Why are so many gay men so jaded?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 10, 2009 3:56 AM GMT
    I get part of it. The constant yearning of acceptence the demands of the physical exterior. But yet there should be a common experience of brotherhood underlining our more than comman experience of exceptence. So why are we not nicer and more civilized w/ that understanding
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    Jun 10, 2009 4:04 AM GMT
    Hillie saidI get part of it. The constant yearning of acceptence the demands of the physical exterior. But yet there should be a common experience of brotherhood underlining our more than comman experience of exceptence. So why are we not nicer and more civilized w/ that understanding

    funny pictures
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    Jun 10, 2009 4:40 AM GMT
    For the most part, I think it is pretty much in the gay gene, so to speak, for most of us. Deep down, I think most would want to be the way you describe and some of us are. However, the ones that really love drama really believe that is the way of the tribe and stir it up every chance they get until they are old enough to realize it really is too tiring and what's what the point of being an ass anyway? Some know better, but are nothing more than attention hogs. Am I jaded? Yea, probably, but I have hope the tribe will come around, especially these days when so much is on the line for us.

    BTW-WELCOME TO REAL JOCK!!
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    Jun 10, 2009 7:11 AM GMT
    Hillie saidI get part of it. The constant yearning of acceptence the demands of the physical exterior. But yet there should be a common experience of brotherhood underlining our more than comman experience of exceptence. So why are we not nicer and more civilized w/ that understanding


    I think you meant to say acceptance, rather than "exceptance."

    Just because a group of folks prefers the same-sex does not throw out any rule book of standards, and the like. It's completing wrong to be all accepting.

    There can be a strong argument made to be less accepting, rather than the anything goes mentality that leads to no positive end.

    Bad behavior is what it is coming in whatever language, from whatever color, and whatever socio-economic group. It's prejudice and stupid to be all accepting. Sound judgment is required, and if something is bad, it's bad, no matter who is doing it.

    Far too many folks use no judgment at all.
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    Jun 10, 2009 7:53 AM GMT
    ErikTaurean saidFor the most part, I think it is pretty much in the gay gene, so to speak, for most of us. Deep down, I think most would want to be the way you describe and some of us are. However, the ones that really love drama really believe that is the way of the tribe and stir it up every chance they get until they are old enough to realize it really is too tiring and what's what the point of being an ass anyway? Some know better, but are nothing more than attention hogs. Am I jaded? Yea, probably, but I have hope the tribe will come around, especially these days when so much is on the line for us.

    BTW-WELCOME TO REAL JOCK!!


    STOP BEING A JADED OLD HAG....LOL...now they are jaded...an old woman who lacks a cock....tragic. You see why be so, when we have the best gift of all ...COCK!!


    That's just how I think boys!!....Eventhough I am not like most of them.
  • Delivis

    Posts: 2332

    Jun 10, 2009 8:48 AM GMT
    chuckystud said
    Hillie saidI get part of it. The constant yearning of acceptence the demands of the physical exterior. But yet there should be a common experience of brotherhood underlining our more than comman experience of exceptence. So why are we not nicer and more civilized w/ that understanding


    I think you meant to say acceptance, rather than "exceptance."

    Just because a group of folks prefers the same-sex does not throw out any rule book of standards, and the like. It's completing wrong to be all accepting.

    There can be a strong argument made to be less accepting, rather than the anything goes mentality that leads to no positive end.

    Bad behavior is what it is coming in whatever language, from whatever color, and whatever socio-economic group. It's prejudice and stupid to be all accepting. Sound judgment is required, and if something is bad, it's bad, no matter who is doing it.

    Far too many folks use no judgment at all.


    I'll second that.
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    Jun 10, 2009 9:49 AM GMT

    Hillie saidI get part of it. The constant yearning of acceptence the demands of the physical exterior. But yet there should be a common experience of brotherhood underlining our more than comman experience of exceptence. So why are we not nicer and more civilized w/ that understanding


    What? This coming from a man who posted the following statement in his profile: "Looking for guys w/ out the pretense of gay drama!"


    stfu-absolut.png
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    Jun 10, 2009 12:10 PM GMT
    I've discovered that many 'jaded' gay men are actually just afraid. Or worn out. They've faced a lot of disappointment - from family issues to romantic entanglements - that has left them guarded beyond the norm. This seems to be an all-ages occurrence, yet also one that can pile with age.

    Perhaps saying this makes me sound negative, as I'm often accused, but I think it's perhaps realistic without cynicism, as I'm not suggesting it's a good or bad. How to address it? Therapy for starters, and self-assessment. But we can all help by moving through the world with a little more kindness and thoughtfulness.

    Except for rude drivers. Keep yelling/cursing/spitting at them. icon_twisted.gif
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    Jun 10, 2009 10:08 PM GMT

    My theory is that gay men hate themselves and project that hatred onto their peers. This hatred is initially fed by socialization at a young age that demonizes this lifestyle. From the start, when gay men enter this lifestyle, they feel like they are wrong and for most they never outthink that.

    My theory is apparent by the obsession in our community toward perfection, masculinity, and exclusion. We call it preferences, but it's really prolonged ego stroking to assure us that we are up to par even though we think we are gay/sub par.

    It’s why the most superficial aspects of the straight community are so respected and coveted in our community. It’s a misconception (smokescreen) designed to mask the fact that the weakest and least masculine straight man is more valued in the straight community than the buffest gay man. So we feed into flawed socialization and play in the same masquerade everyday that our muscles could be big enough, our circle of friends select enough, and our taste refined enough until we could be accepted, but since these superficial things have barely anything to do with integrity, respect, unity, and community: the real things acceptance are based on, we falter every time.

    And when we strip off the makeup at night like a sad drag queen, just a confused misdirected man is there who hates himself and is a jaded mess.

    The only thing that I feel can offset this outcome is reality - to live in its realm and to live a life based on self acceptance, self improvement, but also acceptance of one’s own flaws, which makes for a quilted fall when things don’t go perfect or everyone doesn’t accept you. In appreciating myself warts and all, I find it easier to do with my peers, which creates an inclusive atmosphere in my life instead of a pathetic dog show everyday that "gay men" engage in for the purpose of ousting people left and right to make themselves feel like best of show.

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    Jun 10, 2009 10:16 PM GMT
    Want to better understand why? Read this:

    400000000000000053738_s4.jpg

    If you already have, please share your thoughts.
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    Jun 10, 2009 10:20 PM GMT
    I'm not jaded, I just don't give a damn
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    Jun 10, 2009 10:23 PM GMT
    Well I dunno, I must live in some enchanted gay oasis or something, otherwise known as Wilton Manors-Fort Lauderdale, Florida. The gay friends that WE have are remarkably well-adjusted, happy, successful and contented.

    Yeah, I hear stories about these guys with issues, who mostly seem to be younger, and we figure they may be struggling with some of the things mentioned here. But is that the norm, or just the exception that draws all the attention?

    I don't mean to denigrate it, but perhaps a bit of perspective wouldn't be out of place, either. The majority of gay men I know are happy, and don't have all this drama and angst. I think those of us who are doing just fine should sometimes say so, as positive examples to those who occasionally face challenges within the gay world.

    It's not all negatives, and frankly, I wouldn't want to be something but gay for anything in the world. Anyone else feel the same way?
  • jarhead5536

    Posts: 1348

    Jun 10, 2009 10:23 PM GMT
    This is a different question than your title implied. I thought you meant about relationships. We're jaded in that department for the same reason women get so frustrated with straight men. Men are naturally pretty bad at intimacy and commitment, and although these things can be improved with effort, being gay doesn't really change that very typically male behavior.

    As far as cynicism in other areas, I think we model indifference as a self-defense mechanism. Most of us have been hurt so badly, from childhood on, that we put up walls (of utter lack of concern at best, and outright hostility at worst) in order to mask the fact that we do actually care. You can't get hurt if you don't care...
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    Jun 10, 2009 10:31 PM GMT
    GuiltyGear said
    My theory is that gay men hate themselves and project that hatred onto their peers. This hatred is initially fed by socialization at a young age that demonizes this lifestyle. From the start, when gay men enter this lifestyle, they feel like they are wrong and for most they never outthink that.

    My theory is apparent by the obsession in our community toward perfection, masculinity, and exclusion. We call it preferences, but it's really prolonged ego stroking to assure us that we are up to par even though we think we are gay/sub par.

    It’s why the most superficial aspects of the straight community are so respected and coveted in our community. It’s a misconception (smokescreen) designed to mask the fact that the weakest and least masculine straight man is more valued in the straight community than the buffest gay man. So we feed into flawed socialization and play in the same masquerade everyday that our muscles could be big enough, our circle of friends select enough, and our taste refined enough until we could be accepted, but since these superficial things have barely anything to do with integrity, respect, unity, and community: the real things acceptance are based on, we falter every time.

    And when we strip off the makeup at night like a sad drag queen, just a confused misdirected man is there who hates himself and is a jaded mess.

    The only thing that I feel can offset this outcome is reality - to live in its realm and to live a life based on self acceptance, self improvement, but also acceptance of one’s own flaws, which makes for a quilted fall when things don’t go perfect or everyone doesn’t accept you. In appreciating myself warts and all, I find it easier to do with my peers, which creates an inclusive atmosphere in my life instead of a pathetic dog show everyday that "gay men" engage in for the purpose of ousting people left and right to make themselves feel like best of show.



    Well said!

    I think it boils down to this: those who have been wronged tend to wrong others. One no longer upholds standards of decency when one has been disrespected repeatedly. It's a sad form of revenge that doesn't help. If gay people can be a brotherhood where you treat each other better than you treat outsiders, I'd consider that a sign of improvement in the collective mental health of gays.
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    Jun 10, 2009 10:33 PM GMT
    jprichva said
    jarhead5536 said Most of us have been hurt so badly, from childhood on, that we put up walls (of utter lack of concern at best, and outright hostility at worst) in order to mask the fact that we do actually care. You can't get hurt if you don't care...

    Yes. But---when you put up a facade long enough, you actually start to become that which you're pretending to be.

    I think that may be true with me. I don't care about relationships anymore, or dating either. It may be that this started as a defense, but it's become who I am.


    Some of us would give anything not to care. icon_sad.gif
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    Jun 10, 2009 11:00 PM GMT
    I don't think gay people are more jaded than straights, from my experience anyway.

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    Jun 13, 2009 10:34 PM GMT
    Tapper said
    Hillie saidI get part of it. The constant yearning of acceptence the demands of the physical exterior. But yet there should be a common experience of brotherhood underlining our more than comman experience of exceptence. So why are we not nicer and more civilized w/ that understanding


    What? This coming from a man who posted the following statement in his profile: "Looking for guys w/ out the pretense of gay drama!"


    stfu-absolut.png


    Now that's your typical gay muscled queen bitch!
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    Jun 13, 2009 10:56 PM GMT
    jprichva said
    chuckystud said It's completing wrong to be all accepting.

    You know, Chucky, for an atheist you have the temperament of a real fundamentalist.


    oh you've noticed that as well have you. well that's what false belief systems will get you everytime
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    Jun 13, 2009 10:58 PM GMT
    gay men are just broken and desperately seeking, is all
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    Jun 13, 2009 11:10 PM GMT
    Hillie saidNow that's your typical gay muscled queen bitch!


    Oh someone wants to be hated big time. icon_eek.gif
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    Jun 13, 2009 11:14 PM GMT

    Lostboy said
    Hillie saidNow that's your typical gay muscled queen bitch!


    Oh someone wants to be hated big time. icon_eek.gif


    Hey, he called you muscled and thinks you're royalty. icon_wink.gif

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    Jun 13, 2009 11:35 PM GMT
    WillFTL saidWant to better understand why? Read this:

    400000000000000053738_s4.jpg

    If you already have, please share your thoughts.
    I came to the same conclusion apart from the book ( just by observation. and experience) Here is a synopsis of it .. read the whole article for the details ..

    http://goingtheotherway.blogspot.com/2007/06/velvet-rage.htmlThe book is broken down into three stages of development for the gay man. The first stage is "Overwhelmed by Shame". Usually this stage begins in childhood. The feelings of being unloved and flawed prevent the self from developing a healthy emotional state as it would in a "normal" straight boy. Not just children -- adults can find themselves in this stage as well.
    [.....]
    The shame stage is followed by the compensation of shame. Generally, this appears to be the longest (and for me, the most fascinating) stage of development. At this point, the gay man is usually, but not always, out.
    [...]
    The final stage, "Discovering Authenticity", proves to be the ultimate goal of a gay man's life. Usually this stage comes later in life, as the gay man becomes comfortable with his sexuality and learns by trial and error that all he had been striving for is empty.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 13, 2009 11:35 PM GMT
    Because anything worth doing is worth overdoing.
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    Jun 13, 2009 11:43 PM GMT
    Some of us are good guys. Email me directly. We are not all catty bitches. Honestly. The forums just seem to bring the claws out.
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    Jun 13, 2009 11:47 PM GMT
    Maybe this is a good wake-up call for the rest of us. Why do we tear each other apart? We do it time and time again. Maybe we can argue but in a more civil manner?