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Jun 09, 2009 5:23 PM GMT
I need my RJ friends to help me clear my mind and think!
Here we go:
My best friend attends the same University as me, we met middle of my freshman year in our writing class and hit it off immediately. I thought I was picking up gay-vibes right from the start so pursued since he was really cute and great to be around.
I find out more about him, and he starts dating this girl who I'm also good friends with. The two often has "relations", as a healthy young adult relationship would, and I think "oh damn, another breeder, oh well" and hes a great friend so I just put my emotions on the backburner.
Heres where it gets strange. He flirts with me ALL the time, often when others are around as well (including his girlfriend). Whenever we sit together he's practically sitting on top of me, always leaning on me or resting his head on my shoulder or what have you. He's come to me asking if I had any gay porn and if we could watch it together, which we have. He's asked me to be in a threesome with him and his girlfriend and shown interest in just having sex with me. Hes held my hand in public, hes kissed me on the cheek in public, and weve cuddled (spooned) on more than one occasion while going to bed. He often tells me he loves me and tells me how good I look.
I've asked him straight up if he was bisexual or gay and he said flat out no. All my friends thought he was my "secret boyfriend" for quite a while, even a bunch of people on my dorms floor who thought I was straight asked my friends if me and my friend were "together".
I really like him as more than a friend, and hes ok with that, but these actions don't indicate that hes straight at all (from my perspective)
I have no idea what to make of this.. Any suggestions or advice on how to proceed?
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Jun 09, 2009 5:34 PM GMT
First I'm going to say that how he defines himself is up to him, not anyone else. It's right the GLBT community has always fought for and should respect.
That said, you should basically proceed with this however you want.
Can you have sex with him without being emotionally invested? Will you fall for him (more than you already have)? It's been my experience once sex enters the equation, the friendship will never be the same again.
In your shoes, I'd go for it.
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Jun 09, 2009 5:40 PM GMT
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Jun 09, 2009 7:48 PM GMT
gay
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Jun 09, 2009 7:54 PM GMT
Way deep in the closet, something is stopping him from skipping over his own imaginary line of straight/gay (though from what you say he has step on the line on more than one occasion). What's his relationship with his folks and family. What are his fears?
I'd say go for it, again. How, what would you do to uninhibit him (don't get him drunk but have a glass of wine)? You know him, Right? Shit, you've watch gay porn with him. If that wasn't opportunity enough. Pull out the porn again and jump on his shit.
Or it could just be that you personally value his friendship more than a romantic relationship, so you've held back. In which case you should ease off the psuedo sexual situations. No spooning, no gay porn, or other shit that you deem as gay, if done by two men.
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Jun 09, 2009 7:56 PM GMT
Gay. Although he may not know it yet. But if he has sex with you, the friendship will probably end. Which do you value more: the friendship or a sexual encounter? Let him come to terms with himself. Be there for him. He'll need a true friend to help him come to grips with being gay. And then after he accepts himself and the friendship is intact, then maybe you can take it to the next level.
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Jun 09, 2009 7:57 PM GMT
Since you're the one being "used" in this relationship
what I would do in this case is tell this guy
WTF..... ?
If he ain't gay then what's the point of this continuing
Sounds like he finds it titillating to skirt the fence
but then denies it when the shit hits the fan
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Jun 09, 2009 8:03 PM GMT
When are gay guys going to stop trying to emulate TV sitcoms stereotypes.
For Christ sakes "LOVE THE ONE YOU ARE WITH" . CSNY
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Jun 09, 2009 8:06 PM GMT
GAY is something WE MAKE UP. You didn't ask him if he likes certain guys as more than just friends... you asked if he was gay or bi... I went to a high school (not so much my college though) where guys did wierd shit with eachother all the time. And none of them described themselves as bi. They were straight men who happened to have strong emotional or sexual bonds with other straight men.
That said, go about this carefully. Would his girlfriend know he was sleeping with you if he did? Does he plan on meeting a nice girl and settling down and popping out kids someday? Would it upset you if you slept with him and he then stopped because he was dating a girl that didn't want him sleeping with you?
You may be that one guy in the world that turns him on, or he might be just another college student exploring his sexuality. Human sexuality is a funny thing- it can't be put on a grid, it can't be measured specifically... it is an important part of emotional and physical bonds and -if you leave it at that- can make a very meaningful part of a friendship.
Good luck with it.
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Jun 09, 2009 8:06 PM GMT
Jayne,
It is best you take a deep breath and start to admit to yourself that there is a chance this isn't going to end in some fairy-tail style. A lot of us have fallen head-over-heels for a close friend, those are the hardest since we know the person so well. I did once and EricLA gave me good advice which should be passed on. Just tell him no.
What is problematic in your relationship is the overt displays of affection coupled with his statement (or denial) of bisexuality or gay. Like Timberoo said, you must respect his self-definition.
You need to tell him that his extensive flirting and suggestive actions really do lead you on to "hope" for something that cannot happen since he (as claimed) isn't gay. If he is a good friend, you need to be honest. You cannot hope for what isn't likely (seeing as though he is straight).
Ya it is crappy, but his physical actions are setting you up for a very, very large downfall. For the good and health of your friendship, it would be best to try and eliminate the strong physicality in your relationship.
I have seen this a lot, I mean A LOT and can elaborate more in private messages if you would like, but for your own mental and emotional strength, take a step back, breath, and reassess the situation objectively/
GL
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Jun 09, 2009 8:14 PM GMT
We're perhaps entering into a new era when clear distinctions between sexual orientation are starting to blur, and may remain blurred. The Metrosexual phenomenon may have been the tip of the iceberg.
He could be gay, or bi, or some new kind of fluid sexuality that doesn't fit the old definitions. When you ask him is he gay or bi he may be unable to answer you accurately, because he honestly doesn't know. He'll say straight because that's the safe standard answer.
I suspect as sexual taboos fall, the discreet boundaries we once used to delineate orientation will become fuzzy and more situational. Sex can be with the person in whose company you are, not in whose orientation society tells you.
I wouldn't pass up any boyfriend opportunities with others over this guy, but if the opening presents itself, you could give it a try. If nothing else you might have an interesting trick, and occasional fuck buddy.
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Jun 09, 2009 8:15 PM GMT
Very interesting character that one is...
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Jun 09, 2009 8:19 PM GMT
Next time you 2 are alone and there is something like that going on, just kiss him full on and see what happens. If he gets mad all you need to do is point out the gay porn and other incidents and say, "You're a cock-tease."
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Jun 09, 2009 8:21 PM GMT
What has happened if you've spent time with another guy? Has he become a little jealous?
I'd avoid sex with him. He knows you're gay, right? I'd hate to make an assumption, but I've seen "straight" pursuers snub a fellow because they discover their pursuee is gay. Strange, I know, but maybe he's attracted to you because it would be meaningless (to him) if you had sex.
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Jun 09, 2009 9:08 PM GMT
Dude, you need to RUN, not walk, the other way. It's all fine and good for the guys above to say "labels are crap" and "let him define himself how he wants" but if you're emotionally invested in him and getting more so due to his actions, you're setting yourself up for a WORLD of hurt when he says "Psyche!"
I say this because I was in your exact shoes once upon a time. You were smart to ask him straight up how he identified himself. This is a case in which words ARE more important than actions. If he cannot bring himself to even consider the possibility that he's bi (i.e. capable of both emotional and physical attraction to both genders), then he's never going to really allow anything of significance to happen with you.
You might have a relationship with him but you will never be IN a relationship with him, if that makes sense. At the end of the day, and I know this might sound harsh, you're a diversion, an amusement, and a pressure valve for his same-sex inclinations but he's always going to go back to his girlfriend.
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Jun 09, 2009 9:23 PM GMT
Timberoo saidFirst I'm going to say that how he defines himself is up to him, not anyone else. It's right the GLBT community has always fought for and should respect.
That said, you should basically proceed with this however you want.
Can you have sex with him without being emotionally invested? Will you fall for him (more than you already have)? It's been my experience once sex enters the equation, the friendship will never be the same again.
In your shoes, I'd go for it.
AMEN!!!!!! |
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Jun 09, 2009 9:31 PM GMT
Timberoo saidFirst I'm going to say that how he defines himself is up to him, not anyone else. It's right the GLBT community has always fought for and should respect.
That said, you should basically proceed with this however you want.
Can you have sex with him without being emotionally invested? Will you fall for him (more than you already have)? It's been my experience once sex enters the equation, the friendship will never be the same again.
In your shoes, I'd go for it. I agree with Timber. Forget what your friend says, judge him by his actions. And his actions seem to say "take me, I'm yours." It sounds like he's given you plenty of opportunities to make your move. I'm not sure I'd be as patient. I'd either grab the bull by the horn, so to speak, or if I was afraid of being hurt I'd set up some boundaries limiting the physical contact. But heed Timber's warnings. If you're looking for a boyfriend, this guy is likely not a good fit. If you're looking for one-time fun or maybe a friend with benefits sort of thing, he might be a good candidate. But you'd be well advised to leave your emotional attachments at the bedroom door. And I agree that if you go down this road, the friendship will never be the same. Some friends can navigate that sort of thing, others can't. The choice is yours. |
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Jun 23, 2009 6:21 PM GMT
i think its the fact that humans must label everything in this world is one of the first steps toward corruption. he obviously likes you and wants to be with you as he currently sticks around. but he doesnt have to be "gay" "bi" or "straight". would it kill you so much to know that maybe out of the whole male race that he was only into you. i would say you have something special on your hands.
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Jun 23, 2009 6:41 PM GMT
Three words.
Men
Are
Pigs
That is all...
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Jun 23, 2009 6:54 PM GMT
Honesty makes the world go 'round.
I think you need to talk with him. Tell him how much it bothers you-- tell him he's wrecked you to the point of posting on a blog site for advice.
Do not have sex with him. Sometimes, people avoid confronting their own issues, and in the process, they become abusive toward other people's emotions and mental well-being. He may or may not realize what he's doing to you-- but that is irrelevant. You're falling in love with him, and it's easier to just avoid the conversation that you need to have and pretend that this is the end of the road, and that you'll live happily ever after. But you're tormenting yourself, and he's tormenting you. There are no happy endings to miserable journeys.
None of us can go through life this way. Don't fear the inevitable, and don't prolong this torture. Have the conversation. At least you'll have a chance at getting to know each other within the boundaries of an honest friendship, and you never know what that may turn into in the long run.
Stay strong ;)
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Jun 24, 2009 1:51 AM GMT
If he's not Gay or Bi...he's Down Lo  |
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Jun 24, 2009 2:16 AM GMT
GQjock saidSince you're the one being "used" in this relationship
what I would do in this case is tell this guy
WTF..... ?
If he ain't gay then what's the point of this continuing
Sounds like he finds it titillating to skirt the fence
but then denies it when the shit hits the fan
WTF... are relationships with guys to you all about whether you can be f***ed/f*** them? That's pretty messed up... |
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Jun 24, 2009 12:30 PM GMT
oh lord this sooooooo sounds like a few of my mates who are ever so very very affectionate with me, to some inappropriately so.
Guys, straight, gay, bi, green, blue or pink, all want attention, both emotional, physical and sexual, they want it from both sexes and we all go about it differently depending on who we are with, just watch your self around guys and watch guys around each other and girls (especially in platonic relationships)
guys are guys, we like the same shit, we like being sexual objects as much as we like being a mate and we like being loved and shown affection.
just let him be and don't push for anything, its probably just him being comfortable and relaxed around you which is a great thing!
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Jun 24, 2009 12:50 PM GMT
Ok the reason I went ahead and created another profile for this website was to post something very similar. So if get a chance go ahead and read that post when
I post it.
I'm going to put it this way. I've been through it and if its anything like my situation, he is attracted to you but won't admit it.
that being sad don't waste your time until he can truly give you what you need.
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Jun 24, 2009 1:20 PM GMT
GET THE FUCK OUT OF THAT RELATIONSHIP! PRONTO! IT WILL ONLT GET WORSE....TELL HIM TO BACK THE FUCK OFF A BIT...FIND A REAL GUY WHO IS GUY, OR JUST ANYONEELSE AND GET YO MUTHAFUCKIN MIND OFF OF HIM...OR YOU CAN DO WHAT I DID AND STAYED CLOSE TO HIM TILL IIT BLOOMS INTO A FUCKED, BULL SHIT RELATIONSHIP (BOYFRIEND) UNTILL HE BREAKS YOUR HEART, AND LEAVES IN 5 MILLION LITTLE PIECES. JUST GET THE FUCK OUT OF THAT AND RUN!!!!!
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Jun 24, 2009 10:24 PM GMT
general question..
Why is a straight guy not allowed to be attracted to another guy?
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Jun 24, 2009 10:34 PM GMT
Your definition of attraction being.....?
If it's sexual or romantic attraction, then:
Why not indeed? Except then they'd no longer be straight....
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Jun 24, 2009 10:47 PM GMT
meninlove said
Your definition of attraction being.....?
If it's sexual or romantic attraction, then:
Why not indeed? Except then they'd no longer be straight.... well straight is a very cut and dry word, no one is entirely straight, but, ya know, I think as gay men, we place way to much on other guys being gay or potentially gay or hinting at gay, instead of just having them as a mate. there comes a point when you've just gotta get over it, if he's your mate, that's it, you stop questioning shit, if he over steps some line, you tell him and then you get on with life, this whole second guessing if he gay or not is just stupid to the extreme. if the guy dropping to his knees desperate to blow you or keeps trying to go for a ride on you, you might need to question things, but if he's just being affectionate and maaaybe a little sexual but doesn't go much further then that, I'd be inclined to him just testing the waters, more so for himself then for you and as a mate, you do that, you erm, unsure how to put this right, but, as a mate, you gently let him work stuff out for himself, without trying to push your views or ideas onto him. definition of attraction, is more then just romantic or sexual, its huge and you and I both know if can't be simply defined and I'd hazard a guess that most attraction can contain some sexual attraction on some level.. |
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Jun 24, 2009 11:06 PM GMT
Interesting and thanks for your reply, but this,
" well straight is a very cut and dry word, no one is entirely straight, " most of our straight friends will disagree with.
I had the occasion to let a straight friend explore his curiosity once. He even went so far as to try oral exploration below the belt. About a minute into this he got up, shook himself a little and said he couldn't do it, he felt unbelievably turned off. Definitely straight. I agree with you completely that people should let their straight mates be and not come to conclusions.
As for attraction, we were pretty specific, were we not?
I'm attracted to women for reasons that have nothing to do with sex or romance.
*grins* nice to have you back! -Doug
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Jun 24, 2009 11:08 PM GMT
Well I have little expirence to draw from on this but I've managed to have and get though a few situations like yours.And really the best thing for you is to think of it as it's collage and to have fun.If the moment comes up and nothing happens then at least you know and it's best not to take it personal.I have had to tell a couple jokingly and sereiously not to be a cock tease and if nothing else that seems to get the message across one way or another.Good luck
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Jun 24, 2009 11:11 PM GMT
well? is there a resolution to this yet? it's been almost a month!
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Jun 24, 2009 11:14 PM GMT
I ended up dating "my best friend" who was "straight" but so was I... or not.
But in general, be careful. You making a move can really mess with him and the friendship.
I mean, if he reaches in for your cock don't say no, but careful what you wish for. He sure sounds like a closet case but dont be the one to bring him out. He has to do that on his own.
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Jun 24, 2009 11:35 PM GMT
No tommy no resolution yet, I'm just playing the game is it comes to me. Haven't said anything and he's acted the same way he always has.
We did go to dinner and a movie the other night though, he called it a "date" but in a joking manner. His friend (one of his oldest and closest) also asked him if he was gay via AIM message while I was there later in the night and he moved the computer away from me and continued to talk to him for nearly 10 minutes while we watched TV, so... whatever that was about I have no idea.
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Jun 29, 2009 1:05 AM GMT
Do what theIStrat said... =P
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Jun 29, 2009 1:26 AM GMT
lilTanker saidmeninlove said
Your definition of attraction being.....?
If it's sexual or romantic attraction, then:
Why not indeed? Except then they'd no longer be straight....
well straight is a very cut and dry word, no one is entirely straight, but, ya know, I think as gay men, we place way to much on other guys being gay or potentially gay or hinting at gay, instead of just having them as a mate.
there comes a point when you've just gotta get over it, if he's your mate, that's it, you stop questioning shit, if he over steps some line, you tell him and then you get on with life, this whole second guessing if he gay or not is just stupid to the extreme.
if the guy dropping to his knees desperate to blow you or keeps trying to go for a ride on you, you might need to question things, but if he's just being affectionate and maaaybe a little sexual but doesn't go much further then that, I'd be inclined to him just testing the waters, more so for himself then for you and as a mate, you do that, you erm, unsure how to put this right, but, as a mate, you gently let him work stuff out for himself, without trying to push your views or ideas onto him.
definition of attraction, is more then just romantic or sexual, its huge and you and I both know if can't be simply defined and I'd hazard a guess that most attraction can contain some sexual attraction on some level.. Best answer by far! Just be a great friend to him, minus the complications forcing a label would bring. |
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Nov 01, 2009 12:47 PM GMT
Dude anything? I'm dying to know  |
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Nov 01, 2009 1:03 PM GMT
this reminds me of back in my fraternity days, couple of guys who knew bout me would always kinda flirt, sometimes "fuck around" with me, but in the end, they were just comfortable with me and vice versa. knowing full well that i would never act on anything, sometimes friendship no matter where it comes from is best not to be looked into any further, esp if you have sexual intentions about it. just go with the flow. BUT if you do wanna push the envelope, beware of loosing this friend entirely. maybe just come out and ask him about it...ya never know...
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Nov 14, 2009 4:35 PM GMT
I had a guy working for me who was similar to JayneCobb's situation, all the signs were there, he was much much younger, and a ladies man, all the kid had to do was appear and he could go home with a girl for the night. One night I just opened the door he kept peeking into and we had great sex. several times as a matter of fact. I did have to set it in my mind to accept that it was casual so I didn't fall for this sweet guy, so in the end it worked out. If you cannot accept that it will be just casual with him as a buddy, then you better back off, cause if your emotionally needing him you'll just get hurt.
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Nov 14, 2009 4:50 PM GMT
Noone ever said a person from any sexual identity can't explore their options especially with someone they trust. With that being said most people will explore certain avenues before they realize only one thing will suffice them for the rest of there lives. Others aren't so sure and stay exploring. Others denying themselves simply pleasures that lives offers cause they are scared of the consequences of coming out. And lets face it not everything is a pretty fucking picture. Where I came out to my folks at 13 & disowned from my family. Others come out later in life and find out their family already knew & were kewl with it. Just take this as it is, and if you can respect what you have a special friendship with benefits. Cause sometimes thinking causes problems on one's end  So quit trying to figure it out. |
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Nov 14, 2009 6:54 PM GMT
Personally from my experience in younger years, GET OUT OF THE RELATIONSHIP, my best friend and part time lover broke my heart and it almost destroyed me totally. I was MADLY in love with hime and this went on for many years, we were even living together and then one day I came home and he had a female lover, they even had the audacity to invite me to the wedding. We still talk to this day and its been 20 years but honestly I still have a hurt place in my heart for him. He and his wife almost slpit up about a year ago he called me and and was so upset, I hate to say it but I had little sympathy on him at that point. I still care for him but like to keep it at a distance. I would never meet with him again, the telephone and distance have been a healer for me. Anyway just a word from my experience.
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Nov 14, 2009 7:09 PM GMT
oh jeez, are we on this topic again?
...yawn...
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Nov 14, 2009 7:11 PM GMT
I had this happen to me as well in college, he kept talking dirty to me and bragging about how big he is, etc. He was a good friend and I did have a crush on him that I never pursued. He had girlfriends but it would never last and I couldn't figure out why it only lasted a month. He was pretty torn up about it a couple of times. I guess I learned how to go on a date with a guy through him, because going out with him was just like a date.
Long story short, although he may be gay, he might not even realize it yet. Some guys just don't even realize it until they are much older. Of course it doesn't make sense to me or a lot of other gay guys that know at a young age, but bisexuality doesn't make sense to me either.....so different strokes for different folks i guess.
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Nov 14, 2009 7:23 PM GMT
I'm just going to say be careful with this because you have to think about whether the friendship is worth losing or not. I recently got into a very sticky situation with a friend who used me and by the time she came around to liking me I was so hurt that we haven't spoken in a few weeks. I'd do anything to get back to where we were but I'm distrustful of the situation. (I'm bi if no one picked that up... so don't go getting confused here.)
Just think about whether you'd rather keep him as a friend.
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Nov 14, 2009 7:30 PM GMT
From what you described this guy is so deep in the closet he is finding Christmas presents...
but he is still your friend. If it goes any further than it has and it starts to get all relationship-y, then you may get what you want or it just may scare him even further away from you and his experimentation with homosexuality.
It is college and there is nothing wrong with experimentation at any age, but it sounds like you are more emotionally invested if anything were to happen.
Also try to think about the girlfriend, since you are friends with her, if they are still together, because they have a relationship with whatever boundaries they have set up for each other, and hooking up with someone, even across gender boundaries may be crossing to line, at least in her perspective.
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Nov 14, 2009 7:35 PM GMT
If he flirts openly he can always say he's just joking because there are people watching and of course he wouldn't want to do anything. But he can't do so in private quite as much because the question of him being gay becomes way too real and possible.
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Nov 14, 2009 8:01 PM GMT
So any more dates? |
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Nov 14, 2009 9:10 PM GMT
meninlove said
Interesting and thanks for your reply, but this,
" well straight is a very cut and dry word, no one is entirely straight, " most of our straight friends will disagree with.
I had the occasion to let a straight friend explore his curiosity once. He even went so far as to try oral exploration below the belt. About a minute into this he got up, shook himself a little and said he couldn't do it, he felt unbelievably turned off. Definitely straight. I agree with you completely that people should let their straight mates be and not come to conclusions.
As for attraction, we were pretty specific, were we not?
I'm attracted to women for reasons that have nothing to do with sex or romance.
*grins* nice to have you back! -Doug I also have have attractions to women, as some of my friends are women, but it;s never had anything to do with sex or romance, and I've never had a need to try heterosexual sex either, as I already know vaginas just don't do it for me.But when I was a lumber jack one of my best mates there, I went to his wedding the lot, we had done many things together, nothing sexual. Then I quit my job as it's now time to move back to the city. His wife is about to have their first child. I go down home to the bush for the christening, and stay at their place. On the way back to their place he out of the blue picks a fight with his wife, she goes fuck you, and goes to her moms place with the child. Sometime latter, he calls he wife to check if she was coming home and her reply was:*&^^(%*$#@&*! no she was not. So he then proceeded to make the moves on me. he let me know that after I moved to the city he was loosing me, and may of been his last chance to have me  I think of all the times gone by he could of done this and never did. |
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Nov 20, 2009 3:47 AM GMT
GigoloAssassin said oh jeez, are we on this topic again?
...yawn... boooo. you know you want to know.  |
