What are your dreams for the LGBT community?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 02, 2009 11:40 PM GMT
    Hey Guys:

    The organization I work for, In The Life Media, has an exciting summer-long campaign celebrating the 40th anniversary of Stonewall. You can check out the Summer of Stonewall home page here;

    www.inthelifetv.org/stonewall40

    As part of it, we're asking for community members (and real jocks!) to share their vision for our movement over the next forty years. Will we be able to marry? Will there still be hate crimes? Will our families of origin accept us completely?

    Here's a link to our YouTube pitch. You can post your video as a response to this one and possible end up on the October episode of IN THE LIFE.



    The growth of the internet has allowed our movement to connect and organize in ways that could only be dreamed of forty years ago. Imagine what we can achieve in the next 40 years! In "Dreams for the Movement", we're asking you to share your vision with us. What are your dreams for the next forty years of the LGBT movement?

    Submit a 60 second video response to our video entitled "Dreams for the Movement", and your most inspiring dreams could be featured on TV in our October Season Premiere episode!
  • Delivis

    Posts: 2332

    Jun 02, 2009 11:58 PM GMT
    My dream is that eventually there will be no such thing as the LGBT "community".
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    Jun 03, 2009 1:03 AM GMT
    Delivis saidMy dream is that eventually there will be no such thing as the LGBT "community".



    i can read that at least two ways, one of which is dreadful (the other of which isn't so bad, but still not really all that great).

    my dream for the LGBT community is for us to be as inclusive and tolerant in life as we pretend to be in our ideals. i think that's why delivis used aggressive quote marks... we don't have a community. we have alot of people of different backgrounds and interests mushed together because heterosexuals think we're all queers. i think if we were as much a unified rainbow as our flag tries to imply we'd be unstoppable.
  • DCEric

    Posts: 3713

    Jun 03, 2009 1:14 AM GMT
    Not LGBT specific: That people finally understand that no one is mainstream and that each person has unique traits, some of which are visual and some of which are not. Furthermore that these traits are of concern to that individual and that no one has the authority to make that person any less than any other.
  • styrgan

    Posts: 2017

    Jun 03, 2009 1:27 AM GMT
    dancerjack said
    Delivis saidMy dream is that eventually there will be no such thing as the LGBT "community".



    i can read that at least two ways, one of which is dreadful (the other of which isn't so bad, but still not really all that great).

    my dream for the LGBT community is for us to be as inclusive and tolerant in life as we pretend to be in our ideals. i think that's why delivis used aggressive quote marks... we don't have a community. we have alot of people of different backgrounds and interests mushed together because heterosexuals think we're all queers. i think if we were as much a unified rainbow as our flag tries to imply we'd be unstoppable.


    ::swoons::
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    Jun 03, 2009 2:00 AM GMT
    Delivis saidMy dream is that eventually there will be no such thing as the LGBT "community".


    Great answer!! I think what he is saying is having full equality and not being placed in a catagory because of sexuality. The day where homosexuality is completely the norm just like heterosexuality. Although, I don't think that will be in our life time. But, who knows.
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    Jun 03, 2009 2:02 AM GMT
    LGBT community can do a lot more to help LGBT people who have coming out issues or need support against discrimination and hate crimes. LGBT youth especially need help to affirm their sexual orientation. We need more role models in more communities (outside LGBT ghettos especially) that present examples of healthy successful lifestyle that children could emulate. By the way, most gay children grew up in straight families. Doh! Instead of hanging out in gay meccas and focusing on pursuing carnal pleasures all the time, successful gays coupled or not should become more visible in the rest of society. As the nation moves toward greater political progressiveness the rewards will only get better. Forming friendships with wider circles of straights, gaining prestige in society (gays are known for being great artists but we are much more than that), helping shape the next generation, bigger things await us.
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    Jun 03, 2009 2:02 AM GMT


    Equality.
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    Jun 03, 2009 2:23 AM GMT
    jprichva said And there will always need to be a place where we can spend some time among the company of those for whom such things need no explanation. Maybe not all the time, maybe not even most, but some.

    Well said.
    We gain more by becoming a part of the mainstream. But there should always be something set aside that is ours alone,
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    Jun 03, 2009 2:26 AM GMT
    I hope for the disappearance of the heterosexual community.

    We are all queer. When a man is attracted to other men, he is queer. When a straight man treats his partner with respect and equality, he is queer. When a woman does not feel confined by the construct of femininity, she is queer. When ever anyone bucks the rigid roles that do not fit us and dares to be themselves, they are queer.

    I hope for a nation of queers where we all respect each other not for our sameness, but for what makes each of us unique.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 03, 2009 2:40 AM GMT
    Love that, Zombie. Make a video for our YouTube channel.
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    Jun 03, 2009 2:42 AM GMT
    Delivis saidMy dream is that eventually there will be no such thing as the LGBT "community".


    wasn't that hitler's dream?
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    Jun 03, 2009 2:45 AM GMT
    blinktwice4y said
    Delivis saidMy dream is that eventually there will be no such thing as the LGBT "community".


    wasn't that hitler's dream?



    Hahaha it sure was..icon_eek.gif
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    Jun 03, 2009 2:47 AM GMT
    I think it's important to remember that we (Gays) are in different situations in our different countries. I completely understand why American's are feeling so passionate about their community right now. You guys are still fighting a war that we've already won, and you've lost some recent battles. It's very important for you to rally together and move forward as a united front as you continue your fight.

    I don't feel like we really need to keep that going here in Canada. I feel that we have had our victories, won our war, and now its time to go back to civilian life. However, like soldiers, some have been fighting the war for so long they can't move on to life in peace times.

    I think Delivis is on the right track. We've always just asked for equality, to be treated the same way as our heterosexual counterparts. Isn't the realization of that dream the day we no longer need our own separate community?

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    Jun 03, 2009 3:36 AM GMT
    everyone comes out about the time they realize they're queer. once, out, nobody in any way lives their lives in reaction to how they think they're percieved by the straight world. hopefully, the worlds become more integrated.

    and equal rights/ protections the world over, duh.
  • Delivis

    Posts: 2332

    Jun 03, 2009 4:03 AM GMT
    UofTLatinBoy saidI think it's important to remember that we (Gays) are in different situations in our different countries. I completely understand why American's are feeling so passionate about their community right now. You guys are still fighting a war that we've already won, and you've lost some recent battles. It's very important for you to rally together and move forward as a united front as you continue your fight.

    I don't feel like we really need to keep that going here in Canada. I feel that we have had our victories, won our war, and now its time to go back to civilian life. However, like soldiers, some have been fighting the war for so long they can't move on to life in peace times.

    I think Delivis is on the right track. We've always just asked for equality, to be treated the same way as our heterosexual counterparts. Isn't the realization of that dream the day we no longer need our own separate community?



    You mostly understand what i meant, i think. But even now i do not identify with or build social solidarity around a "gay community". I realize many people do and i would encourage them not to. When it comes to sexual equality under the law I make common cause with everyone who believes that all sexual orientations should be legal and equal including the right to marry and so on. But that is it, I do not identify as being part of a gay community anymore than I identify being part of a brown eyed community, or a white skinned community.

    The goal should be to be integrated into society not to make an in-group/out-group destinction between "us" ("the gays") and them ("mainstream society/straights"). To do so is to forsake the very equality that at least I hope society will achieve.
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    Jun 03, 2009 4:07 AM GMT
    Delivis said
    UofTLatinBoy saidI think it's important to remember that we (Gays) are in different situations in our different countries. I completely understand why American's are feeling so passionate about their community right now. You guys are still fighting a war that we've already won, and you've lost some recent battles. It's very important for you to rally together and move forward as a united front as you continue your fight.

    I don't feel like we really need to keep that going here in Canada. I feel that we have had our victories, won our war, and now its time to go back to civilian life. However, like soldiers, some have been fighting the war for so long they can't move on to life in peace times.

    I think Delivis is on the right track. We've always just asked for equality, to be treated the same way as our heterosexual counterparts. Isn't the realization of that dream the day we no longer need our own separate community?



    You mostly understand what i meant, i think. But even now i do not identify with or build social solidarity around a "gay community". I realize many people do and i would encourage them not to. When it comes to sexual equality under the law I make common cause with everyone who believes that all sexual orientations should be legal and equal including the right to marry and so on. But that is it, I do not identify as being part of a gay community anymore than I identify being part of a brown eyed community, or a white skinned community.

    The goal should be to be integrated into society not to make an in-group/out-group destinction between "us" ("the gays") and them ("mainstream society/straights"). To do so is to forsake the very equality that at least I hope society will achieve.


    The goal used to be to change the society to be more accepting of diversity in gender and sexuality as well as a more just place for everyone. I don't see how assimilating into straight society accomplishes that.
  • Delivis

    Posts: 2332

    Jun 03, 2009 4:10 AM GMT
    jprichva saidI would not like to see the total disappearance of a gay community.

    Like it or not, there are things we have in common that we will never be able to share with our straight friends and neighbors. Even if they magically lose their disgust for icky sex, and even with the best intentions, I don't think they will ever understand what a gay man feels when he is with a man he connects with physically, emotionally, intellectually. At some level, I doubt we will ever erase their idea that this is some sort of simulacrum of "real" love.

    And there will always need to be a place where we can spend some time among the company of those for whom such things need no explanation. Maybe not all the time, maybe not even most, but some.


    With all due respect, I think sentiments like this are part of the problem.

    What makes your belief that straight people will never understand that you feel real love any different from the belief of the people you describe who believe you will never feel real love? Both are equvilant baseless assumptions, i think.

    Many of my friends, as far as I can tell, do regard the feelings i have towards another man to be just as real - the exact same feeling(s) infact - as the feelings they have towards their opposite-sex partners.

    The goal should not be to have our little nook of society where we can go to be us, different and seperate but legally equal from everyone else. The goal should be to change the culture so that the majority of people realise that people of all sexualities are - apart from their sexuality - the same just as the goal with racism should be to make people of all skin colours and ethnicities realise that people of different skin colours - apart from their skin colour - are the same.
  • Delivis

    Posts: 2332

    Jun 03, 2009 4:11 AM GMT
    Christian73 said
    Delivis said
    UofTLatinBoy saidI think it's important to remember that we (Gays) are in different situations in our different countries. I completely understand why American's are feeling so passionate about their community right now. You guys are still fighting a war that we've already won, and you've lost some recent battles. It's very important for you to rally together and move forward as a united front as you continue your fight.

    I don't feel like we really need to keep that going here in Canada. I feel that we have had our victories, won our war, and now its time to go back to civilian life. However, like soldiers, some have been fighting the war for so long they can't move on to life in peace times.

    I think Delivis is on the right track. We've always just asked for equality, to be treated the same way as our heterosexual counterparts. Isn't the realization of that dream the day we no longer need our own separate community?



    You mostly understand what i meant, i think. But even now i do not identify with or build social solidarity around a "gay community". I realize many people do and i would encourage them not to. When it comes to sexual equality under the law I make common cause with everyone who believes that all sexual orientations should be legal and equal including the right to marry and so on. But that is it, I do not identify as being part of a gay community anymore than I identify being part of a brown eyed community, or a white skinned community.

    The goal should be to be integrated into society not to make an in-group/out-group destinction between "us" ("the gays") and them ("mainstream society/straights"). To do so is to forsake the very equality that at least I hope society will achieve.


    The goal used to be to change the society to be more accepting of diversity in gender and sexuality as well as a more just place for everyone. I don't see how assimilating into straight society accomplishes that.


    Thinking of it in terms of "straight society" and "gay society" is exactly the problem to begin with.
  • ep83

    Posts: 144

    Jun 03, 2009 4:19 AM GMT
    DelivisThe goal should not be to have our little nook of society where we can go to be us, different and seperate but legally equal from everyone else. The goal should be to change the culture so that the majority of people realise that people of all sexualities are - apart from their sexuality - the same just as the goal with racism should be to make people of all skin colours and ethnicities realise that people of different skin colours - apart from their skin colour - are the same.


    I completely agree. Sexuality and sexual orientation should only be incidental to who someone is, not a defining feature of their identity or a marker for a specific community. However, I understand the position of the older crowd as well. I think that this divide is largely generational. Those of us who have grown up in a far more accepting society and have never felt the need to seek refuge in an isolated "community" are bound to have a different outlook on it.
  • Delivis

    Posts: 2332

    Jun 03, 2009 4:28 AM GMT
    aurevoir said
    Delivis said
    Christian73 said
    Delivis said
    UofTLatinBoy saidI think it's important to remember that we (Gays) are in different situations in our different countries. I completely understand why American's are feeling so passionate about their community right now. You guys are still fighting a war that we've already won, and you've lost some recent battles. It's very important for you to rally together and move forward as a united front as you continue your fight.

    I don't feel like we really need to keep that going here in Canada. I feel that we have had our victories, won our war, and now its time to go back to civilian life. However, like soldiers, some have been fighting the war for so long they can't move on to life in peace times.

    I think Delivis is on the right track. We've always just asked for equality, to be treated the same way as our heterosexual counterparts. Isn't the realization of that dream the day we no longer need our own separate community?



    You mostly understand what i meant, i think. But even now i do not identify with or build social solidarity around a "gay community". I realize many people do and i would encourage them not to. When it comes to sexual equality under the law I make common cause with everyone who believes that all sexual orientations should be legal and equal including the right to marry and so on. But that is it, I do not identify as being part of a gay community anymore than I identify being part of a brown eyed community, or a white skinned community.

    The goal should be to be integrated into society not to make an in-group/out-group destinction between "us" ("the gays") and them ("mainstream society/straights"). To do so is to forsake the very equality that at least I hope society will achieve.


    The goal used to be to change the society to be more accepting of diversity in gender and sexuality as well as a more just place for everyone. I don't see how assimilating into straight society accomplishes that.


    Thinking of it in terms of "straight society" and "gay society" is exactly the problem to begin with.


    It's not a "problem" if it's reality.


    Alrighty, and the definition of marriage between a man and a woman is not a "problem", it is just a reality.

    Like I said, this sort of language and mentality that seperates people into us and them based on incidental characteristics like sexual orientation, skin colour, sex, or whatever is the problem to begin with. The straight (or perhaps closeted gay) homophobe also thinks of all gay people as a singular group distinct from his own group - "the straights" - just like many gay people lump everyone of their own incidental sexuality in with them as a group against everyone else.
  • Delivis

    Posts: 2332

    Jun 03, 2009 4:49 AM GMT
    aurevoir said
    Delivis said
    aurevoir said
    Delivis said
    Christian73 said
    Delivis said
    UofTLatinBoy saidI think it's important to remember that we (Gays) are in different situations in our different countries. I completely understand why American's are feeling so passionate about their community right now. You guys are still fighting a war that we've already won, and you've lost some recent battles. It's very important for you to rally together and move forward as a united front as you continue your fight.

    I don't feel like we really need to keep that going here in Canada. I feel that we have had our victories, won our war, and now its time to go back to civilian life. However, like soldiers, some have been fighting the war for so long they can't move on to life in peace times.

    I think Delivis is on the right track. We've always just asked for equality, to be treated the same way as our heterosexual counterparts. Isn't the realization of that dream the day we no longer need our own separate community?



    You mostly understand what i meant, i think. But even now i do not identify with or build social solidarity around a "gay community". I realize many people do and i would encourage them not to. When it comes to sexual equality under the law I make common cause with everyone who believes that all sexual orientations should be legal and equal including the right to marry and so on. But that is it, I do not identify as being part of a gay community anymore than I identify being part of a brown eyed community, or a white skinned community.

    The goal should be to be integrated into society not to make an in-group/out-group destinction between "us" ("the gays") and them ("mainstream society/straights"). To do so is to forsake the very equality that at least I hope society will achieve.


    The goal used to be to change the society to be more accepting of diversity in gender and sexuality as well as a more just place for everyone. I don't see how assimilating into straight society accomplishes that.


    Thinking of it in terms of "straight society" and "gay society" is exactly the problem to begin with.


    It's not a "problem" if it's reality.


    Alrighty, and the definition of marriage between a man and a woman is not a "problem", it is just a reality.

    Like I said, this sort of language and mentality that seperates people into us and them based on incidental characteristics like sexual orientation, skin colour, sex, or whatever is the problem to begin with. The straight (or perhaps closeted gay) homophobe also thinks of all gay people as a singular group distinct from his own group - "the straights" - just like many gay people lump everyone of their own incidental sexuality in with them as a group against everyone else.


    I didn't say anything about marriage equality, which is a seperate issue.

    But if you'd like to continue living as if there will ever be parity among all individuals, then go right ahead, knock yourself out. Campaign, write a book, and take your mysterious visions to Oprah. However, it's not for me. People will always find a way to seperate themselves from others. Homophobia, classism, racism...none of it ever goes away. Bigoted ways of thinking just fall out of vogue in the mainstream sphere, but they are never fully expunged. The most you can hope for is legal equality and let the rest work itself out.


    Well that's just dandy. Do you really believe this? Do you not care if someone gets called a nigger or if someone treats a woman like they were less than a full human being as long as they both have legal equality? But even if so, I think you are right that all forms of tribalism will never go away, but that is a seperate debate. The point is someone can not condemn others for having a tribalistic, bigoted, my-group vs their-group view of things if they are working from the same framework.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 03, 2009 4:55 AM GMT
    delivis, i admire your ardor, but your logic is deeply flawed.
  • Delivis

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    Jun 03, 2009 4:57 AM GMT
    dancerjack saiddelivis, i admire your ardor, but your logic is deeply flawed.


    Poke some holes in it then..icon_smile.gif This is only a snipet of my full views on the subject, but i am a big believer in improving one's own views through dialectical processes.
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    Jun 03, 2009 5:00 AM GMT
    Delivis said
    dancerjack saiddelivis, i admire your ardor, but your logic is deeply flawed.


    Poke some holes in it then..icon_smile.gif This is only a snipet of my full views on the subject, but i am a big believer in improving one's own views through dialectical processes.


    i don't see that you are. i see you arguing your own points louder than anyone else's and resisting anything they have to say. i see an intelligent mind that is teetering on ranting. i don't feel compelled to poke more holes in that which is already perforated beyond repair. you will follow your own way, and that's fine. that's part of what the rainbow symbolizes. i'm glad you feel strongly, but i think your "utopia" sounds more like "hell."