FORUMS > Spirituality Forum Rules

GuerrillaSodomite saidInteresting topic. A word of advice though. When our resident angry atheists descend upon your thread like the ravening hounds of the Wild Hunt, try not to let it get to you that much.

GuerrillaSodomite saidInteresting topic. A word of advice though. When our resident angry atheists descend upon your thread like the ravening hounds of the Wild Hunt, try not to let it get to you that much.

GuerrillaSodomite saidInteresting topic. A word of advice though. When our resident angry atheists descend upon your thread like the ravening hounds of the Wild Hunt, try not to let it get to you that much.

Pheo saidAnyone a Pagan in here? I hardly find any pagans who are gay. It's kind of funny and odd, but depressing at the same time. Most of my relationships ended because of "OMG! PAGAN! BURN IN HELL!" when they find out about it and after that I just give them a lecture that Hell is Hel which is of Viking/Asatru faiths... And then walk away. I'm separated from a gay pagan who I love, but I have a feeling it's not going to work being as... He's a non practicing Pagan and is... Well against my belief system. I think it's funny I keep running into these men. Even when I was about to give up a fight with an infection I had... Not an STD btw, but an infection that moved to my lungs and still trying to get through it, when I shown signs of getting better he just... Stops talking romantically. So anyways. That's just babble.

If there are ANY pagans out there or anyone with an open mind who would like to discuss Paganism or just religion in general... Hit me up or reply. This would be fun. =)

I'm a pagan; Gardenian. Oddly enough I'm hispanic but I have lineaged roots, just finished my Duece three weeks ago.

If he's pagan, it should be a +, not a - . Typically it's the Abrahamic religions (because of their missionary nature) that tend to be cold towards religious tolerance. If he's not a practicing Pagan, trust that he'll most likely return to it at a later time...that's one of the liberties we share. I know I've gone through some periods where I distance myself but I end up grounding myself and returning in the end.

There are also those that take Wicca or Paganism as a mere topic of curiosity and look into it briefly and then move on to something else. Those are still seeking something, and it's best to let them find it on their own. Only you know what you are really looking for...

Plus there's a hell (haha, Hel)of a lot more people out there if this one doesn't work out

Oh, and Nightwish rocks btw MP!!

mynyun said Interesting. Because when I started reading and learning and exploring paganism and mysticism and the like it seem paganism and homosexuality went hand and hand. It seemed that for every 4 pagans I met online 1 of them was gay. I guess that's not the case anymore.
Well I'm pagan.
And most other pagans, especially ones leaning toward wicca, don't believe in a Hell/Hel or Satan or things of that nature.

Pheo saidI hardly find any pagans who are gay.

GuerrillaSodomite saidInteresting topic. A word of advice though. When our resident angry atheists descend upon your thread like the ravening hounds of the Wild Hunt, try not to let it get to you that much.

Anto saidIsn't 'Pagan' a really general term?
Do people really believe in this sort of stuff or is it more just for fun?

GuerrillaSodomite said

Anto saidIsn't 'Pagan' a really general term?
Do people really believe in this sort of stuff or is it more just for fun?

It's a broad term that generally refers to any number of pre christian European religions. Some people dabble for fun, but for many others it's as significant and lifelong a devotion as any serious "mainstream" religion adherent's. My first boyfriend and his lesbian pals were all Wiccan and had their own circle. They considered themselves Pagans, but also considered those following Druidic, Shamanistic and any number of other systems equally Pagan and equally valid.

Sebastian18 said

GuerrillaSodomite said

Anto saidIsn't 'Pagan' a really general term?
Do people really believe in this sort of stuff or is it more just for fun?

It's a broad term that generally refers to any number of pre christian European religions. Some people dabble for fun, but for many others it's as significant and lifelong a devotion as any serious "mainstream" religion adherent's. My first boyfriend and his lesbian pals were all Wiccan and had their own circle. They considered themselves Pagans, but also considered those following Druidic, Shamanistic and any number of other systems equally Pagan and equally valid.

To make things a little harrier, there's a further delineation between neo-pagans and reconstructionist beliefs. An example of the former would be adherents to Wicca and (arguably) neo-druidic groups; the latter would include individuals seeking to re-connect/recreate the religious traditions of early Europe/Levant such as members of Asatru/Theodism or members of Hellenismos.

Sedative said
Also important to note the "neo-" distinction. As earlier european religions were not exactly as blameless and as peaceful as they're made to look like now. They had human sacrifices and killed blameless people too (like 'changelings' for example, probably just poor introverted children). Celtic druids especially were notorious for conducting sacrifices. Same with norse mythology. The burning alive/burying alive of female slaves in funerals for example. There's a pattern y'see... wherever any sort of elite clergy arises in religions, it devolves into killing, sooner or later.

Neopaganism in contrast seems more like nature worship and the more philosophical religions of the far east to me rather than their original counterparts. Sure they may use the same gods/goddesses and terminologies, but they're not actually the same anymore.

Michael_Mccarry said

GuerrillaSodomite saidInteresting topic. A word of advice though. When our resident angry atheists descend upon your thread like the ravening hounds of the Wild Hunt, try not to let it get to you that much.

I'd be far more worried about the religious nutcases. Just wondering, are many pagans also into D&D?

Gaymedes saidOh, and anyone who wants some amazing Tarot cards, get "The Cosmic Tribe" by Stevee Postman. The art is really cool, there is nudity, and 3 different Lover Cards (Gay, Lesbian, and Straight).

SedativeAlso important to note the "neo-" distinction. As earlier european religions were not exactly as blameless and as peaceful as they're made to look like now. They had human sacrifices and killed blameless people too (like 'changelings' for example, probably just poor introverted children). Celtic druids especially were notorious for conducting sacrifices. Same with norse mythology. The burning alive/burying alive of female slaves in funerals for example. There's a pattern y'see... wherever any sort of elite clergy arises in religions, it devolves into killing, sooner or later.

mynyun said

Michael_Mccarry said

GuerrillaSodomite saidInteresting topic. A word of advice though. When our resident angry atheists descend upon your thread like the ravening hounds of the Wild Hunt, try not to let it get to you that much.

I'd be far more worried about the religious nutcases. Just wondering, are many pagans also into D&D?

YES.!!!
I haven't played. I have wanted to and wanted to find a group near me who plays but the small pagan group/circle I do know role plays once every week and other stuff I'm sure.
The circle the lead is a couple. The guy a Druid and his wife a Witch. Nice people. (S.E. Tennessee area)
Just seems every time they played I was busy working or something. Guess it wasn't fated to be I play with them.


And to reply to another's comment. I believe "Pagan" is a general term used to cover a lot of bases rather than either identifying ONE path only or to those eclectic types who just don't feel like being labeled as something they are or aren't.

ObsceneWish said
Honestly, this seems a bit myopic to me. You could as easily say, accurately, that wherever a governing elite arises, it devolves into killing. Pre-Christian and indigenous religions did not generally teach a gospel of love and compassion. In fact, quite a few were more interested, or as interested, in the problem of power, personal and collective.

It would also be short-sighted to reduce sacrifice to a ritual of intimidation or punishment. If one can accept that soldiers willingly die for all manner of abstract causes, it's not a difficult step to imagine willing sacrifice in a culture that believes in propitiation. Sacrifice also performed an intense psychological function. A huge amount has been written about this, but Bataille's "Tears of Eros" remains a classic on the subject.

I remember the first time I visited Chartres. The cathedral was built on the site on an ancient pagan shrine. The principal advisor to the architect of Chartres was a follower of Sophia, the female incarnation of the world soul The cathedral was literally built to represent the three qualities of Sophia: reason, imagination and memory (these had somewhat different meanings than our present definitions).

Of course, none of this was acknowledged by the church -- it's all about the Virgin Mary, even though it's well documented that the Sophia legend actually guided the cathedral imagery. I recall that during my initial tour of the cathedral, the priest took us to the basement and acknowledged that there was a well there that had been central to the original pagan shrine. And then he launched a rococo fantasy of the endless human sacrifice that took place on the site. Supposedly, people were hurled into the well to drown.

I asked him how he knew this to be true and he claimed it was part of local legend. I made several efforts to substantiate this but was unable to. I suspect the story is another example of the church's well known demonizing of the religions it replaced.

Gaymedes saidOh, and anyone who wants some amazing Tarot cards, get "The Cosmic Tribe" by Stevee Postman. The art is really cool, there is nudity, and 3 different Lover Cards (Gay, Lesbian, and Straight).

SedativeWe have a tendency to romanticize past institutions when we become tired of the one we're under. Like the 'noble savage' myth. In our country for example (the original religions of which underwent massive demonization before we were converted to christianity), the name of the creator god among the original malay tribes who were converted the easiest was appropriated for the name of the Christian god - Bathala. The Moros (Muslim malays who were very resistent to spanish colonization) were characterized as bloodthirsty human savages (when in fact they had one of the most structured and advanced culture in SE Asia at the time, evidenced today by the remnants of them in Indonesia/Malaysia). The smaller indigenous tribes who still haven't converted were accused of being cannibals, shapeshifting monsters, and followers of the devil and as such were wiped out, converted, or driven off.

Now centuries later after we threw off the spanish, suddenly these very same tribes ostracized during the Spanish period are now romanticized as brave, gallant true filipinos, fighting a noble cause by resisting the Spaniards. The truth is, they were actually headhunters. They were actually bloodthirsty. Not as much as the Spanish would have us believe, but neither were they as innocent as our history books want us to believe they were now either.

ObsceneWish said Another interesting theory is that the myth of the noble, innocent savage structures the way people in the west view children.

ObsceneWish said

SedativeWe have a tendency to romanticize past institutions when we become tired of the one we're under. Like the 'noble savage' myth. In our country for example (the original religions of which underwent massive demonization before we were converted to christianity), the name of the creator god among the original malay tribes who were converted the easiest was appropriated for the name of the Christian god - Bathala. The Moros (Muslim malays who were very resistent to spanish colonization) were characterized as bloodthirsty human savages (when in fact they had one of the most structured and advanced culture in SE Asia at the time, evidenced today by the remnants of them in Indonesia/Malaysia). The smaller indigenous tribes who still haven't converted were accused of being cannibals, shapeshifting monsters, and followers of the devil and as such were wiped out, converted, or driven off.

Now centuries later after we threw off the spanish, suddenly these very same tribes ostracized during the Spanish period are now romanticized as brave, gallant true filipinos, fighting a noble cause by resisting the Spaniards. The truth is, they were actually headhunters. They were actually bloodthirsty. Not as much as the Spanish would have us believe, but neither were they as innocent as our history books want us to believe they were now either.

Yes, the myth of the noble savage is absurdly persistent in the west and is the subject of a lot of scholarship. One of my faves on the topic is Marianna Torgovnick's "Gone Primitive: Savage Intellects, Modern Lives." In one chapter, she looks at Freud's fascination with the "primitive artifacts" that cluttered his office. HIs theories grew out of his own fantasies about the primitive. (See "Totem and Taboo" and "Civilization and its Discotents.")

Another interesting theory is that the myth of the noble, innocent savage structures the way people in the west view children. That view was first articulated by George Boas in in his book, "The Cult of Childhood."

BTW, when I said indigenous religions were often about power, I was not talking about religion as authoritarianism. Some of them, especially those rooted in African culture like Voudou, are about eliciting power from supernatural sources. (The Bataille book I mentioned illustrates this, too, with pictures of a Voudou sacrifice.)

Years ago, on a magazine assignment, I became the first whiteboy allowed to stay overnight in Oyotunji Village, a bizarre Yoruba/Voudou cult in SC. I was there for two weeks and attended many of their rituals, including one that involved animal sacrifice. These rituals were about evoking power in several dimensions, individually, as a village and as African-Americans still in a civil rights struggle. (I still have 2 totems they gave me -- both, um, oversized carvings of a cock with a face on it.) I could not resolve my own feelings that this was quite kitschy on the surface and almost terrifying after dark.

I see they are still around:
http://www.oyotunjiafricanvillage.org/?id=1

mickeytopogigio saidAh, well, you pagans now have Gingrich coming out against you. It almost makes me want to join some coven to piss him off.

TampaFitness saidI'm a practicing Wiccan and Pagan. I think that these two groups are much more tolerant of homosexuality. In fact, I'm forming a gay men's coven using sex magic as our core theme. Anyone interested :-)
Steven

Sebastian18 said

Myself, like Czarodziej, am an initiate and adherent to the religious tradition of Thelema which grew out of the philosophy of Aleister Crowley. In many ways Thelema/O.T.O. can be said to be the "parent" of the modern neopagan movement, although I personally do not identify it as such with the exception that it is non-Abrahamic in origin. In one way its much more like Buddhism and Taoism in that it can be said to represent a spiritual philosophy and actively draws upon many sources (e.g. yoga, meditation, comparative religious studies, psychology, sciences, etc.) in order to generate a wider range of understanding the human experience. In addition, I'm also ordained clergy in Ecclesia Gnostica Catholica - the Gnostic Catholic Church.