Gay Community vs. Obama....Hardball vid

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 04, 2009 11:40 PM GMT
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697/#31111399
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Jun 05, 2009 12:40 AM GMT
    icon_eek.gif Are they spying on our threads? It's like...de ja vous! icon_eek.gif
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    Jun 05, 2009 6:59 AM GMT
    That lady is hot.

    ...


    But yes, they are reading deez forums.
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    Jun 05, 2009 9:03 AM GMT
    I also think that along with the stop order, a reinstatement order should be offered to those discharged under the policy.
  • roadbikeRob

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    Jun 05, 2009 3:48 PM GMT
    What is this, another bitch and complain session about how President Obama just ignores the gay community?
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    Jun 05, 2009 3:57 PM GMT
    Chris Matthews is just a spoiler, and I almost never watch his show anymore. He rarely lets his guests get a word in edgewise, and when he does it's so they can assassinate someone for the sake of his ratings.

    He went after Hillary Clinton last year, because he has a grudge with Bill, and became a big Obama cheerleader during the election. Now he figures he can help his ratings by turning and attacking him. A treacherous snake, I simply ignore him. He has nothing to say, just raises issues for the sake of self-serving controversy.
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    Jun 05, 2009 4:11 PM GMT
    wow.. shes a full blown lesbien... even has a baby mullet... lol... but its rediculous.. im in the military... simply for the fact that it pays for my school.. i have not pride in protecting a constitution that discriminates against my life style.. why fight for our "freedom" when there is none... its dumb.. and guys fuck other guys all the time... soooo yea... dont ask dont tell will just be one less thing for them to worry about.. i mean its the freaking military...they worry about gay people other than terrorist attacks... why put a force at half its capabitlity when theres gays and lesbians that can do a better job than these strait people...
  • TexanMan82

    Posts: 893

    Jun 05, 2009 8:58 PM GMT
    Red_Vespa saidChris Matthews is just a spoiler, and I almost never watch his show anymore. He rarely lets his guests get a word in edgewise, and when he does it's so they can assassinate someone for the sake of his ratings.

    He went after Hillary Clinton last year, because he has a grudge with Bill, and became a big Obama cheerleader during the election. Now he figures he can help his ratings by turning and attacking him. A treacherous snake, I simply ignore him. He has nothing to say, just raises issues for the sake of self-serving controversy.


    Soooo....do you have anything of substance to say of the topic of their conversation, or just about the host who is apparently pro-gay rights?
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    Jun 05, 2009 9:08 PM GMT
    Kinda funny TM, you jump all over RV for not sayin anything on topic and you didn't contribute anything towards the topic cept for sayin that RV wasn't on topic. I thought RV's comment tells something about Chris Mathews and he IS the subject of the topic...icon_confused.gif
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    Jun 05, 2009 9:17 PM GMT
    TexanMan82 saidSoooo....do you have anything of substance to say of the topic of their conversation, or just about the host who is apparently pro-gay rights?

    First, I'm not sure Matthews really is all that pro-gay rights. Second, he had that discussion not merely to explore the topic, but to drive a wedge between Obama and the GLBT community, in my view. That's a pattern he's had with other political figures, as well. Which is why I made my observation above, in addressing the OP topic here "Gay Community vs. Obama..."
  • TexanMan82

    Posts: 893

    Jun 05, 2009 9:53 PM GMT
    steltom saidKinda funny TM, you jump all over RV for not sayin anything on topic and you didn't contribute anything towards the topic cept for sayin that RV wasn't on topic. I thought RV's comment tells something about Chris Mathews and he IS the subject of the topic...icon_confused.gif


    What's your definition of "jump all over"?

    I agree with the guests. Obama hasn't done enough.
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    Jun 05, 2009 10:50 PM GMT
    Even though he is drawing atten to the fact that Obama may not be following through on another promise, I'd say from listening to the whole video I'd have to say that Chris may not be all that "Pro Gay". RV is drawing atten to the fact that Chris has done similar things w/other candidates in the past on different subjects.
    The "jumping all over him" comment was maybe a little harsh meaning that you were giving RV a hard time for bringing up the fact that Chris may just be using the opportunity brought on by saying Obama is failing the gay community by not following through on a promise from his campaign. Make sense? Yes he, (Obama) has not done enough in my belief also.

    Alright I'm a big dumb ass... at 6:50 into the interview Chris actually says... "I'm a straight guy and I do support your cause..." Sound sincere to you? He wouldn't just say that cause of the guests and the whole subject, right?
  • coolarmydude

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    Jun 05, 2009 11:31 PM GMT
    Truth be told, Chris Matthews isn't the first to make that point about Obama's inactions on GLBT issues. So obviously, this isn't Chris Matthews being a wedge.
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    Jun 05, 2009 11:44 PM GMT
    Maybe I am wrong. I'm gonna research a bit about Chris Mathews opinions on some of our plight and see if maybe I am wrong. I may eat my words from earlier. I just will try to make them easier to swallow. icon_razz.gif
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    Jun 05, 2009 11:58 PM GMT
    Seems to me that RV was the only one actually listening to the video. Joe S, the head of HRC, said a few times that they and other organizations are working with Obama and the members of the armed services on these issues. I don't understand why everyone thinks that we should be Obama's first and main priority. He is not just our president. Calson, Red Vespa and a few others have also said in so many words in different threads that our issues are important to the white house, but they, in my opinion, are not forefront issues. They are important, most definately, but we are the ones that have to make sure these issues are in the minds of the fence riders and the naysayers because ultimately Congress and in some cases, voters, will be deciding our fates and surely you can not pin your hopes on one man. That is just ludicrous.
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    Jun 06, 2009 12:15 AM GMT
    I guess I can use a little patience. Good things come to those that can wait.
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    Jun 06, 2009 12:38 AM GMT
    ErikTaurean saidSeems to me that RV was the only one actually listening to the video. [SNIP]

    Calson, Red Vespa and a few others have also said in so many words in different threads that our issues are important to the white house, but they, in my opinion, are not forefront issues.

    Not sure I was the only one, but I actually saw it live on the air, prior to the posting of this clip. One of the few times I've watched a Hardball segment recently, but the gay issue attracted me.

    I studied tactics in the US Army, and I learned the importance of always winning IN THE END, the only true measure of victory. That means you can retreat today, and decline battle, so long as you eventually win, and the other guy loses. How you get there is surprisingly unimportant in modern warfare, so long as you get there, and your opponent doesn't. Unlike in pre-modern times, today it's as much about being smart enough to know when to avoid a fight as when to make an all-out effort.

    That differs from the "win at all costs today" strategy that some gay leaders have pursued, that has mostly gotten us a long string of defeats. What's needed on the national level is a patient, rational, long-term strategic vision for gay rights success, not the disjointed, immediate gratification chaos that has marked our efforts in the past. Indeed, even our recent successes have been more about local grass-roots efforts, and some fortunate court decisions, plus state legislative changes helped by the very Obama election victory that some here are doubting.

    And so when I observe President's Obama relative silence on gay rights, I have to consider whether he's waiting for the right moment, and the right battle, when our enemies, the Republicans, are at their weakest. Plus Obama has other urgent issues that the majority of Americans want him to consider first, regarding the economy and the war.

    But even I will begin to question his commitment to gay rights if clear opportunities are lost. I've said before that I think the time for gay rights will come no sooner than his second year in office. And even then the prospects for the 2010 Congressional elections may play a part in what he can attempt.
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    Jun 06, 2009 1:10 AM GMT
    Obama is so insightful on so many issues that it makes me second guess my reaction to his inaction because I wonder if he doesnt have a better judgment on the timing for action.
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    Jun 06, 2009 1:24 AM GMT
    Red_Vespa saidAnd so when I observe President's Obama relative silence on gay rights, I have to consider whether he's waiting for the right moment, and the right battle, when our enemies, the Republicans, are at their weakest. Plus Obama has other urgent issues that the majority of Americans want him to consider first, regarding the economy and the war.
    I am not RUSHing to judgment either. My gut feeling is that he is waiting to play his hand.

    He is filling the ranks with people to help further these goals. Sotomayor for instance is said to be aware of gay issues and inclusive of them, and His pick for secretary of Army (McHugh) is in favor of ending DADT. McHugh is also a Republican which is a clever way of making sure the republicans cannot say this is a Democrat ploy. I get the impression that Obama is doing a lot of little things that are going to add up to a win for gays. With less than a year in office and still having people to appoint, I am patiently waiting to see what the outcome will be for sure. And remember, the republicans are fighting him and his appointees every step of the way.

    Before the election Obama said some things that were almost a coded way of saying that he will make a way for gays to help themselves. I think he is up to more than some people are giving him credit for.
  • coolarmydude

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    Jun 06, 2009 1:50 AM GMT
    I shall wait and see. I also hope that if and when he repeals DADT that it will be retroactive to include those already discharged under the unjust policy.

    In the meantime, he deserves the just criticisms.
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    Jun 06, 2009 4:10 AM GMT
    "Unlike in pre-modern times, today it's as much about being smart enough to know when to avoid a fight as when to make an all-out effort"

    That idea was written by Sun Tzu in "The Art of War" over 2,500 years ago and a book that most every military and business leader has read.

    Just a point of interest. Not taking sides in this debate. I generally like Chris Mathews but he does talk over his guests in a very annoying way. He does bring some of the best spokespeople from each side on, though.
  • coolarmydude

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    Jun 07, 2009 12:33 PM GMT
    That's why the program is called HARDBALL. He hardballs his guests to make them stick to a yes or no answer. Sometimes I am trying to listen to what the guest is saying when he interrupts, and it's annoying because I think they're bring up a good point, but he's simply living up to the program's intent. He's playing HARDBALL.
  • tobyb

    Posts: 111

    Jun 07, 2009 1:22 PM GMT
    I'm not a Chris Matthews fan, but I find it odd how often journalists' motives are questioned. Maybe Matthews supports gay issues, but I'm sure his primary motive in running this piece was to fill his hour with conversation/argument that he thought viewers wouldn't ignore.

    I agree with the folks who are happy for Obama to decide when to move on which issue. I personally find health care reform WAY higher on my agenda that DADT or marriage. Our upside-down profit-driven health care system has made us a sicker, over-medicalized country, and it costs us mucho money and jobs.

    Maybe for that reason, I question the motives of the spokepeople on the piece from the gay organizations. I find they are the ones who want to inflame the debate. Gay orgs seem to love finding and demonizing the handfull of rightwing wingnuts who line up on the other side of gay rights issues. Maybe gay rights professionals do that because it gets them on TV and helps raise donations.

    I wish our gay rights groups would spend more time counselling suicidal gay teens, housing homeless gay teens, free healthcaring for uninsured gay people, etc.

    It may be more fun for them, but I think they spend too much time awareness-raising, Tshirt-selling, TV-appearing, and gala dinner fundraising.
  • coolarmydude

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    Jun 07, 2009 7:36 PM GMT
    tobyb said, "I wish our gay rights groups would spend more time counselling suicidal gay teens, housing homeless gay teens, free healthcaring for uninsured gay people, etc. It may be more fun for them, but I think they spend too much time awareness-raising, Tshirt-selling, TV-appearing, and gala dinner fundraising."



    Where do you get all that from? Have you heard of local strategy and national strategy? I feel that your criticisms are disingenuous.
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    Jun 07, 2009 8:10 PM GMT
    coolarmydude saidtobyb said, "I wish our gay rights groups would spend more time counselling suicidal gay teens, housing homeless gay teens, free healthcaring for uninsured gay people, etc. It may be more fun for them, but I think they spend too much time awareness-raising, Tshirt-selling, TV-appearing, and gala dinner fundraising."


    Where do you get all that from? Have you heard of local strategy and national strategy? I feel that your criticisms are disingenuous.
    Also, the stuff mentioned are not gay rights but rather gay outreach or charity. There are numerous groups and organizations that do that .. gay centers, trevor project, etc ... and they are more than happy to get donations.

    In any case I am reminded what the president said against criticisms that he was taking on too much in the first 100 days. He dismissed the notion that he could not basically chew gum and walk at the same time.