REVERSE DISCRIMINATION

  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Jun 08, 2009 3:34 AM GMT
    I debated about whether to write this, but its happened several times and I'm a little irritated.

    As we all know, if you are on a number of gay related sites (even this one), you get hit on for sex. When I chat online locally, I get blunt invitations for sex. Sometimes the person will say, do you bareback? Its all irrelevant anyway since I'm involved with someone and I'm there to chat... but I make it clear I don't bareback, I'm HIV negative...... and the person goes silent.

    There was a local gentleman, originally from Brazil, who I'd chatted with and we went through this.. .he went silent... and I ask him what difference it made, I enjoyed chatting with him... but no response. Finally after some prodding, he admitted that he was hoping to get me in the sack and that he was turned off by the fact I was HIV negative (he's poz).

    My bf's comment to this discussion was, why talk to someone when they bring up sex in the first place.... although sometimes a conversation can ensue beyond anything sexual.

    Your views?
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    Jun 08, 2009 3:47 AM GMT
    Seems to me if someone wanted to have a "chatting relationship" the topic of sex would not come up as if anyone would take the time to read the profile they would have a pretty good idea if the person is available for more than chatting. (Regardless of sexual interest - bareback, or the like).
    I guess you were trying to go beyond what this person raised, and sadly their interest in you was beyond chatting, and since the silent treatment, there only aim was to establish a sexual relationship. That is too bad, so hope you did not invest too much time in trying to figure this guy out!
    I guess just goes to show that you have to be cautious with guys as you really don't know what they want when you first start a chat....and also shows you are a big softie!! icon_smile.gif
  • Delivis

    Posts: 2332

    Jun 08, 2009 3:49 AM GMT
    How is this "reverse" discrimination? I dont think that phrase makes any sense at all.

    But anyone who I suspect if just after sex from me gets nothing but silence.
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    Jun 08, 2009 3:52 AM GMT
    Delivis saidHow is this "reverse" discrimination? I dont think that phrase makes any sense at all.

    Cuz the poz guy was put off by a neg guy, instead of the other way around.
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    Jun 08, 2009 3:56 AM GMT
    Delivis has a point - the title of your forum is not the best choice, but I am guessing you are meaning that discrimination in the fact that the person ends a "relationship" with you because they had an motive behind their correspondence and shut you out when that was not met and were more concerned about sexual status (positive/negative) . Good thing that it is only an on-line chat 'buddy' so block him and focus on your partner and your true on-line friends! icon_smile.gif
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    Jun 08, 2009 4:45 AM GMT
    It is reversed discrimation as kansn describes it because we all know that HIV+ people are discriminated against because of the stigma attached. When the guy admitted he was Poz, he rejected kansn because he was negative. That constitutes it.

    I don't know if the guy made assumptions about how you would be based on his past dealings with guys who are negative. Maybe. Kinda reaching there I think.
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    Jun 08, 2009 5:13 AM GMT
    Sounds like an incredibly irresponsible guy... he already has HIV and he's still out to bareback guys?
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    Jun 08, 2009 5:23 AM GMT
    HndsmKansan saidI debated about whether to write this, but its happened several times and I'm a little irritated.

    As we all know, if you are on a number of gay related sites (even this one), you get hit on for sex. When I chat online locally, I get blunt invitations for sex. Sometimes the person will say, do you bareback? Its all irrelevant anyway since I'm involved with someone and I'm there to chat... but I make it clear I don't bareback, I'm HIV negative...... and the person goes silent.

    There was a local gentleman, originally from Brazil, who I'd chatted with and we went through this.. .he went silent... and I ask him what difference it made, I enjoyed chatting with him... but no response. Finally after some prodding, he admitted that he was hoping to get me in the sack and that he was turned off by the fact I was HIV negative (he's poz).

    My bf's comment to this discussion was, why talk to someone when they bring up sex in the first place.... although sometimes a conversation can ensue beyond anything sexual.

    Your views?


    My take? Spend more time in Real Space instead of Cyber Space. Understand, some of the folks online are fucked up here for good reason...they're fucked in Real Space, too.

    Understand, as well, that in 2009, your chances of getting a STD, in particular HIV, are pretty darn low if you behave properly. These guys, went against everything they had been told, and LOST. Now, they're sick.

    We reap what we sow.

    There's no excuse for all that bad behavior. Period. Notta'. No way. Etc., ad nauseam. Don't let some nut case online upset you. Move on.

    Understand, his life is fucked up because he made it that way, unless the evil Gay Fairy came down and poisoned him and made him sick. You don't owe a stranger a thing, especially when it comes to promiscuity.

    This wasn't about reverse discrimination. This was about you not being a fool. Good for you.

    Understand the personality type, bud. They live in just the moment; just in THEIR moment. It's all about them. That's how they end up where they are.

    You didn't get as far as you have by being an idiot, and now is not the day to start. There's other queers in Kansas, like your boyfriend.
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    Jun 08, 2009 5:55 AM GMT
    Yah...personally, I don't get why you're online chatting with 'unknowns' when you are in a relationship? Often people choose impersonal mediums for specific reason(s), and one of those primary reasons is often sex. Hello, gay websites?! icon_confused.gif Why are you even answering personally-targeted and interactive questions regarding sex? Instead of questioning limited instances of 'reverse discrimination' by poz guys based on your sero-status, maybe your should be asking yourself why you're not simply saying, "I'm in a relationship and am not online to discuss sex."
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    Jun 08, 2009 6:12 AM GMT
    Is that your final answer?

    Sounds dead on from here.
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    Jun 08, 2009 6:32 AM GMT
    I'm not sure if you're trying to paint the poz communtiy as a bunch of guys only interested in barebacking their way through every guy they meet online. It seems that way from the context you've framed the discussion in, but maybe I misinterpreted it.

    However, on the issue of reverse discrimination in serodiscordance, I'll raise my hand and say that I've been guilty of it. Heck, I used to even have it in my profile. It was a little more subtle than "Sorry no Neg guys", but that was the general idea.

    I've softened my stance somewhat over the years, but I would still strongly prefer to be with another poz guy. I'd rather not trust a neg guy's word that he's okay with my HIV status only to have him discover he's not as comfortable with it as he thought a few weeks or months later. I've been down that road a few too many times and it's exhausting. I've only had one serodiscordant dating situation where HIV didn't end up a deal breaker, but sadly, it ended for other reasons. Who knows, in the long term it might have not have worked out either.

    So call me jaded, maybe a bit cynical, but beyond a little heavy flirting, I'm not going to be the one to pursue any neg guy for dating purposes. If he's really interested in me, then he's going to have to be the one to put himself out there first, because I don't have the emotional endurance to do it anymore.

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    Jun 08, 2009 7:07 AM GMT
    I am confused bro...help me understand, why r u online lookinicon_question.gif if ur in a relationshipicon_exclaim.gif Now ur complaining about sum dude being HIV Positiveicon_eek.gif Don't complain about anyone if u have skeletons in ur closet yoicon_exclaim.gif
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    Jun 08, 2009 7:22 AM GMT
    I'm with Guerrilla on this one. A neg guy will literally have to jump through hoops of fire while twirling fire batons to get me to go on a date with him.

    It isn't that neg people do not have a problem with dating us it is that us poz people have a problem dating you. At least some of us. We are not all sex starved which seems to be the major consensus. Frankly, I am getting tired of all these ZOMG HIV SEX !!!1111!!!oneoneone WHY DIDN'T HE TELL ME BEFORE WE MET OMGDOIHAVEITSINCEHELOOKEDATMYPROFILE????////?>?

    and your irritated?
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    Jun 08, 2009 7:38 AM GMT
    muchmorethanmuscle saidI have to express that Chris is either inadvertently or expressly making a generalization that all HIV+ men "require" or want bareback sex. That's a blanket statement that's not fair to all people affected by HIV. There are HIV+ men that use condoms.

    I can see this getting ugly.


    That was my interpretation. If he was simply interested in exploring the issue of reverse discrimination in serodiscordance, he wouldn't have expressly coupled it with the issue of barebacking and would not have worded it the way he did. To me it seems like just another one of these guys on here that wants to promote the idea that poz guys are only interested in barebacking their way through the entire gay community.

    And I doubt it will get too ugly. I'm probably the only person likely to have tantrum over it, but I'll forgo my usual rabid rant and say it just diminishes someone in my eyes and leave it at that.

    Edit: However, I can see a real good flame war brewing over the comments some of the other posters made about him being in a relationship and chatting with other guys about sex online. I may yet return with Popcorn Cat or even Brenda if the Gods of Faggoty Flame War smile upon this thread.icon_wink.gif
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    Jun 08, 2009 7:48 AM GMT
    muchmorethanmuscle saidWELL...YOU KNOW SOMETHING????!!!!


    Maybe some of us want a rant!

    Okay...go..

    I got popcorn and am ready to watch! icon_smile.gif

    16609682


    My Brenda is bigger than yours.
    Photobucket


    And we really shouldn't bring her out until if and when the shit really starts flying. And generally, one should start out with Popcorn Cat and works one's way up to Brenda if the conflict warrants it.
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    Jun 08, 2009 7:53 AM GMT
    HndsmKansan said I debated about whether to write this, but its happened several times and I'm a little irritated.

    This is the background of his inquiry--As we all know, if you are on a number of gay related sites (even this one), you get hit on for sex. When I chat online locally, I get blunt invitations for sex. Sometimes the person will say, do you bareback? Its all irrelevant anyway since I'm involved with someone and I'm there to chat... but I make it clear I don't bareback, I'm HIV negative...... and the person goes silent.

    This is what he is irritated by--There was a local gentleman, originally from Brazil, who I'd chatted with and we went through this.. .he went silent... and I ask him what difference it made, I enjoyed chatting with him... but no response. Finally after some prodding, he admitted that he was hoping to get me in the sack and that he was turned off by the fact I was HIV negative (he's poz).


    I read some of the responses who seem to misinterpret Chris' meaning. I don't see it as a blanket statement of HIV+. And some of the posters thought this was simply about hooking up.

    I get GS and GrowingBig's positions. I do. For a long time as an HIV- guy, I just couldn't bring myself to date an HIV+ guy for fear of getting it. Total ignorance on my part, I know. But I was there at the beginning when it didn't even have a name. Later on, I came to realize my issues were predjudicial and the underlying issue was one of overly romanticizing sex itself when it came to turning down HIV+ men. Now, I get it and have gotten over that. I know full well exactly what I would be doing, getting involved with someone who is HIV+, but I understand why most HIV+ guys won't. As GS alluded too, it is too much work with some guys. At the very least, the hope of being HIV+ and being with someone who HIV+ means that is an issue where they are both in the same boat.

    On the other hand, I think Chris is saying that if he were single, why would an HIV+ guy turn down HIV- guy, reversing the stigma if the HIV isn't an issue for the negative guy? That is what I got out of it. I really don't see or think Chris meant anything personal or blanketing about what he is talking about.
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    Jun 08, 2009 8:00 AM GMT
    Robby:



    128871484616909126.jpg
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    Jun 08, 2009 8:24 AM GMT
    ErikTaurean saidRobby:



    128871484616909126.jpg


    Oh thank you. I needed to borrow some smiles because I'm in the middle of one doosey of a TMJ flare up so my smile is literally out of commission. Well, at least until full pharmacological intervention is successfully implemented and it's had a day or two to rest.icon_biggrin.gif
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    Jun 08, 2009 8:35 AM GMT
    growingbig saidI'm with Guerrilla on this one. A neg guy will literally have to jump through hoops of fire while twirling fire batons to get me to go on a date with him.

    It isn't that neg people do not have a problem with dating us it is that us poz people have a problem dating you. At least some of us. We are not all sex starved which seems to be the major consensus. Frankly, I am getting tired of all these ZOMG HIV SEX !!!1111!!!oneoneone WHY DIDN'T HE TELL ME BEFORE WE MET OMGDOIHAVEITSINCEHELOOKEDATMYPROFILE????////?>?

    and your irritated?


    ROFL! There have actually been a couple guys on here that thought they could catch it off a toilet seat or brushing up against someone on the bus. Granted, they were very very young and lived in a state that thought sex ed was when your daddy pointed out why the livestock were playing leap frog out in the pasture. But c'mon, these people deserve to be terrified and in fear for their life every second of every day. icon_lol.gif
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    Jun 08, 2009 8:48 AM GMT
    Guys wanting sex? Who knew?!

    I imagine most people who bareback are HIV positive already. So, he was just hoping you were HIV+ too to make matters simpler. It's hardly discrimination in my opinion, and even if it were, it's one of those rare occassions when discrimination is welcome.

    The only sad thing is that the guy is risking "superinfection" by barebacking with another HIV+ partner. Eventually, some of the meds he's on now could become ineffective against other strains of the virus that he may acquire.
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    Jun 08, 2009 9:04 AM GMT
    I hate When I IM with guys and the convo is going good but then they just have to say "soo what are you wearing?"..."are you horny?"...ughh icon_mad.gif
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Jun 08, 2009 11:47 AM GMT
    Well let me say I knew I was was inviting a variety of criticisms by discussing this in a forum. However it is a topic for discussion.

    Not any sort of "blanket criticism" in any way, I've just had a couple of experiences along these lines. In this case, the Brazilian in question is really an interesting guy. Educating himself in 3 countries, working as a nurse now... his family. Lots to talk about.

    When you put a topic like this out there to discuss I know I'm inviting some scrutiny of my behavior and your always going to have someone who suggests something that has no real bearing... but its cool.. you bring in other opinions and consider.... and also learn about some here and how they
    express their views.....
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Jun 08, 2009 12:22 PM GMT
    It doesn't seem like a case of "reverse" discrimination

    It seems to me like you guys had two conflicting adgendas of why you were online in the first place

    You HK were there online to "chat" I'm assuming you mean that there was never any intention of sex for you any kind
    and He made it clear to you that he was looking for sex
    so his silence and lack of interest doesn't seem out of the ordinary and I don't think he was discriminating against you
    I just think he was being cautious about finding someone who was positive like he was

    You said that this had happened to you before and
    you might want to check on what is either in your profile or the maybe the site itself that's causing this misinterpretation
  • Timbales

    Posts: 13993

    Jun 08, 2009 12:32 PM GMT
    Discrimination is discrimination, reverse is a misnomer. Everyone discriminates every day.
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Jun 08, 2009 12:33 PM GMT
    GQjock saidIt doesn't seem like a case of "reverse" discrimination

    It seems to me like you guys had two conflicting adgendas of why you were online in the first place

    You HK were there online to "chat" I'm assuming you mean that there was never any intention of sex for you any kind
    and He made it clear to you that he was looking for sex
    so his silence and lack of interest doesn't seem out of the ordinary and I don't think he was discriminating against you
    I just think he was being cautious about finding someone who was positive like he was

    You said that this had happened to you before and
    you might want to check on what is either in your profile or the maybe the site itself that's causing this misinterpretation



    I use the word "discrimination" because he made a judgement about me based on my status (and he admitted it to me). If I made a judgement about someone based on the color of their skin, I would be discriminatory.

    Part of what you say Joey, carries some weight, but I contacted him first... because I was curious about his Brazilan background. He talked to me in the beginning because he thought I was was hot (as per our conversation).

    It all ended fine, we had lunch and he admitted all this to me. Probably isn't a candidate for a "great friend", but we had a very nice conversation and he was honest with me regarding how he had treated me.