Does Obama want Netanyahu out?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 02, 2009 5:19 PM GMT
    Story Highlights

    Aaron David Miller: U.S. has shied away from confronting Israeli prime ministers
    He says Barack Obama has shown signs of confronting Netanyahu
    Miller: The tough stance on settlements is a risky move
    He says U.S. may have decided there's no chance of peace with Netanyahu in office

    "Unlike his two immediate predecessors (Bill Clinton and George W. Bush), the president has decided to draw the line with Israel and push for a comprehensive freeze on settlements on the West Bank. The president seems unwilling to yield ground and to allow the Israelis any of the traditional loopholes that would have permitted some settlement construction. If the U.S.-Israeli brouhaha leads to a real confrontation, even the fall of the Netanyahu government, President Obama may not feel too bad about it."

    http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/06/02/miller.obama.netanyahu/index.html

    Oh this is gonna be good to watch. Pass the popcorn.



  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Jun 02, 2009 7:52 PM GMT
    Netanyahu is a rightwing hawk and does not want peace with the palestiniani people
    He'll play lip service .... and say the things that he thinks Obama will want to hear but as far as doing anything like freezing or dismantling settlements in the westbank I wouldn't hold my breath
  • dglater

    Posts: 255

    Jun 02, 2009 7:58 PM GMT
    lol everyone wants peace my friend its just that they all see "peace" in a different way.

    i am sure obama would prefer to have a left winger, but netanyuhu can bring peace, i am sad that he won the election however.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 02, 2009 8:04 PM GMT
    Caslon11000 saidOh this is gonna be good to watch. Pass the popcorn.

    It would certainly be refreshing if the US stood up to Israel for once, and not merely be an enabler, but I doubt it will happen. Congress won't allow it. There are wrongs on both sides, but the US must always side with Israel, no matter what. That's unlikely to change.

    CateatingPopcorn.gif
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14372

    Jun 02, 2009 8:04 PM GMT
    Netanyahu is an extreme right wing hardliner who flatly refuses to work with the Palestinian people in search of a peaceful solution that would be beneficial to both Israelis and Palestinians. He just demands total Israeli domination and annexation of the entire West Bank and the Gaza Strip. i blame the people of Israel for continuously re-electing hard liners like this vindictive asshole back into power. No wonder there will never be peace in this troubled region.
  • dglater

    Posts: 255

    Jun 03, 2009 12:14 AM GMT
    see this is the situation i find my self in which i hate... i don't like netanyahu at all and i disagree with him, but when i see morons like roadbikerob posting total bullshit i just cant help but find my self defending him.

    roadbikerob first of all bibi is a right winger, not an extreme right winger, he does believe in a 2 state solution but he disagrees on where to draw the final border. He does not want to anex the west bank or gaza... why would you so such a stupid thing?

    also your short thinking process is amazing as well, to make a statement like "i blame the people of Israel for continuously re-electing hard liners"

    you dumb ass majority of Israelis voted for Tizipi Livni, and the once that voted for Lieberman were majority Russian immigrants who he appealed to the most, as he promised to reform the current law to suit them better.
    Also Olmart was not a hardliner, also since the 70's when PLO was established to represent the Palestinians they had 1 leader! Yassir Arafat, and israel had over 10 leaders at least, from liberal to conservative, so don't give me that bullshit "i blame people of Israel"

    do you blame the people of Gaza for electing Hamas? or do you understand why hamas as a religious and social movement (in gaza) has provided more help to the Palestinians then the PLO,

    Really once you sit down and think from both sides you'll see why people act like this. Also, READ!!! please READ books about this, read books from both sides to understand why people act the way they do, The basic human element still apply for both sides, Labeling one side "Zionist" or the other "terrorist" is the dumbest shit anyone can do.

    Again back to the topic i think USA should pressure Bibi and the Israeli government more its important for US to play an important role as it is the only country that can help achieve peace.
  • DCEric

    Posts: 3713

    Jun 03, 2009 12:22 AM GMT
    flamewar.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 03, 2009 2:34 AM GMT
    No he does not. This is just part of a game (policy), don't fall for it. America and Israel will always be staunch allies. This is just a strategy that will send a new and fresh message to the arab world about the so-called "changed" America. We're simply sick and tired of wars, and so is the rest of the world. In fact, we're not just sick and tired of wars, I don't believe we can fight another war in that region, or at least not during this fragile economic climate. That's why Obama was groomed and "brought" into office. Although I'm not sure many intelligent people in that continent will fall for it either, so get ready for even tougher love towards israel.

    Eventually, they'll come to a compromise on settlements, and this peace process will move forward, and I actually believe that Natanyahu will, down the line, come to compromise with the palestinians on some sovereignty.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14372

    Jun 03, 2009 8:39 PM GMT
    I find it next to impossible for a hard liner like Natanyahu to come to terms for a peaceful solution with the Palestinian people when all he wanted to do in the past is reject any of the Palestinians demands. This man is impossible to work with and just wants everything his way. This is no bullshit, only the truth. Yes he disagrees on a new boundary for Israel because he wants as much of that land as possible under Israeli control.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14372

    Jun 03, 2009 8:42 PM GMT
    The two separate state solution is a disastrous failure. The only peaceful possibility is the creation of a proposed Israeli-Palestinian nation where both Israelis and Palestinians are citizens and have equal rights.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 03, 2009 11:22 PM GMT
    Let's see if Obama mentions settlements in his speech in Cairo tomorrow. Sec. Clinton has rejected the settlements, using the "we" word. If Obama rejects them tomorrow then we will know who the "we" are and that Isreal has been put on notice. Clinton has also supported the two-state solution and emphasized that that means there has to be firm borders.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 03, 2009 11:37 PM GMT
    roadbikeRob saidThe two separate state solution is a disastrous failure. The only peaceful possibility is the creation of a proposed Israeli-Palestinian nation where both Israelis and Palestinians are citizens and have equal rights.


    Sounds like Ahmadinejad's proposal, which is recipe for Israel's destruction.

    That would bring civil war immediately. Jews would be outnumbered, therefore the government structure would change, and a Hamas-like government would EVENTUALLY come to power. The only solution is two states, with settlement growth halted, and Jerusalem divided. I'm not pro-Israel in anyway, but just being realistic.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 03, 2009 11:58 PM GMT
    Well, considering our whole entire government is influenced and practically ran by AIPAC I doubt it. And since we haven't cut the $$$$ millions we send Israel in "aid" each year, I doubly doubt it.
  • dglater

    Posts: 255

    Jun 04, 2009 5:05 AM GMT
    "I don't think there will be a civil war if they all agree to have one state solution or two state solution equal right on both sides. If it is two state solution, i am sure Hamas won't be in power, because they are small religious group."

    hahahha good one small religious group. That would probably win election in the west bank too now.

  • dglater

    Posts: 255

    Jun 04, 2009 5:10 AM GMT
    i hate insulting people..... but when people say one state solution is a "serious" option. i really question their ability to understand the middle east from a fair prospective.

    its just such a idiotic idea and proposal i just don't have enough words to describe it, i have laid out major explanation in previous threads why it WONT work.

    can someone make a VERY strong argument why one state will work?
    and try to cover as many points of view as possible.

    majority of Israelis and Palestinians DO NOT want a one state solution.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 05, 2009 12:35 AM GMT
    I'm sorry, you're idea sounds great man, but I don't think it would work. We would witness a second holocaust. If Europe was infiltrated with the most anti-semitism than anywhere else in the world, I can't imagine anything better with the people of the middle east. Hate to tell you, but Obama isn't going to change their attitudes towards Jews. Civilizations are just meant to clash.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 05, 2009 12:43 AM GMT
    It gets more interesting as each day passes. Personally, I think the playing field needs to be leveled. The U.S. has been sucking Israeli cock for far too long. It's time for us to start giving the Palestinians an equal amount of attention.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 05, 2009 12:47 AM GMT
    He may indeed be trying to bring an early end to the Israeli government. As long as things are as divided as they are, I don't see a government coming to power more likely to make the concessions necessary. Though, honestly, I don't think Netanyahu has enough support to survive if he tried to do it.

    One thing to remember, however, only Nixon could go to China.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 05, 2009 12:57 AM GMT
    samiphx saidI know some Palestinians today want one-state solution as long they are treated equal with Israeli citizens. There are some books and articles written by Palestinians that want one-state solution. Arafat said, “a single, secular, democratic state in Palestine, in which all faiths would be equal.” Israel refused it.

    I suggest that you take a separate Palestinian state and make that work first. Later, if the state of Palestine and the state of Israel want to merge, great.

    Do you know this about American history? America had to make a very serious decision when initially forming our union. There were those who wanted prohibition of slavery in the Constitution. This, of course, was a deal breaker for the southern colonies. They would not join. So the American founding fathers decided to take an imperfect country...but a country....first, and let the future deal with slavery. Slavery remained and the country was formed. After the country had matured and was stronger, then slavery was stamped out.

    The moral to this story is that sometimes you have to accept very serious compromises to get something, rather than holding out for everything and getting nothing.
  • dglater

    Posts: 255

    Jun 05, 2009 2:54 AM GMT
    samiphx saidI don't see why not? It will work if everybody agree with one state solution. Nothing wrong with one-state solution where Palestinian and Israeli live together. We have some Palestinians living in Israel and we have some Israelis living in Palestinian lands. Uri Davis is a good example. Uri is an Israeli citizen and a member in the Palestine National Council living in the Palestinian (Israeli Arab) town of Sakhnin in Israel. He consider himself a Palestinian Jewish. Many Israelis in Palestinian land don't want to consider themselves Palestinians, but I am sure the Palestinian refugees that want to return their home in Israel won't mind consider themselves Israeli citizens. Israeli government won't let them, because the Palestinian refugees have to be "Jews." I honestly think that is racist. In the West Bank and Gaza, they have Israeli money, Israeli stamps, Israeli foods products. You don't see Palestinians complaining like the Israeli settlers do all the time. Israelis settlers always complaining or winning something that doesn't belong to them.

    I know some Palestinians today want one-state solution as long they are treated equal with Israeli citizens. There are some books and articles written by Palestinians that want one-state solution. Arafat said, “a single, secular, democratic state in Palestine, in which all faiths would be equal.” Israel refused it.


    no you are wrong MOST Palestinians refuse one state solution as well, you are very naive for believing that.

    we are completely different people, different color/religion/culture/norms name anything else?
  • kaccioto

    Posts: 284

    Jun 05, 2009 3:29 AM GMT
    SouthParkSD saidWell, considering our whole entire government is influenced and practically ran by AIPAC I doubt it. And since we haven't cut the $$$$ millions we send Israel in "aid" each year, I doubly doubt it.


    ding!

    israel_lobby_home_book.jpg

    let me guess, objective data with open discussion is now also anti-semetic..surprise
  • kaccioto

    Posts: 284

    Jun 05, 2009 3:35 AM GMT
    jprichva said
    Why are national aspirations applauded everywhere else, but for Jews it's racism?


    oh hai jp, i know you're smarter than that, but for brevity and bedtime it's sorta like this:

    Who-belongs-here.jpg
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 05, 2009 4:19 AM GMT
    cruelsummer saidNo he does not. This is just part of a game (policy), don't fall for it. America and Israel will always be staunch allies. This is just a strategy that will send a new and fresh message to the arab world about the so-called "changed" America. We're simply sick and tired of wars, and so is the rest of the world. In fact, we're not just sick and tired of wars, I don't believe we can fight another war in that region, or at least not during this fragile economic climate. That's why Obama was groomed and "brought" into office. Although I'm not sure many intelligent people in that continent will fall for it either, so get ready for even tougher love towards israel.

    Eventually, they'll come to a compromise on settlements, and this peace process will move forward, and I actually believe that Natanyahu will, down the line, come to compromise with the palestinians on some sovereignty.


    Nobody wants to see another war, unfortunately its gonna happen, and if you think what's going on now is bad, you aint seen nothing yet. Right now things are being built up for the big one, and its gonna be real nasty.

    All the peace talks are nice, and in a perfect world they'd work, but we're not dealing with civilized reasonable people, we're dealing with religious fanatics, and if you do some research on what they really believe and what they want, not to mention the history and culture of that region. They (the fanatics) believe the return of their messiah is on the way, and to bring him into the world they must cause X amount of violence to bring in their apocalypse, so their messiah can return, and do his thing to all infidels, and bring about the new world. None of this has anything to do with politics coming from their side, its a religious thing for them.

    Same kind of twisted evil thinking of certain people in another time in world history. So the talks are nice, but they will do nothing. As long as people in that region hold on to fanatical beliefs (and obviously not all muslims do, but the good ones live in fear themselves), hold on to the hate, worship a culture of death, and keep letting men with these ideologies attain and hold power, you're not gonna see peace over there in this life time.

    I remember back in 96 when I was in the 10th grade. My history teach kinda old, real wise awesome guy. He said by the time we were in our 20's that region of the world is going to be a major major problem. His words are part of why I got so obsessed with studying about that region, and part of why I joined the Marines, wanted to see things for myself. I'm like 27 now, and things are only looking to blow up big time over there soon, all because fanatical religious beliefs.
  • dglater

    Posts: 255

    Jun 05, 2009 4:27 AM GMT
    1. Zionism is the believe for the Jewish homeland which is a common belief among Jews.
    2. Jews who support Zionism have done bad stuff, but Majority of Jews want peace.
    3. Majority of Jews are Zionists.

    this is why i believe anti Zionist is anti Semitic.

    being anti Israeli government is not Anti Semitic, but labeling people bad and using the word Zionist is Racist and Anti Semitic.


    and samiphx guess your wrong again, (this happens often)

    When asked by its self Palestinians would rather have one state then nothing.
    http://www.neareastconsulting.com/surveys/ppp/p22/out_freq_q27.php/

    However when giving other options, one state is the least popular idea among the Palestinians.

    They rather have a two state solution, thats the most popular idea, Second they rather have historic Palestine restored. and JUST THIRD they support bi national one state (LEAST FAVORITE IDEA)
    http://www.neareastconsulting.com/surveys/all/p211/out_freq_q21.php

    so in essence you are wrong, and you are among the minority of the Palestinian people and their opinions, please next time you speak about one state solution let it be known that MOST Palestinians when given a 2nd or 3rd option would chose them over a "A one bi-national state in historic Palestine"
    oh and this essentially puts my opinion on peace with the majority of Palestinians and yours.... with the minority.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 05, 2009 4:31 AM GMT
    Well, it took a couple of days to really get something going here...but it worked.


    You guys are so easy. ... icon_rolleyes.gif