Police can forcibly take DNA samples during arrests, judge rules

  • swimbikerun

    Posts: 2835

    Jun 12, 2009 6:43 AM GMT
    http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10251861-38.html
    "In the first case of its type, a federal judge in California has ruled that police can forcibly take DNA samples, including drawing blood with a needle, from Americans who have been arrested but not convicted of a crime.
    ...
    "Hollows, who was appointed by President George H.W. Bush, said the procedure was no more invasive or worrisome than fingerprinting or a photograph. "The court agrees that DNA sampling is analogous to taking fingerprints as part of the routine booking process upon arrest," he wrote, calling it "a law enforcement tool that is a technological progression from photographs and fingerprints."
    ...
    "'The invasiveness of DNA testing is minimal," Hollows wrote. "The DNA can be taken by an oral swab, and even blood tests have been held to be a minimal intrusion.' "
    ...
    "The defendant in the current case in California, Jerry Albert Pool, is accused of possessing child pornography in the form of illegal images of minors on his computer, a felony. He has no prior criminal record and has pleaded not guilty."


    Would this be Constitutional? I hope not. Obama is President but the police state is alive and well.

    How ironic. As gay men, we leave DNA samples all over the place!
  • Anto

    Posts: 2035

    Jun 12, 2009 8:00 AM GMT
    You know that means they can take a DNA sample when giving someone a ticket for speeding.

    Can they take someone's finger prints as easily or is that considered a violation of privacy or something?
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Jun 12, 2009 1:12 PM GMT
    I think it's for arrests only at this point.

    10-20 years from now, hospitals will be required to take a DNA sample from newborns and submit the DNA sample to a national database for criminology use.

    Mark my words.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 12, 2009 1:21 PM GMT
    Didn't anyone watch X Files? They already collect our DNA and store it in massive vaults in West Virginia for our alien overlords.

    In all seriousness, I'm not sure how I feel about it. I can see the argument that it is no different than fingerprints.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 12, 2009 1:36 PM GMT
    The big question is who will have access to information, how will it be used and how does the Freedom of Information Act apply to this sensitive data?

    coolarmydude jokingly state collection of DNA at birth. it truly can't be far behind.

    management of the masses, utopia, Hitler.

    DNA is not like fingerprints becuase it is more precise in the mapping of who and what we are.

    Will the court one day have a right to decide our fate based on our DNA? thumbs up or thumbs down in human purging. extreme? maybe.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 12, 2009 2:54 PM GMT
    GATTACA icon_razz.gif

    Like DClifterguy, I don't quite know how to feel about it. A part of me thinks it's a much better way to catch criminals. Another part tells me how easy it will be to misuse the information gathered through DNA sampling.

    I felt the same way about street corner surveillance cams. Appealing pros, scary cons.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 12, 2009 3:08 PM GMT
    Sedative saidGATTACA icon_razz.gif
    .


    lol

    not too sure how i feel about it either but DNA is a great thing when it comes down to finding out a whodunit....

    what else could the govt do with it tho...
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 12, 2009 3:09 PM GMT
    Plant it. It's the gov't. You can bet your life's savings it'll happen.
  • jarhead5536

    Posts: 1348

    Jun 12, 2009 3:17 PM GMT
    Like Sedative, I have mixed feelings about this. All tools are potentially weapons, depending on the intent of the person holding them...
  • Sebastian18

    Posts: 255

    Jun 12, 2009 3:28 PM GMT
    Exciting!
  • Timbales

    Posts: 13993

    Jun 12, 2009 3:29 PM GMT
    as voluntary service in the military continues to decline, they will take our DNA and clone supersoldiers, picking the the best attributes for the most obedient and tough fighters
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 12, 2009 3:46 PM GMT
    DClifterguy saidDidn't anyone watch X Files? They already collect our DNA and store it in massive vaults in West Virginia for our alien overlords.


    Goddammit, hush up! Now we'll have morons from NYC and L.A. coming here asking directions to the vault........grumble, grumble.....icon_wink.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 12, 2009 6:00 PM GMT
    "I'm sorry officer, but I pass out when my blood is drawn, and I'll likely vomit during a mouth swab. Will a semen sample do as well? It's just that my religious beliefs prohibit me from masturbating myself." icon_wink.gif
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Jun 12, 2009 6:11 PM GMT
    hombrehombre said, "coolarmydude jokingly state collection of DNA at birth. it truly can't be far behind. "


    I wasn't joking. I was actually predicting that. icon_surprised.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 12, 2009 6:12 PM GMT
    DClifterguy saidDidn't anyone watch X Files? They already collect our DNA and store it in massive vaults in West Virginia for our alien overlords.



    Is that how they pick who they're going to gang probe? What forms do I have to file to get moved to the front of the line?
  • Timbales

    Posts: 13993

    Jun 12, 2009 6:19 PM GMT
    GuerrillaSodomite said
    DClifterguy saidDidn't anyone watch X Files? They already collect our DNA and store it in massive vaults in West Virginia for our alien overlords.



    Is that how they pick who they're going to gang probe? What forms do I have to file to get moved to the front of the line?


    I have to audition you.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 12, 2009 6:21 PM GMT
    coolarmydude saidI think it's for arrests only at this point.

    10-20 years from now, hospitals will be required to take a DNA sample from newborns and submit the DNA sample to a national database for criminology use.

    Mark my words.


    Well, it does bring up some other issues because of how other samples might be obtained. Yes it's forcible in this regard, but we also abandon our DNA all over the place in our daily travels. Every time we throw away a Starbucks cup we've had our mouth on do we give away our right to privacy because we have left our DNA around for anyone to collect? How about when we spit on the sidewalk? Hair accumulated in the shower's drain at the gym?

    I'm not particularly keen on the idea myself, but it isn't going to be a matter that will be easily resolved anytime soon.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 12, 2009 6:24 PM GMT
    Listen...

    as long as Officer Taker is looking hot in his uniform, I'd be glad to give him a DNA sample icon_eek.gif

    Photobucket
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 12, 2009 6:37 PM GMT

    I'm game. icon_razz.gificon_surprised.gificon_redface.gificon_smile.gificon_wink.gif

    ...........................................hot cop Pictures, Images and Photos

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 12, 2009 6:37 PM GMT
    This is a very interesting development. With technology getting better it was only a matter of time before something like this happened. Will it be considered unconstitutional? It's hard to tell, but considering how easy it is to take a saliva swab these days my guess is it will stand. A q-tip in the mouth probably doesn't reach the level of invasiveness necessary to violate someone's rights.

    Like most people here, I see both sides of this issue. On the one hand it'll make it much easier to precisely and efficiently identify arrestees with past convictions/warrants; however, on the other hand our very personal DNA will now be collected and stored as if it were just a fingerprint on a page. I agree with Sedative- this has Gattaca written all over it! If abused, this policy has the potential to put us on a very slippery slope...
  • swimbikerun

    Posts: 2835

    Jun 12, 2009 6:52 PM GMT
    mrolemiss saidThis is a very interesting development. With technology getting better it was only a matter of time before something like this happened. Will it be considered unconstitutional? It's hard to tell, but considering how easy it is to take a saliva swab these days my guess is it will stand. A q-tip in the mouth probably doesn't reach the level of invasiveness necessary to violate someone's rights.

    Like most people here, I see both sides of this issue. On the one hand it'll make it much easier to precisely and efficiently identify arrestees with past convictions/warrants; however, on the other hand our very personal DNA will now be collected and stored as if it were just a fingerprint on a page. I agree with Sedative- this has Gattaca written all over it! If abused, this policy has the potential to put us on a very slippery slope...
    A DNA sample is far more revealing than a mere fingerprint.
    "If abused"? C'mon, you know this treasure trove of information will be mined.

    All Your DNA Are Belong To Us!
  • Anto

    Posts: 2035

    Jun 12, 2009 8:08 PM GMT
    Well I don't know if it's the same in other states but in California when you get a ticket for speeding you have been arrested.
  • swimbikerun

    Posts: 2835

    Jun 13, 2009 2:13 AM GMT
    Anto saidWell I don't know if it's the same in other states but in California when you get a ticket for speeding you have been arrested.
    So if you are accused of speeding, it is OK for the cops to take your DNA sample from you without your permission?
    That would mean anybody who drives would be forced to submit their DNA at the slightest whim of law enforcement.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 13, 2009 2:32 AM GMT
    You all are forgetting that DNA is a terrific tool for exonerating the innocent. Many wrongly-convicted persons have been freed, some after years of imprisonment, thanks to advances in the forensic use of DNA.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 13, 2009 2:45 AM GMT
    The problem is that DNA is so much more than a reliable identification. A fingerprint never said one person had a 40% greater chance of developing certain types of illnesses, etc. Additional genetic markers are being discovered all the time.