. It takes two (at the very least) to have sex, and everyone is responsible for their own sexual health.
Just like there are some (presumed) HIV- guys who don't ask their partner their status because they assume they're ok (because they don't look/seem "sick"), there are many HIV+ guys who assume "Well he didn't ask me, so I guess he doesn't care if I am or not".
This is 2009, and people KNOW how to protect themselves. Where is the accountability of the "victim" in this matter? Why aren't they using condoms? Why are they having unprotected sex with a virtual stranger? If you wouldn't trust someone enough to give them your ATM number, or keys to your home while you were away for a week, why would you trust them enough to ejaculate inside you?????
Your last sentence is a good quote - can I borrow it? Feel free big guy!  |
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Jun 04, 2009 7:19 PM GMT
getting it from oral is very very very very rare if ever happens. I have sucked off multiple guys who were poz and swallowed their loads for over 20 years and still NEG. So I dont think it is something to be worried about.
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Jun 04, 2009 7:28 PM GMT
Read what RedVespa has to say, and go visit the CDC site.
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Jun 04, 2009 7:38 PM GMT
sfinboston saidgetting it from oral is very very very very rare if ever happens. I have sucked off multiple guys who were poz and swallowed their loads for over 20 years and still NEG. So I dont think it is something to be worried about. Pinch me, I'm dreamin |
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Jun 04, 2009 7:44 PM GMT
MIGHT I PLEASE ECHO MUSCLELATIN. :::shakes head:::
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Jun 04, 2009 7:49 PM GMT
sfinboston saidgetting it from oral is very very very very rare if ever happens. I have sucked off multiple guys who were poz and swallowed their loads for over 20 years and still NEG. So I dont think it is something to be worried about. Uh, Toto, we're not in Kansas anymore! |
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Jun 04, 2009 7:57 PM GMT
coolarmydude saidThere are two things about this thread that amazes me:
1) How people give a rat's ass about HIV & AIDS before sex and feel the cold, icy grips of the Grim Reaper just because they found out about their hook-up's POZ status AFTER having sex.
2) How some POZ people wonder why on Earth are they still stigmatized after not being forthcoming before sex.
I realize that some POZ persons are upfront, but I'm beginning to see a correlation between the HIV neg guys who aren't honest with themselves about HIV/AIDS and the importance of personal responisbility that goes with it, later carry that same attitude of dishonesty when they become POZ and project that dishonesty by not being forthcoming with potential hook-ups. It's a web of deceipt, rooted in dishonesty and self-gratification, and not in HIV/AIDS status. I have two poz friends who could be described as avid manhunt.com patrons. One of them has it on display that he is positive. There's no shortage of guys who dont seem to care, or who are also poz who will have sex with him. The other one says that he is negative- but that he discloses before sex. I'm not sure if I believe him, especially with his warnings that "there are a ton of guys on manhunt who are positive who never tell you- even when you f*ck them" SO with that being said... I'm glad I'm not into manhunt or other similar websites... and I generally am a good boy and behave in such a way that my worry level is kept pretty low. Play safe guys... |
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Jun 04, 2009 7:58 PM GMT
sfinboston saidgetting it from oral is very very very very rare if ever happens. I have sucked off multiple guys who were poz and swallowed their loads for over 20 years and still NEG. So I dont think it is something to be worried about. Stupid people are stupid. My mom smoked for 30 years, quitting in 1982. Last Monday morning she died from COPD / emphysema, when her hemoglobin went to 40. Fortunately, she didn't die from cancer. Yep, never affected you, yet. You CAN get any number of infections from oral sex, including HIV. Incidence of HIV infections by oral sex is low, but, it happens. If you play with fire, or electricity, long enough, it may well get you. Stupid people are stupid. |
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Jun 04, 2009 8:01 PM GMT
chuckystud saidStupid people are stupid. |
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Jun 04, 2009 8:12 PM GMT
and some people are idiots, I tend to take a common sense approach. As I stated it is very rare to get HIV infection from oral. Get the stats and use common sense.
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Jun 07, 2009 9:56 AM GMT
I'm curious as to why most people think it's necessary to wait 6 months to get conclusive results? In other countries, the consensus is 3 months and in some, just 2 months.
Older HIV tests took 6 months, but the newer Elisa tests have become much more sensitive in recent years.
Also, in about 80% of cases, people tend to develop a high fever after initial infection. If you don't have flu-like symptoms that persist for over a week within 2 weeks of the problematic sex act, and have taken a 4th generation Elisa test at 2 months, the chances you contracted HIV should be exceptionally small.
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Jun 08, 2009 4:31 PM GMT
Pinny saidchuckystud saidStupid people are stupid. takes one to know....... |
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Jun 08, 2009 5:58 PM GMT
seabarak saidI'm curious as to why most people think it's necessary to wait 6 months to get conclusive results? In other countries, the consensus is 3 months and in some, just 2 months.
Isn't that pretty ambiguous in regard to something that should be known or not? |
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Jun 08, 2009 6:56 PM GMT
It is always interesting some guys freak out about giving a bj to someone w/ HIV, yet will bareback w/ a stranger and not know his status? I believe most guys who say they got HIV from bj actually were just barebacking. I base this on the stories I have heard from friends telling me how they met a guys and fucked raw...yet when the converted said they got it from bj.
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Jun 08, 2009 11:16 PM GMT
A substantial portion of people who self-report that they "dont know how they got it" or that their only risk factor was oral are too ashamed to admit that they also take it raw up the ass. I learned this from the person in my state who is responsible for tracking hiv cases. I was surprised that so many patients when asked again several years later change their story. The initial shock when someone is newly diagnosed can be overwhelming enough without telling the sordid detail of your sexual history to a complete stranger
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Jun 08, 2009 11:34 PM GMT
Anto, the reason for the supposed discrepancy is that some places use older generation tests. 6 months is only for very rare cases. Most people would have symptoms or detectable antibodies within a much shorter amount of time.
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Jun 09, 2009 12:22 AM GMT
HndsmKansan saidI would think if you were about to swallow and having intense oral sex,
he should have said something... anytime you are put in any sort of increased risk, a responsible guy should say something. I agree, not telling him is the same as lying to him, which is illegal. |
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Jun 09, 2009 12:23 AM GMT
Given that you're freaking out I think it better people don't go into an ethical debate right now.
You should be fine unless you had any cuts or ways for his semen to get into your blood through your gums (gum issues, sores, etc.)
Stomach acid kills the shit out of HIV so don't worry that you swallowed it. The risk is under 1%. I'd simply wait a while and get tested and see what's up.
Nows not the time to be pissed at him or anything, your main concern should be your health, but unless you have any of the above-mentioned issues, your risk is extremely low. People have been in relationships for decades with positive individuals and remained negative, and I'm sure somewhere along the line someone swallowed a load or two.
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Jun 09, 2009 12:41 AM GMT
I guess I'm alone in feeling this, but I don't think it's his responsibility to tell you unless you explicitly ask. Caveat Emptor. Maintaining your health is your responsibility. If it's very important to you to stay HIV negative, you will work to keep yourself safe. I'm not saying that's easy. Even the most careful people slip up occasionally; we're only human, and it's not easy to think clearly when you're turned on. But finally it's your health, no one else's, and if you get HIV from consentual sex, the responsibility for it is yours.
By the way, I am HIV negative. I only mention that because it might be relevant to how people react to my post.
As others have said, you're 99.44% (like the soap) likely to be safe. I'm sorry about your stressful situation. I've been there and it sucks.
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Jun 09, 2009 12:41 AM GMT
Robadob, if you're very concerned, you can have a PCR test done in one week's time. PCR tests check for the presence of the virus itself, instead of antibodies, so they can detect or rule out infection much sooner. The main reason they're not done routinely is cause they're more expensive.
The post-exposure anxiety is probably the worst aspect of this whole incident and I'd suggest doing whatever it takes to get that under control.
Many people go through these kind of things and seeing a psychologist, taking anti-anxiety meds and talking with friends really helps. Also, it's best to avoid HIV-related sites during the waiting period as they usually just freak people out.
Hope you feel better soon!
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Jun 09, 2009 3:33 AM GMT
sfinboston saidgetting it from oral is very very very very rare if ever happens. I have sucked off multiple guys who were poz and swallowed their loads for over 20 years and still NEG. So I dont think it is something to be worried about. sfinboston....interesting that in your profile you state the you always play safe ....so sucking off and swallowing the loads of dozens of men who were pos for 20+ years is considered safe? |
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Jun 09, 2009 4:14 AM GMT
....safety in numbers, LOL....I know, not that funny, but kinda funny.
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Jun 09, 2009 10:36 AM GMT
wootwoot said
Stomach acid kills the shit out of HIV so don't worry that you swallowed it. The risk is under 1%. I'd simply wait a while and get tested and see what's up.
Stomach acid will kill the HIV virus. The biggest protection however comes from saliva which contains enzymes that neutralize the virus. If there is an open area in the oral cavity the virus can enter the blood stream before being neutralized..This happening is very rare. The cells lining the oral cavity are sturdier than the cells lining of the rectum or vagina. This sturdiness also impedes the virus from entering into the blood stream. |
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Jun 09, 2009 10:45 AM GMT
chuckystud saidsfinboston saidgetting it from oral is very very very very rare if ever happens. I have sucked off multiple guys who were poz and swallowed their loads for over 20 years and still NEG. So I dont think it is something to be worried about.
Stupid people are stupid.
My mom smoked for 30 years, quitting in 1982. Last Monday morning she died from COPD / emphysema, when her hemoglobin went to 40. Fortunately, she didn't die from cancer.
Yep, never affected you, yet.
You CAN get any number of infections from oral sex, including HIV. Incidence of HIV infections by oral sex is low, but, it happens.
If you play with fire, or electricity, long enough, it may well get you.
Stupid people are stupid. Agreed. Btw, sorry about your mom. |
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Jun 09, 2009 10:50 AM GMT
kneedraggen saidwootwoot said
Stomach acid kills the shit out of HIV so don't worry that you swallowed it. The risk is under 1%. I'd simply wait a while and get tested and see what's up.
Stomach acid will kill the HIV virus. The biggest protection however comes from saliva which contains enzymes that neutralize the virus. If there is an open area in the oral cavity the virus can enter the blood stream before being neutralized..This happening is very rare. The cells lining the oral cavity are sturdier than the cells lining of the rectum or vagina. This sturdiness also impedes the virus from entering into the blood stream.
Are you sure salivary amylase breaks the HIV virus down? |
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Jun 09, 2009 11:00 AM GMT
Fable said
Are you sure salivary amylase breaks the HIV virus down?
I don't know if Amylase is the enzyme the authors are speaking of. Here is one article that mentions saliva and HIV
http://www.sfaf.org/aids101/transmission.html
HIV is not transmitted by saliva. There is a great deal of evidence to support this fact. In a study of 79 men with AIDS, the virus could be found in the saliva of only one. This man had PCP, thrush, and other mouth and throat lesions. Even in this man, the level of virus found in his saliva was 10,000 times less than the level in his blood. To this study we can add the evidence of the countless numbers of people who have had saliva contact with people with AIDS or others who have been infected with HIV. This contact has occurred through kissing, sharing food, and many other means. They can find no evidence that these activities have transmitted the virus even a single time. Recent findings suggest that saliva contains an enzyme which kills HIV. Certainly there is a lot at work in the mouth combining to make it an inhospitable site for the virus: acids, enzymes, friction, dilution, air, and more. |
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Jun 09, 2009 12:46 PM GMT
RunnerBen saidI guess I'm alone in feeling this, but I don't think it's his responsibility to tell you unless you explicitly ask. Caveat Emptor. Maintaining your health is your responsibility. If it's very important to you to stay HIV negative, you will work to keep yourself safe. I'm not saying that's easy. Even the most careful people slip up occasionally; we're only human, and it's not easy to think clearly when you're turned on. But finally it's your health, no one else's, and if you get HIV from consentual sex, the responsibility for it is yours.
By the way, I am HIV negative. I only mention that because it might be relevant to how people react to my post.
As others have said, you're 99.44% (like the soap) likely to be safe. I'm sorry about your stressful situation. I've been there and it sucks.
As another neg guy, I fully agree w/ what you said. |
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Jun 09, 2009 12:48 PM GMT
sixxfive saidsfinboston saidgetting it from oral is very very very very rare if ever happens. I have sucked off multiple guys who were poz and swallowed their loads for over 20 years and still NEG. So I dont think it is something to be worried about.
sfinboston....interesting that in your profile you state the you always play safe ....so sucking off and swallowing the loads of dozens of men who were pos for 20+ years is considered safe? I didnt say dozen, I said multiple which means more than one. Did you have a point or were you just being your normal A-hole self? |
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Jun 09, 2009 9:56 PM GMT
sfinboston saidsixxfive saidsfinboston saidgetting it from oral is very very very very rare if ever happens. I have sucked off multiple guys who were poz and swallowed their loads for over 20 years and still NEG. So I dont think it is something to be worried about.
sfinboston....interesting that in your profile you state the you always play safe ....so sucking off and swallowing the loads of dozens of men who were pos for 20+ years is considered safe?
I didnt say dozen, I said multiple which means more than one. Did you have a point or were you just being your normal A-hole self? Looks like I hit a nerve.... |
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Jun 10, 2009 1:08 AM GMT
wow, because I am honest and say what I do, sucking cock and swallowing...I get attacked.
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Jun 10, 2009 1:27 AM GMT
I have a friend who seroconverted from 'only' giving blowjobs, so a resounding yes to potential for exposure.
And as for disclosure, he could have said something, but you should definitely have asked before swallowing someone's load. Come on man, it's 2009 and there are many other std's out there besides HIV. Swallowing a load can get you a lot more than HIV. So that one is mostly on you.
And maybe you are kinda pissed because you know that...
Either way I hope all is okay and your tests show up clean when you go.
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Jun 15, 2009 3:17 AM GMT
[quote][cite]RunnerBen said[/cite]I guess I'm alone in feeling this, but I don't think it's his responsibility to tell you unless you explicitly ask. Caveat Emptor. Maintaining your health is your responsibility. If it's very important to you to stay HIV negative, you will work to keep yourself safe. I'm not saying that's easy. Even the most careful people slip up occasionally; we're only human, and it's not easy to think clearly when you're turned on. But finally it's your health, no one else's, and if you get HIV from consentual sex, the responsibility for it is yours.
By the way, I am HIV negative. I only mention that because it might be relevant to how people react to my post.
As others have said, you're 99.44% (like the soap) likely to be safe. I'm sorry about your stressful situation. I've been there and it sucks.
Hold the fuck back dude. what do you mean it's not his responsibility to tell him he's infected? He can literally kill this guy. robadob hopefully has learned his lesson but had a moment of unclairty! He believed in the goodness that was within himself as he would have disclosed such info. How dare you suggest that your not obligated to save someones life and be the one to deliver a death sentence for a moment of selfishness....Ugghhhhh
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Jun 15, 2009 5:17 AM GMT
xanadude saidMikemikeMike saidWithholding information of that magnitude is the same as lying and playing games. I would have beaten the guy to NEAR death. He wouldn't make that mistake again!
...after which you should beat yourself up just as much for not being responsible enough for asking him his status in the first place. It takes two (at the very least) to have sex, and everyone is responsible for their own sexual healthy.
Just like there are some (presumed) HIV- guys who don't ask their partner their status because they assume they're ok (because they don't look/seem "sick"), there are many HIV+ guys who assume "Well he didn't ask me, so I guess he doesn't care if I am or not".
This is 2009, and people KNOW how to protect themselves. Where is the accountability of the "victim" in this matter? Why aren't they using condoms? Why are they having unprotected sex with a virtual stranger? If you wouldn't trust someone enough to give them your ATM number, or keys to your home while you were away for a week, why would you trust them enough to ejaculate inside you????? I wouldn't be so dumb- but people lie.  Glad I'm not single 5.5 yrs!! I always wear a condom!! |
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Jun 15, 2009 6:19 AM GMT
If it's stupid not to ask and assume that someone is negative, how is it any smarter to ask and assume someone is telling the truth? We're talking about horny men who want sex. Sure some may tell the truth, but how are you going to know does and who doesn't?
And if you seroconvert, will it be any comfort that you can sue because he lied?
I don't bother to ask. I assume they're all positive.
And speaking of assumptions, I've heard poz guys say they assumed if the other guy was okay with unsafe if he doesn't ask or pull out a condom himself, precisely because it doesn't make any sense to assume someone is either negative or telling the truth. Makes as much sense as any other assumption, if not more.
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Jun 15, 2009 7:17 AM GMT
Yes you should be pissed. I think that that is a total disrespect. he didnt give you the opportunity to say no. it was very selfish actually. if you were to become infected what would he say? Sorry? but ont the other hand why would you swallow without sitting and talking about things like that? when i had dates (i never swallowed) i would always ask about they HIV status and their std status. Some freaked out that i would ask and some walked away. Very few applauded me for asking. You have to always remember that its your body and your responsibility... if something was to happen and you could have prevented it you would really hate yourself for it.
According to my readings, the risk is very low for contracting HIV through oral sex. You would have to have open sores or cuts in your mouth to catch something. In fact, i read a few articles online that suggest if you are going to swallow that you should do it immediatley when the cum in your mouth. nothing really survives stomach acids. Now i said nothing really, there are a view things that do, but i think the article said that the HIV virus wouldnt. Dont quote me though, you might want to look it up.
Good luck and be a littl emore responsible next time buddy. Im sure you will be alright though.
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Jul 13, 2009 4:08 AM GMT
According to most HIV counselors, physcians, and major HIV organizations (outside of the CDC) HIV through receptive fellatio seem very very rare, and it is not seen as an effective route of transmission. That doesn't mean it's safe to go sucking off Tom, Dick, and Harry though. Plus you still must worry about other STD's.
Think with the head on top of your shoulders, not the one between your legs.
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Jul 13, 2009 3:58 PM GMT
So.......the only defense against STD's and HIV is abstinence. You can even catch something from kissing, theoretically speaking.
Condoms can break.
Can someone who wants to be 100% safe live with no sex?
If the answer is no, then you gotta live with the SOME risk if you do any kind of sex.
Even if you ask about his history, you still don't know. And even if you are in a LTR , you STILL don't know for sure...........
But there are guys in monogamous trusting relationships who practice "unsafe" sex between themselves. It must take an incredible amount of trust and love to feel comfortable trusting each others safety to each other.
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Jul 14, 2009 12:54 AM GMT
I think he should've told you but you definitely should've asked too I suppose. I hope you're not HIV +, you'll have to tell us what happens.
If nothing else learn from this experience and encourage others to be safe too.
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Jul 14, 2009 1:07 AM GMT
The first guy I ever slept with (back, way back in 1989) was positive and didn't tell me, even though I did ask before we had sex. I found out from a friend. Scared me silly, especially since so little was known about HIV at the time.
I asked him later why he didn't tell me. He said he thought it might scare me (which is true) and that I wouldn't be able to handle it (which I had to do anyway).
I don't envy guys who are positive and looking for the right time to bring it up, but that time has to come before sex. Waiting until after isn't fair to the other person. Your guy waited too long.
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Jul 14, 2009 1:10 AM GMT
you know you can have him arrested right? Infact this individual could be charged with reckless endangerment. I hate guys that hide their status and then take it upon themselves to try an infect men that they are dating.
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Jul 14, 2009 1:37 AM GMT
tereseus1 saidyou know you can have him arrested right? Infact this individual could be charged with reckless endangerment. I hate guys that hide their status and then take it upon themselves to try an infect men that they are dating. Not really. Take a look at this brief article on the law concerning disclosure |
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Jul 14, 2009 1:55 AM GMT
MunchingZombie saidtereseus1 saidyou know you can have him arrested right? Infact this individual could be charged with reckless endangerment. I hate guys that hide their status and then take it upon themselves to try an infect men that they are dating.
Not really. Take a look at this brief article on the law concerning disclosure i see what you meant but i just see it as if you dont tell the person before any form of sex and still continue to take part in the act is still willfully hiding your status hence taking a risk with your sexual partners health. ... Once the issue of sex is mentioned or you see it is going to take place.....the right thing to do is disclose your status....other wise your actions falls under the title of "Criminal /Potential Transmission of HIV" --In many countries, the intentional or reckless infection of a person with the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) is considered to be illegal. People who do so can be charged with criminal transmission of HIV, murder, manslaughter, attempted murder, or assault. Some states have enacted laws expressly to criminalize HIV transmission, as in the United States, while others charge under the existing laws, as in the United Kingdom. its one thing to not know of your status before sex..but to know and willfully have sex without disclosing should be considered a crime. God i cant wait to intern at the D.A office as they have a case like this right now. |
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Jul 14, 2009 2:52 AM GMT
tereseus1 saidits one thing to not know of your status before sex..but to know and willfully have sex without disclosing should be considered a crime. God i cant wait to intern at the D.A office as they have a case like this right now. Meh, I am not so hot on criminalizing that. It gives people a false sense of security. Why are people not asking about status, using protection, or reducing risky behaviors? It isn't because the law wont back them up. People should take. It isn't criminal to give people cancer through second hand smoke. It isn't criminal to give people any number of STIs. Might you be able to make a case in civil court? Sure. But criminal? Perhaps an additional punishment should be added on to rape charges, but just because one person gets fucked when two people act stupid doesn't mean the other is any more of a dolt, in my humble opinion. |
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Jul 16, 2009 12:19 PM GMT
It's reassuring to read the responses here. Shows that there are men out there who are self-aware and have a good head on their shoulders. I can empathise with the poster. It's not worth taking risks - why spend months of your life worrying (perhaps for no good cause)?
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Jul 26, 2009 8:58 PM GMT
You should read what the CDC says about HIV and oral sex before saying what you said.
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Jul 26, 2009 9:29 PM GMT
SWL2 said Don't stress over a mouth full as they have said the enzymes in saliva kill the virus. So much crap goes back and forth about this thing I wonder sometimes myself if the damn thing exists Just wanted to post before everyone else does eating you alive for posting stupid info like this. edit: Because Chucky was nice enough I will go with the flow: http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/factsheets/oralsex.htm |
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Jul 26, 2009 10:34 PM GMT
Pinny saidSWL2 said Don't stress over a mouth full as they have said the enzymes in saliva kill the virus. So much crap goes back and forth about this thing I wonder sometimes myself if the damn thing exists
Just wanted to post before everyone else does eating you alive for posting stupid info like this.
edit: Because Chucky was nice enough I will go with the flow: http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/factsheets/oralsex.htm Hmm, it's pretty valid info except for this: Oral sex involves giving or receiving oral stimulation to the penis, the vagina, and/or the anus.The website combines the risks of infection for three different types of oral contact even though each type of contact carries a different risk. The figure for HIV infection rate of fellatio alone should be significantly lower than either rimming or cunnilingus. It's not a placebo affect that is causing the death of thousands a people a day due to HIV/AIDS. And that figure isn't an exaggeration either, check it: http://www.poodwaddle.com/clocks2.htm |
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Jul 26, 2009 10:38 PM GMT
SWL2 saidShow Scientific proof otherwise and then will believe it was stupid info! The enzymes in saliva have been known to fight HIV for over a decade now. Do you even have the disease enough to know something about it up close? If not, perhaps you should not jump to conclusions. Did you read the link? It is in big bold font. I tend to believe the CDC over your anecdotal statements and logic that because I am not poz I cannot comment on the subject. |
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Jul 27, 2009 12:07 AM GMT
SWL2 said The only risks were in having an open sore in the mouth and that has been the facts since the beginning... PERIOD! http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/qa/qa19.htmOpen sores, while increasing transmission rate from seminal fluid to a neg person, are not a prerequisite for transmission. I am overwhelmed by the fact that after 90 some posts of RJ'rs stating that the OP needs to be careful and even use protection during oral sex when the partner is unknown or known to be poz you are advocating to throw caution at the side in lieu of having a "fantastic" bj. |
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Jul 27, 2009 12:21 AM GMT
Plainly put:
* He should have disclosed his status BEFORE sexual contact
* You should have disclosed your status and ASKED him about his BEFORE sexual contat
* No sex is safe, but unprotected oral sex isn't as risky as unprotected anal sex
* DO NOT swallow any load unless you are certain your partner is negative. The virus loves thin mucus membrane, i.e. your the back of your mouth and throat.
* The fact that he hasn't started his cocktail is no reassurance of your safety
* Contact your doctor immediately (since this string dates back to July 2nd, perhaps you've been tested since?)
* If you are negative, lesson learned. It's a close call and MANY of us have had them.
* If you are positive, surround yourself with friends, seek out information from trustworthy sources and remember, life IS NOT over.
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Jul 27, 2009 8:53 AM GMT
There is inherent risk to any activity. You accept it, or not. You are responsible to yourself and society, or not.
However, most folks would likely want what's called informed consent.
I think most folks object to the HIV+ guy dismissing the risk of oral sex completely, which is pretty much what you did. That's wrong. It's irresponsible and misleading, and very poor leadership. If you want to talk about your HIV you need to have some basis in fact. Had you said, "There is a much smaller risk with oral sex, but, you should get yourself checked for the next 6 months (I know some tests are faster), and see what's up." I don't think folks would have objected. You come across as careless, self-centered, and dismissive of risk. I.e. irresponsible. You should re-think your position to one of leadership. Speak the truth, and the rest will follow.
The risk of transmission is not as high in oral sex, but, it's still present. To deny any risk at all is gross misinformation.
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Jul 27, 2009 9:52 PM GMT
It sounds like you're carrying around a lot of anger / denial / lack of culpability.
Normally I don't do this, but, in this situation, I think it's fitting.
Here's an email from redbull / Brian, original poster on this topic, that I received early this morning.
"thanks for your encouragement and words of advice on my "I am positive" post. I am planning on doing something good out of all of this once I get my #'s up and stuff. Your response was my feelings exactly. I can lay around and feel sorry for myself and bla bla bla or I can use this to inform and help others.
Its amazing to me how in this day and time some people are still so ignorant and uninformed about this disease.
Thanks again Chucky,
Brian"
I think that says enough.
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